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Breastfeeding Moms Breastfeeding Moms

less than 48 hours old and I'm doing it all wrong

Posted by on Mar. 13, 2013 at 12:29 PM
  • 9 Replies

She doesn't seem to open her mouth wide enough or maybe my nipple is to big. She sometimes makes a clicking kind of sound, i don't think thats normal if she is on right. My nipples are sore, I know this is normal but it all together has me wondering if she is just not latched on right. I didn't have this problem with my son and we bf for a year. I guess i forgot just how these first few weeks can go

Also she tries to sleep sometimes for like 6 hours, should i be waking her up during these long stretches? I know it is normal for marathon feedings but what about the opposite ?

Any advice or tips or thoughts would be greatly appreciated

by on Mar. 13, 2013 at 12:29 PM
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Replies (1-9):
jean_marie1987
by Bronze Member on Mar. 13, 2013 at 1:03 PM

 I'm of the belief "let a sleeping child sleep."

 Also, even though you BF before, you may need help still... I'd go to an LC and ask for help. I plan on having an LC in the room when I first BF this new little one, because it's been a few years and I don't want to do it wrong again at the beginning.

 Other than that, all I can say is Bump for someone else to offer better advice.

Ms.Pteranodon
by Silver Member on Mar. 13, 2013 at 1:12 PM
Try teasing her with you nipple to get her to open up more. Squirt a little out, then kinda flick your nipple on her bottom lip. When she opens up more use your free hand to guide the breast into her mouth.

Also find an LC to help you! There is no shame in asking for help.

I wouldn't let her sleep through feedings until nursing is established, your milk is in, and she is gaining weight.
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maggiemom2000
by Ruby Member on Mar. 13, 2013 at 1:32 PM
1 mom liked this

The soreness and clicking indicate a bad latch:

http://kellymom.com/ages/newborn/bf-basics/latch-resources/

No matter what latch and positioning look like, the true measure is in the answers to these two questions:

  1. Is it effective?
  2. Is it comfortable?

Even if latch and positioning look perfect (and, yes, even if a lactation consultant told you they were fine), pain and/or ineffective milk transfer indicate that there is a problem somewhere, and the first suspect is ineffective latch/positioning.

If baby is transferring milk and gaining weight well, and mom is not hurting, then latch and positioning are – by definition – good, even if it’s nothing like the “textbook” latch and positioning that you’ve seen in books.

“Rules and regulations have no place in the mother-baby relationship. Each mother and baby dyad is different and what works well for one mother and baby may not work well for another mother and baby. The important thing to do is to look at the mother and baby as individuals.”– Andrea Eastman, MA, CCE, IBCLC in The Mother-Baby Dance

Following are some of my favorite resources on latch and positioning:

Biological Nurturing: Laid-Back Breastfeeding from Dr. Suzanne Colson. Breastfeeding in a semi-reclined position can be very helpful for both mom and baby.

Newborn Hands: Why are they always in the way while breastfeeding? from the San Diego Breastfeeding Center

Latching handouts by Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC

Breastfeeding: Off to the best start from the UK Department of Health
(Lovely latching pictures here, with simple directions.)

Deep Latch Technique from The Pump Station.
(Good latching pictures and directions.)

When Latching by Anne J. Barnes, has instructions with drawings
(The drawings and tips here are helpful.)

Latching videos by Dr. Jack Newman

Animation illustrating assymetrical latch technique by Victoria Nesterova
(Nice animation — text is in Russian.)

The Mother-Baby Dance: Positioning and Latch-On by Andrea Eastman, MA, CCE, IBCLC
(This is a longish article written for breastfeeding counselors that has some nice descriptions of latching and positioning, along with info on why some things tend to work better than others.)

Is baby latching on and sucking efficiently? How to tell from AskDrSears.com
(A useful list.)

L-A-T-C-H-E-S * Breastfeeding Assessment Tool (for the first 4 weeks) and Scoring Key by Marie Davis, RN, IBCLC
(A tool for professionals that could also be useful for moms who are wondering if breastfeeding is going fine and whether additional help is needed.)

Help for various nursing positions

Lactation yoga, or side-lying nursing without getting up to switch sides by Eva Lyford, @ 

Nursing Laying Down (step-by-step description with photos) from Mother-to-Mother.com

Some tips on the football & cross cradle nursing positions by Kathy Kuhn, IBCLC

Some tips on nursing while lying down by Kathy Kuhn, IBCLC

More useful information

Latching: Thoughts on pushing baby’s chin down when latching @ 

Taking baby off the breast by Marie Davis, IBCLC

PDF Baby-led Latching: An “Intuitive” Approach to Learning How to Breastfeed by Mari Douma, DO, from the Michigan Breastfeeding Network Newsletter, December 2003, Volume 1, Issue 3.

PDF When the Back of the Baby’s Head is Held to Attach the Baby to the Breast by Robyn Noble DMLT, BAppSc(MedSc), IBCLC and Anne Bovey, BspThy

Breast Compression by Jack Newman, MD. The purpose of breast compression is to continue the flow of milk to the baby once the baby no longer drinks on his own, and thus keep him drinking milk. Breast compression simulates a letdown reflex and often stimulates a natural let-down reflex to occur. The technique may be useful for poor weight gain in the baby, colic in the breastfed baby, frequent feedings and/or long feedings, sore nipples in the mother, recurrent blocked ducts and/or mastitis, encouraging the baby who falls asleep quickly to continue drinking.

maggiemom2000
by Ruby Member on Mar. 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM
1 mom liked this

Check for tongue tie:

http://www.cwgenna.com/quickhelp.html

s My Baby Tongue-tied?

Now that more mothers are breastfeeding, tongue-tie (ankyloglossia) is on the forefront of medical research again. Some tongue-tied babies breastfeed without difficulty, others cause their mother pain, don't get enough milk, or have difficulty swallowing properly and are very unhappy during and after feeding.

If you are concerned that your baby may be tongue-tied, the following may help you decide if you need more help. An IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant) can help with breastfeeding, and many different dentists and doctors can help if your baby needs treatment for tongue-tie. See http://www.lowmilksupply.org/frenotomy.shtml for a list of doctors and dentists who are particularly good at diagnosing and treating tongue-tie.

The first thing to assess is whether your baby can stick out his or her tongue. If you touch your baby's lips, he will probably open his mouth. You can then touch the front of his lower gum with your fingertip. This makes him stick the tongue out. We want to see the tongue come out flat over the lip, without dipping down or pointing down. If your baby can only stick his tongue out when his mouth is closed, that can indicate a posterior (further back) tongue-tie.


Next, we want to see if your baby can lift her tongue way up to the roof of the mouth. All the way up is perfect, half way is enough for most babies to be able to breastfeed. Again, her mouth should be wide open. Most tongue-tied babies can only lift their tongues when their mouths are mostly closed.


Obvious and Sneakier Tongue-ties:

This baby (figure 3) has an obvious tongue-tie. You can see the membrane right at the front of the tongue, and you can see how it makes it hard for him to lift his tongue up.

figure 3

The baby in figure 4 is also tongue-tied. If you run your finger along the outside of a baby's lower gum, her tongue will try to follow. If the tongue twists like this, it's a sign of tongue-tie.

figure 4

The baby in figure 5 has a sneaky (posterior) tongue-tie. You can see that it is difficult to get a finger under the tongue. If you press on the front of the little membrane under the tongue (the frenulum), a tied tongue will pull down in the center like this. This shows that the frenulum is tight and does not allow the tongue to move well. This diagnostic trick is called the Murphy Maneuver after Dr. Jim Murphy of California.

figure 5

Figure 6 shows a very sneaky tongue-tie - a posterior or submucosal one. The frenulum (membrane holding the tongue down) is hiding behind the floor of the mouth (the oral mucosa). You can see that the tongue doesn't lift very well, and that the floor of the mouth is tented out a little.

figure 6
figure 7

Notice how when the baby in figure 6 tries to lift her tongue (figure 7), nothing at all is visible except the limited ability to lift the tongue up.

Again, some babies with posterior or submucosal tongue-tie can breastfeed, others have a lot of difficulty. Moms breast and nipple shape and milk supply can make things easier or more difficult for the baby.

The best way to diagnose a posterior tongue-tie is to lift the tongue with a grooved director. Doctors who treat tongue-tie usually have one.


The final thing to do is watch your baby cry. If only the edges of the tongue curl up like in figure 9, that's a sure sign that the frenulum is tight.

figure 9

Now that you have an idea whether your baby has normal tongue movement ability or not, you can decide what kind of help may be most useful.


You can also take the Tongue-tie symptom questionare at Dr. James Ochi's site http://www.BabyTongueTie.com

A guide to latching your baby

Snuggle your baby against your body so he is tummy to tummy (front to front) and lean back comfortably. Most mothers like to hold the baby with the same side arm as they are nursing from, or with both hands. The more you lean back, the more gravity helps hold baby, and the less strain on your arms.


Babies find the breast by feel and smell. Cuddle your baby in a comfortable position so your nipple touches that cute notch right above her upper lip, and her chin snuggles against your breast.


She will then open her mouth wide.


It will look like she won't be able to get her upper lip past the nipple.

She'll tilt her head back a little bit and lunge in for a good mouthful. If her nose is blocked, snuggle her bottom close to your body and slide her a little toward your other breast.



If this doesn't work for you, try leaning even farther back, so your nipple points up in the air. Then turn your baby so he is laying on your chest, with his face aligned to the breast the same way as in the latch photos above.


If you need to shape your breast a little to define a better mouthful, you can do this with one finger above or below the nipple, or a finger above and a finger below.


If these things don't work, express milk very frequently (at least 8 times a day) to feed your baby, and get in-person help!

beachlove512
by Member on Mar. 14, 2013 at 12:08 AM

My DS had the same issues with not opening his mouth wide enough. He didn't have tongue tie or anything like that, just an itty bitty mouth. It didn't help that I was very engorged with large breasts. I ended up using a nipple shield for the first 6 weeks before I got him to latch without it. Now he's 10 months old and has been doing great since then. I would say if you don't want to use a nipple shield, to try sandwiching your breast into a "C" shape and then tickling under her chin with your finger for her to open up wide (an LC taught me that). Try nursing in a side lying position or lay her across your lap so your breast hangs over her mouth. Hopefully that makes it easier.

As for baby sleeping for 6 hours without feeding, I would wake her after a few hours to feed her. Your milk supply is just getting established and newborns need to nurse frequently. I sometimes had to wake DS to nurse. I felt bad but I knew he needed to eat. Congrats on the little one!

butterflycircle
by on Mar. 15, 2013 at 9:13 PM
Thank you so much
Quoting maggiemom2000:

The soreness and clicking indicate a bad latch:

http://kellymom.com/ages/newborn/bf-basics/latch-resources/

No matter what latch and positioning look like, the true measure is in the answers to these two questions:

  1. Is it effective?
  2. Is it comfortable?

Even if latch and positioning look perfect (and, yes, even if a lactation consultant told you they were fine), pain and/or ineffective milk transfer indicate that there is a problem somewhere, and the first suspect is ineffective latch/positioning.

If baby is transferring milk and gaining weight well, and mom is not hurting, then latch and positioning are – by definition – good, even if it’s nothing like the “textbook” latch and positioning that you’ve seen in books.

“Rules and regulations have no place in the mother-baby relationship. Each mother and baby dyad is different and what works well for one mother and baby may not work well for another mother and baby. The important thing to do is to look at the mother and baby as individuals.”– Andrea Eastman, MA, CCE, IBCLC in The Mother-Baby Dance

Following are some of my favorite resources on latch and positioning:

Biological Nurturing: Laid-Back Breastfeeding from Dr. Suzanne Colson. Breastfeeding in a semi-reclined position can be very helpful for both mom and baby.

Newborn Hands: Why are they always in the way while breastfeeding? from the San Diego Breastfeeding Center

Latching handouts by Diane Wiessinger, MS, IBCLC

Breastfeeding: Off to the best start from the UK Department of Health
(Lovely latching pictures here, with simple directions.)

Deep Latch Technique from The Pump Station.
(Good latching pictures and directions.)

When Latching by Anne J. Barnes, has instructions with drawings
(The drawings and tips here are helpful.)

Latching videos by Dr. Jack Newman

Animation illustrating assymetrical latch technique by Victoria Nesterova
(Nice animation — text is in Russian.)

The Mother-Baby Dance: Positioning and Latch-On by Andrea Eastman, MA, CCE, IBCLC
(This is a longish article written for breastfeeding counselors that has some nice descriptions of latching and positioning, along with info on why some things tend to work better than others.)

Is baby latching on and sucking efficiently? How to tell from AskDrSears.com
(A useful list.)

L-A-T-C-H-E-S * Breastfeeding Assessment Tool (for the first 4 weeks) and Scoring Key by Marie Davis, RN, IBCLC
(A tool for professionals that could also be useful for moms who are wondering if breastfeeding is going fine and whether additional help is needed.)

Help for various nursing positions

Lactation yoga, or side-lying nursing without getting up to switch sides by Eva Lyford, @ 

Nursing Laying Down (step-by-step description with photos) from Mother-to-Mother.com

Some tips on the football & cross cradle nursing positions by Kathy Kuhn, IBCLC

Some tips on nursing while lying down by Kathy Kuhn, IBCLC

More useful information

Latching: Thoughts on pushing baby’s chin down when latching @ 

Taking baby off the breast by Marie Davis, IBCLC

PDF Baby-led Latching: An “Intuitive” Approach to Learning How to Breastfeed by Mari Douma, DO, from the Michigan Breastfeeding Network Newsletter, December 2003, Volume 1, Issue 3.

PDF When the Back of the Baby’s Head is Held to Attach the Baby to the Breast by Robyn Noble DMLT, BAppSc(MedSc), IBCLC and Anne Bovey, BspThy

Breast Compression by Jack Newman, MD. The purpose of breast compression is to continue the flow of milk to the baby once the baby no longer drinks on his own, and thus keep him drinking milk. Breast compression simulates a letdown reflex and often stimulates a natural let-down reflex to occur. The technique may be useful for poor weight gain in the baby, colic in the breastfed baby, frequent feedings and/or long feedings, sore nipples in the mother, recurrent blocked ducts and/or mastitis, encouraging the baby who falls asleep quickly to continue drinking.


tabi_cat1023
by Group Mod - Tabitha on Mar. 15, 2013 at 9:33 PM
2 moms liked this
I personally do not let babies sleep more than 3-4 hours daytime til baby is back to birthweight and not at risk of jaundice
butterflycircle
by on Mar. 16, 2013 at 8:23 AM

I didn't even think about a link between bf and jaundice. At 3 days old she had her check up and since birth had lost 8oz and is looking slightly jaundice but the dr was not concerned but said to let him know if it gets worst. She only slept like that the first day home. Since then she has been up every 2-4 hours ready to bf. We are just working on her latching right now and thankfully my swellin from the milk coming in is going down some.


Quoting tabi_cat1023:

I personally do not let babies sleep more than 3-4 hours daytime til baby is back to birthweight and not at risk of jaundice



tbursac777
by on Mar. 16, 2013 at 8:52 AM

 i did this... sort of.. didn't let them sleep longer than 2-3 hrs during the day to sort of distinguise between night and day from the start.. i don't wake them at night at all, but during the day yes. keep baby in some sunlight in the window to help with jaundice.

Quoting butterflycircle:

I didn't even think about a link between bf and jaundice. At 3 days old she had her check up and since birth had lost 8oz and is looking slightly jaundice but the dr was not concerned but said to let him know if it gets worst. She only slept like that the first day home. Since then she has been up every 2-4 hours ready to bf. We are just working on her latching right now and thankfully my swellin from the milk coming in is going down some.

 

Quoting tabi_cat1023:

I personally do not let babies sleep more than 3-4 hours daytime til baby is back to birthweight and not at risk of jaundice

 

 

 

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