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Non-nutritive sucking (Help please)

Posted by on May. 11, 2013 at 11:00 PM
  • 30 Replies

I don't know if this makes any sense at all, but here it goes. A bit of a quick background. My son was born April 21st via an "unplanned" c-section. His whole birth was quite tramatic for me, and after 36 hours of labor (24 unmedicated), 4 hours of pushing, my midwife realized he was in the wrong position to com out. The OB/GYN on call came and checked it out, and they decided that he needed to come out then and there.

Right off the bat, he struggled to latch. We saw the lactation consultant on call, and she helped us with a nipple shield and practice latching. After a day he developed Jaundice and was bright yellow. He also became dehydrated, and so we supplemented with formula for a day. 

When we came home his latch continued to be a problem. He would latch correctly, but each time would drop off to just the nipple. I would detach him, and try again (over and over again.) We went to the lactation consultant and they "suspect" a postirer tounge tie. They also weighed him before and after I fed him via the breast. He only got 12 ml in 20 minutes. They said he has a "non-nutrative suck."  My supply took a HUGE hit, and I assume that it is because he is not stimulating my breasts enough to build my supply. I currently have a hospital grade pump and am pumping between 8-10 times a day to stimulate and then to supplement what he gets from the breast. I am only getting an ounce or two at most, and he is hungry after that. I let him nurse as long as he wants, but he isn't getting anything. I am taking Fenugreek, Blessed Thistle, and have some lactation cookies and mothers tea to help build my supply, but still it is not great. 

This breaks my heart, and is causing me so much stress. I don't know if it's the fact that my supply is not meeting his demand (or he is unable to suck to help build my supply.) I feel like I"m missing out on this great bonding experience because I am so frustrated. 

Does anyone have experience with a "non nutrative sucker" and anything I can do to teach him to suck? We have a referral in to go see a doctor, but it's going to be a while until we get in. I'm worried that my supply will be gone totally by then. 

Also, due to stress, I swear my breasts don't have a "let down" function (I know it has to) When I pump milk comes out of one tiny little duct in each breast. That's it. 


Sorry if this is long and makes no sense. I'm just so upset and don't know what to do. If you made it this far, thank you. 


UPDATE: they clipped it this AM!

by on May. 11, 2013 at 11:00 PM
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Replies (1-10):
SadieJames
by Sarah on May. 11, 2013 at 11:06 PM
1 mom liked this

Tongue tie.  Please please please get someone who can clip it ASAP.  If its posterior he probably has a lip tie too.  

If you can, post pics.  The ladies here can help say yay or nay : )

ceckyl
by Kyla on May. 11, 2013 at 11:09 PM
1 mom liked this
Ok wow, lots to address. Firstly, ALL babies do non nutritive sucking. It's called comfort nursing, and is good for supply and for baby. It is crucial. Secondly, ONE weight after a feeding is completely in accurate. The only way it would h e any value is if weights were done after feedings for at least 24 hours. Third. A shield will not help a latch. It hinders one if anything. They are for damaged nipples to have time to heal only. It is also not uncommon for a newborn to have an imperfect latch. Wether he has a tongue tie has yet to be determined, but we can come back to that. How were you determining be wasn't getting enough?

Look up pictures of a posterior tongue tie on Kellymom I think it is that has them, does it look familiar? If so, it needs to be clipped ASAP.

One more thing. Your pump output is completely normal, so don't worry about that.
gdiamante
by Group Mod - Gina on May. 11, 2013 at 11:14 PM
3 moms liked this

The tie needs to be clipped. Their not doing so is a medical failure.

In the meantime, up your pumping. Every two hours.

And can I be honest about bonding? The best bonds come out of the stressful early experiences. **smile**

maggiemom2000
by Ruby Member on May. 11, 2013 at 11:29 PM
1 mom liked this

Get that tongue tie clipped asap!

here's some PTT info for you (even a link with docs who can take care of it for you)

Breastfeeding a Baby with Lip and Posterior Tongue Ties

Today I have a guest post from a mom, Diane Coombs of New Foundland, Canada, who shares her story on breastfeeding a baby with lip and tongue tie.

My baby girl is nine months old today! Our breastfeeding relationship got off to a rough start because of an undiagnosed posterior tongue tie and lip tie. The pediatrician in the hospital did not diagnose her, neither did our LC nor family doctor. I was told over and over it was 'poor latch' or thrush or 'lazy feeder.' All were incorrect. 

Scarlett was gagging, coughing, extremely gassy, and she 'clicked' with each suck, my poor nipples were being crushed and so badly abraded my daughter would spit up blood after feeding. Nursing was making her so tired, she was sleeping through feeds to conserve calories, and was losing weight in a vicious cycle. 

I researched what could be causing our issues, trusting my gut that there was something more wrong besides the diagnosis given. I went to a LLL meeting and met a mom whose story matched mine. She was unable to get her son treated locally so she went to see Dr. Kotlow, a pediatric dentist in Albany, NY - the leading expert in the field of tongue and lip tie. Immediately I got in touch with Dr. Kotlow. He diagnosed the problem via pictures I sent him, and I quickly booked our flight: 1500 miles from Eastern Canada to Albany. She was treated (laser revision) and immediately, she latched PERFECTLY! 

I am not saying each baby with latch issues is tongue or lip tied, (and not every baby with a lip and/or tongue tie has trouble breastfeeding) but if you are having problems, and seem to have no answers - research it and see if tongue tie (especially POSTERIOR tongue tie) and/or lip tie is the issue. Here are some places to start:

The Hidden Causes of Feeding Problems?

Posterior Tongue Tie Information





Self Help for tongue tie and latch (photos and descriptions which may help you find tongue tie yourself, plus tips on improving latch)

Breastfeeding with an upper labial tie (lip tie)

Trouble Breastfeeding? Look in your baby's mouth. (Overcoming lip and tongue tie with an older baby)

To share with a reluctant provider: The American Academy of Pediatrics' newsletter on tongue tie and breastfeeding

I hope you don't have to jump through as many hoops as we did, and I hope you have someone closer to you who is an expert in the field. See the list of frenotomy surgeons here to find one near you: http://www.lowmilksupply.org/frenotomy.shtml

Cheers, and happy breastfeeding! 

She's about 7.5 months here. 


WARNING ON NEXT PIC: Post revision scar of the lip tie - might make some squeamish! Before's on the left, after's on the right. The whole look of her face changed! The before pics were takes two weeks before the after. 


Her posterior tongue tie - very hard to diagnose unless you know what to look for. 


Here is a video on finding a posterior tongue tie:



This is an excellent video on post-frenectomy exercises: Frenectomy Exercises with Melissa Cole of Luna Lactation
aehanrahan
by Group Mod - Amy on May. 12, 2013 at 12:14 AM
Everything they said! ^^^
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
NWMomtobe
by on May. 12, 2013 at 12:45 AM


He went over 24 hours without a wet diaper or otherwise. :/  He falls asleep at the breast everytime, so even if he is just comfort sucking, and never actually sucks is that okay? We've done everything (naked, cold wash clothes, unlatching and relatching, and he falls asleep every time.) 

Quoting ceckyl:

Ok wow, lots to address. Firstly, ALL babies do non nutritive sucking. It's called comfort nursing, and is good for supply and for baby. It is crucial. Secondly, ONE weight after a feeding is completely in accurate. The only way it would h e any value is if weights were done after feedings for at least 24 hours. Third. A shield will not help a latch. It hinders one if anything. They are for damaged nipples to have time to heal only. It is also not uncommon for a newborn to have an imperfect latch. Wether he has a tongue tie has yet to be determined, but we can come back to that. How were you determining be wasn't getting enough?

Look up pictures of a posterior tongue tie on Kellymom I think it is that has them, does it look familiar? If so, it needs to be clipped ASAP.

One more thing. Your pump output is completely normal, so don't worry about that.



NWMomtobe
by on May. 12, 2013 at 12:47 AM

Thanks Ladies! I am going to try to get some pictures of his tongue asap. We've had 4 people look at it and no one can give us a straight answer!! 

aehanrahan
by Group Mod - Amy on May. 12, 2013 at 12:52 AM
You need to find someone to clip his tongue tie NOW!!!
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
SadieJames
by Sarah on May. 12, 2013 at 12:53 AM

If they can't give you a straight answer then the answer is probably yes.  Tongue ties can be tricky devils.  

Snap a pic of his lip and under it too!

Quoting NWMomtobe:

Thanks Ladies! I am going to try to get some pictures of his tongue asap. We've had 4 people look at it and no one can give us a straight answer!! 


NWMomtobe
by on May. 12, 2013 at 1:03 AM

Will do! He is sleeping now, and so it will probaby be in the morning. 

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