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I don't understand, help the naive person

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Can someone please help me understand this whole gun debate issue. I honestly don't understand why someone would need an assault rifle or a gun that can fire 100 rounds in a minute. I understand wanting a regular gun to protect your family. I just don't understand why anyone would need such a powerful gun.

Also, for those who say they shouldn't be banned. How do you propose guns are kept out of criminals hands? How do you prevent people who should have never been allowed to buy the gun from getting them?

Please keep it civil ladies. I am honestly curious to hear others thoughts on this.

by on Jan. 17, 2013 at 9:46 PM
Replies (21-30):
TinaNicu
by Member on Jan. 18, 2013 at 8:47 AM
1 mom liked this

I think fear will spur people/government to make drastic changes in our rights and people are willing give them up to feel safer.

First of all, let's look at the constitution. We have the right to bear arms to protect the citizenry from an oppressive government. Sure, we haven't had a government try to forcefully use firepower to keep its citizens oppressed, but that doesn't mean that it can't happen. Just look at history. Look at other countries, even communist ones. The first thing that they do is take away the ability of citizens to protect themselves. The biggest mass murder/genocides in history were accomplished by these means. To assume our government will never do such a thing shows one's ignorance of world history. We are not above the evil plans of men. Examples in the last century:

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control under one of the bloodiest despots in modern history, Joseph Stalin. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1928, Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, Christians, gypsies, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were unable to defend themselves and were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda, under brutal dictator Idi Amin, established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

That places total victims who lost their lives at the hands of their own governments because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century

Please read this link if you are against assault type rifles:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323468604578245803845796068.html

Secondly, banning things only prevent law abiding citizens from access to the things banned. As other posters have pointed out, illegal items are still accessible (drugs, alcohol during the prohibition, etc) to criminals. You are going down a slippery slope banning a specific gun because they will continue until you have nothing but a revolver available to you. They already want to ban anything with more than 7 bullets in a clip.

The states with the most restrictive gun laws have higher rates of gun violence

Lastly, penalizing mentally ill is a very sticky situation. What mental disorders will they target? I bet more than you think. If you take "x" drug, you may have your rights taken away. Not everyone with "y" mental disorder will go around killing people.

I don't have a problem banning guns from violent convicted criminals. But I also know that they can still obtain guns by illegal means. I think that background checks should continue and a wait period continued as well. No matter what law we come up with, it will never prevent things like Sandy Hook from happening again, unfortunately. I think allowing people to arm themselves will be the best deterrent to frivilous gun use (not for psychopaths who plan on dying anyway). If a thief knew that I had weapons in my house, they would be less likely to try to rob me. If they did anyway, at least it would be a fair fight.

TinaNicu
by Member on Jan. 18, 2013 at 8:52 AM
1 mom liked this

 As far as I'm concerned, anyone who senslessly kills another person is mentally off his/her rocker.

Quoting lga1965:

 

Quoting vinny25:

only the people who obey the law will  give up their guns, leaving the criminals at an advantage. there is such thing as a black market and only the criminals will be left with guns. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

 What about the mentally ill? It seems the only shootings that we hear about are by the mentally ill who never should have had access to weapons. They are far more common than shootings by the everyday average criminal. How do we keep guns away from these large numbers of mentally ill shooters?


 

Anonymous
by Anonymous 2 on Jan. 18, 2013 at 8:55 AM

Most criminals steal their weapons from regular people who passed their background checks. It doesn't matter if they ban them from being sold, if someone is crazy enough to shoot people they will still find a way.

mama2beautiesnb
by on Jan. 18, 2013 at 8:59 AM
Do u not understand that criminals do not care abt laws? Banning such guns wont keep CRIMINALS from getting them.
PortiaRose
by Bronze Member on Jan. 18, 2013 at 9:02 AM
OMG. Wow. Are you a doomsday prepper, you crazy broad?

There will be no uprising... I know your leader has been telling you that but he just wants to fuck you and get money out of you.


Quoting Rach7224:

Well if our government gets them what would we do if we needed to protect our selves from our own government? We have the right to bare arms so that our government cannot over power us. Im ok with more strict guidelines and mental evals etc. The last question is something that i cannot answer. Criminalsshouldnt have guns but they find ways no matter what laws or regilations there are because...well they dont care about the law lol.
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Saphira1207
by on Jan. 18, 2013 at 9:05 AM
1 mom liked this

The NYS Office of Mental Health's Acting Commissioner Kristin M. Woodlock recently spoke about this issue.  I can't copy/paste it - my browser won't let me(sigh) - but she makes it very clear in her address that the large portion of mentally ill are harmless.   

The very few who do act violently are just that,  very few and most likely not under any care.

After working in the mental health field for the last 2 years I can attest to that.  Most of them are more interested in their own drama than they are in doing any one else any harm.  The 2 (out of thousends I've seen) that were violent had things like fetal alcohol syndrome (that needed a med adjustment to go back under control) and/or were new to the services so they hadn't gotten the meds properly adjusted yet.  After they had some counseling and the right dosages, they became harmless.  In fact, they came back and apologized for their behavior.


Quoting lga1965:

 

Quoting vinny25:

only the people who obey the law will  give up their guns, leaving the criminals at an advantage. there is such thing as a black market and only the criminals will be left with guns. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

 What about the mentally ill? It seems the only shootings that we hear about are by the mentally ill who never should have had access to weapons. They are far more common than shootings by the everyday average criminal. How do we keep guns away from these large numbers of mentally ill shooters?



Saphira1207
by on Jan. 18, 2013 at 9:13 AM

And I would also like to say that "gun control" and blaming mental illness for violence are both just cop-outs.

They keep us from having to deal with the real issue, and that is  - We live in a society that is so hyperidiviualistic that anyone wanting or needing help from the community is, essentially if not literally, told to suck it up and deal with it on their own.

However, humans were never meant to deal with life on their own.  We're social animals that need each other in order to survive and, more importantly, to maintain both our mental and physical health.  Neither of which can we do well if we're always being told to find a way on our own and to eat whatever we can find/afford regardless of its nutritional value.

lga1965
by on Jan. 18, 2013 at 9:36 AM

 That's really funny! You are telling me that MOST women have depression or anger issues while pregnant? On what do you base this? (YOUR experience...which of course means that eveyone is just like you,right? ) Something tells me you are wrong. I was never happier than when I was pregnant all three times. I don't know anyone who was angry or depressed when pregnant...it is the most wonderful experience of your life!

Anyway, yes, if someone has been on medication for any mental issues, I don't think they should be able to own a gun. And it has been shown that some of the most intelligent people tend to have more mental problems than people with average intelligence.

Quoting vinny25:

The Colorado shooting was done by man who was in college for rocket science. He was extremely smart and no one woukd have ever known he was mentally ill. I do believe if you are bi-polar or have some kind of mental problem, you probably shouldn't have guns. With thay being said, most pregnant women end up have post partum depression or anger issues while pregnant and if you get help for it, it goes straight into your file. So if later diwn the road, you decide to buy a gun, they wont let you because they see you've been treated with anti-depressants. Now I know most women wont go buy an ak-47 I'm just saying a regular handgun (that with the assumption of banning all firearms) but yes mentally disturbed men and women should probably never own a firearm.

Excuse the awful spelling, I'm on my phone and even tho its called a smart phone, it doesn't seem to act like it most times :)


Quoting lga1965:

 


Quoting vinny25:


only the people who obey the law will  give up their guns, leaving the criminals at an advantage. there is such thing as a black market and only the criminals will be left with guns. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.


 What about the mentally ill? It seems the only shootings that we hear about are by the mentally ill who never should have had access to weapons. They are far more common than shootings by the everyday average criminal. How do we keep guns away from these large numbers of mentally ill shooters?


 

vinny25
by on Jan. 18, 2013 at 10:37 AM
I said MOST women do end up with post partum depression, whether they get treated for it or recognize it idk. But yes MOST women do, this is coming from a liscensed ob/gyn. Just because you didn't have it does not mean the other girl next to you didnt.
And the whole anger part was an example. Excuse me for not making it clearer



Quoting lga1965:

 That's really funny! You are telling me that MOST women have depression or anger issues while pregnant? On what do you base this? (YOUR experience...which of course means that eveyone is just like you,right? ) Something tells me you are wrong. I was never happier than when I was pregnant all three times. I don't know anyone who was angry or depressed when pregnant...it is the most wonderful experience of your life!



Anyway, yes, if someone has been on medication for any mental issues, I don't think they should be able to own a gun. And it has been shown that some of the most intelligent people tend to have more mental problems than people with average intelligence.



Quoting vinny25:

The Colorado shooting was done by man who was in college for rocket science. He was extremely smart and no one woukd have ever known he was mentally ill. I do believe if you are bi-polar or have some kind of mental problem, you probably shouldn't have guns. With thay being said, most pregnant women end up have post partum depression or anger issues while pregnant and if you get help for it, it goes straight into your file. So if later diwn the road, you decide to buy a gun, they wont let you because they see you've been treated with anti-depressants. Now I know most women wont go buy an ak-47 I'm just saying a regular handgun (that with the assumption of banning all firearms) but yes mentally disturbed men and women should probably never own a firearm.

Excuse the awful spelling, I'm on my phone and even tho its called a smart phone, it doesn't seem to act like it most times :)




Quoting lga1965:



 




Quoting vinny25:




only the people who obey the law will  give up their guns, leaving the criminals at an advantage. there is such thing as a black market and only the criminals will be left with guns. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.




 What about the mentally ill? It seems the only shootings that we hear about are by the mentally ill who never should have had access to weapons. They are far more common than shootings by the everyday average criminal. How do we keep guns away from these large numbers of mentally ill shooters?




 



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momto3B
by Bronze Member on Jan. 18, 2013 at 10:44 AM

If other states had similarly strict gun laws it would be that much harder for NY criminals to get them.

I am sure all of the poor law abiding people who are stuck living in bad neighborhoods riddled with gun violence would be very happy to have stronger gun laws. 

Quoting cjsmom1:

You're right criminals will find  a way to get it. I know NYC has the strictest gun laws and people just go out of state to get guns.

Quoting Titana:

All I'm going to say is just because something is illegal doesn't mean no one will have it or do it. If guns are banned (some or all it doesn't matter) criminals will still have them.





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