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Oregon Baker Faces State Investigation After Refusing to Make Same-Sex Couple’s Wedding Cake

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Oregon Baker Faces State Investigation After Refusing to Make Same-Sex Couple’s Wedding Cake

Oregon Baker Faces State Investigation After Refusing to Make Cake for Same Sex Couples Wedding

(Photo: KATU)

An Oregon man may have broken the law and is facing a state investigation after refusing to bake a cake for a same-sex couple’s wedding, KATU reports.

KGW has details on the story:

It started on Jan. 17 when a mother and daughter showed up at Sweet Cakes by Melissa looking for the perfect wedding cake.

“My first question is what’s the wedding date,” said owner Aaron Klein.  “My next question is bride and groom’s name … the girl giggled a little bit and said it’s two brides.”

Klein apologized to the women and told them he and his wife do not make cakes for same-sex marriages.  Klein said the women were disgusted and walked out.

“I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God,” said Klein.  “A man should leave his mother and father and cling to his wife … that to me is the beginning of marriage.”

[...]

“I’d rather have my kids see their dad stand up for what he believes in then to see him bow down because one person complained.”

One of the women filed a complaint on January 28– also saying Klein referred to them as “abominations unto the Lord”– and now the Oregon Attorney General’s civil enforcement officers are investigating the claim.

But Klein says he never used harsh language and has no problem with homosexuals; he just doesn’t want to be a part of their marriage.

“I honestly did not mean to hurt anybody, didn’t mean to make anybody upset, [it’s] just something I believe in very strongly,” he told KATU.

When asked whether he’d be willing to lose his business over the matter, Klein said: “If I have to be to, I guess, be penalized for my beliefs, then I guess, well, that’ll be what it is.”

The case now presents a unique legal dilemma, according to reports, since Oregon law forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation, and the U.S. Constitution protects Klein’s freedom of religion.

Klein has two weeks to file his official account what happened before the attorney general’s office decides how to proceed.

KATU has more on the story, including an interview with Klein:

VIDEO HERE:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/02/baker-under-investigation-after-declining-to-make-gay-couples-wedding-cake-if-i-have-to-be-penalized-for-my-beliefs-so-be-it/

by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 10:56 AM
Replies (11-20):
Anonymous
by Anonymous on Feb. 28, 2013 at 1:33 PM
Yep, this.


Quoting Marimaru:

I honestly don't know why this needs to go so far.  I don't actually agree with the guy's stance, but if one cake shop won't do your cake, go to the next and gripe to your friends about it.  Let people know, sure, so that people who agree with you don't use the guy's shop, but I don't think it needs to be news, and I don't think the guy needs to be in legal trouble over it.


Ednarooni160
by on Feb. 28, 2013 at 1:34 PM



Quoting GaleJ:

I agree with you, I find his "stand" to be a bit much. While I support his right to believe as he wishes he is operating a business that is open to the public and so accepts that his services are available to all that wish to contract with him for such services. And as you pointed out he probably doesn't know much about other clients for which he bakes so to decide that he won't be party to a same-sex marriage, to which he objects, through his cake is just a bit much. After all he isn't being asked to stand up to the wedding or to even attend and I doubt that anyone would consider that the baker has any substantial involvement other than a commercial one.

From another standpoint I must wonder what actually happened in this "he said, she said" situation and am content to let this be decided in a court. I also will be interested in the outcome of this.  


Quoting Ednarooni160:

I'm guessing that since it's in the state law that all businesses have to service the public even in cases of sexual orientation..I'm guessing he's going to face a problem... But..he was honest..and he said he would give up his business if that's what it took..

  This is my thought..I know lots of cake bakers that do "anyone's cake".. If you own a restaurant you "usually" don't know what orientation the customer is..if you eat at a restaurant you don't know if the server, owner, or cook is gay. But sadly when you do specialty items..like wedding cakes..you do.. If it had been a birthday cake I doubt there would have been a problem.. So..one has to ask..if you provide a birthday cake for someone..why would you not provide a wedding cake..ergo lies the distinction of one's beliefs that marriage was made for a man and woman only.   Some don't care..some do.



What I was stating was basically that no one knows who's gay or not in the food world UNTIL it is voiced.. This time it was voiced.  I'm sure he could care less what cake he bakes but when confronted with say putting two same figures on a cake..he took  a stand because of his beliefs.. I'm sure this would be the same in any "bakery" that is of deep religious convictions, Christian or otherwise.. IF they hadn't of said anything..I doubt he would have thought anything about it..  I think he did her mothers wedding cake..so ergo they went back to him.  I think he will get into trouble being as it's law based..not sure how constitutional that is but..when a law passes  you either obey it and/or dispute it.  I think it's best to be "upfront" about doing or not doing cakes because of  your religious beliefs. If he had turned down a black man and a white woman that wouldn't be of a "religious" conviction and would be out and out discrimination..  Not sure how this is going to turn out..but he did say he would give up the business if he was forced to do it.  I've seen lots of cake shows (Cake Boss) comes to mind where they make cakes for gays, transgenders etc..  Who knows what they believe or don't believe but they do it..because it's a business..  I am not sure how I would handle it..  I don't believe in the life style and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman...but..that being said I totally respect anyone untl they give me a reason not to respect them.


Anonymous
by Anonymous on Feb. 28, 2013 at 1:49 PM
2 moms liked this
Freedom of religion plays into this one also. The guy should have gone quietly to another bakery though unless the guy started yelling and bullying him.


Quoting Ednarooni160:




Quoting GaleJ:

I agree with you, I find his "stand" to be a bit much. While I support his right to believe as he wishes he is operating a business that is open to the public and so accepts that his services are available to all that wish to contract with him for such services. And as you pointed out he probably doesn't know much about other clients for which he bakes so to decide that he won't be party to a same-sex marriage, to which he objects, through his cake is just a bit much. After all he isn't being asked to stand up to the wedding or to even attend and I doubt that anyone would consider that the baker has any substantial involvement other than a commercial one.

From another standpoint I must wonder what actually happened in this "he said, she said" situation and am content to let this be decided in a court. I also will be interested in the outcome of this.  



Quoting Ednarooni160:

I'm guessing that since it's in the state law that all businesses have to service the public even in cases of sexual orientation..I'm guessing he's going to face a problem... But..he was honest..and he said he would give up his business if that's what it took..

  This is my thought..I know lots of cake bakers that do "anyone's
cake".. If you own a restaurant you "usually" don't know what
orientation the customer is..if you eat at a restaurant you don't know
if the server, owner, or cook is gay. But sadly when you do specialty
items..like wedding cakes..you do.. If it had been a birthday cake I
doubt there would have been a problem.. So..one has to ask..if you
provide a birthday cake for someone..why would you not provide a wedding
cake..ergo lies the distinction of one's beliefs that marriage was made
for a man and woman only.   Some don't care..some do.




What I was stating was basically that no one knows who's gay or not in the food world UNTIL it is voiced.. This time it was voiced.  I'm sure he could care less what cake he bakes but when confronted with say putting two same figures on a cake..he took  a stand because of his beliefs.. I'm sure this would be the same in any "bakery" that is of deep religious convictions, Christian or otherwise.. IF they hadn't of said anything..I doubt he would have thought anything about it..  I think he did her mothers wedding cake..so ergo they went back to him.  I think he will get into trouble being as it's law based..not sure how constitutional that is but..when a law passes  you either obey it and/or dispute it.  I think it's best to be "upfront" about doing or not doing cakes because of  your religious beliefs. If he had turned down a black man and a white woman that wouldn't be of a "religious" conviction and would be out and out discrimination..  Not sure how this is going to turn out..but he did say he would give up the business if he was forced to do it.  I've seen lots of cake shows (Cake Boss) comes to mind where they make cakes for gays, transgenders etc..  Who knows what they believe or don't believe but they do it..because it's a business..  I am not sure how I would handle it..  I don't believe in the life style and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman...but..that being said I totally respect anyone untl they give me a reason not to respect them.




Christy1919
by Member on Feb. 28, 2013 at 3:03 PM
God didn't make marriage that's a man made idea

Quoting Josie88888:

The baker is right, God made marriage and sex for a man and a woman. I'm happy he stood up for what's right, what God wants. God Bless
Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
areid1023
by Bronze Member on Feb. 28, 2013 at 3:11 PM
2 moms liked this

he is under investigation for breaking state law. 

if he did, he should be penalized accordingly.

i dont know why this is so difficult for some to comprehend.

on my personal note, i hope Oregon's discrimination law that includes sexual orientation gets applied federally. as it stands, however, he does not face federal charges because it is not protected federally. it is protected by the state. it appears he violated a state law. 

this makes perfect sense. 

all of the victim blaming in this case is disgusting. someone reported a crime. i think they did the right thing. if this man loses his business its because of HIS actions that were found to violate state law and his choices from there on. not because a patron and victim of discrimination reported his criminal activity. 

GaleJ
by on Feb. 28, 2013 at 3:11 PM
1 mom liked this



Quoting Ednarooni160:



Quoting GaleJ:

I agree with you, I find his "stand" to be a bit much. While I support his right to believe as he wishes he is operating a business that is open to the public and so accepts that his services are available to all that wish to contract with him for such services. And as you pointed out he probably doesn't know much about other clients for which he bakes so to decide that he won't be party to a same-sex marriage, to which he objects, through his cake is just a bit much. After all he isn't being asked to stand up to the wedding or to even attend and I doubt that anyone would consider that the baker has any substantial involvement other than a commercial one.

From another standpoint I must wonder what actually happened in this "he said, she said" situation and am content to let this be decided in a court. I also will be interested in the outcome of this.  


Quoting Ednarooni160:

I'm guessing that since it's in the state law that all businesses have to service the public even in cases of sexual orientation..I'm guessing he's going to face a problem... But..he was honest..and he said he would give up his business if that's what it took..

  This is my thought..I know lots of cake bakers that do "anyone's cake".. If you own a restaurant you "usually" don't know what orientation the customer is..if you eat at a restaurant you don't know if the server, owner, or cook is gay. But sadly when you do specialty items..like wedding cakes..you do.. If it had been a birthday cake I doubt there would have been a problem.. So..one has to ask..if you provide a birthday cake for someone..why would you not provide a wedding cake..ergo lies the distinction of one's beliefs that marriage was made for a man and woman only.   Some don't care..some do.



What I was stating was basically that no one knows who's gay or not in the food world UNTIL it is voiced.. This time it was voiced.  I'm sure he could care less what cake he bakes but when confronted with say putting two same figures on a cake..he took  a stand because of his beliefs.. I'm sure this would be the same in any "bakery" that is of deep religious convictions, Christian or otherwise.. IF they hadn't of said anything..I doubt he would have thought anything about it..  I think he did her mothers wedding cake..so ergo they went back to him.  I think he will get into trouble being as it's law based..not sure how constitutional that is but..when a law passes  you either obey it and/or dispute it.  I think it's best to be "upfront" about doing or not doing cakes because of  your religious beliefs. If he had turned down a black man and a white woman that wouldn't be of a "religious" conviction and would be out and out discrimination..  Not sure how this is going to turn out..but he did say he would give up the business if he was forced to do it.  I've seen lots of cake shows (Cake Boss) comes to mind where they make cakes for gays, transgenders etc..  Who knows what they believe or don't believe but they do it..because it's a business..  I am not sure how I would handle it..  I don't believe in the life style and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman...but..that being said I totally respect anyone untl they give me a reason not to respect them.


I must disagree with you here because there was a time when those that disapproved of interracial couples did use religion as an excuse. Of course now that seems rather ridiculous and it's my personal hope that the issue of same sex marriage will undergo the same change of acceptance as people become accustomed to the idea and see that it is a positive and not a negative. 

While I am not a Christian and while I really don't want to be disapproving of any one's belief's the history of Christianity includes many issues for which Christians used the Bible to justify their particular position at different times including intolerance of others beliefs and religions, acceptance and even the defense of slavery, civil rights for women and African Americans, intolerance of and refusal to accept the gender identity and sexual preferences of others, reproductive rights and choice, etc. While our rights include the freedom of religion, that is a private right to practice a religion of your choice, it doesn't give you the right to discriminate against others who do not share your particular beliefs including within the realm of public accommodation and business.


GertieK
by Silver Member on Feb. 28, 2013 at 7:22 PM
3 moms liked this

In my view, the whole country has gone nuts and walks around with a chip on their should just BEGGING for someone to knock it off.  This is the height of ridiculous.  When my dad died, I had the choice of two funeral homes in our little town.  There are others, but i wanted one close by.  The one owned by a white couple was the one who had handled my mom's funeral.  They were, however, closed.  They are closed for two weeks every fourth of July.  So, I went to the funeral home owned by a black family.  i certainly didn't care what color they were.  I just needed someone to respectfully handle the funeral.  They turned me down...because I am white.  They were afraid of how much business they would lose.  We were good enough friends that they were honest with me.  I just went to the next town, and used the one there.  I didn't go nuts.  I didn't scream about discrimination, although it was CLEARLY so.  Life can be a bitch sometimes,  It is seldom fair.  And, that is not the kind of thing that deserved to become a legal wah-wah-wha situation.  People need to get over themselves.  If this guy has done cakes for gay couples before, without being aware of it, welll.... he didn't know about it.  This time he did.  He stuck by his beliefs. People can crab all they want about "using the Bible".  The truth is, as a CHristian, that is what I use as my guide.  I really don't care if anyone else likes, agrees, believes, understands, or whatever. There were, I am sure, plenty of other bakeries.  Just go to another one and shut the heck up.  Crab all you want to your friends and family, but good grief, keep it out of the courts.  The system is already so bogged down with stupid law suits like this one. 

littlemoments99
by Member on Feb. 28, 2013 at 9:07 PM

That's terrible. The law should not be able to control businesses like that. I know the left will say it's discrimination, but it's not. That can be a religious issue and the government has no business dealing with that. If the owner says it's because of his religious views then the government should have no say. 

I actually looked up discrimination. It's defined as this: 

Discrimination is the prejudicial or distinguishing treatment of an individual based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or category, such as their ageethnicitygender/sexnational originsexual orientationreligionskin color, or other characteristics

Look at all the categories. They are all things you can't choose except sexual orientation. Hmmm.....one of these things is not like the other. I don't think it belongs there. 

While I definately don't think anyone should be treated badly or wrongly, it's not wrong to tell someone their lifestyle is against your beliefs and have the government not be able to force you to do something you don't want to do. Same thing with abortion. You can't force people to do those. The government oversteps their boundaries way too much. They need to take a giant step back. They are getting too big. That is never what our founding fathers wanted. 

littlemoments99
by Member on Feb. 28, 2013 at 9:17 PM
1 mom liked this

Yep. There it was. Discrimination. It's not discrimination. Homosexuals are on a completely different level than the race card. You cannot choose which race you are and anyone who uses the Bible to say a thing about race is taking the Bible out of context. God says nothing about race. 

You choose to be a homosexual. That is a choice. That's God's view, not mine. If you want to argue, take it up with God. Therefore, because it's a choice you should be able to say it's against your religion or even just your morals to serve that person. Think about everything that can be discriminated against: age, race, gender, none of those you can choose. Now, on the very off chance there can be ones like pregnancy, or married status but no one even pays attention to those. My husband and I were told we could not live in an apartment complex because we were married. We didn't get that, but we tried writing to the BBB and they didn't do a thing about it and they said it wasn't discrimination. But if a homosexual couple wasn't allowed into an apartment complex for being homosexuals, it would be all over the news as a "Discrimination case" 

If someone can show that giving a homosexual couple a wedding cake goes against their religion (and I can) then they should not be forced to do something that is against their beliefs. 

Quoting GaleJ:



Quoting Ednarooni160:



Quoting GaleJ:

I agree with you, I find his "stand" to be a bit much. While I support his right to believe as he wishes he is operating a business that is open to the public and so accepts that his services are available to all that wish to contract with him for such services. And as you pointed out he probably doesn't know much about other clients for which he bakes so to decide that he won't be party to a same-sex marriage, to which he objects, through his cake is just a bit much. After all he isn't being asked to stand up to the wedding or to even attend and I doubt that anyone would consider that the baker has any substantial involvement other than a commercial one.

From another standpoint I must wonder what actually happened in this "he said, she said" situation and am content to let this be decided in a court. I also will be interested in the outcome of this.  


Quoting Ednarooni160:

I'm guessing that since it's in the state law that all businesses have to service the public even in cases of sexual orientation..I'm guessing he's going to face a problem... But..he was honest..and he said he would give up his business if that's what it took..

  This is my thought..I know lots of cake bakers that do "anyone's cake".. If you own a restaurant you "usually" don't know what orientation the customer is..if you eat at a restaurant you don't know if the server, owner, or cook is gay. But sadly when you do specialty items..like wedding cakes..you do.. If it had been a birthday cake I doubt there would have been a problem.. So..one has to ask..if you provide a birthday cake for someone..why would you not provide a wedding cake..ergo lies the distinction of one's beliefs that marriage was made for a man and woman only.   Some don't care..some do.



What I was stating was basically that no one knows who's gay or not in the food world UNTIL it is voiced.. This time it was voiced.  I'm sure he could care less what cake he bakes but when confronted with say putting two same figures on a cake..he took  a stand because of his beliefs.. I'm sure this would be the same in any "bakery" that is of deep religious convictions, Christian or otherwise.. IF they hadn't of said anything..I doubt he would have thought anything about it..  I think he did her mothers wedding cake..so ergo they went back to him.  I think he will get into trouble being as it's law based..not sure how constitutional that is but..when a law passes  you either obey it and/or dispute it.  I think it's best to be "upfront" about doing or not doing cakes because of  your religious beliefs. If he had turned down a black man and a white woman that wouldn't be of a "religious" conviction and would be out and out discrimination..  Not sure how this is going to turn out..but he did say he would give up the business if he was forced to do it.  I've seen lots of cake shows (Cake Boss) comes to mind where they make cakes for gays, transgenders etc..  Who knows what they believe or don't believe but they do it..because it's a business..  I am not sure how I would handle it..  I don't believe in the life style and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman...but..that being said I totally respect anyone untl they give me a reason not to respect them.


I must disagree with you here because there was a time when those that disapproved of interracial couples did use religion as an excuse. Of course now that seems rather ridiculous and it's my personal hope that the issue of same sex marriage will undergo the same change of acceptance as people become accustomed to the idea and see that it is a positive and not a negative. 

While I am not a Christian and while I really don't want to be disapproving of any one's belief's the history of Christianity includes many issues for which Christians used the Bible to justify their particular position at different times including intolerance of others beliefs and religions, acceptance and even the defense of slavery, civil rights for women and African Americans, intolerance of and refusal to accept the gender identity and sexual preferences of others, reproductive rights and choice, etc. While our rights include the freedom of religion, that is a private right to practice a religion of your choice, it doesn't give you the right to discriminate against others who do not share your particular beliefs including within the realm of public accommodation and business.




GaleJ
by on Feb. 28, 2013 at 11:05 PM
1 mom liked this

I am sorry but I do not accept your premise, it's basis in faith, the Bible, nor your deity. You may, of course, believe as you wish but civil law is not based on any one's religion. We craft our civil laws to reflect current thinking in light of science and the political will of the people.

The most current and accepted psychological research would also refute your premise or don't you accept that in preference to your religious beliefs?



Quoting littlemoments99:

Yep. There it was. Discrimination. It's not discrimination. Homosexuals are on a completely different level than the race card. You cannot choose which race you are and anyone who uses the Bible to say a thing about race is taking the Bible out of context. God says nothing about race. 

You choose to be a homosexual. That is a choice. That's God's view, not mine. If you want to argue, take it up with God. Therefore, because it's a choice you should be able to say it's against your religion or even just your morals to serve that person. Think about everything that can be discriminated against: age, race, gender, none of those you can choose. Now, on the very off chance there can be ones like pregnancy, or married status but no one even pays attention to those. My husband and I were told we could not live in an apartment complex because we were married. We didn't get that, but we tried writing to the BBB and they didn't do a thing about it and they said it wasn't discrimination. But if a homosexual couple wasn't allowed into an apartment complex for being homosexuals, it would be all over the news as a "Discrimination case" 

If someone can show that giving a homosexual couple a wedding cake goes against their religion (and I can) then they should not be forced to do something that is against their beliefs. 

Quoting GaleJ:



Quoting Ednarooni160:



Quoting GaleJ:

I agree with you, I find his "stand" to be a bit much. While I support his right to believe as he wishes he is operating a business that is open to the public and so accepts that his services are available to all that wish to contract with him for such services. And as you pointed out he probably doesn't know much about other clients for which he bakes so to decide that he won't be party to a same-sex marriage, to which he objects, through his cake is just a bit much. After all he isn't being asked to stand up to the wedding or to even attend and I doubt that anyone would consider that the baker has any substantial involvement other than a commercial one.

From another standpoint I must wonder what actually happened in this "he said, she said" situation and am content to let this be decided in a court. I also will be interested in the outcome of this.  


Quoting Ednarooni160:

I'm guessing that since it's in the state law that all businesses have to service the public even in cases of sexual orientation..I'm guessing he's going to face a problem... But..he was honest..and he said he would give up his business if that's what it took..

  This is my thought..I know lots of cake bakers that do "anyone's cake".. If you own a restaurant you "usually" don't know what orientation the customer is..if you eat at a restaurant you don't know if the server, owner, or cook is gay. But sadly when you do specialty items..like wedding cakes..you do.. If it had been a birthday cake I doubt there would have been a problem.. So..one has to ask..if you provide a birthday cake for someone..why would you not provide a wedding cake..ergo lies the distinction of one's beliefs that marriage was made for a man and woman only.   Some don't care..some do.



What I was stating was basically that no one knows who's gay or not in the food world UNTIL it is voiced.. This time it was voiced.  I'm sure he could care less what cake he bakes but when confronted with say putting two same figures on a cake..he took  a stand because of his beliefs.. I'm sure this would be the same in any "bakery" that is of deep religious convictions, Christian or otherwise.. IF they hadn't of said anything..I doubt he would have thought anything about it..  I think he did her mothers wedding cake..so ergo they went back to him.  I think he will get into trouble being as it's law based..not sure how constitutional that is but..when a law passes  you either obey it and/or dispute it.  I think it's best to be "upfront" about doing or not doing cakes because of  your religious beliefs. If he had turned down a black man and a white woman that wouldn't be of a "religious" conviction and would be out and out discrimination..  Not sure how this is going to turn out..but he did say he would give up the business if he was forced to do it.  I've seen lots of cake shows (Cake Boss) comes to mind where they make cakes for gays, transgenders etc..  Who knows what they believe or don't believe but they do it..because it's a business..  I am not sure how I would handle it..  I don't believe in the life style and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman...but..that being said I totally respect anyone untl they give me a reason not to respect them.


I must disagree with you here because there was a time when those that disapproved of interracial couples did use religion as an excuse. Of course now that seems rather ridiculous and it's my personal hope that the issue of same sex marriage will undergo the same change of acceptance as people become accustomed to the idea and see that it is a positive and not a negative. 

While I am not a Christian and while I really don't want to be disapproving of any one's belief's the history of Christianity includes many issues for which Christians used the Bible to justify their particular position at different times including intolerance of others beliefs and religions, acceptance and even the defense of slavery, civil rights for women and African Americans, intolerance of and refusal to accept the gender identity and sexual preferences of others, reproductive rights and choice, etc. While our rights include the freedom of religion, that is a private right to practice a religion of your choice, it doesn't give you the right to discriminate against others who do not share your particular beliefs including within the realm of public accommodation and business.






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