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Oregon Baker Faces State Investigation After Refusing to Make Same-Sex Couple’s Wedding Cake

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Oregon Baker Faces State Investigation After Refusing to Make Same-Sex Couple’s Wedding Cake

Oregon Baker Faces State Investigation After Refusing to Make Cake for Same Sex Couples Wedding

(Photo: KATU)

An Oregon man may have broken the law and is facing a state investigation after refusing to bake a cake for a same-sex couple’s wedding, KATU reports.

KGW has details on the story:

It started on Jan. 17 when a mother and daughter showed up at Sweet Cakes by Melissa looking for the perfect wedding cake.

“My first question is what’s the wedding date,” said owner Aaron Klein.  “My next question is bride and groom’s name … the girl giggled a little bit and said it’s two brides.”

Klein apologized to the women and told them he and his wife do not make cakes for same-sex marriages.  Klein said the women were disgusted and walked out.

“I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God,” said Klein.  “A man should leave his mother and father and cling to his wife … that to me is the beginning of marriage.”

[...]

“I’d rather have my kids see their dad stand up for what he believes in then to see him bow down because one person complained.”

One of the women filed a complaint on January 28– also saying Klein referred to them as “abominations unto the Lord”– and now the Oregon Attorney General’s civil enforcement officers are investigating the claim.

But Klein says he never used harsh language and has no problem with homosexuals; he just doesn’t want to be a part of their marriage.

“I honestly did not mean to hurt anybody, didn’t mean to make anybody upset, [it’s] just something I believe in very strongly,” he told KATU.

When asked whether he’d be willing to lose his business over the matter, Klein said: “If I have to be to, I guess, be penalized for my beliefs, then I guess, well, that’ll be what it is.”

The case now presents a unique legal dilemma, according to reports, since Oregon law forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation, and the U.S. Constitution protects Klein’s freedom of religion.

Klein has two weeks to file his official account what happened before the attorney general’s office decides how to proceed.

KATU has more on the story, including an interview with Klein:

VIDEO HERE:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/02/baker-under-investigation-after-declining-to-make-gay-couples-wedding-cake-if-i-have-to-be-penalized-for-my-beliefs-so-be-it/

by on Feb. 3, 2013 at 10:56 AM
Replies (41-50):
kitty8199
by Nicole on Mar. 1, 2013 at 4:31 PM
1 mom liked this
No i have a valid point and you have no response, other than to call me unintelligent.
You want them to not dictate morals, right? So that means the thing you're arguing against should be legal by that mentality.


Quoting littlemoments99:

You make yourself look unintelligent. You know what I am saying, you just don't care. 



Quoting kitty8199:

So you're saying legalize gay marriage and abortion?

You did say the government needs to not dictate morals right? Or just your morals. Can't be both ways.




Quoting littlemoments99:

Nope. I was just saying, this guy has a valid reason for refusing service because it clearly goes against his religion. He has every right to say no to giving a wedding cake to people he does not think should be able to get married. I realize it's a law in his state and maybe he will have to pay a fine or something, but I think it's ridiculous that the government thinks they can tell people what morals they can and can't have. 




Quoting kitty8199:

Not everyone worships the same God. So you can't put those beliefs into laws.


How would you feel of they stared implementing toaist, rules into laws because that's how some believe.


You gonna become vegetarian, and not eat vegetables that kill the whole plant (potato).


If you're pushing for it you have to accept it may not always be your church and never complain.


You expect others to just accept your views from your religion.






Quoting littlemoments99:

I know it's illegal but that didn't stop them did it? And...nobody cared. Big surprise. 

Also, separation of church and state does not mean what everyone seems to think it does. It means the government stays out of the church, not the other way around. Besides, that's not even in the constitution. It's not a law. So, you should stop using that as an excuse. The only thing the constitution says is that the nation shall not found a national religion. That's it! Nothing else. 

And...like I said. I can prove from God's word that homosexuality is a choice. 





Quoting kitty8199:

You don't choose sexual orientation either.



We have separation of church and state. Your religious beliefs shouldn't be pushed on others.



And it is illegal to not rent to a couple based on not being married.











Quoting littlemoments99:

Yep. There it was. Discrimination. It's not discrimination. Homosexuals are on a completely different level than the race card. You cannot choose which race you are and anyone who uses the Bible to say a thing about race is taking the Bible out of context. God says nothing about race. 

You choose to be a homosexual. That is a choice. That's God's view, not mine. If you want to argue, take it up with God. Therefore, because it's a choice you should be able to say it's against your religion or even just your morals to serve that person. Think about everything that can be discriminated against: age, race, gender, none of those you can choose. Now, on the very off chance there can be ones like pregnancy, or married status but no one even pays attention to those. My husband and I were told we could not live in an apartment complex because we were married. We didn't get that, but we tried writing to the BBB and they didn't do a thing about it and they said it wasn't discrimination. But if a homosexual couple wasn't allowed into an apartment complex for being homosexuals, it would be all over the news as a "Discrimination case" 

If someone can show that giving a homosexual couple a wedding cake goes against their religion (and I can) then they should not be forced to do something that is against their beliefs. 





Quoting GaleJ:







Quoting Ednarooni160:







Quoting GaleJ:

I agree with you, I find his "stand" to be a bit much. While I support his right to believe as he wishes he is operating a business that is open to the public and so accepts that his services are available to all that wish to contract with him for such services. And as you pointed out he probably doesn't know much about other clients for which he bakes so to decide that he won't be party to a same-sex marriage, to which he objects, through his cake is just a bit much. After all he isn't being asked to stand up to the wedding or to even attend and I doubt that anyone would consider that the baker has any substantial involvement other than a commercial one.

From another standpoint I must wonder what actually happened in this "he said, she said" situation and am content to let this be decided in a court. I also will be interested in the outcome of this.  






Quoting Ednarooni160:

I'm guessing that since it's in the state law that all businesses have to service the public even in cases of sexual orientation..I'm guessing he's going to face a problem... But..he was honest..and he said he would give up his business if that's what it took..

  This is my thought..I know lots of cake bakers that do "anyone's



cake".. If you own a restaurant you "usually" don't know what



orientation the customer is..if you eat at a restaurant you don't know



if the server, owner, or cook is gay. But sadly when you do specialty



items..like wedding cakes..you do.. If it had been a birthday cake I



doubt there would have been a problem.. So..one has to ask..if you



provide a birthday cake for someone..why would you not provide a wedding



cake..ergo lies the distinction of one's beliefs that marriage was made



for a man and woman only.   Some don't care..some do.







What I was stating was basically that no one knows who's gay or not in the food world UNTIL it is voiced.. This time it was voiced.  I'm sure he could care less what cake he bakes but when confronted with say putting two same figures on a cake..he took  a stand because of his beliefs.. I'm sure this would be the same in any "bakery" that is of deep religious convictions, Christian or otherwise.. IF they hadn't of said anything..I doubt he would have thought anything about it..  I think he did her mothers wedding cake..so ergo they went back to him.  I think he will get into trouble being as it's law based..not sure how constitutional that is but..when a law passes  you either obey it and/or dispute it.  I think it's best to be "upfront" about doing or not doing cakes because of  your religious beliefs. If he had turned down a black man and a white woman that wouldn't be of a "religious" conviction and would be out and out discrimination..  Not sure how this is going to turn out..but he did say he would give up the business if he was forced to do it.  I've seen lots of cake shows (Cake Boss) comes to mind where they make cakes for gays, transgenders etc..  Who knows what they believe or don't believe but they do it..because it's a business..  I am not sure how I would handle it..  I don't believe in the life style and I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman...but..that being said I totally respect anyone untl they give me a reason not to respect them.






I must disagree with you here because there was a time when those that disapproved of interracial couples did use religion as an excuse. Of course now that seems rather ridiculous and it's my personal hope that the issue of same sex marriage will undergo the same change of acceptance as people become accustomed to the idea and see that it is a positive and not a negative. 

While I am not a Christian and while I really don't want to be disapproving of any one's belief's the history of Christianity includes many issues for which Christians used the Bible to justify their particular position at different times including intolerance of others beliefs and religions, acceptance and even the defense of slavery, civil rights for women and African Americans, intolerance of and refusal to accept the gender identity and sexual preferences of others, reproductive rights and choice, etc. While our rights include the freedom of religion, that is a private right to practice a religion of your choice, it doesn't give you the right to discriminate against others who do not share your particular beliefs including within the realm of public accommodation and business.
























Posted on CafeMom Mobile
nova.mommy
by Bronze Member on Mar. 1, 2013 at 8:31 PM
1 mom liked this

The government is not telling him what morals he can or can't have.  It is just telling him he can not use them as the only reason to deny his service to a customer.  He could have said he was booked for the date(after he asked it).  He could have referred them to another baker.

And since when is ignoring a law a valid reason?

Just as an example of views.  If my religion/faith/god said to murder red-haired boys, your saying even though there are laws against it, my reason would be valid?

Quoting littlemoments99:

Nope. I was just saying, this guy has a valid reason for refusing service because it clearly goes against his religion. He has every right to say no to giving a wedding cake to people he does not think should be able to get married. I realize it's a law in his state and maybe he will have to pay a fine or something, but I think it's ridiculous that the government thinks they can tell people what morals they can and can't have. 

Quoting kitty8199:

Not everyone worships the same God. So you can't put those beliefs into laws.
How would you feel of they stared implementing toaist, rules into laws because that's how some believe.
You gonna become vegetarian, and not eat vegetables that kill the whole plant (potato).
If you're pushing for it you have to accept it may not always be your church and never complain.
You expect others to just accept your views from your religion.

Quoting littlemoments99:

I know it's illegal but that didn't stop them did it? And...nobody cared. Big surprise. 

Also, separation of church and state does not mean what everyone seems to think it does. It means the government stays out of the church, not the other way around. Besides, that's not even in the constitution. It's not a law. So, you should stop using that as an excuse. The only thing the constitution says is that the nation shall not found a national religion. That's it! Nothing else. 

And...like I said. I can prove from God's word that homosexuality is a choice. 

Quoting kitty8199:

You don't choose sexual orientation either.

We have separation of church and state. Your religious beliefs shouldn't be pushed on others.

And it is illegal to not rent to a couple based on not being married.
Quoting littlemoments99:

Yep. There it was. Discrimination. It's not discrimination. Homosexuals are on a completely different level than the race card. You cannot choose which race you are and anyone who uses the Bible to say a thing about race is taking the Bible out of context. God says nothing about race. 

You choose to be a homosexual. That is a choice. That's God's view, not mine. If you want to argue, take it up with God. Therefore, because it's a choice you should be able to say it's against your religion or even just your morals to serve that person. Think about everything that can be discriminated against: age, race, gender, none of those you can choose. Now, on the very off chance there can be ones like pregnancy, or married status but no one even pays attention to those. My husband and I were told we could not live in an apartment complex because we were married. We didn't get that, but we tried writing to the BBB and they didn't do a thing about it and they said it wasn't discrimination. But if a homosexual couple wasn't allowed into an apartment complex for being homosexuals, it would be all over the news as a "Discrimination case" 

If someone can show that giving a homosexual couple a wedding cake goes against their religion (and I can) then they should not be forced to do something that is against their beliefs. 


littlemoments99
by Member on Mar. 1, 2013 at 8:41 PM
1 mom liked this

That is not moral though. That's a dumb argument. You have to actually use common sense when arguing. 


Quoting nova.mommy:

The government is not telling him what morals he can or can't have.  It is just telling him he can not use them as the only reason to deny his service to a customer.  He could have said he was booked for the date(after he asked it).  He could have referred them to another baker.

And since when is ignoring a law a valid reason?

Just as an example of views.  If my religion/faith/god said to murder red-haired boys, your saying even though there are laws against it, my reason would be valid?

Quoting littlemoments99:

Nope. I was just saying, this guy has a valid reason for refusing service because it clearly goes against his religion. He has every right to say no to giving a wedding cake to people he does not think should be able to get married. I realize it's a law in his state and maybe he will have to pay a fine or something, but I think it's ridiculous that the government thinks they can tell people what morals they can and can't have. 

Quoting kitty8199:

Not everyone worships the same God. So you can't put those beliefs into laws.
How would you feel of they stared implementing toaist, rules into laws because that's how some believe.
You gonna become vegetarian, and not eat vegetables that kill the whole plant (potato).
If you're pushing for it you have to accept it may not always be your church and never complain.
You expect others to just accept your views from your religion.

Quoting littlemoments99:

I know it's illegal but that didn't stop them did it? And...nobody cared. Big surprise. 

Also, separation of church and state does not mean what everyone seems to think it does. It means the government stays out of the church, not the other way around. Besides, that's not even in the constitution. It's not a law. So, you should stop using that as an excuse. The only thing the constitution says is that the nation shall not found a national religion. That's it! Nothing else. 

And...like I said. I can prove from God's word that homosexuality is a choice. 

Quoting kitty8199:

You don't choose sexual orientation either.

We have separation of church and state. Your religious beliefs shouldn't be pushed on others.

And it is illegal to not rent to a couple based on not being married.
Quoting littlemoments99:

Yep. There it was. Discrimination. It's not discrimination. Homosexuals are on a completely different level than the race card. You cannot choose which race you are and anyone who uses the Bible to say a thing about race is taking the Bible out of context. God says nothing about race. 

You choose to be a homosexual. That is a choice. That's God's view, not mine. If you want to argue, take it up with God. Therefore, because it's a choice you should be able to say it's against your religion or even just your morals to serve that person. Think about everything that can be discriminated against: age, race, gender, none of those you can choose. Now, on the very off chance there can be ones like pregnancy, or married status but no one even pays attention to those. My husband and I were told we could not live in an apartment complex because we were married. We didn't get that, but we tried writing to the BBB and they didn't do a thing about it and they said it wasn't discrimination. But if a homosexual couple wasn't allowed into an apartment complex for being homosexuals, it would be all over the news as a "Discrimination case" 

If someone can show that giving a homosexual couple a wedding cake goes against their religion (and I can) then they should not be forced to do something that is against their beliefs. 




nova.mommy
by Bronze Member on Mar. 1, 2013 at 9:00 PM

In your views it is immoral, in mine murder is immoral, but it may not be immoral in someone elses.  

So anything that does not fit in your morals is dumb?  Aren't we free to have choose our own morals, whatever they may be?

Quoting littlemoments99:

That is not moral though. That's a dumb argument. You have to actually use common sense when arguing. 


Quoting nova.mommy:

The government is not telling him what morals he can or can't have.  It is just telling him he can not use them as the only reason to deny his service to a customer.  He could have said he was booked for the date(after he asked it).  He could have referred them to another baker.

And since when is ignoring a law a valid reason?

Just as an example of views.  If my religion/faith/god said to murder red-haired boys, your saying even though there are laws against it, my reason would be valid?

Quoting littlemoments99:

Nope. I was just saying, this guy has a valid reason for refusing service because it clearly goes against his religion. He has every right to say no to giving a wedding cake to people he does not think should be able to get married. I realize it's a law in his state and maybe he will have to pay a fine or something, but I think it's ridiculous that the government thinks they can tell people what morals they can and can't have. 

Quoting kitty8199:

Not everyone worships the same God. So you can't put those beliefs into laws.
How would you feel of they stared implementing toaist, rules into laws because that's how some believe.
You gonna become vegetarian, and not eat vegetables that kill the whole plant (potato).
If you're pushing for it you have to accept it may not always be your church and never complain.
You expect others to just accept your views from your religion.

Quoting littlemoments99:

I know it's illegal but that didn't stop them did it? And...nobody cared. Big surprise. 

Also, separation of church and state does not mean what everyone seems to think it does. It means the government stays out of the church, not the other way around. Besides, that's not even in the constitution. It's not a law. So, you should stop using that as an excuse. The only thing the constitution says is that the nation shall not found a national religion. That's it! Nothing else. 

And...like I said. I can prove from God's word that homosexuality is a choice. 

Quoting kitty8199:

You don't choose sexual orientation either.

We have separation of church and state. Your religious beliefs shouldn't be pushed on others.

And it is illegal to not rent to a couple based on not being married.
Quoting littlemoments99:

Yep. There it was. Discrimination. It's not discrimination. Homosexuals are on a completely different level than the race card. You cannot choose which race you are and anyone who uses the Bible to say a thing about race is taking the Bible out of context. God says nothing about race. 

You choose to be a homosexual. That is a choice. That's God's view, not mine. If you want to argue, take it up with God. Therefore, because it's a choice you should be able to say it's against your religion or even just your morals to serve that person. Think about everything that can be discriminated against: age, race, gender, none of those you can choose. Now, on the very off chance there can be ones like pregnancy, or married status but no one even pays attention to those. My husband and I were told we could not live in an apartment complex because we were married. We didn't get that, but we tried writing to the BBB and they didn't do a thing about it and they said it wasn't discrimination. But if a homosexual couple wasn't allowed into an apartment complex for being homosexuals, it would be all over the news as a "Discrimination case" 

If someone can show that giving a homosexual couple a wedding cake goes against their religion (and I can) then they should not be forced to do something that is against their beliefs. 





Anonymous
by Anonymous 1 on Mar. 1, 2013 at 9:20 PM
1 mom liked this
Funny, this is illegal but having African American only scholarships is totally fine. If you had an all white scholarship it is illegal. The govt allows whatever the heck fits their agenda.
littlemoments99
by Member on Mar. 1, 2013 at 9:40 PM
1 mom liked this

You bring up a very good point. Lets say there is someone who has a religion where killing is perfectly legal. Everything is subjective until you have an absolute authority on right and wrong. You have verified this because you told me you think murder is wrong. Where did you get that understanding? Who told you that? It's not wrong just because it's wrong. It's wrong because GOD says it's wrong. Without an abosolute authority there is no right and wrong because right for one person is wrong for another and vice versa. 

And I'm sure you will say not everyone believes in God. Would you be able to agree that everyone believes in good and evil? I'd say everyone who has a healthy mind understands what is good and what is evil. That has to come from somewhere. It doesn't come from nothing. It comes from God. Whether or not you want to deny that authority by name, you know it exists, and you are denying Him. He will hold you accoutable for that since good and evil is defined by Him. 

It's really a hard topic and it's very complicated. I really didn't mean religion, I guess. This man (cake baker) seems like a Christian person. A Christian person should not have a religion, they should have a relationship with God. I will say that the only way this topic would ever be ended would be with explaining why all other religions are false, I could do that, but it would take a long time. I would then have to explain to you how I know Christianity is correct. Then, explain to you how I know God exists. And I'm sure there would be other things I would have to bring up, so this topic is too big for discussion. I did try my best though. 

Quoting nova.mommy:

In your views it is immoral, in mine murder is immoral, but it may not be immoral in someone elses.  

So anything that does not fit in your morals is dumb?  Aren't we free to have choose our own morals, whatever they may be?

Quoting littlemoments99:

That is not moral though. That's a dumb argument. You have to actually use common sense when arguing. 


Quoting nova.mommy:

The government is not telling him what morals he can or can't have.  It is just telling him he can not use them as the only reason to deny his service to a customer.  He could have said he was booked for the date(after he asked it).  He could have referred them to another baker.

And since when is ignoring a law a valid reason?

Just as an example of views.  If my religion/faith/god said to murder red-haired boys, your saying even though there are laws against it, my reason would be valid?

Quoting littlemoments99:

Nope. I was just saying, this guy has a valid reason for refusing service because it clearly goes against his religion. He has every right to say no to giving a wedding cake to people he does not think should be able to get married. I realize it's a law in his state and maybe he will have to pay a fine or something, but I think it's ridiculous that the government thinks they can tell people what morals they can and can't have. 

Quoting kitty8199:

Not everyone worships the same God. So you can't put those beliefs into laws.
How would you feel of they stared implementing toaist, rules into laws because that's how some believe.
You gonna become vegetarian, and not eat vegetables that kill the whole plant (potato).
If you're pushing for it you have to accept it may not always be your church and never complain.
You expect others to just accept your views from your religion.

Quoting littlemoments99:

I know it's illegal but that didn't stop them did it? And...nobody cared. Big surprise. 

Also, separation of church and state does not mean what everyone seems to think it does. It means the government stays out of the church, not the other way around. Besides, that's not even in the constitution. It's not a law. So, you should stop using that as an excuse. The only thing the constitution says is that the nation shall not found a national religion. That's it! Nothing else. 

And...like I said. I can prove from God's word that homosexuality is a choice. 

Quoting kitty8199:

You don't choose sexual orientation either.

We have separation of church and state. Your religious beliefs shouldn't be pushed on others.

And it is illegal to not rent to a couple based on not being married.
Quoting littlemoments99:

Yep. There it was. Discrimination. It's not discrimination. Homosexuals are on a completely different level than the race card. You cannot choose which race you are and anyone who uses the Bible to say a thing about race is taking the Bible out of context. God says nothing about race. 

You choose to be a homosexual. That is a choice. That's God's view, not mine. If you want to argue, take it up with God. Therefore, because it's a choice you should be able to say it's against your religion or even just your morals to serve that person. Think about everything that can be discriminated against: age, race, gender, none of those you can choose. Now, on the very off chance there can be ones like pregnancy, or married status but no one even pays attention to those. My husband and I were told we could not live in an apartment complex because we were married. We didn't get that, but we tried writing to the BBB and they didn't do a thing about it and they said it wasn't discrimination. But if a homosexual couple wasn't allowed into an apartment complex for being homosexuals, it would be all over the news as a "Discrimination case" 

If someone can show that giving a homosexual couple a wedding cake goes against their religion (and I can) then they should not be forced to do something that is against their beliefs. 







zoegirlsmom
by New Member on Mar. 2, 2013 at 8:04 AM

I do not agree with his sentiment, but he should have a right to refuse service.

Eve-marie
by on Mar. 2, 2013 at 10:46 AM
2 moms liked this


The bible also advises that you 'shun the very appearance of evil'. He views the union to be evil and he wants nothing to do with it. As is his right. I think people are too quick to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Quoting cjsmom1:

I don't know how I feel about this. I commend him for standing up for his beliefs, but it is discrimination. I don't think making them a cake would have been horrible to do.
Plus the Bible also says "thou shall not judge" and I believe people are being judged due to their sexual orientation.



nova.mommy
by Bronze Member on Mar. 2, 2013 at 12:13 PM

So Hinduism, Budism' Jewdism, etc. are all false?  In other reglions Christianity is/may be false.  Who is to say what religion is right?  

My only point is what may be immoral or evil in one faith may not be in another.  What I believe is irrevelent when it comes to living in a country that has not state religion(not to me or who believe the same). We are all(you, me, them) able to follow/believe whatever faith/religion we choose.  No one faith is false in the eyes of the law.

The debate here is a tough one.  Religious freedom vs laws passed by a majority.  Did the law have this specific case in mind?  Probably not.  But it is there no less.

Quoting littlemoments99:

You bring up a very good point. Lets say there is someone who has a religion where killing is perfectly legal. Everything is subjective until you have an absolute authority on right and wrong. You have verified this because you told me you think murder is wrong. Where did you get that understanding? Who told you that? It's not wrong just because it's wrong. It's wrong because GOD says it's wrong. Without an abosolute authority there is no right and wrong because right for one person is wrong for another and vice versa. 

And I'm sure you will say not everyone believes in God. Would you be able to agree that everyone believes in good and evil? I'd say everyone who has a healthy mind understands what is good and what is evil. That has to come from somewhere. It doesn't come from nothing. It comes from God. Whether or not you want to deny that authority by name, you know it exists, and you are denying Him. He will hold you accoutable for that since good and evil is defined by Him. 

It's really a hard topic and it's very complicated. I really didn't mean religion, I guess. This man (cake baker) seems like a Christian person. A Christian person should not have a religion, they should have a relationship with God. I will say that the only way this topic would ever be ended would be with explaining why all other religions are false, I could do that, but it would take a long time. I would then have to explain to you how I know Christianity is correct. Then, explain to you how I know God exists. And I'm sure there would be other things I would have to bring up, so this topic is too big for discussion. I did try my best though. 

Quoting nova.mommy:

In your views it is immoral, in mine murder is immoral, but it may not be immoral in someone elses.  

So anything that does not fit in your morals is dumb?  Aren't we free to have choose our own morals, whatever they may be?

Quoting littlemoments99:

That is not moral though. That's a dumb argument. You have to actually use common sense when arguing. 


Quoting nova.mommy:

The government is not telling him what morals he can or can't have.  It is just telling him he can not use them as the only reason to deny his service to a customer.  He could have said he was booked for the date(after he asked it).  He could have referred them to another baker.

And since when is ignoring a law a valid reason?

Just as an example of views.  If my religion/faith/god said to murder red-haired boys, your saying even though there are laws against it, my reason would be valid?

Quoting littlemoments99:

Nope. I was just saying, this guy has a valid reason for refusing service because it clearly goes against his religion. He has every right to say no to giving a wedding cake to people he does not think should be able to get married. I realize it's a law in his state and maybe he will have to pay a fine or something, but I think it's ridiculous that the government thinks they can tell people what morals they can and can't have. 

Quoting kitty8199:

Not everyone worships the same God. So you can't put those beliefs into laws.
How would you feel of they stared implementing toaist, rules into laws because that's how some believe.
You gonna become vegetarian, and not eat vegetables that kill the whole plant (potato).
If you're pushing for it you have to accept it may not always be your church and never complain.
You expect others to just accept your views from your religion.

Quoting littlemoments99:

I know it's illegal but that didn't stop them did it? And...nobody cared. Big surprise. 

Also, separation of church and state does not mean what everyone seems to think it does. It means the government stays out of the church, not the other way around. Besides, that's not even in the constitution. It's not a law. So, you should stop using that as an excuse. The only thing the constitution says is that the nation shall not found a national religion. That's it! Nothing else. 

And...like I said. I can prove from God's word that homosexuality is a choice. 

Quoting kitty8199:

You don't choose sexual orientation either.

We have separation of church and state. Your religious beliefs shouldn't be pushed on others.

And it is illegal to not rent to a couple based on not being married.
Quoting littlemoments99:

Yep. There it was. Discrimination. It's not discrimination. Homosexuals are on a completely different level than the race card. You cannot choose which race you are and anyone who uses the Bible to say a thing about race is taking the Bible out of context. God says nothing about race. 

You choose to be a homosexual. That is a choice. That's God's view, not mine. If you want to argue, take it up with God. Therefore, because it's a choice you should be able to say it's against your religion or even just your morals to serve that person. Think about everything that can be discriminated against: age, race, gender, none of those you can choose. Now, on the very off chance there can be ones like pregnancy, or married status but no one even pays attention to those. My husband and I were told we could not live in an apartment complex because we were married. We didn't get that, but we tried writing to the BBB and they didn't do a thing about it and they said it wasn't discrimination. But if a homosexual couple wasn't allowed into an apartment complex for being homosexuals, it would be all over the news as a "Discrimination case" 

If someone can show that giving a homosexual couple a wedding cake goes against their religion (and I can) then they should not be forced to do something that is against their beliefs. 








nova.mommy
by Bronze Member on Mar. 2, 2013 at 12:13 PM
2 moms liked this

A happy ending for the discriminated couple

It seems that the story of what happened to the unnamed couple gained the attention of Food TV star chef Duff Goldman. He's going to make the couple's wedding cake free of charge to make up for what 'Sweet Cakes by Melissa' did to them. The television star said the following:

"For a cake decorator to really feel like he really needed to take a stand...just makes absolutely no sense. It's petty. It's small... This man was wrapped up in his hatred in the cloak of religion."


Way to go Duff!


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