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Comparison & Discussion of the Quran & Bible

Posted by on Feb. 27, 2009 at 2:24 PM
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Firstly, I want to have a very accurate discussion and if necessary will include as many facts as posible for myself and expect the same from others in their replies.

***Islam was started by Mohammed in the 600's. NOT before Christ but after Christ's crucifiction.

Mohammed was raised by an uncle who was thought to be a merchant so he traveled between Egypt & the other midEast lands and heard many stories from many people's from many lands. He made an attempt to bring his people together, to worship one god. He had visions from an angel who told him what to write. Read here:

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/nabi.html

This quote from the Quran troubles me the MOST of anything!

Surah 4, Ayat  171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three". Cease! (it is) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that he should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

Understanding where Islam falls in with the history of the church here's a really good timeline, history, of the church. Islam doesn't occur until the later days of the church, during the Midiaeval Time frame 590-late 1000's AD. This timeframe in history sems to be when Christianity is being attacked more because it's spreading so fast & far from the seat of Rome.

Check out this web:

http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/About.htm

Now that everyone has had equal opportunity to study the facts now we can discuss.........we will do this objectively and in a loving manner, not being judgemental but just stick to the facts & the scripture. Below I've got links to Quran & Bible..........

Here's a web to tanslations of the Quran:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/

Here's a Bible link, (pick your fav tanslation):

http://www.biblegateway.com/

 

by on Feb. 27, 2009 at 2:24 PM
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Gr8ful_4_Mercy
by Member on Feb. 27, 2009 at 6:07 PM

Your area in red above is exactly why I do not believe the Qu'ran.  There is another passage where another writer wrote of Jesus' return at the end.  My defense of the Qu'ran had nothing to do with its scriptural teaching nor its accuracy.  Nor was  I suggesting it was inspired by the Word of God as there are too many contradictions and self-oppositions written in it.  My ENTIRE point was only to point out that that which seems intended for peace was twisted by men who wanted power in much the same way that many have twisted our beloved scriptures, Holy Bible Word of God to fit their own agendas and gain power or pre-emminence themselves.  Case and point....the Catholic church for many years twisted and added to scriptures for its own financial benefit and political power.  Thereby resulting by many martyrs shed blood who promoted the scripture in layman's terms.  The fact that many Mullahs have done the same and created the radical sect of Islam is no different.

Sorry if my prev. post reply  was out of line, or seemed combative...that was never my intent.

Our circumstances should not affect our worship; but our worship should affect our circumstances

Acts 16:25-26....And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God:  and the prisoners heard them.  And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken:  and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

wilswife
by Member on Feb. 27, 2009 at 6:19 PM

wow, now im really curious,  heatkab,

1)  how did the quran answer your original question of the trinity and divinity? 

2) do you think muslims have different groups or sects,  (im not sure how to phrase it), like christians have "methodists, baptists, charismatic, prodistant, catholic etc."  what is the basic different between the different groups (if there is different groups)? is there a group w/in the group that others look down on?

wilswife
by Member on Feb. 27, 2009 at 6:25 PM


 

Quote:

Case and point....the Catholic church for many years twisted and added to scriptures for its own financial benefit and political power. 


now i got another question lol,   i thaugth when the dead sea scrolls were found it put to rest that the words from then til now have been perfectly perserved?

 

Gr8ful_4_Mercy
by Member on Feb. 27, 2009 at 6:32 PM


Quoting wilswife:


 

Quote:

Case and point....the Catholic church for many years twisted and added to scriptures for its own financial benefit and political power. 


now i got another question lol,   i thaugth when the dead sea scrolls were found it put to rest that the words from then til now have been perfectly perserved?


Yes, true, however if you ever read a Catholic Bible you will find a number of books that have been added to and changed from the original scripture.  The dead sea scrolls agree with the 1599 Geneva, what was tanslated by Tyndale himself-he completed the whole NT and most of the Old not all, and the 1611KJV.  The alterations made in the Latin (read: Alexandrian) scriptures differ from the more original Dead Sea Scrolls and the Antiochine scripts-the basis of our Bible today.

Our circumstances should not affect our worship; but our worship should affect our circumstances

Acts 16:25-26....And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God:  and the prisoners heard them.  And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken:  and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

Gr8ful_4_Mercy
by Member on Feb. 27, 2009 at 6:34 PM

To understand the perversion of the Catholic church to the Apostles  Creed, read "Creeds of Christendom" by Philip Schaff.  It shows historically the slow change and how many years were involved to enact the full deed.  It all started with just a slight rewording here and there until there was nothing that resembled the original

desertrat4evr
by Group Owner on Feb. 28, 2009 at 10:52 PM

I have posted one tyndale/wycliff website of parts of the history of the English version of the Bible in the 'Bible history' post that can show some of this distortion of the bible over the centuries and then how it was corrected from the Greek. Check out this post, anyone interested.........

Quoting Gr8ful_4_Mercy:

To understand the perversion of the Catholic church to the Apostles  Creed, read "Creeds of Christendom" by Philip Schaff.  It shows historically the slow change and how many years were involved to enact the full deed.  It all started with just a slight rewording here and there until there was nothing that resembled the original


Gr8ful_4_Mercy
by Member on Mar. 1, 2009 at 2:55 AM

I do hope I was not misunderstood... I believe The Holy Bible to be infallible not a distorted view.  God will always have His Word until He comes again.  I just wante to say this.. I was in no way discounting the Word Of God that we read today in what we call The Holy Bible.

Quoting desertrat4evr:

I have posted one tyndale/wycliff website of parts of the history of the English version of the Bible in the 'Bible history' post that can show some of this distortion of the bible over the centuries and then how it was corrected from the Greek. Check out this post, anyone interested.........

Quoting Gr8ful_4_Mercy:

To understand the perversion of the Catholic church to the Apostles  Creed, read "Creeds of Christendom" by Philip Schaff.  It shows historically the slow change and how many years were involved to enact the full deed.  It all started with just a slight rewording here and there until there was nothing that resembled the original



desertrat4evr
by Group Owner on Mar. 2, 2009 at 12:49 AM

If you go to the new post about Bible History you will find a link there that shows where the Bible was finally translated from the original Greek and it was found to be way off track. The Dead Sea Scrolls did confirm the translations we had at that time were very accurate. With all the translations on the internet now I don't see why or how anyone could say that the KJV or NKJV are bad translations. Some tanslations seem 'watered down' to me and others like 'the Message' can make the scriptures come to life using it's modern language almost like the amplied bible does.

Quoting wilswife:


 

Quote:

Case and point....the Catholic church for many years twisted and added to scriptures for its own financial benefit and political power. 


now i got another question lol,   i thaugth when the dead sea scrolls were found it put to rest that the words from then til now have been perfectly perserved?

 


wilswife
by Member on Mar. 2, 2009 at 10:04 AM

ok, am i imagining this:  it seems like followers of the Quran have no absolutes, they can pick out what ever scriptures they want and act anyway they want.

christians do this aslo, however our conscience will bother us, the Holy Spirit will 'convict us" and if we continue to disobey the word of God, we eventually seperate from God where we cannot hear Him, sence Him, have relationship w/ Him.

 

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. -meaning when im fallowing Christ, i naturaly do what is right, its not a struggle, when i havnt prayed or read my Bible i will start struggling to do right.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Gal 5:19-23 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions(disunion, division) heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Jas 1:19-23 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: 20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

there is a remnant that live by the Word of God no matter where in the world they live,  but it seems like African muslims (genecide) have this way,  Agfhani (sp?) live this way (hubby said a man he met over there said woman are for children, men are for plesure) Iraqi (bombing soldiers and their own brothers, children, innocent) am i totally missing somthign here? it just seems that the quran is twisted or fallowed differently depending on where you live.

 

Gr8ful_4_Mercy
by Member on Mar. 2, 2009 at 10:28 AM


Quoting desertrat4evr:

If you go to the new post about Bible History you will find a link there that shows where the Bible was finally translated from the original Greek and it was found to be way off track. The Antioch Greek Text was accurate it was the Alexandrian Greek Text that had modifications made to it to accomodate certain pagan elements.The Dead Sea Scrolls did confirm the translations we had at that time were very accurate. With all the translations on the internet now I don't see why or how anyone could say that the KJV or NKJV are bad translations. Some tanslations seem 'watered down' to me and others like 'the Message' can make the scriptures come to life using it's modern language almost like the amplied bible does.

Quoting wilswife:


 

Quote:

Case and point....the Catholic church for many years twisted and added to scriptures for its own financial benefit and political power. 


now i got another question lol,   i thaugth when the dead sea scrolls were found it put to rest that the words from then til now have been perfectly perserved?




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