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Elementary School Kids Elementary School Kids

It seems to be that time of year again when the term bullying is thrown out for every little disagreement.  The term has generated a life of it's own and for many has expanded to include someone not liking their child or just not wanting to play with them.  The definition guiding most school settings includes REPEATED behaviors aimed at a student, not just one incident.  What is your definition?

by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 7:47 AM
Replies (11-20):
VeronicaTex
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 12:21 PM
1 mom liked this

Thank you for your reply.

When I was in grade school that was from 1960-1966.

Even though the stuttering stopped in 7th grade because I then attended a high school, I still did not learn coping skills.  There was not such a necessity at that point because there wasn't much to pick on at that point..:)  

I did not really talk too much until I was 19.  That is when I joined the Army.

As far as real life coping skills, I didn't really find a need to cope and learn to be assertive, until I got on this very in site 2006.  :) 

This generation is entirely different from mine.

In my honest opinion, kids are very capable of learning coping skills, provided they are handled with finesse and wise guidance on the part of the parents and the school, which now must add this to the many responsibilities they have.

But the truth of the matter is, there are many, many kids out there whose personalities are altered permanently by antagonizing , be it picking or bullying.

I am going to beg to differ on the kids who can not function adequately in a Second language yet, and particularly on children with disabilities.

What is unique about them (the kids with disabilities) is more often than not, they have "innocent" personalities that really do not understand the picking to begin with, besides many of them being non-verbal.  I know this very well because my daughter is a Down Syndrome child being severely to profoundly retarded and non-verbal  .

I feel what you are saying applies mainly to the "typical" child, who has the capacity to understand the reasons behind the bullying and coping skills to counteract this despicable behavior.

I totally understand from having a child with Special Needs why many parents would pull their children out and seek a more accepting and pleasant atmosphere for them.  

From having been a teacher, I also understand and support Mothers whose children are not only tormented by fellow school children, but by teachers as well.

Why even expose a sweet soul to begin with?

Veronica

Qoting maxswolfsuit:


Quoting VeronicaTex:

Two thoughts I'd like to share here at this point:

1.  When I was growing up I stuttered severely, and was made fun of by many people.  There was one girl in particular that would pick on me and it would get physical.  Once this girl pinned me down and pulled my dress up in front of many kids on the playground. All I could do was fight back in my defense.   I did tell my Mother about the incident and when she reported it to the principal, he suggested I was lying.  

I ask these questions:  What could I have done?  How could I have made an impact, being a stutterer?  

Even the adult who was supposed to be protecting me couldn't have been relied on. to intervene.  

He had bias toward the girl picking on me.  In addition to that, my brothers went through some incidents that by today's standards were pretty horrific in terms of humiliation, by both teachers and principal.


2.  This is from when I taught in the bilingual classroom in an At Risk school where the greatest percentage of the 500 children were Afro-American:   I had to be present in a conference where one of my boys from Mexico, shy and not yet knowing English,  had his backpack flung across the cafeteria floor by an American.

This incident had more details to it:  enough to get the American reported for what he did, and how the boy from Mexico tried to defend himself.

Being this Mexican boy's teacher,  I translated for the Mother of the boy from Mexico, in the presence of the vice-principal exactly what happened.  The Mother herself was a very humble woman, and for me it was embarrassing  having to share with her that an American did this to her son, the American, knowing full well he had the advantage over my student not being able to speak English


When I was a child I didn't have the coping mechanisms to be assertive and defending. (not defensive). , much less the ability to put my thoughts into fluid speech.

Isn't that the bigger issue than what other kids did? Just because you didn't have the coping skills, didn't mean you couldn't have learned them. I'm not saying nothing should be done when kids pick on each other. I'm saying we've totally lost focus in teaching kids the coping skills they will need as adults. Many students with various disabilities and non English speaking students have the skills they need to combat other students insensitivity. We need to focus on making sure more more kids have those tools. 

It was the same with my students who did not know English, but they knew they were being antagonized and eventually bullied.  There was no way they could have handled that situation on their own.  

Veronica




maxswolfsuit
by Max on Nov. 21, 2012 at 12:46 PM

I teach special needs students in an inclusion setting. So I'm saying from experience that all different kinds of kids can and do learn coping skills when they have the right environment and support. I've taught non English speaking and non verbal students who all functioned well and get along with their peers. No on gets bullied or picked in my class. Outside of my classroom they treat each other with respect because they've learned to truly respect each other. 

Your last question is very interesting to me. If it were possible to never expose children to mean behavior I would wholeheartedly support that. But how would you suggest we do that? You gave an example of bullying from your classroom. If you couldn't prevent it, how do you expect others to?  The truth is that every one needs to learn to cope all types of people including people who are rude, insensitive, abrasive and even mean. 

In my classroom we don't use the word bully and we don't tattle or run to adult when our feeling get hurt. When kids are having an issue they work it out among themselves. At first, it's mainly with my guidance. But it doesn't take long before kids (even special needs kids) are comfortable and able to talk out situations with their peers. By shifting the focus away from getting help to helping yourself we've developed quite a nice classroom community where issues are few and far between. Students advocate for themselves and others. They behave with civility. Not because I am forcing them to, but because they want to and know it feels good. 

No one is saying not to address it when kids are mean. What I am saying is that adults can't force kids to like each other. By constantly punishing bullies and rarely helping kids cope on their own the problem is getting worse and worse. 

I am perplexed that you never any need for the skill of assertiveness in your professional career or personal relationships. You might be a bit older than me, but I don't think the generation gap is that huge. My mother (who is older than you) is an assertive person who handles herself quite well. My grandmother who would be well over 100 today also demonstrated assertiveness in her day to day life. 

Quoting VeronicaTex:

Thank you for your reply.

When I was in grade school that was from 1960-1966.

Even though the stuttering stopped in 7th grade because I then attended a high school, I still did not learn coping skills.  There was not such a necessity at that point because there wasn't much to pick on at that point..:)  

I did not really talk too much until I was 19.  That is when I joined the Army.

As far as real life coping skills, I didn't really find a need to cope and learn to be assertive, until I got on this very in site 2006.  :) 

This generation is entirely different from mine.

In my honest opinion, kids are very capable of learning coping skills, provided they are handled with finesse and wise guidance on the part of the parents and the school, which now must add this to the many responsibilities they have.

But the truth of the matter is, there are many, many kids out there whose personalities are altered permanently by antagonizing , be it picking or bullying.

I am going to beg to differ on the kids who can not function adequately in a Second language yet, and particularly on children with disabilities.

What is unique about them (the kids with disabilities) is more often than not, they have "innocent" personalities that really do not understand the picking to begin with, besides many of them being non-verbal.  I know this very well because my daughter is a Down Syndrome child being severely to profoundly retarded and non-verbal  .

I feel what you are saying applies mainly to the "typical" child, who has the capacity to understand the reasons behind the bullying and coping skills to counteract this despicable behavior.

I totally understand from having a child with Special Needs why many parents would pull their children out and seek a more accepting and pleasant atmosphere for them.  

From having been a teacher, I also understand and support Mothers whose children are not only tormented by fellow school children, but by teachers as well.

Why even expose a sweet soul to begin with?

Veronica

Qoting maxswolfsuit:


Quoting VeronicaTex:

Two thoughts I'd like to share here at this point:

1.  When I was growing up I stuttered severely, and was made fun of by many people.  There was one girl in particular that would pick on me and it would get physical.  Once this girl pinned me down and pulled my dress up in front of many kids on the playground. All I could do was fight back in my defense.   I did tell my Mother about the incident and when she reported it to the principal, he suggested I was lying.  

I ask these questions:  What could I have done?  How could I have made an impact, being a stutterer?  

Even the adult who was supposed to be protecting me couldn't have been relied on. to intervene.  

He had bias toward the girl picking on me.  In addition to that, my brothers went through some incidents that by today's standards were pretty horrific in terms of humiliation, by both teachers and principal.


2.  This is from when I taught in the bilingual classroom in an At Risk school where the greatest percentage of the 500 children were Afro-American:   I had to be present in a conference where one of my boys from Mexico, shy and not yet knowing English,  had his backpack flung across the cafeteria floor by an American.

This incident had more details to it:  enough to get the American reported for what he did, and how the boy from Mexico tried to defend himself.

Being this Mexican boy's teacher,  I translated for the Mother of the boy from Mexico, in the presence of the vice-principal exactly what happened.  The Mother herself was a very humble woman, and for me it was embarrassing  having to share with her that an American did this to her son, the American, knowing full well he had the advantage over my student not being able to speak English


When I was a child I didn't have the coping mechanisms to be assertive and defending. (not defensive). , much less the ability to put my thoughts into fluid speech.

Isn't that the bigger issue than what other kids did? Just because you didn't have the coping skills, didn't mean you couldn't have learned them. I'm not saying nothing should be done when kids pick on each other. I'm saying we've totally lost focus in teaching kids the coping skills they will need as adults. Many students with various disabilities and non English speaking students have the skills they need to combat other students insensitivity. We need to focus on making sure more more kids have those tools. 

It was the same with my students who did not know English, but they knew they were being antagonized and eventually bullied.  There was no way they could have handled that situation on their own.  

Veronica





hargonagain
by Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 1:30 PM

I was bullied from 2nd to 4th grade in school by one of the "popular girls" and as a result got picked on by all of her minions. I was too afraid to fight them because there were like 20 girls who were picking on me in order to be better liked by that one girl. I told teachers and my Mom, but everyone just said to ignore them and they would leave me alone. BS! It was constant. Name calling, pushing, ruining my home work, tripping me etc. Every time I was on the playground it was a nightmare. I started reading books at recess instead of playing because no matter where I went one of the pack were there to mess with me. My self esteem eroded, I hated school and hated life. I started having major anger issues.

 Finally, one day one of the main ones who was always picking on me was following me out of my class, pushing me in the back all the way to the bus. She was pushing me and calling me names and I was doing my best to ignore her, but I was getting so angry! As I got to the bus, she reached up and pulled my books out of my arms and my books and papers went all over the ground and under the bus. I was so done! I jumped down off that bus step and started beating the crap out of that girl. I was punching and kicking her, I grabbed her head and slammed her head into the side of the bus, I don't even know how many times I did that. The bus driver picked up my books for me and told me to hurry up and get on the bus. Teachers were running towards us and he grabbed my hand and got me one the bus and took off before the teachers could reach us. He had been seeing me get picked on all those years and knew that I was just finally done taking it. Of course the next morning I got called to the Princial's office, but not one of those chicks EVER mess with me again.

 I think it sucks that it took going to that extreme before anything was done. I hope and pray my child never gets bullied, and if he does, I will step in. These days these kids don't just duke it out. They bring guns and knives and all that. Kids kill themselves over being bullied these days.  I do agree that kids need to try to get along, but when there is a case where it won't end, then yeah, adults need to step in.

VeronicaTex
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 1:34 PM

I luckily had the same kind of classroom you have had in all the elementary classrooms I was in, both Catholic school and Public school.

In both our situations I can see we got what we "demanded".  I had a very pleasant classroom, as did all the Bilingual classrooms in the district.  That was how our classrooms were, as compared to the typical classroom.

However, outside the classroom, in the hallways and in the cafeteria, it was a different story entirely, not only with kids who were not my own students, but occasionally with parents:  American. 

I hope I did not mislead you about being not being assertive.  

I was very assertive, in being a classroom teacher inside my room, where I was much more successful than being out among other kids in the school.

That was never  an issue with my Newcomer Center kids and their parents.

I did, however, became involved being assertive with a Mexican-American parent while I was a Bilingual teacher to local kids, mainly, in the beginning of my career.  I eventually got the principal involved because the parent kept badgering me.  

I am thankful she intervened and put the man in his place:  royally.

Being in an At Risk school with Newcomer Center kids and American kids who were born here and their parents,  I had more than one occasion to be assertive to both children and parents, who were not my own students.

Many times the teachers on my grade level down the hall would send their misbehaving kids to my room for a while to see how kids behaved and cooperated with each other, to give that teacher a break.  It worked, and I was glad to do that favor for them, because I know what they dealt with daily.

For all the kids we used a method called "Capturing Kids Hearts" with scripts that have been proven to be very effective authored by Flip Flippen.

I got good results with the kids who were not my students.


I hope I have cleared up any misconception you have about me.

Also, before I finish, I want to touch on "adults can't force kids to like each other" 

While that may be true, I will hope that whatever it takes in the case of antagonizing that every effort is made to protect the child antagonized from future antagonizing, not to mention disciplining to the fullest extent the "bully" or even the person doing the picking.

Veronica


Quoting maxswolfsuit:

I teach special needs students in an inclusion setting. So I'm saying from experience that all different kinds of kids can and do learn coping skills when they have the right environment and support. I've taught non English speaking and non verbal students who all functioned well and get along with their peers. No on gets bullied or picked in my class. Outside of my classroom they treat each other with respect because they've learned to truly respect each other. 

Your last question is very interesting to me. If it were possible to never expose children to mean behavior I would wholeheartedly support that. But how would you suggest we do that? You gave an example of bullying from your classroom. If you couldn't prevent it, how do you expect others to?  The truth is that every one needs to learn to cope all types of people including people who are rude, insensitive, abrasive and even mean. 

In my classroom we don't use the word bully and we don't tattle or run to adult when our feeling get hurt. When kids are having an issue they work it out among themselves. At first, it's mainly with my guidance. But it doesn't take long before kids (even special needs kids) are comfortable and able to talk out situations with their peers. By shifting the focus away from getting help to helping yourself we've developed quite a nice classroom community where issues are few and far between. Students advocate for themselves and others. They behave with civility. Not because I am forcing them to, but because they want to and know it feels good. 

No one is saying not to address it when kids are mean. What I am saying is that adults can't force kids to like each other. By constantly punishing bullies and rarely helping kids cope on their own the problem is getting worse and worse. 

I am perplexed that you never any need for the skill of assertiveness in your professional career or personal relationships. You might be a bit older than me, but I don't think the generation gap is that huge. My mother (who is older than you) is an assertive person who handles herself quite well. My grandmother who would be well over 100 today also demonstrated assertiveness in her day to day life. 

Quoting VeronicaTex:

Thank you for your reply.

When I was in grade school that was from 1960-1966.

Even though the stuttering stopped in 7th grade because I then attended a high school, I still did not learn coping skills.  There was not such a necessity at that point because there wasn't much to pick on at that point..:)  

I did not really talk too much until I was 19.  That is when I joined the Army.

As far as real life coping skills, I didn't really find a need to cope and learn to be assertive, until I got on this very in site 2006.  :) 

This generation is entirely different from mine.

In my honest opinion, kids are very capable of learning coping skills, provided they are handled with finesse and wise guidance on the part of the parents and the school, which now must add this to the many responsibilities they have.

But the truth of the matter is, there are many, many kids out there whose personalities are altered permanently by antagonizing , be it picking or bullying.

I am going to beg to differ on the kids who can not function adequately in a Second language yet, and particularly on children with disabilities.

What is unique about them (the kids with disabilities) is more often than not, they have "innocent" personalities that really do not understand the picking to begin with, besides many of them being non-verbal.  I know this very well because my daughter is a Down Syndrome child being severely to profoundly retarded and non-verbal  .

I feel what you are saying applies mainly to the "typical" child, who has the capacity to understand the reasons behind the bullying and coping skills to counteract this despicable behavior.

I totally understand from having a child with Special Needs why many parents would pull their children out and seek a more accepting and pleasant atmosphere for them.  

From having been a teacher, I also understand and support Mothers whose children are not only tormented by fellow school children, but by teachers as well.

Why even expose a sweet soul to begin with?

Veronica

Qoting maxswolfsuit:


Quoting VeronicaTex:

Two thoughts I'd like to share here at this point:

1.  When I was growing up I stuttered severely, and was made fun of by many people.  There was one girl in particular that would pick on me and it would get physical.  Once this girl pinned me down and pulled my dress up in front of many kids on the playground. All I could do was fight back in my defense.   I did tell my Mother about the incident and when she reported it to the principal, he suggested I was lying.  

I ask these questions:  What could I have done?  How could I have made an impact, being a stutterer?  

Even the adult who was supposed to be protecting me couldn't have been relied on. to intervene.  

He had bias toward the girl picking on me.  In addition to that, my brothers went through some incidents that by today's standards were pretty horrific in terms of humiliation, by both teachers and principal.


2.  This is from when I taught in the bilingual classroom in an At Risk school where the greatest percentage of the 500 children were Afro-American:   I had to be present in a conference where one of my boys from Mexico, shy and not yet knowing English,  had his backpack flung across the cafeteria floor by an American.

This incident had more details to it:  enough to get the American reported for what he did, and how the boy from Mexico tried to defend himself.

Being this Mexican boy's teacher,  I translated for the Mother of the boy from Mexico, in the presence of the vice-principal exactly what happened.  The Mother herself was a very humble woman, and for me it was embarrassing  having to share with her that an American did this to her son, the American, knowing full well he had the advantage over my student not being able to speak English


When I was a child I didn't have the coping mechanisms to be assertive and defending. (not defensive). , much less the ability to put my thoughts into fluid speech.

Isn't that the bigger issue than what other kids did? Just because you didn't have the coping skills, didn't mean you couldn't have learned them. I'm not saying nothing should be done when kids pick on each other. I'm saying we've totally lost focus in teaching kids the coping skills they will need as adults. Many students with various disabilities and non English speaking students have the skills they need to combat other students insensitivity. We need to focus on making sure more more kids have those tools. 

It was the same with my students who did not know English, but they knew they were being antagonized and eventually bullied.  There was no way they could have handled that situation on their own.  

Veronica






MsLogansMommy
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 2:17 PM

this is a great post and I am completing seeing your points I have a couple of questions and I want to preface them by saying my questions are not arguing your points they are actually genuine curiousity  could you give some examples of coping skills and how you teach them? How far would you allow an incident to go before you would say adult intervention is warranted? another mother made a good point a couple comments up about bullying today is very different from when we were in school children are actually committing suicide over being bullied and if we teach our children to stick up for themselves (which i am all for by the way) then arent we also putting them in danger of being hurt severely since alot of older children now choose to fight with guns and knives instead of just fists? Having said that how can we justify encouraging our children to stand up to a bully if it could get physical and possibly fatal?

My dd is only 6 and she has a huge family and I dont think this will ever be an issue since most of her relatives on her fathers side are well not sure how to put it I guess intimidating would be a good word so I dont really worry about it for my dd but I think this is a very important subject because it is heartbreaking to read about kids getting bullied especially to the point of taking their own life. I always try to do things that will raise my childs self esteem and sense of self worth so if someone were to say something hurtful it shouldnt have such a powerful effect but I am not in her head so I dont really know if there is some trigger that if pushed would just be devastating for her all I can do is continue to show her her value as a person and pray I am doing enough

Quoting maxswolfsuit:


Isn't that the bigger issue than what other kids did? Just because you didn't have the coping skills, didn't mean you couldn't have learned them. I'm not saying nothing should be done when kids pick on each other. I'm saying we've totally lost focus in teaching kids the coping skills they will need as adults. Many students with various disabilities and non English speaking students have the skills they need to combat other students insensitivity. We need to focus on making sure more more kids have those tools. 

It was the same with my students who did not know English, but they knew they were being antagonized and eventually bullied.  There was no way they could have handled that situation on their own.  

Veronica

 



maxswolfsuit
by Max on Nov. 21, 2012 at 2:57 PM


Quoting MsLogansMommy:

this is a great post and I am completing seeing your points I have a couple of questions and I want to preface them by saying my questions are not arguing your points they are actually genuine curiousity  could you give some examples of coping skills and how you teach them? I do a lot of community building. The kids really get to know each other and understand that different people have different temperaments and quirks. Kids need to be taught to look at situations from other people's points of view. (many adults could stand that lesson too) By helping them understand why some kids might be upset or offended by different things they become much more empathic. As opposed to just telling them they have to be nice. Which they don't understand and honestly can't always do even if they want to. They also need to learn communication skills. I do lots of roll playing and we discuss how to explain your feelings in a calm understandable way. I also have to teach listening skills. It's even harder to listen to another person's point of view when you are upset. But kids have to do that in order to repsolve arguments. How far would you allow an incident to go before you would say adult intervention is warranted? It's not really something that has a simple answer. There are many factors that make every situation different. And I'm not saying I don't do anything. But I don't step in and simply reprimand one child. I work with each individually and both together to help them resolve the issue rather than me coming up with the solution. Bullying is rarely as one sided as the version parents get at home. Young kids are very self centered. They have a hard time seeing how they could have played a part in a bad situation. By teaching them that they can make most situations better by controlling their own actions they have the skills they need. And isn't that really how the adult world should work? If your neighbor is a jerk fighting with him all the time doesn't make your neighborhood any better. Having good communication skills and the ability to problem solve will help them deal with difficult people in the adult world. When they grow up there is no one to report the jerks to. another mother made a good point a couple comments up about bullying today is very different from when we were in school children are actually committing suicide over being bullied and if we teach our children to stick up for themselves (which i am all for by the way) then arent we also putting them in danger of being hurt severely since alot of older children now choose to fight with guns and knives instead of just fists? Having said that how can we justify encouraging our children to stand up to a bully if it could get physical and possibly fatal? 

I'm talking about elementary aged kids. There are instances of kids using weapons, but that's far from the the norm. And if we teach kids to cope it won't come to that point when they get older. I think that's why it has gotten so much worse. When kids get to high school they don't have essential skills needed to get along. And the message they get over over is that if someone is mean it has to be stopped. No one teaches them it doesn't have to ruin their life. No one teaches them that what a jerk has to say doesn't have to be important. 

My dd is only 6 and she has a huge family and I dont think this will ever be an issue since most of her relatives on her fathers side are well not sure how to put it I guess intimidating would be a good word so I dont really worry about it for my dd but I think this is a very important subject because it is heartbreaking to read about kids getting bullied especially to the point of taking their own life. I always try to do things that will raise my childs self esteem and sense of self worth so if someone were to say something hurtful it shouldnt have such a powerful effect Teaching her that has a HUGE impact. When mom is at school over every little incident, kids get the message very quickly that they aren't strong enough to take care of themselves. They also get the message that they are so fragile the actions of classmates will devastate them. Look at it this way. If you rushed her to the ER every time she scrapped her knee wouldn't she be terrified to get on her bike or play outside? If she thought every little bump or bruise was a major injury wouldn't that impact the way she plays? That's the message our kids are getting in the past few years. Every little mean look or unkind word is called abusive and kids think they have been emotionally abused when they've really just been slighted.  

Our kids do what we expect them to. If you expect your child to rise above it she will. If you don't think she can handle it, she probably wont. And guess who gets bullied? The kids who are devastated by it. If we start when they are little and teach them that mean words aren't a true reflection of them as a person, they will be better prepared to deal with and avoid the bullies as they get older. but I am not in her head so I dont really know if there is some trigger that if pushed would just be devastating for her all I can do is continue to show her her value as a person and pray I am doing enough


Quoting maxswolfsuit:


Isn't that the bigger issue than what other kids did? Just because you didn't have the coping skills, didn't mean you couldn't have learned them. I'm not saying nothing should be done when kids pick on each other. I'm saying we've totally lost focus in teaching kids the coping skills they will need as adults. Many students with various disabilities and non English speaking students have the skills they need to combat other students insensitivity. We need to focus on making sure more more kids have those tools. 

It was the same with my students who did not know English, but they knew they were being antagonized and eventually bullied.  There was no way they could have handled that situation on their own.  

Veronica





mjande4
by Platinum Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 6:59 PM

I'm cutting the quote tree, but Max has given outstanding advice.  I would also like to add that she is right.  Too many kids hit middle and high school without adequate coping/problem solving skills.  These are skills that should have been acquired as far back as toddlerhood.  Moms and dads overprotect and underprepare their children to function in everyday life.  In addition, too many kids do not play outside in their neighborhoods and their time is micromanaged so they don't have the social skills to manuever the "playground". The skills needed do not change as kids age, the settings do.  It is imperative that kids learn early how to solve problems themselves.  Not everyone is going to like you or accept you, and you are not going to get along with every person you come in contact with.  The key, however,  is learning how to handle those types of relationships.

Quoting maxswolfsuit:



calsmom62
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 8:25 PM
I agree with both posters here. In another century( its fun to say that), I taught pre K -middle school. (Not at the same time). And pretty much without breaks I've been involved with youth organizations, and a parent for almost 28yrs. The ability of kids to accept responsibility for their actions and to be ashamed of how they behaved has decreased over the years. "I am so sorry I tripped you, I feel really bad because I wouldn't anyone to treat me like that". It doesn't help when parents either refuse to acknowledge that their child erred, or insist that the child has no control over a particular behavior.
Or that they are going to sue, withdraw their child or ??? if a corrective action is enforced. ...disclaimer....I have two children who had IEPs, so I am aware there are those with valid impulsively issues.
Alongside the lack of personal accountability. I have also observed that groups of children can no longer, without adult direction, get in a straight line, form a circle, or even divide in to two or more teams for an activity. As for solving their own disputes they are very quick to drag adults in. And few adults seem comfortable sending the child back to figure it out. At playgrounds over the years I watched this play out time and time again. Mom hovering over Bobby in the sandbox , ready to intervene if Suzy touched his shovel, or took too long at the swing or slide. Unless we teach kids early to problem solve for themselves,and that they also have a responsibility to their fellow earthlings, we are going to continue to see a rise in bullying and entitlement behaviors.


Quoting anxiousschk:

I find myself consistently agreeing with your replies!  


Quoting maxswolfsuit:

I wish that word could be eradicated from the English language. 

Bullying must be repeated and generally the bully his greater power or influence through age or social status. 

I have a huge issue with adults interviewing in "bullying" issue when students haven't tried to solve the issues on their own. Kids are capable of handling so much more than we let them. I have seen a startling decline in the coping and social skills of my students through my 15 career. Kids are no longer able to handle disputes without an adult. They don't stick up for themselves. They've been told they need help from a grown up when someone is mean so they don't even try to handle it on their own. 

Even worse, kids no longer understand that another person's unkind words don't have to ruin your day or your life. Children used to be able to roll their eyes and brush things off. Now they been trained to cry for help every time someone isn't nice to them. We are telling them they've been abused when someone is mean, rude or inconsiderate. We are creating a whole generation of victims. 

How will these children handle adulthood when they expect someone to swoop in and rescue them every time someone is rude?



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maxswolfsuit
by Max on Nov. 21, 2012 at 8:49 PM
1 mom liked this

Good points. 

I also agree it starts way before elementary school. Our communities have changed and the way parents expect small children to relate have too.  People are so focused on protecting their children they forget that we need to teach them to protect themselves. 

Quoting calsmom62:

I agree with both posters here. In another century( its fun to say that), I taught pre K -middle school. (Not at the same time). And pretty much without breaks I've been involved with youth organizations, and a parent for almost 28yrs. The ability of kids to accept responsibility for their actions and to be ashamed of how they behaved has decreased over the years. "I am so sorry I tripped you, I feel really bad because I wouldn't anyone to treat me like that". It doesn't help when parents either refuse to acknowledge that their child erred, or insist that the child has no control over a particular behavior.
Or that they are going to sue, withdraw their child or ??? if a corrective action is enforced. ...disclaimer....I have two children who had IEPs, so I am aware there are those with valid impulsively issues.
Alongside the lack of personal accountability. I have also observed that groups of children can no longer, without adult direction, get in a straight line, form a circle, or even divide in to two or more teams for an activity. As for solving their own disputes they are very quick to drag adults in. And few adults seem comfortable sending the child back to figure it out. At playgrounds over the years I watched this play out time and time again. Mom hovering over Bobby in the sandbox , ready to intervene if Suzy touched his shovel, or took too long at the swing or slide. Unless we teach kids early to problem solve for themselves,and that they also have a responsibility to their fellow earthlings, we are going to continue to see a rise in bullying and entitlement behaviors.


Quoting anxiousschk:

I find myself consistently agreeing with your replies!  


Quoting maxswolfsuit:

I wish that word could be eradicated from the English language. 

Bullying must be repeated and generally the bully his greater power or influence through age or social status. 

I have a huge issue with adults interviewing in "bullying" issue when students haven't tried to solve the issues on their own. Kids are capable of handling so much more than we let them. I have seen a startling decline in the coping and social skills of my students through my 15 career. Kids are no longer able to handle disputes without an adult. They don't stick up for themselves. They've been told they need help from a grown up when someone is mean so they don't even try to handle it on their own. 

Even worse, kids no longer understand that another person's unkind words don't have to ruin your day or your life. Children used to be able to roll their eyes and brush things off. Now they been trained to cry for help every time someone isn't nice to them. We are telling them they've been abused when someone is mean, rude or inconsiderate. We are creating a whole generation of victims. 

How will these children handle adulthood when they expect someone to swoop in and rescue them every time someone is rude?




Tracys2
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 9:07 PM

That is the legal one and I'm OK with it, but unkindness of any sort just is not acceptable in my world, so I don't bother with that word at all. If my kids are unkind, that's that. And if they have a problem with anyone, we deal with it.

When you get into definitions, which I guess schools must for administrative reasons, you get explanations and accusations and people and kids who feel inferior or superior because they are on one side or the other doing or not doing any number of things. 

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