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Military ladies! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!! Long and some small cussing, sorry!

Posted by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:19 PM
  • 19 Replies

 Alright ladies, this is going to be a long one so please bear with me. I've tried to keep it to myself and now I'm freaking the hell out, stressed and panicking. I know, bad for the baby...

A little backstory before I give you the reasons: A year and a half ago, my husband applied for leave repeatedly and his leave kept getting denied. Again and again. Finally, I went to figure out what the hell was going on and discovered that the 1SG was denying leave, something that he is NOT allowed to do. The approval or deniable authority is the commander alone, the 1SG can only RECOMMEND disapproval. So, after the 4th reasonless disapproval, hubby went to the commander. Ever since then, he's been blacklisted for whistleblowing. Now, on to the issue:

My husband is being barred from reenlisting. Under the most bogus, stupid, craptastic reasons.

For "not keeping up with his peers" despite the fact that he's only been an NCO for a year and he got deployed right after making E-5, didn't get to go to WLC, and then tossed on nightshift ALONE, with no one to guide him. He has had ONE NCOer and it was not the greatest. Then because he was late at the beginning of the deployment, ONCE. He was just adjusting to sleeping during the day and working at night and he overslept. ONCE. And finally because there was a mouse in his room that he got traps for and killed. The mouse was already there when he moved in on December 24th, he discovered it several days later, got traps and killed it. He got punished, his roommate who had been living with the mouse and had even been BIT by the fucking thing, did not.

Now, being a former S-1, when I heard this, I ran to get the reg and start reading up on it. AR 601-280 chapter 8, in case anyone else wants to read up on it. First thing I discovered, the BOR is NOT to be used as punitive action, it is a rehabilitative action. They can't use it to punish him because they don't like him, in other words. (Paragraph 8-2) Then I discovered the rebuttal process and the appeals process. I didn't understand it entirely, so I went to my husband's Rear D retention to have it further explained to me. She explained everything, was as sweet as could be, gave me some pointers and ideas on how to do things. So kind.

Then, my husband informs me today that he was read his bar today, citing the reasons I gave you. And the CO said to him that my husband in no uncertain terms that he wanted my husband out of the Army, period.

He, then, informed my husband that he had until "tomorrow" (tonight for us because they're still in Afghanistan) to type up his rebuttal. When the regulation states clearly that he has 7 days to prepare his comment. When informed of this, the CO ignored him. My husband also has 7 days AFTER the bar is approved by the BN CO to file his appeal, per paragraph 8-5b.

My husband has, also, attempted to use the CSM's open door policy in an effort to locate someone who could help him with all this, and was told no. I was advised by the retention NCO that he go see the CSM for advice, because she knows he is a very Solider-oriented individual. So I told him this and he was refused.

My question: Am I wrong for advising him to go see IG now? This commander is flouting the regulations set in place and is making up his own rules, not to mention he is choosing on whom he will enforce these new rules. He already has an enormous bullseye painted on his back, is there anything else they can do to him at this point?

I have, also, offered to call Chip. He is a close family friend and the aide of Rep. Dennis Cardoza from California. Is it time to get Congress involved?

A side note: My husband sent me a template memorandum so I could type up his rebuttal all professional and neat. I just opened it up to start typing and discovered it was a memorandum stating that my husband would be ETSed from the Army before his CIF items would return to Ft. Campbell. His ETS date is in May of this year. It was dated 6 January. MEANING they have been doing his paperwork BEFORE the bar was even initiated to boot him out. They aren't even giving him a chance!!!




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by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:19 PM
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Replies (1-10):
spcjones203
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:20 PM

 And just one other note to add to all this...

How does having a mouse in poorly constructed living conditions make him incapable of being an NCO and being a good Soldier? There was an epidemic of mice throughout the entire place they were at in Afghanistan, everyone had them. They'd kill them, the mice would move to another area and be killed there, then the survivors would move on to a new area! My husband killed his mouse immediately and proceeded to clean his entire room thoroughly to ensure there were no droppings left behind.

There are no mice here at our house! Our house is clean and neat and well-organized if not a little bizarre...




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teresa06
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:25 PM

Not military but heres a bump!

xxlilmomma09
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:30 PM

He can go see IG and possibly put in a complaint... But the not fulfilling a job as an NCO can result in punishment. The Army is in the process of cutting down numbers, and one little screw up can potentially ruin your future within the military. My husband is kicking guys out for missing doctor's appointment.. failing to clean a barracks room.. failing to maintain a TA-50.. or for simply being late.

Your husband can attempt to fight this, but be warned.. it is a lengthy process. From what my husband told me, all it takes to kick someone out is 2 negative counseling statements or 2 incidences where they messed up (loosing paperwork & being late can be used). It shows "pattern of misconduct" or "failure to adapt"

xxlilmomma09
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:33 PM

Another word of advice from my husband... Let your husband deal with the problems.. Not you. He said that it is better for the service member to be proactive and show initiative on his/her own. Nothing annoys a CoC more than having a spouse get involved with military issues.

EDIT: Also, there are incidences where my husband has paperwork completed on a service member before the service member is even aware of the chapter. There have been some that were given a 2 week notification before getting chaptered.

Your husband should be considered lucky that they are just simply barring him from re-enlistment, rather than chaptering him out NOW... because they can. My husband just got back 3 guys from Iraq last week & he will have their chapter packets completed within a month.

armyfeeding babytoddler girltoddler boy

                    


Sirenabella
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:35 PM

Your DH needs to contact everyone you mentioned. 

spcjones203
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:35 PM

 Failure to adapt after 10 years of loyal, unpunished service?

Can you ask your husband about this situation and if he has any advice for me and my husband?

Also, it states flat out in the regulation that the commander cannot use the bar as a punitive action, it's a rehabilitative tool. They have to use it to help him make improvements and still give him a chance. This commander is using it as a punishment.

Quoting xxlilmomma09:

He can go see IG and possibly put in a complaint... But the not fulfilling a job as an NCO can result in punishment. The Army is in the process of cutting down numbers, and one little screw up can potentially ruin your future within the military. My husband is kicking guys out for missing doctor's appointment.. failing to clean a barracks room.. failing to maintain a TA-50.. or for simply being late.

Your husband can attempt to fight this, but be warned.. it is a lengthy process. From what my husband told me, all it takes to kick someone out is 2 negative counseling statements or 2 incidences where they messed up (loosing paperwork & being late can be used). It shows "pattern of misconduct" or "failure to adapt"

 




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xxlilmomma09
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:40 PM

My husband is facing a medical board process after almost 9 years in service. He wanted to be a lifer.. But now it is being taken from him.

Your husband should receive an honorable discharge if he is ETSing out of the Army.. and a honorable discharge will allow your husband to receive his benefits.

Did your husband receive counseling statements at all? Counseling statements are used as ways to help the soldier improve & give the service member a chance to improve.

Has your husband received his NCO eval? What does it say on it?

My husband should be home in a bit & I will sit down & talk to him more about it.. But it is hard to know exactly what is going on with someone without all the details.. Even the small ones.. Like every time your husband received a counseling statement, every time he was reprimanded.

Quoting spcjones203:

 Failure to adapt after 10 years of loyal, unpunished service?

Can you ask your husband about this situation and if he has any advice for me and my husband?

Also, it states flat out in the regulation that the commander cannot use the bar as a punitive action, it's a rehabilitative tool. They have to use it to help him make improvements and still give him a chance. This commander is using it as a punishment.

Quoting xxlilmomma09:

He can go see IG and possibly put in a complaint... But the not fulfilling a job as an NCO can result in punishment. The Army is in the process of cutting down numbers, and one little screw up can potentially ruin your future within the military. My husband is kicking guys out for missing doctor's appointment.. failing to clean a barracks room.. failing to maintain a TA-50.. or for simply being late.

Your husband can attempt to fight this, but be warned.. it is a lengthy process. From what my husband told me, all it takes to kick someone out is 2 negative counseling statements or 2 incidences where they messed up (loosing paperwork & being late can be used). It shows "pattern of misconduct" or "failure to adapt"

 


armyfeeding babytoddler girltoddler boy

                    


lil_Army_Wife05
by Ruby Member on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:40 PM

I really don't know much about all that....But I do know the Military is hard up for money and they are kicking anyone out for the smallest thing! My husband said at least a few people he knew who got caught speeding have now been kicked out.....So they are on the hunt to kick people out and they are not promoting very many people either!

All I can tell you is you need to get a laywer and fight this. Good luck!

xxlilmomma09
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:49 PM

My husband told me to ask you what was on his NCOR? That is the eval that he is given as an NCO.

spcjones203
by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 4:52 PM

 He has had TWO negative counseling statements, not consecutive and for entirely different reasons. That were refuted, because others involved of the same rank, higher and lower, were not counseled despite being in the same situation. Like the mouse epidemic. The entire place in Afghanistan was crawling with mice, but he alone out of his unit (I can't say which) got counseled. Even though the mouse was there before he even moved into the room. 

He did receive his NCOer and it was not a good one at all, but there was no evidence as to why it was poor. So that one is also being argued about, because they have no proof.

Quoting xxlilmomma09:

My husband is facing a medical board process after almost 9 years in service. He wanted to be a lifer.. But now it is being taken from him.

Your husband should receive an honorable discharge if he is ETSing out of the Army.. and a honorable discharge will allow your husband to receive his benefits.

Did your husband receive counseling statements at all? Counseling statements are used as ways to help the soldier improve & give the service member a chance to improve.

Has your husband received his NCO eval? What does it say on it?

My husband should be home in a bit & I will sit down & talk to him more about it.. But it is hard to know exactly what is going on with someone without all the details.. Even the small ones.. Like every time your husband received a counseling statement, every time he was reprimanded.

Quoting spcjones203:

 Failure to adapt after 10 years of loyal, unpunished service?

Can you ask your husband about this situation and if he has any advice for me and my husband?

Also, it states flat out in the regulation that the commander cannot use the bar as a punitive action, it's a rehabilitative tool. They have to use it to help him make improvements and still give him a chance. This commander is using it as a punishment.

Quoting xxlilmomma09:

He can go see IG and possibly put in a complaint... But the not fulfilling a job as an NCO can result in punishment. The Army is in the process of cutting down numbers, and one little screw up can potentially ruin your future within the military. My husband is kicking guys out for missing doctor's appointment.. failing to clean a barracks room.. failing to maintain a TA-50.. or for simply being late.

Your husband can attempt to fight this, but be warned.. it is a lengthy process. From what my husband told me, all it takes to kick someone out is 2 negative counseling statements or 2 incidences where they messed up (loosing paperwork & being late can be used). It shows "pattern of misconduct" or "failure to adapt"

 


 




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