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The Great Flood (spin off from: Question For Those Who Don't Believe In The Bible)

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Spin off from the thread: Question For Those Who Don't Believe In The Bible


The link given by the OP in that thread gives, as evidence of the veracity of the Christian Bible:

(source)

The most documented Biblical event is the world-wide flood described in Genesis 6-9. A number of Babylonian documents have been discovered which describe the same flood.

The Sumerian King List (pictured here), for example, lists kings who reigned for long periods of time. Then a great flood came. Following the flood, Sumerian kings ruled for much shorter periods of time. This is the same pattern found in the Bible. Men had long life spans before the flood and shorter life spans after the flood. The 11th tablet of the Gilgamesh Epic speaks of an ark, animals taken on the ark, birds sent out during the course of the flood, the ark landing on a mountain, and a sacrifice offered after the ark landed.

For a thorough discussion of the Sumerian King List and its Biblical implications, see “The Antediluvian Patriarchs and the Sumerian King List,” by Raul Lopez, in the CEN Technical Journal 12 (3) 1998, pp. 347-57


My question is: should this really be taken as evidence that the Bible is correct, or, if the earlier stories from other religions are actually more accurate, should it be taken as evidence that the Bible is wrong - an exaggeration of a story stolen from elsewhere?


Here's what the Epic of Gilgamesh actually says about the flood.  It doesn't claim the whole world was flooded - it appears to be a more local affair...

(source)

Here's where he talks about the loading of the Ark:

I had all my kith and kin go up into the boat,
all the beasts and animals of the field and the craftsmen I
                             had go up.


In other words, he loaded his household goods, his family, the servants with useful skills, and the herdbeasts in his fields - his sheep, goats and cattle.    Nothing about all the species in the world.


Here's where he talks about finding a place to moor the boat after the rains stop:

I looked around for coastlines in the expanse of the sea,
and at twelve leagues there emerged a region (of land).
On Mt. Nimush the boat lodged firm,


When the waters subsided a bit, here's where it talks about the long voyage to find the edge of the flooded region:

 Then Gilgamesh raised a punting pole
 and drew the boat to shore.
[...]
At twenty leagues they broke for some food, at thirty leagues they stopped for the night.
[...]
At that point Gilgamesh sat down, weeping, his tears streaming over the side of his nose. "Counsel me, O ferryman Urshanabi! For whom have my arms labored, Urshanabi! For whom has my heart's blood roiled! I have not secured any good deed for myself, but done a good deed for the 'lion of the ground'!" Now the high waters are coursing twenty leagues distant,' as I was opening the conduit(?) I turned my equipment over into it (!). What can I find (to serve) as a marker(?) for me! I will turn back (from the journey by sea) and leave the boat by the shore!" At twenty leagues they broke for some food, at thirty leagues they stopped for the night. They arrived in Uruk-Haven.

(The [...] are where I've left out long sections where he berates the gods, sacrifices to them, and asks for punting directions.)


by on Nov. 2, 2011 at 10:57 AM
Replies (21-30):
lilnome7
by on Nov. 3, 2011 at 6:08 AM

I am more likely to agree with the concept of it being a localilized flood.

All good stories start somewhere and are adapted over time.  Look at any of the fairytales.  Tracing them back leads in many directions with just a main theme to unit them in each culture.  So something as logical as a flood to wipe out everything... it's a global probability of happening everywhere at some point.

Clairwil
by Silver Member on Nov. 3, 2011 at 9:40 AM
Quoting Sweet_Faith:

Well I believe there was a flood that covered the entire world and the only ones that survived were Noah, his family and all the animals on the arc.

*nods* and many people share that belief with you.

The issue in this thread is whether there is any objective evidence supporting that belief and whether the descriptions of floods in other religious texts form part of that evidence, or whether instead they actually serve to cast doubt upon the accuracy of the Biblical description.


Quoting Sweet_Faith:

I found this article to be very interesting as I scanned it quickly this morning.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1985830,00.html

I think you'll find that the find mentioned in that article was a fraud set up by the Turkish mountain guide, who knew when he was onto a good thing and had some relatives transport ancient timbers up from a ruin down by the coast.

Sweet_Faith
by Ruby Member on Nov. 3, 2011 at 7:22 PM

As I've had no time to do anything being busy with work and just getting home, this will involve quite a bit research which I don't have time to do now and I'm exhausted. I'll see what I can find tomorrow on my day off, thanks:)

Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting Sweet_Faith:

Well I believe there was a flood that covered the entire world and the only ones that survived were Noah, his family and all the animals on the arc.

*nods* and many people share that belief with you.

The issue in this thread is whether there is any objective evidence supporting that belief and whether the descriptions of floods in other religious texts form part of that evidence, or whether instead they actually serve to cast doubt upon the accuracy of the Biblical description.


Quoting Sweet_Faith:

I found this article to be very interesting as I scanned it quickly this morning.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1985830,00.html

I think you'll find that the find mentioned in that article was a fraud set up by the Turkish mountain guide, who knew when he was onto a good thing and had some relatives transport ancient timbers up from a ruin down by the coast.


mommasbabies77
by on Nov. 3, 2011 at 7:27 PM
Imo, the bible holds truth but not whole truth.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
IhartU
by Silver Member on Nov. 4, 2011 at 9:43 AM

 

Quoting mommasbabies77:

Imo, the bible holds truth but not whole truth.

 Like all mythologies, there are some historical accuracies- real events, people and places but that doesn't make it ALL true.

DizzyMissLizzy
by on Nov. 4, 2011 at 9:57 AM
Bump for later!
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
KitschyGirl
by on Nov. 4, 2011 at 10:03 AM
Great post
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Clairwil
by Silver Member on Nov. 4, 2011 at 10:00 PM

BUMP!

laranadtony
by Emerald Member on Nov. 4, 2011 at 10:02 PM

 The most prolific event in the bible is being cast out of the garden of eden.First things first,when they find the garden of eden,I will consider talking about the flood.

Nothing against you but the very first thing written in the bible cannot be proven!

Clairwil
by Silver Member on Nov. 5, 2011 at 5:35 AM

Here, for balance, is the opposing viewpoint (source):

Question: "Was Noah's flood global or local?"

Answer:
The biblical passages regarding the flood make it clear that it was global. Genesis 7:11 states that “all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.” Genesis 1:6-7 and 2:6 tell us that the pre-flood environment was much different from that which we experience today. Based on these and other biblical descriptions, it is reasonably speculated that at one time the earth was covered by some kind of water canopy. This canopy could have been a vapor canopy, or it might have consisted of rings, somewhat like Saturn's ice rings. This, in combination with a layer of water underground, released upon the land (Genesis 2:6) would have resulted in a global flood.

The clearest verses that show the extent of the flood are Genesis 7:19-23. Regarding the waters, “They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.”

In the above passage, we not only find the word “all” being used repeatedly, but we also find “all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered,” “the waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet,“ and “every living thing that moved on the earth perished.” These descriptions clearly describe a universal flood covering the whole earth. Also, if the flood was localized, why did God instruct Noah to build an ark instead of merely telling Noah to move and causing the animals to migrate? And why did He instruct Noah to build an ark large enough to house all of the different kinds of land animals found on the earth? If the flood was not global, there would have been no need for an ark.

Peter also describes the universality of the flood in 2 Peter 3:6-7, where he states, “By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.” In these verses Peter compares the “universal” coming judgment to the flood of Noah's time and states that the world that existed then was flooded with water. Further, many biblical writers accepted the historicity of the worldwide flood (Isaiah 54:9; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5; Hebrews 11:7). Lastly, the Lord Jesus Christ believed in the universal flood and took it as the type of the coming destruction of the world when He returns (Matthew 24:37-39; Luke 17:26-27).

There are many extra-biblical evidences that point to a worldwide catastrophe such as a global flood. There are vast fossil graveyards found on every continent and large amounts of coal deposits that would require the rapid covering of vast quantities of vegetation. Oceanic fossils are found upon mountain tops around the world. Cultures in all parts of the world have some form of flood legend. All of these facts and many others are evidence of a global flood.

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