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Apparently giving birth is selfish

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So I went to a business dinner with my husband that included a few men from his firm and their wives/so to welcome a new partner.  Since I'd never met the new guys wife before myself and some others were making polite conversation and i asked if she had any children.  She replied they had 2 daughters from China and a son from Russia, she showed us a picture from her purse and told us a bit about them.  I mentioned that they were adorable and that my aunt also had a daughter from China, because she couldn't conceive (i was not insinuating that was her issue at al) She said "ohh no no no. I'm fully fertile.  We just feel with so many homeless, starving children in the world it is just very selfish to have children.  There are too many that need good homes and yet people just keep bringing more children in to a world of limited resources.  Its just awful" At this point every person at the table kind of silenced.  Her husband tried to kin of smooth it over and turned it a little sayig like Oh she means you know more people keep having kids they can't care for its so sad.  She cut him right off and said "no I mean no one in general should be creating children when there are so many out there that need help.It's just so selfish and it's so egotistical how people think they have to mark their territory on the world by planting their seed" AWKWARD! 

Listen I get what she is saying and I think adoption is wonderful..but who the hell says having your own kids is selfish and egotistical? Sorry bitch but we have 2 gorgeous children we made and raise and are working on #3..if that makes me a selfish, egotistical resource waster so be it! lol

Her husband who is technically one of my husband's bosses approached everyone  today who was there and personally apologized and said he had hoped his wifes comments did not offend anyone.  My husband of course said no problem at all...but you can bet they all think this chick is a crazy bitch. 

by on Feb. 16, 2012 at 10:07 PM
Replies (711-720):
KellySunshine
by on Feb. 22, 2012 at 9:45 PM

I do not remember this specific post, but I do not expect anyone to adopt....

I just wanted to challenge that adoption is a personal choice and where/when people adopt is very much their business. The ecosystem of adoption is much more complex and those decisions are made on much more criteria than In/out of the US. Most people that have that opinion and feel the need to share it (trust me, all international adoptive parents have heard it more times than we can count)..are the ones who have not, nor plan to adopt. It is hard to have beliefs that solely require others around you to comply with and not yourself.

Outside of that, you may only be "hearing" of international adoptions on the news or in your area. I know in 2009, over 57K adoptions were done in the US from a public welfare system (so does not include private adoptions) and in 2010, they were 11,100 international adoptions overall completed by US citizens. The foster care adoptions domestic outpace international adoptions by over five to 1 each year.

I am all for any orphaned child getting a home...so I am supportive any adoption effort (as well as, of course, have biological child as well) if a parent choices that.

People on this thread seem to forget, that many of us have living, breathing internationally adopted children at home that we love each, kiss, and mother everyday that is our LIFE and  not just an "international adoption" or statistic.


Quoting Nina924:

To: Kellysunshine

My post did mot say that ALL adoptions should be form the U.S., just more. (only because all I usually hear about  adoptions from other countries)   I would love to adopt some day.  I'm currently pregnant and it would not be fair to either child to do so right now. It is afterall about the children. 


kitty8199
by Ruby Member on Feb. 22, 2012 at 10:17 PM
I know a few that did it. One couple only wanted high risk teen boys. They got 12 at a time. They turned some around. They should pop up in google. Zepherhills fl and they are the zumo family. They were my exs aunt and uncle.
A gay couple at work who made it sound easy. They got a brother/sister and actually adopted. A lady at the day care I used to work at fostered random kids. You never knew who shed bring in, lol. I didn't know there were restrictions on the kid having to be oldest or youngest. They told me that the foster parent says what they want. Oh well. Still gonna do it one day. Makes more sense for them to tell you.


Quoting KellySunshine:

Yes, as do we as well....but I am not sure I would call it "easy". You have to meet with a foster social worker, child social worker, GAL, and adoption social worker every single month The inital process is 8 weekends of classes, 2 - 3 homevisits, background checks, financial forms, Dr appts, etc. It not only takes 6 - 8 months to complete, but has to be renewed every year...but you do get a monthly stipend, so money is not an issue to do it.

Our son had 9 appointments this week and have 14 hours of foster training Thurs/Fri. My husband and I actually work full time and are pretty much working an average of 20 hours a week right now with all the appointments, school issues, and emotional trantrums (they last hours at a time) and making up work in the evenings to compensate.

We have a 9 year boy for foster/adopt with Aspergers, complex trauma, PTSD, Emotional Disturbance, Reactive Attachment Issues. His appointments for neuroofeedback are 140 miles RT, twice a week. We are trying a new experimental neurofeedback therapy to control trauma tantrums.

Good for you going to foster and adopt, great to see that...but people do what is best for them and their family, and that is not always domestic adoption.There are many factors to consider and when you get your foster child(ren), you will realize the commitment and care it takes...always wonderful in the end, but hard day to day. Adoptive moms have very valid and sacred reasons to choice their children.

We could not have taken a child with sexual issues (as we have other children) or extensive sibling groups due to room nor were we open to either gender because of emotional issues in our daughter. We were able fortunately this time to take a child that is required to be the  youngest, but not the ones that required them to be the only child. Before that was not an option as we wanted more children. This time we are ok with this being our last. We also required a child that had parental rights removed in court. We could not allow our other adoptive children to deal with bonding and loss unnecessarily.

If we had not proactively found a child in our area with those criteria on AdoptionExchange, we probably would have been asked to be placed with children they needed immediate homes for verses someone who will work within our current family structure. We had to call the social workers every week and reintroduce ourselves for 3 months to get considered for him...I would not really call the domestic process "easy".

I am glad you are going to foster and adopt at some point in the future...but honestly, I would not really hold that firm belief on that "take care of our own" opinion for others until you have done that yourself.

Blessings on your future adoption.






Quoting kitty8199:

When I am in a position where I can I plan on fostering. I've already looked into it. Going through CPS seems pretty easy. House check, background check, talk to friends and family-boom got a kid.



Quoting KellySunshine:

Everyone's choice and method to start and expand a family is a sacred one to them alone. No one can tell you that.

I understand your beliefs though, I wish you much blessing in your own US foster/adoption(s).



Quoting kitty8199:

Yes they do but I feel like people should start at home.





Quoting KellySunshine:

Except the world in significantly more than the US...the agencies are not "manufacturing" children..those pictures are all real children in orphanages. All children in this world are deserving of loving parents....in the US and out.




Quoting kitty8199:

I honestly feel like there are too many kids in foster care to adopt from an agency if she really wants to "save the world". Adopt from foster care in the US.




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KellySunshine
by on Feb. 22, 2012 at 10:48 PM

It usually has to do with emotional trauma. Some children need to be the only child for a defined amount of time due to issues around sibling trauma or increased tantrums that may be a threat to other children. Our son from the US needed to be the youngest. He had emotional trauma from family of origin that indicated that he would be extremely jealous of younger siblings and his emotional age was 5 or 6 and low IQ required that he be the "baby" of the family for ideal healing. They would, most likely, not approved an adoptive family that had younger children than him. There are also kid in his former group home that are required to be the only child as they will take a lot of work and siblings may be problematic. They do not want anyone blowing up in a family. The failed adoption rate for US foster is pretty high. Most have to do with attachment and safety issues.

Many of these children (both domestic and international) have layers of complex trauma and core hurts that impair internal happiness. It takes a lot of patience and time. We are being asked to consult with couples foster adopting high needs children over transition and expectation. We have a two older bio children but this adoption we are doing is our third with definite transition challenges everytime. 

Good luck to you. A word of advice that "easy" should not be a expectation. If it is easy, that is great, but do not go in expecting that.

Take Care!

Quoting kitty8199:

I know a few that did it. One couple only wanted high risk teen boys. They got 12 at a time. They turned some around. They should pop up in google. Zepherhills fl and they are the zumo family. They were my exs aunt and uncle.
A gay couple at work who made it sound easy. They got a brother/sister and actually adopted. A lady at the day care I used to work at fostered random kids. You never knew who shed bring in, lol. I didn't know there were restrictions on the kid having to be oldest or youngest. They told me that the foster parent says what they want. Oh well. Still gonna do it one day. Makes more sense for them to tell you.


Quoting KellySunshine:

Yes, as do we as well....but I am not sure I would call it "easy". You have to meet with a foster social worker, child social worker, GAL, and adoption social worker every single month The inital process is 8 weekends of classes, 2 - 3 homevisits, background checks, financial forms, Dr appts, etc. It not only takes 6 - 8 months to complete, but has to be renewed every year...but you do get a monthly stipend, so money is not an issue to do it.

Our son had 9 appointments this week and have 14 hours of foster training Thurs/Fri. My husband and I actually work full time and are pretty much working an average of 20 hours a week right now with all the appointments, school issues, and emotional trantrums (they last hours at a time) and making up work in the evenings to compensate.

We have a 9 year boy for foster/adopt with Aspergers, complex trauma, PTSD, Emotional Disturbance, Reactive Attachment Issues. His appointments for neuroofeedback are 140 miles RT, twice a week. We are trying a new experimental neurofeedback therapy to control trauma tantrums.

Good for you going to foster and adopt, great to see that...but people do what is best for them and their family, and that is not always domestic adoption.There are many factors to consider and when you get your foster child(ren), you will realize the commitment and care it takes...always wonderful in the end, but hard day to day. Adoptive moms have very valid and sacred reasons to choice their children.

We could not have taken a child with sexual issues (as we have other children) or extensive sibling groups due to room nor were we open to either gender because of emotional issues in our daughter. We were able fortunately this time to take a child that is required to be the  youngest, but not the ones that required them to be the only child. Before that was not an option as we wanted more children. This time we are ok with this being our last. We also required a child that had parental rights removed in court. We could not allow our other adoptive children to deal with bonding and loss unnecessarily.

If we had not proactively found a child in our area with those criteria on AdoptionExchange, we probably would have been asked to be placed with children they needed immediate homes for verses someone who will work within our current family structure. We had to call the social workers every week and reintroduce ourselves for 3 months to get considered for him...I would not really call the domestic process "easy".

I am glad you are going to foster and adopt at some point in the future...but honestly, I would not really hold that firm belief on that "take care of our own" opinion for others until you have done that yourself.

Blessings on your future adoption.






Quoting kitty8199:

When I am in a position where I can I plan on fostering. I've already looked into it. Going through CPS seems pretty easy. House check, background check, talk to friends and family-boom got a kid.



Quoting KellySunshine:

Everyone's choice and method to start and expand a family is a sacred one to them alone. No one can tell you that.

I understand your beliefs though, I wish you much blessing in your own US foster/adoption(s).



Quoting kitty8199:

Yes they do but I feel like people should start at home.





Quoting KellySunshine:

Except the world in significantly more than the US...the agencies are not "manufacturing" children..those pictures are all real children in orphanages. All children in this world are deserving of loving parents....in the US and out.




Quoting kitty8199:

I honestly feel like there are too many kids in foster care to adopt from an agency if she really wants to "save the world". Adopt from foster care in the US.





IsaacRunny
by on Feb. 24, 2012 at 12:03 AM
I am sorry, but I reread this post and while I posted a long comment about adopting domestically, I did not read anywhere that she had a nanny. I wish people would stick with the facts and not interject assumptions and have them suddenly become facts. Bad Mommy, no nanny!
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dusky_rose
by Sue on Feb. 24, 2012 at 12:06 AM

Sounds like an excuse to me, like she doesn't want to have kids because of what it would do to her body, so she made up the selfish excuse.

bellygirl
by on Feb. 25, 2012 at 7:43 PM
Quoting hautemama83:


Hautemama? Do you really think giving birth is a selfish thing to do? Um, it's Gods intention for the human race, to procreate. Now if a statement was made by someone about adopting being an easy way out (with which I don't agree) of going through pregnancy, etc. How well do you think that would have been received? It would be a blood bath. Her husband was so embarrassed that he called and apologized to everyone. YES I'd go toe to toe w/some moran that told me I'm selfish for having my own children. I'd say she's a little on the coo coo side and do are you if you agree with her and was ignorant enough to say it to a room full of mothers that are proud of their biological children.
ChloeDolce
by on Feb. 25, 2012 at 9:03 PM

She DOES have a nanny.  I said that later in replies.  I did not know that when I made the op.  Then in talking to my husband he told me they had a nanny even though the mom herself does not work.  No one is making assumptions.

Quoting IsaacRunny:

I am sorry, but I reread this post and while I posted a long comment about adopting domestically, I did not read anywhere that she had a nanny. I wish people would stick with the facts and not interject assumptions and have them suddenly become facts. Bad Mommy, no nanny!


hautemama83
by Nichole on Feb. 25, 2012 at 9:21 PM
Procreation is in fact a selfish act. We don't procreate because children want to be created LOL. The concept is simple. If someone chooses to believe adoption is an easy way to pass up pregnancy, more power to them. Tbh I'm sure that for some people that is a reason why they opt to adopt. The mere fact you would be willing to go "toe to toe" shows your lack of intellect on the matter. While she may have been a little over board, she's not totally incorrect. Having children is indeed a selfish act.

Quoting bellygirl:

Quoting hautemama83:


Hautemama? Do you really think giving birth is a selfish thing to do? Um, it's Gods intention for the human race, to procreate. Now if a statement was made by someone about adopting being an easy way out (with which I don't agree) of going through pregnancy, etc. How well do you think that would have been received? It would be a blood bath. Her husband was so embarrassed that he called and apologized to everyone. YES I'd go toe to toe w/some moran that told me I'm selfish for having my own children. I'd say she's a little on the coo coo side and do are you if you agree with her and was ignorant enough to say it to a room full of mothers that are proud of their biological children.
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KellySunshine
by on Feb. 26, 2012 at 5:25 PM

Ok, there is no higher calling in adopting domestically than international period.I saw this reemerge as a theme.

I saw that resurface. I have done both, and we certainly, as a family, do not viewing doing one over the other as anything to brag or feel "good" about.

Those of you who feel it is....well you are highly misinformed.

Many of the quotes talking about US kids starving,destitute, and needing homes...yes, they all need homes...and no, they are not starving or destitute.

If you see a child starving in the US, they are not in the foster care system and certainly then not considered available for adoption.

If they are getting dental and medical care every 6 months, medication thereapy marked on a sheet to make sure they are receiving it, expensive therapies paid that is not covered by insurance worth thousands of dollars, three social care visits a month to make sure they are healthy, and their room checked each time to make sure they are safe....if that is the case, then they are available for adoption.

Yes all orphaned children need a home. The children in foster care that are actually AVAILABLE for adoption are not freezing, starving, or lacking any type of medical care.

As I said, there is no "HIGHER" calling in domestic verses international adoption.

Unfortunately, many orphans in other countries are not as fortunate.





dixiemom3
by on Feb. 27, 2012 at 9:37 AM

Yeah but even Angelina Jolie has had biological children!!

Quoting Mrs.VanDeKamp:

She just wants to be the next angelina jolie lol


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