Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

The CafeMom Newcomers Club The CafeMom Newcomers Club

*christian post* please explain the blind follow regarding homosexuality in these verses

Posted by   + Show Post

I am going to post 3 verses, and then what version it is from. I'd like to hear from the conservative christians why you think the meanings of this verse is okay to change, and why you would trust something changed durastically for one's agenda.

NO FIGHTING

KJV

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

NKJV

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,a]" style="">[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

American Standard


Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with man,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

New American Standard

Or A)" style="">do you not know that the unrighteous will not B)" style="">inherit the kingdom of God? C)" style="">Do not be deceived; D)" style="">neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor a]" style="">[a]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, willE)" style="">inherit the kingdom of God. 11  F)" style="">Such were some of you; but you were G)" style="">washed, but you wereH)" style="">sanctified, but you were I)" style="">justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

NIV

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? A)" style="">Do not be deceived: B)" style="">Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers C)" style="">nor men who have sex with mena]" style="">[a] D)" style="">10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers E)" style="">will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. F)" style="">But you were washed, G)" style="">you were sanctified, H)" style="">you were justified I)" style="">in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Please explain the blind following? Please note, all 3 versions that speak of homosexuality are new versions.

by on Aug. 2, 2012 at 10:44 AM
Replies (21-30):
kansasmom1978
by on Aug. 2, 2012 at 11:51 AM

All of those are against homosexuality. It says that men have sex with men are wrong doers. Homosexuals won't inherit God's kingdom. 

CABZS
by Ruby Member on Aug. 2, 2012 at 11:58 AM
3 moms liked this

Sorry I am not your traditional Christian so I can't answer you.

I replied yesterday in another post & now can't find it a break down of many of the verses in the bible & how people are taking them wrong.  Wish I could find it now:(

But my other issue is that Jesus never spoke out against homosexuality himself & none of the gospels speak out against it.

Even if it is a sin we have no right to take equality & rights away from anyone, we are in a country full of different beliefs, free to believe differently. Our beliefs should not dictate someone elses life!

momtoBrenna
by Silver Member on Aug. 2, 2012 at 12:06 PM
Quoting mitty18:




Well, we can agree to disagree. I don't believe that the bible is the true word of God. I believe it is the word of the men who wrote it and strictly reflects the ideals of the time periods in which it was written. I also strongly believe that is has been mistranslated and misinterpreted many times over to the point that it has no resemblance to the original versions.
happymommy1105
by Platinum Member on Aug. 2, 2012 at 12:10 PM
I'm pretty sure that somebody already has the job of "defender of the bible" and that being does not reside on earth......

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
CABZS
by Ruby Member on Aug. 2, 2012 at 12:15 PM
1 mom liked this

I wish people would stop using the bible! There are many questions & interpretations in it & much we don't know. Not to mention, Christianity isn't what this country was built on. It was built on freedom of religion, freedom, wanting equality, yet so many seem to forget that! The bible does NOT make it clear. Also, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality & neither do the gospels or the commandments for that matter.

Third, the Biblical arguments against same-sex marriage are not proffered from texts that deal with marriage, but from texts that purportedly deal with same-sex orientation. Same-sex marriage is rejected as un-Christian and immoral on the basis of a myopic reading of a very few Biblical texts. And the texts in question are scant indeed. The most referenced texts are Genesis 19; the holiness codes of Leviticus 17-26, and in the New Testament, Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians 6:9 and his Letter to the Romans 1:26-27. Not only does one have to "hunt" for references to same-sex practices, but there are no gospel texts that treat the matter. There is nothing attributed to Jesus of Nazareth that has anything to do with same-sex orientation. According to the gospels, Jesus never commented on same-sex practices; that fact certainly bears repeating to anyone criticizing the gay community on Christian grounds. Largely, same-sex practice is a topic of little interest to the Biblical authors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-jefferson/bible-gay-marriage_b_886102.html

Genesis 19:4-9 "...all the men from every part of the city, both young and old, surrounded the house. They called to Lot, ‘Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.’ Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, ‘No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.’ ‘Get out of our way,’ they replied. And they said, ‘This fellow came here as an alien and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.’"

The traditional interpretation: Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality

The contextual interpretation: First, we must remember that God had already decided to destroy Sodom before this incident took place. Second, it’s not likely that the mob which gathered at Lot's house - every single man in the city - were all homosexuals. We also have to ask ourselves why Lot would try to distract them with his virgin daughters (a reprehensible act, indeed) if they were. So we cannot simply assume that they were motivated by homosexual desire. What this story most likely suggests is that the men of the city regarded these two strangers with suspicion - perhaps they thought they were spies who had been taken in by Lot, himself an outsider. They were determined to humiliate these strangers in the way common to that time and area, by "treating them like women," by brutally raping them. In much the same manner today, new inmates are introduced to prison hierarchy. Sodom's sins are enumerated in Ezekiel 16:49, Luke 10:12 and Jude 7 as inhospitality, greed, pride, haughtiness, refusal to help the poor, and unspecified sexual immorality. It is ironic that this story which condemns a city for its mistreatment of the poor, the stranger, is used to condemn another vulnerable group - homosexuals.

Leviticus 18:22, 20:13 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable…If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

The traditional interpretation: Sex between two men is a sin punishable by death.

The contextual interpretation: This command to the former Israelite slaves seems quite straightforward. Yet we must remember that it was a command made specifically to the Israelite nation. Many of the other Levitical commands, including those about sexual sins, seem to be in the context of ensuring and emphasizing that the Israelites were to be different from the pagan idolaters, both those they had known in Egypt and those they would be living among in Palestine. Leviticus 18:3 says, "You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices." Leviticus 19:19 forbids mating two different kinds of animals, planting a field with two different kinds of seeds and wearing clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:27 forbids men to cut the hair at the sides of their head or clip the edges of their beard. Leviticus 11-15 contains many laws and regulations concerning ceremonial uncleanness – laws which were broken by Jesus when he touched lepers, dead people, and the woman with a discharge of blood. The injunction against two men lying together immediately follows the command against sacrificing one's children to the heathen god, Molech. We can conclude that God did not want His people to practice the many perverted or detestable kinds of behavior common in the pagan nations around them which were often associated with lascivious temple fertility rites in which worshippers had sex with as many people as possible, regardless of their family relationship or sex. They believed this would bring blessings on their crops and livestock. No doubt these practices were what made idolatry such a temptation to the Israelites. As for the death penalty required for men who lie together, the same penalty was required for anyone who cursed his father or mother, for those who committed adultery, for a man who married his sister, etc. There is no indication that those involved in homosexual sex as part of their idol worship did so because of the kind of orientation we recognize today.

Romans 1:25-27 "They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

The traditional interpretation: Women having sex with women and men having sex with men is called shameful lust and will be punished.

The contextual interpretation: The point Paul is making in Romans 1-2 is that all people, whether pagan or Christian, Jew or Gentile, have sinned and stand in need of God’s grace. His condemnation here is directed at pagan idolaters, people who have refused to acknowledge and glorify God and have turned to worshipping images of the things God has made. They have given up their natural desire for the opposite sex and turned to an unbridled search for lustful, sexual pleasure. Their lives are full of covetousness, malice, envy, strife, slander, disrespect for parents, pride, and hatred of God (see verses 1-31). Jews, on the other hand, had been given God’s law but were guilty of breaking it and, even worse, of judging the pagans. Paul uses the example of sexual perversion, knowing his readers will immediately identify it as an act of pagan idol worship. He speaks of women exchanging natural relations for unnatural ones and men abandoning natural relations with women in an obvious reference to heterosexual behavior, since what is natural for heterosexuals is not natural for homosexuals. No doubt there are heterosexual people today who engage in gay sex simply because they are lusting for a new kind of pleasure, to whom this text may apply. But most gay, lesbian and bisexual people who have grown up as Christians have struggled for long years against their same-sex attractions and have tried their best to love and serve God. Paul's description simply does not apply to them.

1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (KJV) "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV)

1 Timothy 1:9, 10 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; (KJV) "We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine (NIV)

The traditional interpretation: Homosexuals will not go to heaven.

The contextual interpretation: Paul uses two Greek words, malakoi and arsenokoitai, that have been translated various ways, often reflecting contemporary understandings. Malakoi literally means "soft or woman-like" and most often referred to those who were rich, lazy decadent, self-indulgent or lacking in courage. The KJV translates this word as effeminate, and probably refers to male prostitutes who painted their faces and wore soft clothes to attract both male and female clients. If they served male clients, they were also considered effeminate because they played the "receptive" role of women. Arsenokoitai is made up of two Greek words - arseno, meaning "male" and koitai meaning "bedder." It is only found twice in the Bible and this is the first use of it found in literature generally. In subsequent Greek writings over the first six centuries arsenokoitai is usually found in a list of sins similar to Paul's. In these lists it is adjacent to words with an economic connection, such as robber, swindler, thief, etc. In the Corinthians verse quoted above it is followed by "thief" and in the Timothy verse it is followed by "slave-trader." If it is a sexual term, why is it in these lists? Could it be referring to a pimp, who profits from selling the services of male prostitutes? Or might it refer to a man who pays for the services of a prostitute? Although we cannot be absolutely sure what is meant here, these words obviously refer to a specific kind of homosexual behavior, so we cannot generalize from these verses that all homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.

http://someone-to-talk-to.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57:10-does-the-bible-say&catid=34:faqs&Itemid=41

Quoting kansasmom1978:

All of those are against homosexuality. It says that men have sex with men are wrong doers. Homosexuals won't inherit God's kingdom. 


mitty18
by on Aug. 2, 2012 at 12:17 PM
Agree to disagree :-)

Quoting momtoBrenna:

Quoting mitty18:






Well, we can agree to disagree. I don't believe that the bible is the true word of God. I believe it is the word of the men who wrote it and strictly reflects the ideals of the time periods in which it was written. I also strongly believe that is has been mistranslated and misinterpreted many times over to the point that it has no resemblance to the original versions.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
dandylynes
by Gold Member on Aug. 2, 2012 at 12:26 PM
1 mom liked this

I can't explain it myself, but I can say I have a dislike for Paul who has corrupted some of Jesus'  teachings.

momtoBrenna
by Silver Member on Aug. 2, 2012 at 12:27 PM
Quoting mitty18:




Done and done. I respect everyone's right to their belief systems, I simply cannot respect hate in any form. I equate supporting gay hate groups to supporting the KKK, and anti-Muslim, anti-Christianity groups, etc., they're all wrong and hate is never the answer.
MicheleJM
by Platinum Member on Aug. 2, 2012 at 12:29 PM


Quoting mitty18:

Different versions, different translations. you'd have to do some research into what the original greek words were and their meanings.

this.  What exactly does abusers of themselves with mankind mean? It could mean anything from homosexuality to masturbation to promiscuity.

MicheleJM
by Platinum Member on Aug. 2, 2012 at 12:34 PM
1 mom liked this

 

Quoting dandylynes:

I can't explain it myself, but I can say I have a dislike for Paul who has corrupted some of Jesus'  teachings.

Thank you!  Paul meant well but in some ways I think he had his own agenda.  I also think he bent his word depending on the culture he was preaching to.  Let's face it he wanted non-gentiles into the religion, otherwise christians would be eating kosher and circ our boys.  I think Jesus wanted his followers to follow the Jewish way.  His words and actions certainly support that idea.

Jesus didn't care, he was the leader. You don't like his word, then you're free to leave. Paul was also a leader but I also think he was part politician.

Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)