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Moms counseled to sign contact veto at relinquishment?

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Never fails that adoption policy can still shock and outrage me
But it blew my socks off again to hear this

My state will allow adoptees born in 2000 and after full access to their OBC at 21.
Good. Most are open adoptions nowadays anyways- no big deal right?
I've been thinking all along that at least these new adoptees won't have any problems getting 'theirs" and FINALLY the legislators are getting it. At least for some...

NOT so much. I learned yesterday that Mothers are being counseled to sign contact vetos AT RELINQUISHMENT! Gasp! If there is a contact veto- NO OBC for these kids.
WTH? I do get that a small number of relinquishing mothers would choose a closed adoption.
But isn't no identify shared between A & B parents enough? Do these asswipe SW's inform the Moms that at anytime- they can rescind the veto? I don't trust them to do so.
And I can't believe the #%£¥* agencies have come up with this shady solution.

When will they give up those secrets and lies- forever and for all?
Rrrgh
by on Jan. 29, 2013 at 5:21 AM
Replies (41-49):
Cedartrees4
by Silver Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 12:25 AM
1 mom liked this



Quoting drfink:

 .... For 17 years the agency lied to me when I called after he was an adult.Something seemed off so when I met the adoption professional due to help from this group...love birthmom group forever....she intervened and the next day the agency emailed me he had looked 17 years earlier and left his ok.He didn't have any siblings and had always wanted siblings.He is thrilled to have siblings.Even his parents were angry because my youngest are 15 and 16 ,had the agency followed up with what they told me and his aparents my oldest would have been in his youngest siblings life from the day they were born.

All of this would be moot if there were open obc for all adult adoptees.

And open ABC's for natural parents too.  :)

vampporcupine
by Silver Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 1:50 AM
2 moms liked this
"Now I ask, why don;t more birth parents come to my agency?"

That would be a cold day in hell before I walked into a place that KIDNAPPED my baby to beg and play nice to try and get a crumb to fall from their lap. That lawyer bitch can burn in hell for the evil shit she did to me.
Most mothers I know either don't know to go to the scene of the crime for answers, were told they'd be arrested if they looked or are like me and would never step near the place which destroyed my entire life.
If you were raped, would you go to your rapists house? My guess is no.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
adopteeme
by Bronze Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 4:20 AM
Quoting drfink:



What they did to you and your son is despicable, just evil!
You followed the rules in their game to keep you apart and protected.
I really wonder how many other families gave up too soon when begging and crying and pleading yielded "I can't - it's against the law". And then they turn head to the other party who's ALSO there and repeat.
I don't know how you've kept your cool.
In my daydreams, I go back to my agency with my Mom, give each of them the bird. Spin like the tazmanian devil in anger with cuss words flying and I kick my SW in the shin before I leave.
Then return to the hospital I was born and walk out the front door WITH my Mom. The way it was susposed to be.

I hope that when (and it will) legislation to open comes to your state that you & son and his ap's share your story. Let them know how closed and sealed and mutual consent DOES. NOT. WORK!

...and they really expect us to come back to them for the privilege of exchanging our info willingly when they are the brick walls? Stop playing games with us!
Ms.KitKat
by Bronze Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 8:00 AM

 The relinquishment is a sealed record. There are no public records.

Quoting adopteeme:

MsKitKat
Does your agency or lawyer do a notice of adoption relinquishment in the legal notice section of a regular daily newspaper?
It can contain the complete names of the birth parents, the names of adoption attorneys / law firms for the birth parents, the parents of the adoptee, case and file numbers, adoption agencies, maternity homes, Social Services case workers, and other significant information. 

How do (they) tell us it's about protecting birthparent privacy- and they've put all the details out into the public for ALL to see?

Can you tell your clients to look for these notices without jeopardizing your position?

 

Ms.KitKat
by Bronze Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 8:08 AM

 I honestly do not know what to say. I would only hope that any client I worked with does not feel this level of hatred and anger toward me. To say that I kidnapped a child, that I have a power trip? These are very harsh things.

Your social worker told you, you would be arrested? 

(Lawyers are a whole 'nother breed so I won't be going 'there"!)

It pains me to know that you have these feelings. and for me to think my clients feel this way toward me- that is a lot.  

Quoting vampporcupine:

"Now I ask, why don;t more birth parents come to my agency?"

That would be a cold day in hell before I walked into a place that KIDNAPPED my baby to beg and play nice to try and get a crumb to fall from their lap. That lawyer bitch can burn in hell for the evil shit she did to me.
Most mothers I know either don't know to go to the scene of the crime for answers, were told they'd be arrested if they looked or are like me and would never step near the place which destroyed my entire life.
If you were raped, would you go to your rapists house? My guess is no.

 

Ms.KitKat
by Bronze Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 8:18 AM

 I can not tell you where I work. I have reviewed the laws and licensing regulations and that is all I have. Please know, I will be contacting my Licensing office and speaking with my contact person about this in more detail. I will give her this information and seek her advice and guidance.

You mention the "whole thought of adoption may be too traumatizing" Then how can I, knowing this, create a whole new potential crisis by doing a cold call?  I do not know that person's state of mind or emotional status and they may be miles and miles away from me. There would be no way for me to mitigate a potential crisis and obtain help for that person if they are say suicidal.

In regards to ANN, Ann was before my time. My only guess, and I am hoping for the best, is that post-surrender counsling was offered. Most women, as I have mentioned before, rarely if ever follow-up and actually particpate in ths.

Quoting Cedartrees4:

Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 The state laws only allow non-id information. ...When a birth parent comes looking for information about the child she placed and there is no release on file from the adult adoptee, I can only provide non-id info, by LAW.

Being able to only provide non-ID information does not preclude direct contact.  I am familiar with some adoption laws, not all, but some, as I have worked on open records campaigns in several jurisdictions, an have searched and done first-contact services in several others.  Unless there is a law specifically outlawing contacting an adoptee, then it is not forbidden.  For example, Ontario had closed records laws until very recently where only non-ID info could be released, and it was.  However, the ADR could STILL contact one party on behalf of the other party.  These searches were (and are) done all the time.  Volunteer seach angels, and private investigators did many searches.  It violated no law.

There is also a difference in many state/provincial laws between birth records and adoption case files.  I'd need to know the specific wording of the laws of your state.  Here in BC for example, open records deals with the OBC and ABC receivable from Vital Statistics (Ministry of Health)  Even if this record is closed, if there is a veto on the file, anyone who is affected by the adoption can request via Freedom of Information (to the Ministry of Children and Family Development) the records in their adoption file even if it were an agency adoption (indentifying information removed).


When a birth parent comes looking for information about the child she placed and there is no release on file from the adult adoptee, I can only provide non-id info, by LAW. I try to get around this by offering the birthparent that I will attempt to contact the adoptive parents for updated information on the child. Yes, I know, the child is sometimes already an adult. I know they can act as the gatekeepers. I know this is infantalizing of the adult adopted child. My hands are tied by LAW

Sorry, I'm not seeing this law being relevant.  I guess I need more information about your specific state.  A law allowing the release of only non-ID info does NOT preclude a search and direct contact with the adopted person.   The adoptee is not in productive custody, nor do they have  a restraining order filed.  They are a person, a citizen with the right of Freedom of Association which in its most basic form means the freedom to chose to (contact and) associate, or not associate, with any other person.  You have this right as well.


Quote:

I go to the a-parents because I figure the agency had a relationship with them from the start. Hopefully, a positive one and this can be my foot in their door. These records are 20+ years old and unbelievably not very good at that! The little hand written notes in margins or scrawled across pieces of random torn off sheets of lined paper? I typcially do not have a lot to work with! The adoption record is sealed and I would violate the LAW by opening records.

Is the adoptive name of the adult adoptee on file?

Why don; they come forward and give their permission to be contacted themselves.

Because they may not know it is an option, they may be afraid of hurting their adoptive parents, they may not even know which agency handled the adoption, they're scared of rejection, the whole thought of adoption may be too traumatizing to them and thus they "block it out," etc. 


Now I ask, why don;t more birth parents come to my agency?

Easily answered ... fear of rejection by the adoptee or the mother's current family, not knowing they can, being told it is illegal for a natural mother to search,  plus the surrender may have been traumatic for them and they may hold a large amount of anger at your agency for it.  If you had not told them about the long-term psychological risks and they are experiencing these then they may feel betrayed that your agency withheld this information.   :(   Frankly, I personally can't go past the local adoption agency without feeling intensely traumatized with flashbacks due to PTSD -- I avoid that block of the city.  Other mothers do as well -- avoiding the agency, the hospital -- anything that might be triggering.  We just can't go there -- it is too traumatizing.  Do you know how many mothers suffer from PTSD?  That's because even if a mother during her pregnancy was made to believe it was "her decision," often times it was not, because there were external factors which made her feel she could not (or should not) keep her baby. :( 

 

I keep encouaging Ann to send in pictures of herself and her children; to write a letter explaining why she placed her child. She never does.

I can easily see this.  What type of post-surrender counselling has Ann had regarding the surrender of her child?   Just curious because this is very relevant to the topic of a letter.   If you ask her to write a letter about "why she placed her child" and if she did not "place her child" but felt forced to surrender and is unable to put words to this, then she will be unable to write this letter.   Sometimes mother like Ann take years before they are able to voice what they actually feel, because they have never been told that could have been anything other than them "placing" or "their decision."  Just as you were unaware of coercion, they could be too -- even if they felt coerced they may never know how to put it in words as there is no validation of their emotions and experience. 

Would I have been able to write a letter to my son saying "why I placed him"?  Even if it meant seeing his sooner?  It would have been impossiblea as I never felt I had "placed him."  I am certain though that this is what the social worker saw the situation as being, as "placing."  I felt I had no other option but the only word I was told about was "choice" and this didn't fit.   It was only when I read Joss Shawyer's book "Death By Adoption" a couple years later that I finally had the words to describe how i felt.  Maybe this could be Ann's situation as well?  That a "why she placed" letter won't work? 

 

Ms.KitKat
by Bronze Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 8:23 AM

 I am sorry. Your story is not new to me. I have heard this before in another agency I worked for. I would open a file to see there was a letter and request for contact sitting there for years and I'm the one left holding the bag and taking the blame for incompetancy.

I will look into putting a letter as you mention together. 

Quoting drfink:

 

Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 

Quoting adopteeme:

MsKitKat
It's not hard to locate people anymore with the details you would have on the adoptee. Name, dob Are you only using the address of the ap's at the time of the adoption as a means for contact?

 Yes, that is the only address I am allowed to use.

 Interesting ,even in my state agencies are allowed to look for current addresses.My son was 35 and hadn't lived at home since shortly after graduating from college.He lives in a different city from his aparents ,it is where his job is located.They sent it directly to him.The adoption professional and the agency professional read me the non discript letter asking if he had a connection with xxxx agency in xxxx.If interested please contact xxxxx.Not exact but more or less.They do more or less the same with birth parents.

This is due to the laws .My agency actually didn't keep track of our requests.From the year he was born...I was locked away in a religious maternity home that ignored I was legally an adult,18, and followed my mom's wishes....I left my contact info every year around his birthday.When my sis got older I left hers as a back up.When he was younger it was for any reason his aparents might want.As an adult it was in case he wanted contact.When he was 18 he contacted the agency to ask had I left contact and to leave his o.k. For 17 years the agency lied to me when I called after he was an adult.Something seemed off so when I met the adoption professional due to help from this group...love birthmom group forever....she intervened and the next day the agency emailed me he had looked 17 years earlier and left his ok.He didn't have any siblings and had always wanted siblings.He is thrilled to have siblings.Even his parents were angry because my youngest are 15 and 16 ,had the agency followed up with what they told me and his aparents my oldest would have been in his youngest siblings life from the day they were born.

All of this would be moot if there were open obc for all adult adoptees.

 

adopteeme
by Bronze Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 10:59 AM

 Here in Maryland, several people have spent hours and hours at microfishe archiving our local city papers- and we have found these legal notices.  In FULL public view


Quoting Ms.KitKat:

 The relinquishment is a sealed record. There are no public records.

Quoting adopteeme:

MsKitKat
Does your agency or lawyer do a notice of adoption relinquishment in the legal notice section of a regular daily newspaper?
It can contain the complete names of the birth parents, the names of adoption attorneys / law firms for the birth parents, the parents of the adoptee, case and file numbers, adoption agencies, maternity homes, Social Services case workers, and other significant information. 

How do (they) tell us it's about protecting birthparent privacy- and they've put all the details out into the public for ALL to see?

Can you tell your clients to look for these notices without jeopardizing your position?

 


 

adopteeme
by Bronze Member on Feb. 4, 2013 at 11:01 AM

 see if this link works

http://mgahouse.maryland.gov/House/Play/f6b9e7d9965a4415aad992bbc1cd0afd1d?catalog=03e481c7-8a42-4438-a7da-93ff74bdaa4c


Quoting adopteeme:

Quoting doodlebopfan:

 Where did you learn that they are asking them to sign the veto at birth? Am I misreading the above? I'm guessing that anyone born in 2000 is 13 are younger in age at this point, and can they really sign a veto at this age? Is this something the AP's sign for the adoptee? So birth parents are given the change to choose a closed adoption with the option of rescinding the veto and asking for contact at anytime in the future?


It does seem like a game of "cat & mouse" could go on FOREVER if both kept signing and rescinding the veto at opposite times. :(  




The agencies have been telling moms to sign a contact veto at relinquishment. 2000 forward. These kids won't get to request their OBC's until they are 21. 2021.
So now they have something in writing that (promises) moms that don't want to be found their privacy/confidentially whatever. They are testifying against our bill that originally covered everyone- with removing contact vetos and allowing these people that do not want to be found to attach a contact preference. Yes I want contact - no I don't want contact- or contact through an intermediary. Our bill says either way records are released and you get heads up to the other parties wishes. They 'can't go back on the promise' now with a document....

So the bill has been amended to only cover adoptions from 1947 when the records were sealed until dec 31, 1999.
IT SUCKS that if this passes we still have people left behind.

Leg hearings with public testimony are now taped for viewing. It's on something called mediasite. I d/l the app but can't figure out how to work it to try and share.


 

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