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40ish and beyond... 40ish and beyond...

Our 23 yr old daughter went to her dad's for dinner last night, planning to spend some quality time with him. Instead - big surprise - he yelled at her for taking out a student loan to pay for school. Apparently despite the fact that she changed her address to my house (since this is where she lives), the college didn't update her records and sent her loan paperwork to his house (which she put as her permanent address when she first enrolled as a freshman, since she was initially living in a dorm, and then later various apartments; she needed a "real" physical address. Her dad opened the student loan paperwork and pitched a fit, even though he hasn't been helping her with tuition, didn't offer this time around, and then in the same freakin' breath  told her she needs to go for a master's degree.  So let's get this straight:  she is somehow supposed to magically come up with tuition and living expenses for 2 more years - but she can't borrow it?! And yet he's demanding she go to grad school?! And  he didn't offer her any other solution or financial assistance  to pay for it!  Add to that the fact that he completely controls money she inherited from HIS dad that was supposed to be for her education, but that her father, as executor of his father's estate, initially set up so she couldn't access it unitl she's 26, and last night he informed her he changed the terms and  she can't have it until she's 31! She figures she'll never get that money; but how can he keep it from her?! He's such a controlling a$$! Is his need to control his daughter  more important than having a good relationship with his adult girl?! His need to control is apparently an addiction; I hoped and prayed he was a better person since getting involved with his new GF, but apparently it's all an act. He was SO good at hiding who he was around HIS family and around people at church while we were married, and since I'm no longer available as his favorite target to manipulate and control, his oldest daughter is next in line - and OMG do I feel guilty? You bet I do!

by on Oct. 4, 2012 at 5:06 AM
Replies (11-20):
LFosterfarm
by on Oct. 4, 2012 at 6:59 AM

 I don't she needs him, he doesn't know how to be a father!

Quoting wishbearmom:

But by leaving him, I left him without a target, so he is now using our oldest daughter. I am feeling tremendous guilt and responsibility : (  Oh, and as I mentioned, I HATE this - all of it! It wasn't fair to me, it SO isn't fair to her. She needs her dad - but she doesn't need his manipulative BS!!

Quoting LFosterfarm:

 I'm just going to say it!  she deserves to be in control of her own life, not some jerk who claims to be her father controlling her every move.  she doesn't have to be a part of his life nor him hers.  The fact that he is her father is just that it's a fact, we call them sperm donors!  You know and I know a real FATHER wouldn't not do that to his wife, ex or not, and children!  I really so no reason why she deserves to have a relationship with him??

Quoting wishbearmom:

He IS toxic - SO not how a dad should behave! I've tried to stay out of it, but OMG, why can't he treat her like an adult? Either accept that she needed a student loan (and know she's a responsible ADULT and will pay it off as soon as she graduates and gets a job), or man up and give (NOT LOAN!) her the money and then shut up?! She didn't ask because she knew he wouldn't help and he'd still lecture and make her feel guilty. She did her homework and came up with the solution ON HER OWN. I think that's what galls him the most. He craves control, and this time she didn't consult him. Boo Hoo. He's going to lose her completely, though if he doesn't back off and allow their relationship to mature into adult child - adult parent. He wouldn't even let ME be an adult in the marriage though. I'm afraid for her. She deserves a relationship with her dad - but she also deserves to be respected. I don't know if he can do that though, and it makes me sad.

Quoting LFosterfarm:

 At this point she is going to have to know when enough is enough, he keeps moving the inheritance age, blah blah blah, yes I get he's her father, but he sounds toxic!!  I mean what can he really hold over her head, he's basically taken the money away, and at this rate, she'll never see it anyway, so why put up with a grown man manipulating and treating you as if you were two years old again?  she doesn't!!!  You need to help her see that, father or not, and some father's in my opinion were not meant to be fathers, I have one of them!


 


 

wishbearmom
by Ruby sister on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:00 AM

But if a bolt of lightning struck him ... I'm sorry! I am a mom, and I hate to see any of my kids  - including my adult children - hurting so!!

LFosterfarm
by on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:03 AM

 don't feel guilty for something you absolutely no control over!  and yes she may be smart but what people seem to forget is just because there is a blood tie there doesn't necessarily mean she should have a relationsip with him.  If he treated you this way and is now treating her this way, what on god's green earth do you think would make him change his ways?  he's already figured out she doesn't want to live him, but she still chooses to have a relationship that it seems is only hurting her more!  and YOU!

Quoting wishbearmom:

Honestly Lyz, she's smart. I don't need to say anything. If anything, I need to encourage her to see him for who he truly is and still not cut him off or do anything she'll regret. She needs to be strong and tell him she wants a relationship but not on based on manipulation and control. Then if they're estranged, it will be totally on him - and honestly, I don't think that even that a-hole is stupid enough to completely cut ties with his girl over money and control. She just needs to learn from my mistakes and be strong and smart. I was always cowering in the corner. She CAN and needs to gain the upper hand. She's chosen to live with me as an adult, which sticks in his craw (when once she turned 18 and we were still together, she moved OUT, first into a dorm, using her scholarship, then to an apt with a roommate, and then to a college operated apt complex, and finally to a duplex before moving in with me - BECAUSE of her jerk of a dad's controlling ways!!).  He's trying to punish her for never wanting to live with him once she had a choice - but he's apparently never tried to analyze why that is.

Quoting LFosterfarm:

 then help her see the light!!!  don't bash him or say mean brutal (true) things about him but she is old enough to hear what needs to be said before you loose her to the dark side! lol

Quoting wishbearmom:

You've made a good point Lyz. I don't know if their dad can even take enough of a step back to see that he's assimilated traits of his own dad or if he can see just how controlling and manipulative he is. ON THE OTHER HAND, why wouldn't he have been at least a little reflective when his wife of 25 years left him because of his controlling and emotionally abusive behavior (which she TRIED to discuss with him, but it fell on deaf ears)?! And OMG - why is he trying to set up his oldest daughter to fail at graduating from college when she's one quarter away but needing to finance that one quarter. Where is there shame in taking out a student loan (especially when her jerk of a father will neither step up and pay for it outright nor release inheritance from grandparents who intended the money FOR their education?!)  Her only other option was to cash in her 401K and take the penalty - and OMG that would have landed her CPA father in the ICU coronary unit! Money doesn't fall out of the sky. In fact, in the 25 years we were married, he pretended we were destitute (he hid all financial information from me by banking online,  leaving bank statements unopened and locking them in his desk drawer, withholding the checkbook and our bank balance from me, giving me a very small allowance for gas and groceries as though I was in grade school..) I wasn't his wife or an equal partner. I was his control fix, and now that he can't control me, he's using our oldest daughter as a substitute, and it's oh so very WRONG!

Quoting LFosterfarm:

 well the boy controls his own life, and you can't tell me he doesn't see the control and manipulation!  Your daughter is seeing it but doesn't have the ...............backbone? to walk away, idk, but they each will have to put down their own foot and stand up for themselves, and your youngest has to deal with his shit till she's old enough to see better as well.  and sadly untill she's 18 you have to deal with him too.  I think it has so inindated him that every aspect of his life is about the control and manipulation and hard to say really if he even sees it himself!


 


 

LFosterfarm
by on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:04 AM

 which is how it's supposed to be!  you are the parent, do you think he sees this?  probly not!  he can't see past his nose inspite of his face, know what I mean?

Quoting wishbearmom:

But if a bolt of lightning struck him ... I'm sorry! I am a mom, and I hate to see any of my kids  - including my adult children - hurting so!!

 

LFosterfarm
by on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:11 AM
1 mom liked this

 ok, I'm going to give it to you this way, I think we've had enough conversations now to just lay it on the line for you, I care about you, and your family, it's hard when I see a sister hurting!

I have a very very toxic father, believe it or not, he makes your hubby look like a walk in the park!  we won't even start on my ex!  I would walk away come back walk away come back, but in the long run every time I thought he had "changed", it was truely a falacy!!!!  it was all his manipulation and to this day continues, somehow my little sister got sucked back in and can't seem to get away, so between her stressful work/boss, and our father, when I do talk to her she is stressed out of her mind!  He is even seperated from his now wife, and has her believing that there's still a chance, it's sick and pathetic, I finally released all that crap, and moved on.  haven't spoken to the man in almost a year now, and I"m ok with that.  what I'm trying to tell you, help her see the truth so that in the long run he doesn't kill her inside!!!!  it's hard to live with that day after day.  I know!

wishbearmom
by Ruby sister on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:24 AM

Thank you. I want her to be stronger than me, to learn from my mistakes, to truly understand WHY I left. She chose not to live with him (and us, once she had the choice, even before I left). She's smart. I still hope she can have a relationship with her dad without being manipulated by him. Do I know if that's possible? Not really.  She's smart though - way smarter than me - and strong (where I was totally under his thumb from day one). I want to make it all right, but honestly, I think she'll figure it out without my help. But I think she is also right in saying she'll never see that money her grandfather left her. Her dad will hide it from her until his dying day. What a waste of that money, of his emotional energy, and what it will cost him that no dollar amount can make up for!!

Quoting LFosterfarm:

 ok, I'm going to give it to you this way, I think we've had enough conversations now to just lay it on the line for you, I care about you, and your family, it's hard when I see a sister hurting!

I have a very very toxic father, believe it or not, he makes your hubby look like a walk in the park!  we won't even start on my ex!  I would walk away come back walk away come back, but in the long run every time I thought he had "changed", it was truely a falacy!!!!  it was all his manipulation and to this day continues, somehow my little sister got sucked back in and can't seem to get away, so between her stressful work/boss, and our father, when I do talk to her she is stressed out of her mind!  He is even seperated from his now wife, and has her believing that there's still a chance, it's sick and pathetic, I finally released all that crap, and moved on.  haven't spoken to the man in almost a year now, and I"m ok with that.  what I'm trying to tell you, help her see the truth so that in the long run he doesn't kill her inside!!!!  it's hard to live with that day after day.  I know!


LFosterfarm
by on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:29 AM

 I think with people like your ex, my father, it's just so engrained in them, they simply don't know any other way to be or act!!  just my opinion.  we'll keep her in prayer and you too and hope this all works out!!

Quoting wishbearmom:

Thank you. I want her to be stronger than me, to learn from my mistakes, to truly understand WHY I left. She chose not to live with him (and us, once she had the choice, even before I left). She's smart. I still hope she can have a relationship with her dad without being manipulated by him. Do I know if that's possible? Not really.  She's smart though - way smarter than me - and strong (where I was totally under his thumb from day one). I want to make it all right, but honestly, I think she'll figure it out without my help. But I think she is also right in saying she'll never see that money her grandfather left her. Her dad will hide it from her until his dying day. What a waste of that money, of his emotional energy, and what it will cost him that no dollar amount can make up for!!

Quoting LFosterfarm:

 ok, I'm going to give it to you this way, I think we've had enough conversations now to just lay it on the line for you, I care about you, and your family, it's hard when I see a sister hurting!

I have a very very toxic father, believe it or not, he makes your hubby look like a walk in the park!  we won't even start on my ex!  I would walk away come back walk away come back, but in the long run every time I thought he had "changed", it was truely a falacy!!!!  it was all his manipulation and to this day continues, somehow my little sister got sucked back in and can't seem to get away, so between her stressful work/boss, and our father, when I do talk to her she is stressed out of her mind!  He is even seperated from his now wife, and has her believing that there's still a chance, it's sick and pathetic, I finally released all that crap, and moved on.  haven't spoken to the man in almost a year now, and I"m ok with that.  what I'm trying to tell you, help her see the truth so that in the long run he doesn't kill her inside!!!!  it's hard to live with that day after day.  I know!


 

valkay
by faithful sister on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:32 AM
1 mom liked this

 Have her get a lawyer.  Even if it costs her a chunk of her money.  At this point she will get nothing .  I do not think he can change the will

wishbearmom
by Ruby sister on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:36 AM

I think you're right. He knows to some extent that he's doing it when he's being controlling and  manipulative, but he can see any other way, and refuses to acknowledge that it's not right, because that would necessitate change, and in his mind, what he's doing is working for him, so why on earth would he WANT to change?! Is it okay to still vocalize though that I hate him? Incidences like the one last night with Rachel bring all the 25 years of repressed emotional distress back to the surface. I'm sorry!

Quoting LFosterfarm:

 I think with people like your ex, my father, it's just so engrained in them, they simply don't know any other way to be or act!!  just my opinion.  we'll keep her in prayer and you too and hope this all works out!!

Quoting wishbearmom:

Thank you. I want her to be stronger than me, to learn from my mistakes, to truly understand WHY I left. She chose not to live with him (and us, once she had the choice, even before I left). She's smart. I still hope she can have a relationship with her dad without being manipulated by him. Do I know if that's possible? Not really.  She's smart though - way smarter than me - and strong (where I was totally under his thumb from day one). I want to make it all right, but honestly, I think she'll figure it out without my help. But I think she is also right in saying she'll never see that money her grandfather left her. Her dad will hide it from her until his dying day. What a waste of that money, of his emotional energy, and what it will cost him that no dollar amount can make up for!!

Quoting LFosterfarm:

 ok, I'm going to give it to you this way, I think we've had enough conversations now to just lay it on the line for you, I care about you, and your family, it's hard when I see a sister hurting!

I have a very very toxic father, believe it or not, he makes your hubby look like a walk in the park!  we won't even start on my ex!  I would walk away come back walk away come back, but in the long run every time I thought he had "changed", it was truely a falacy!!!!  it was all his manipulation and to this day continues, somehow my little sister got sucked back in and can't seem to get away, so between her stressful work/boss, and our father, when I do talk to her she is stressed out of her mind!  He is even seperated from his now wife, and has her believing that there's still a chance, it's sick and pathetic, I finally released all that crap, and moved on.  haven't spoken to the man in almost a year now, and I"m ok with that.  what I'm trying to tell you, help her see the truth so that in the long run he doesn't kill her inside!!!!  it's hard to live with that day after day.  I know!


 


starlight1968
by 40ish hang out queen on Oct. 4, 2012 at 7:40 AM

 call a lawyer!!!

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