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Divorced muslim women support group

Posted by on Jul. 25, 2010 at 7:49 PM
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Assalamu Alaikum,

It's been a good while since I posted to the board for big changes have gone on in my life this year.  I have posted about my husband and myself before with the last thing being said that I would continue to take care of our kids as he had just got himself a job again and was suppose to get his own place.

Well Allah is the best of planners and most recently things are quite different. The divorce by Islam has taken place (although not by state yet as you have to be living apart for a year), its been 7 wks now and about 2 Mondays ago, we decided to have the kids reside with him and although it is not required, we know our religion recommends that the kids reside with the father. Our kids are 9.5(boy), 6(girl), and 4(girl).

I just dont know what to say at this point...I have been heart broken every day for 2 weeks now, not sleeping in the same house with my kids. I am taking it just as hard as my 4 yr old is. My x-husband is being cold in some ways about it as well which is making me more emotional.

Although I have seen them almost everyday since we no longer reside together b/c I take care of them while their father works and I homeschool them as well....I get up and take care of them at their fathers place. Its just that the hours go so fast now during the day, and once the evening gets there, I bathe the girls and head off. I have heard my 4 yr old cry every time except for one evening.

I had to move back with my mom, who is not muslim, and she is very upset about the whole thing. One of my brothers is as well but I say what I can to cool them down about it. I am 29 going to be 30 in September, in sha Allah and I am scared right now.  I have cried alot and am confused because its like the life I had with my kids is fading away b/c I don't know how long our arrangement like this will last. I have no one to talk to rationally about it as my family members are emotionally biased.

So my question is, are there any support groups for divorced muslim women that you sisters are aware of?

Even if you arent aware of any, any words of wisdom and dua you can make for me would be appreciated.

by on Jul. 25, 2010 at 7:49 PM
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Replies (1-10):
erin7420
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 12:50 AM

 Iam so sorry for your siuation. Maybe Iam wrong, but I thought that the girls stayed with their mom until 7? If you need someone to talk to, Im available, just pm me and I can give you my contact info, insha allah. Do you attend a mosque? They might be able to get you in touch with a support group. You and your children will remain in my duaa's.

qureyus1
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 9:51 AM

Thanks for responding and your offer for contact.

I think the age girls should stay with the mom after a divorce depends on who you ask...I have heard or read ages as low as 2 b/c based off verse in Quran saying the mother in divorce situation would nurse child until 2 but it isnt clear on what happens after that however that is where you go to hadith of the Prophet (SAS) which vary in ages starting from 5 up until 7.

At this point though, my x-husband would not want the girls to live with me at my mom's house and I am not going to fight him on it b/c we have done enough of that for other reasons already. 

As I have to deal with the aftermath, I hope that Allah (SWT) have mercy on me while following His recommendation through the prophet's advisement on custody of kids after divorce even though it is a hard one to bear.  I have made it a habit to ask the kids about their feelings, whether good or bad, about all of this almost everyday.  I don't want the kids to start acting out so I have them write or talk as much as they can, give more hugs, and anything that comes to mind that makes me feel like it would ease this process for us. 

I am less fragile than I was initially b/c as human beings we have to adapt to survive.  I also don't want the kids to think that I left them or me myself feel like I am a bad mom/person, etc.

After the divorce, I was told by Imam at the mosque that if any support I needed later to contact him.  I have not done that b/c I would rather speak to women in general. Just typing right now though is a relief and my heart feels lighter than it did before. :)=

Familyof3
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 9:58 AM
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wait im still not sure why you gave your children to your husband? he needs to house you and your children together and pay your rent and bills until you are able to do so yourself. your girls need you and you need to get them back bc before you know it he is going to remarry and make his new wife "their mother",,, i know in america it hardly happens but when arabs come here from other countries they tend to keep their culture. in islam kids do not go to the father unless the mom is incapable of taking care of them, or if the mother remarries another man. which i wouldnt do that anyway, my kids will remain by me i dont care if i have to go on government assistance for the rest of my life, unless there are drugs involved or the mother is a prostitute, kids are always better off with the mom. good luck with your situation xoxo try to google "muslims support groups" maybe they have one in your area? or possibly a forum. and if not, you can always start your own. start a cafemom group for divorced muslimahs only <3 good luck 

syrianmommy
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 10:18 AM

I do not agree with your children going to your X-husband...In Islam a boy is to stay with his mother until age 7 and a girl until age 9. If the father agrees the girl can stay until age 11. Here are some links talking about that...

http://www.niqabiparalegal.com/archives/2003/05/what_does_islam.php

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/8189  (this says it best i think)

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/family_law/islamic_custody-3.html#80

 

AishaTP
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 10:26 AM

Assalam Alaikum Sister,

I agree with the other sisters. I found this fatwa which also supports the idea that in Islam the children remain with the mother until they reach the age of discernment. I am very sorry for all of the pain that you are enduring at this time. You shouldn't have to go through all of this as a mother. May Allah help you through this most difficult period in your life.

Question about custody of children

My question is about custody of children. I know that if a couple gets divorced than the mother has more right to the children who have not yet reached the age of independence, but if she remarries than the father has more right. My question is if the father of the children does not fulfil his financial responsibility towards the children does he still have the right to take them away from the mother? In the particular situation I am speaking of the man has demonstrated that he is able to provide, because he has remarried and has had a child and is supporting that child, but he is not supporting his two children from the previous marriage. He tells their mother that if she marries again he will take the children, is this right?.

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly: 

One of the matters on which there is scholarly consensus is that the woman is more entitled to custody of the child so long as he has not reached the age of discernment, as the child at that stage needs the kind of compassion and care that only women can give, but this right is forfeited if the woman remarries, because she will be distracted by her new husband from taking care of her child, and because there is a conflict of interest between the child and the new husband. Ibn al-Mundhir (may Allaah have mercy on him) narrated that there was scholarly consensus that the mother’s right to custody is forfeited if she remarries. 

See: al-Kaafi by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr (1/296); al-Mughni (8/194). 

This is indicated by the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr (may Allaah be pleased with him) according to which a woman said: O Messenger of Allaah, my womb was a vessel for this son of mine, and my breasts gave him to drink, and my lap was a refuge for him, but his father has divorced me and he wants to take him away from me. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “You have more right to him so long as you do not remarry.” Narrated by Ahmad (6707) and Abu Dawood (2276); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, and classed as saheeh by Ibn Katheer in Irshaad al-Faqeeh (2/250). 

Secondly: 

Maintenance of children is obligatory upon the father according to scholarly consensus, whether he keeps his wife or divorces her, and whether the wife is poor or rich. So she is not obliged to spend on the children if the father is around. 

If the children are in the custody of a divorced woman, then their father must support them, and the mother who has custody of a child who is still breastfeeding has the right to ask for payment for nursing the child. 

Maintenance of children includes accommodation, food, drink, clothing and education, and everything that the child needs, and is to be based on what is reasonable, paying attention to the husband’s situation, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Let the rich man spend according to his means; and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allaah has given him. Allaah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. Allaah will grant after hardship, ease”

[al-Talaaq 65:7] 

This varies from one country to another and from one person to another. 

If the husband is rich then he must spend according to his wealth, and if he is poor or of moderate means, then he must also spend according to his means. If the parents agree upon a specific amount on money, whether it is great or small, then that is up to them. But in the case of dispute, the one who should decide about that is the qaadi (judge). 

It is permissible for a divorced woman to ask her ex-husband for payment for breastfeeding the child, according to scholarly consensus. 

Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Mughni: (The expenses for) breastfeeding the child are to be borne by the father only, and he has no right to force the mother to breastfeed him if she is divorced, and we know of no difference of opinion concerning that. End quote from al-Mughni (11/430). 

He also said: If the mother asks for payment at the usual rate for breastfeeding him, she is more entitled to that, whether the father finds someone else to breastfeed him for free or not. Al-Mughni (11/431). 

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to payment for breastfeeding, she is entitled to that according to scholarly consensus, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Then if they give suck to the children for you, give them their due payment”

[al-Talaaq 65:6]. 

End quote from al-Fataawa al-Kubra (3/347). 

Thirdly:  

With regard to custody – as defined by a number of scholars – it means taking care of the one who has not reached the age of discernment and cannot live independently, and raising him in accordance with his best interests and protecting him from anything that may harm him. Rawdat al-Taalibeen (9/98). What is meant is taking care of the small child and looking after him. So the main issue of custody is taking care of the interests of the child. Hence if the father refuses to undertake this duty towards the child, which includes maintenance, then he is sinning, and forfeits his right to custody. It says in al-Rawdah al-Murbi’: The child should not stay with one who does not protect him and take care of him, because that is contrary to the purpose of custody. Al-Rawd al-Murbi’ (3/251). 

Ibn Qudaamah al-Maqdisi said: Custody is aimed at looking after the child, so it should not be given in a way that will be detrimental to his welfare and his religious commitment. Al-Mughni (8/190).  

Ibn al-Qayyim said: If we show precedence to one of the parents, we must pay attention to how he looks after the child. Hence Maalik and al-Layth said: If the mother is not in a safe place or she is not of good character, then the father has the right to take the child from her. Similarly in the well known report from him, Imam Ahmad said that it depends on his ability to take care of the child. If he is careless or unable to do that, or is not of good character, or he is immorall and the mother is different from him, then she undoubtedly has more right to take the daughter. Our Shaykh said: If one of the parents fails to educate the boy and raise him in accordance with Islamic teachings, then he is sinning and has no guardianship (wilaayah) over him. Anyone who does not do his duties as a guardian has no guardianship. He should either be dismissed as the guardian and replaced by someone who will do what is required, or someone else should be appointed with him who will do what is required along with him, because the aim is to obey Allaah and His Messenger according to one’s ability. … If the father marries a woman who does not take care of his daughter, and her mother is better able to take care of her than this co-wife, then custody should definitely be given to the mother. Zaad al-Ma’aad (5/424). 

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Sa’di said: But if one of them neglects their duties with regard to custody and care of the child, then he forfeits his guardianship and the other should be appointed instead. Al-Fataawa al-Sa’diyyah (p. 535).  

Based on this, if the father refuses to spend on his children’s maintenance, he forfeits the right to custody, even if his refusal is aimed at hurting the mother. This indicates that he is not to be trusted to take care of his children’s interests. The mother has the right to ask him in court for maintenance of his children. 

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
qureyus1
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 11:10 AM

Well, my x-husband isn't arab LOL however he has thrown that comment about a "new mother "out to me in front of the children no less b/f we were even divorced. When I heard him say that though I let the kids know that they will never have another mother and that if there father remarries they will have another caretaker and for them to call her Ms. so and so,

They even asked me well mom what if daddy makes us call her Mom, I told them just tell their father that by Allah, that lady is not our mother but our caretaker, as she did not give birth to us and hopefully he would listen to them.

In Islam, the kids are recommended based on hadiths by the Prophet (SAS) to go with the father in divorce at a certain age wether the mother remarries OR not HOWEVER if she re-marries then she has to let the kids go definitely unless there is a very good reason they should not go their father. 

I appreciate all of the references to rulings and such but my x-husband would not take that even if it came from the Qu'ran itself.  I tried using quran, hadiths and even contacted an imam to advise us on our rights so I could try and avoid divorce and such more than once but all I got was made to feel worse by him. and by Allah, I know that we were two adults who let it come to this so I am not trying to but sole blame on my x-husband, its just that he had his views and there was no changing it.

Just know that if I did not feel the kids would be more harmed by me pushing for custody I would. One of the main things is that my x-husband feels that if the kids are with the mother, then the father does not owe the mother or kids a dime, he said his own mother did not deserve the maintenance she got from his father for them.  He feels if the man does not have the say over the kids anymore they dont deserve maintenance as well as their mother...and that is not his only thoughts on it, so this would not be easy.  I have fought enough already and just want to have that feeling from my heart be gone.

I also do not want to make the kids lives more confusing or worse.  At least  they are still in the same house they been sleeping in, same backyard, same homeschooling room, etc., I mean they still have some normalness while their mental transition is going from having two parents in the home to one. I hope that doesnt sound like excuses but I just don't wont them to be more scarred than divorce can already make them.

Familyof3
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 11:22 AM

that is not an excuse in my book. where are you from? here in the states women get the kids, and if a man tries to take them against the will of the mother, its kidnapping! if you want your kids back, you call the police and tell them he over powered you and took the kids and brainwashed you into thinking this was the right way. thats called mental abuse. he manipulated you. your kids need you and unless you are incapable of taking care of them, you need to go take them back ASAP! what man in his right mind would throw the wife out of her own house and keep the kids? and then USE you like a nanny? you are being abused and you need to get a lawyer and get that house and those kids back! show them you care and dont show them that their fathers behavior acceptable.


and as far as your husband telling you these things about harming the kids if you fight for them, he is brainwashing you. it is totally bulls$%&t and he is playing you like a violin. my father did it to my mother. get your stuff together woman, and go get those kids! we are all rooting for you!

Quoting qureyus1:

Well, my x-husband isn't arab LOL however he has thrown that comment about a "new mother "out to me in front of the children no less b/f we were even divorced. When I heard him say that though I let the kids know that they will never have another mother and that if there father remarries they will have another caretaker and for them to call her Ms. so and so,

They even asked me well mom what if daddy makes us call her Mom, I told them just tell their father that by Allah, that lady is not our mother but our caretaker, as she did not give birth to us and hopefully he would listen to them.

In Islam, the kids are recommended based on hadiths by the Prophet (SAS) to go with the father in divorce at a certain age wether the mother remarries OR not HOWEVER if she re-marries then she has to let the kids go definitely unless there is a very good reason they should not go their father. 

I appreciate all of the references to rulings and such but my x-husband would not take that even if it came from the Qu'ran itself.  I tried using quran, hadiths and even contacted an imam to advise us on our rights so I could try and avoid divorce and such more than once but all I got was made to feel worse by him. and by Allah, I know that we were two adults who let it come to this so I am not trying to but sole blame on my x-husband, its just that he had his views and there was no changing it.

Just know that if I did not feel the kids would be more harmed by me pushing for custody I would. One of the main things is that my x-husband feels that if the kids are with the mother, then the father does not owe the mother or kids a dime, he said his own mother did not deserve the maintenance she got from his father for them.  He feels if the man does not have the say over the kids anymore they dont deserve maintenance as well as their mother...and that is not his only thoughts on it, so this would not be easy.  I have fought enough already and just want to have that feeling from my heart be gone.

I also do not want to make the kids lives more confusing or worse.  At least  they are still in the same house they been sleeping in, same backyard, same homeschooling room, etc., I mean they still have some normalness while their mental transition is going from having two parents in the home to one. I hope that doesnt sound like excuses but I just don't wont them to be more scarred than divorce can already make them.


2rays0fsun
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Your ex is manipulating you!!! IT's all mind games; all he's doing is trying to make you feel less than your worth. Case in point when he talked about a "new mom." There's only one reason a man would say that to his kids... to hurt you and damage their relationship with you. Same as when he says you fighting for custody will just harm them. Threatening you that he won't pay a dime for his own kids if you don't do things his way!! He's using the kids as pawns. If he truly cared about their wellbeing, he would never think of denying child support wherever they live, and wouldn't say such damaging things to them at an already traumatic time in their life. Forgive me for saying it, but it sounds like you're making excuses for his behavior.. you need to recognize how ugly and selfish he's being right now. The way he's carrying on is doing more harm to your children than anything -- if he wants to talk about scarring -- he's well on his way to emotionally scarring your little ones. Don't let him chase you off mama!!!

wife2ali
by on Jul. 26, 2010 at 8:03 PM

In USA women ALWAYS get custody of the children.  The only way the father gets custody is if  he can prove the mother is unfit.

qureyus1
by on Jul. 27, 2010 at 10:50 AM

Oh I am in the states and as I mentioned b/f, we are divorced in Islam 7 weeks now but not civil by the state b/c you have to be living apart for a year. 

When we got divorced, the custody was never discussed with the Imam.  My x and I just decided this 2 weeks ago and I haven't signed my parental rights or anything like that away...it was just a verbal agreement.

And wow you girls have basically typed exactly how I have felt I was being treated for a long time now...I honestly dont know what to do.  We are both converts and I have no one to mediate with my x-husband for me.   

I don't want to call the police. I just don't want that "system" to get involved b/c, I dont want them to end up calling child services or something.

I see where I have more right to the girls right now as they are ages 4 and 6 but a little less over my son as he is going to be 10 in November.  I feel feel nauseated by the thought of having all that go on when and if things would go my way the kids would be split up with my son possibly remaining with his father b/c he is at the age of discernment.

Should I get the gall to do this, I will contact the imam at the mosque and maybe he could get through to my x-husband. 

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