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Question about when you get a soul in Islam

Posted by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 9:07 PM
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Assalaamu Alaykum. Am I correct in thinking the fetus gets their soul at 4 months gestation which I believe is 16 weeks along? And am I also correct in assuming when the fetus gets a soul it is seen as a human being in Islam and abortion is therefore haraam unless the mother's life is in danger and only after all attempts have been made to save both mother and baby?  Also do unborn children have rights in Islam? 

Now to my main question: If I am correct in thinking the fetus is a human being once it gets the soul at 4 months.... if it dies in its mother's womb before the birth or is still born then it goes to Jinnah automatically correct?  And all children who die after recieving the soul and before they hit puberty (so basically girls before they get their first menses and boys before they get wet dreams which is around 13-14 years old I think, sorry for the TMI) Insha Allah go straight to Jinnah and are not judged by Allah (SWT)?  So if the fetus is miscarried before it gets the soul does it cease to exist like it was never created? I mean if it dies before it gets the soul does it go to Jinnah or what happens?  Any references from Qur'an/Sahih Hadith on this matter?

Another question and I'm sorry for asking all these: I read somewhere online, sorry do not remember where, that children who die before puberty will not go to Jinnah without their parents? Is this true and how does this affect parents who Allah (SWT) decides need to go to Hell for their sins they committed in this life?

by on Feb. 9, 2011 at 9:07 PM
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Replies (1-7):
muhajjirah Group Admin
by on Feb. 10, 2011 at 2:34 AM

asalaamaaliakum warahmat ALLAH saudimommy & welcome to the group. where in saudi do you live? in madinah by chance?! thats where i am so thats why i ask! :)i dont know if anyone here will be able to answer your questions to the extent of the details you want to know, but i can try to bring this to get them addressed at the harram with references from the Quran & Sunnah and get back to you if they aren't answered here inshaAllah. may Allah increase us all in knowledge.


saudimommy
by on Feb. 10, 2011 at 5:26 AM

Walaykumsalaam.  We live in Riyadh.  Insha Allah we may go to visit Mecca and Medina this summer. 

proud2bmom3 Group Owner
by on Feb. 10, 2011 at 12:59 PM

Assalamu alaikum dear sister.

Masha' Allah. so many Questions.. dont' know where to start.. lol.. well. let me start with the easy part... :)  from my very limited knowledge: Abortion is not allowed in any time of gestation unless there is a valid reason for it..  once the soul  is breathed into the fetus , then the only allowed reason for it is if there is a direct danger to the mother's life . some scholars allowed the abortion of a pregnancy resulted from rape. if it were in the very early stages to protect the girl from a life of shame, or hardships..

I will copy paste a fatwa here from the saudi committee, on the subject of abortion: insha' Allah it will be of benefit.

if I speak in error then it is from me, may Allah forgive me and guide us all to what pleases Him. Ameen.

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Ruling on aborting a pregnancy in the early stages
What is the ruling on aborting a pregnancy in the early months (1-3) before the soul is breathed into the foetus?.

Praise be to Allaah.  

 

The Council of Senior Scholars issued the following statement: 

1 – It is not permissible to abort a pregnancy at any stage unless there is a legitimate reason, and within very precise limits.  

2 – If the pregnancy is in the first stage, which is a period of forty days, and aborting it serves a legitimate purpose or will ward off harm, then it is permissible to abort it. But aborting it at this stage for fear of the difficulty of raising children or of being unable to bear the costs of maintaining and educating them, or for fear for their future or because the couple feel that they have enough children – this is not permissible

3 – It is not permissible to abort a pregnancy when it is an ‘alaqah (clot) or mudghah (chewed lump of flesh) (which are the second and third periods of forty days each) until a trustworthy medical committee has decided that continuing the pregnancy poses a threat to the mother’s wellbeing, in that there is the fear that she will die if the pregnancy continues. It is permissible to abort it once all means of warding off that danger have been exhausted. 

4 – After the third stage, and after four months have passed, it is not permissible to abort the pregnancy unless a group of trustworthy medical specialists decide that keeping the foetus in his mother’s womb will cause her death, and that should only be done after all means of keeping the foetus alive have been exhausted. A concession is made allowing abortion in this case so as to ward off the greater of two evils and to serve the greater of two interests. 


Al-Fataawa al-Jaami’ah, 3/1056
___________________________________
 

Quote:

do unborn children have rights in Islam?



if the baby that was born dead, or aborted in the later stages of its life. and so had clear features like hands and feet and face.. ( in the later part of pregnancy - fifth months and up)  i believe that his rights upon his parents would be to name him, do Aqiqah on his behalf  and give him a proper janaazah ( washing, kafan, and prayer)
if the child is born alive - crying. then dies.. then I believe he has the same rights as the first one mentioned here: naming, aqeeqa and janaazah. but added to that is that if it were entitled an inheritance at the time then it is given to those who inherit him.
I remember reading about this a few days ago.. I am sure I still have the fatwa in my favorites. let me check :
 
alhamdulilaah, here it is , I will copy/paste it on here:
_________________________________________
Rulings to do with abortion
 
I would like to know the rulings that have to do with abortion of the foetus at various stages.

Praise be to Allaah.  

 

 

With regard to the rulings following an abortion, they vary according to the time of the abortion, and fall into four categories, as follows: 

1 – If the pregnancy is aborted within the first two stages (the nutfah (drop) stage which results from the mixing of the “two waters” which is the first forty days after the embryo attaches itself in the womb, and the ‘alaqah (clot) stage where it turns into solid blood during the second forty days), which add up to a total of eighty days, then in this case if it is aborted as a nutfah or ‘alaqah, there are no rulings to be followed, and there is no scholarly dispute on this point. The woman should continue to fast and pray as if she had not had an abortion, but she has to do wudoo’ for each prayer if she has any bleeding, as in the case of a woman suffering from istihaadah (non-menstrual vaginal bleeding). 

2 – If the pregnancy is aborted in the third stage, the mudghah (chewed piece of flesh) stage, when the embryo looks like a piece of meat with the limbs and features beginning to appear, which lasts for forty days from the eighty-first to the one hundred and twentieth day, then there are two scenarios:  

(i)                This embryo does not have any human features and the midwives or other attendants did not testify that this was the beginning of a human being. In this case the ruling on abortion of this mudghah is the same as the ruling on abortion in the first two stages, and there are no rulings to be followed.

(ii)              The embryo has complete human features or some human features  such as a hand or foot, etc, or there are features but they are indistinct, or the midwives or other attendants testified that this was the beginning of a human being. In this case the rulings on nifaas are to be followed, and this signals the end of ‘iddah (waiting period following divorce or death of the husband, if applicable). 

3 – If the pregnancy is aborted in the fourth stage, i.e., after the soul has been breathed into the foetus, which is after the beginning of the fifth month or after one hundred and twenty days of pregnancy have passed. Here there are two scenarios: 

(i)                If the foetus did not cry after birth, then the rulings mentioned with regard to the second stage of the mudghah are to be followed, but in addition the foetus should be washed, shrouded and the funeral prayer offered for him; he should be given a name and the ‘aqeeqah offered for him.

(ii)              If the foetus cried after birth, then the rulings concerning a full-term baby apply, as mentioned above; in addition the child may take possession of wealth bequeathed or inherited; he may inherit or be inherited from, etc. 

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 21/434-438.


______________________________
 
I know you have more loaded questions.. I was just scratching the surface of your post..  and did not really get into the real part of your questions..   like sister muhajjirah said, you have very detailed situations.. so I can only find things that are relevant. but if you can ask a credible scholar to ask. that would be better masha' Allah.  
 I am sorry,  I have to log off now..  but before I leave, I think I recall reading that it is not that simple when it comes to little children or babies dying and where their final abode might be.
we know for sure that Muslim babies, or infants, become birds of Jannah. Masha' Allah. and they will not be prevented from entering jannah because of the sins of their parents. in fact if parents are patient over their children's death then those children will lead their parents into Jannah insha' Allah.
However. it is not that simple when it comes to children  who are close to pubirty ( 11 or 12 or 13 but still had not had hit it.) or those babies born to people from other faiths.. there are actually two different opinions when it comes to this, and they are a bit complicated. so I dont' want to just simply rush into the answer now as i have to go help my son with his school project aaaaahhhhh!!!! and that will take most of my computer time for this day.. insha' Allah I will try and come back later today or tonight with the verses and hadiths to support my statement about Muslim children. and some extra information about those who are not ..
 
if I speak in error then it is from me, may Allah forgive me and guide us all to what pleases Him Ameen.
I leave you in the trusted care of Allah.
 
 
 

Love and salaam (peace)

 (proud2bmom3 Muslim Moms-- Owner. 

muhajjirah Group Admin
by on Feb. 10, 2011 at 1:07 PM
mashaAllah. proud do you fund these rulings on particular websites or downloads, if so could you kindly share? jazakAllah kheir <3
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muhajjirah Group Admin
by on Feb. 10, 2011 at 1:08 PM
HAVE not fund!!! lol
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proud2bmom3 Group Owner
by on Feb. 10, 2011 at 2:26 PM

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah. I'm back lol..

I realize that I said there are two opinions concerning the children of Kuffaar.. but I am inclined to go with the opinion of shaikh Uthaymeen Rahimahu Allah.  He said we simply dont' know. and should not try to make any assumptions..  when they die they are with Allah and He is the judge.. but on earth , when they die, they are treated as their parents are treated.. ie, are not washed or put in Kafan,.. no Janaazah prayer, and not buried with Muslimeen.

here is the fatwa:

_________________________

 

The fate of the children of believers and the children of mushrikeen who die young
What is the fate of the children of believers and the children of mushrikeen who die young?.

Praise be to Allaah.

 

The destiny of the children of believers is Paradise, because they follow their parents. Allaah says (interpretation of the needed):

“And those who believe and whose offspring follow them in Faith, —  to them shall We join their offspring, and We shall not decrease the reward of their deeds in anything. Every person is a pledge for that which he has earned”

[al-Toor 52:21]. 

As for the children of non-believers, i.e., children born to non-Muslim parents, the most correct view is that Allaah knows best what they would have done, so in this world they come under the same rulings as their parents; with regard to the Hereafter, Allaah knows best what they would have done, as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) said, and Allaah knows best about their fate. This is what we say, and in fact this is something that does not greatly concern us. Rather what concerns us is the ruling concerning them in this world. The ruling concerning them -- meaning the children of the mushrikeen -- is that they are like the mushrikeen: (if they die) they are not to be washed or shrouded, the funeral prayer is not to be offered for them and they are not to be buried in the Muslim graveyard. And Allaah knows best. End quote. 


Majmoo’ Fataawa Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (2/35)



___________________________
 
Muhajjirah. I find those fatwas on either Uthaymeen's websites, Sheikh al-munajjid website ( islamqa) or islamweb .. I have some in Arabic and some in a book by ibn baaz.. the previous two were from islamq&a ( almunajjid)

Love and salaam (peace)

 (proud2bmom3 Muslim Moms-- Owner. 

proud2bmom3 Group Owner
by on Feb. 12, 2011 at 12:06 PM

Assalamu alaikum dear sister

we have not heard back from you about this post... hope all is well with you and your family.

here is a part of a fatwa concerning the fate that shows evidence to the fate of children of Muslimeen when they die before puberty.  if you like I can provide the link for you to read the rest of the fatwa that discusses the differences of opinion over the children of Kuffar. though like I said I prefer to follow the opinion of ibn Uthaymeen ( rahimahu Allah) and just leave it up to Allah subhanahu wa t'aala. but even with the differences of opinion on the matter. the majority seem to go with Jannah insha' Allah.

if I speak in error then it is from me, may Allah forgive me and guide us all to what pleases Him Ameen.

____________________________________

the fate of the children of the Muslims:

Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: With regard to the children of the believers, there is no dispute among the scholars. Al-Qaadi Abu Ya’laa ibn al-Farraa’ al-Hanbali narrated that Imaam Ahmad said: there is no dispute concerning the fact that they will be among the people of Paradise. This is what is well known among people (i.e., the majority of scholars) and this is what we are definitely sure about, in sha Allaah. (Tafseer al-Qur’aan al-‘Azeem, 3/33).

Imaam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: who has any doubts that the children of the Muslims will be in Paradise?!

He also said: there is no difference among them on this matter. (Haashiyat Ibn al-Qayyim ‘ala Sunan Abi Dawood, 7/83).

Imaam al-Nawawi said: the reliable Muslim scholars agreed that any Muslim child who dies will be among the people of Paradise, because he was not responsible (i.e., had not yet reached the age of account). (Sharh Muslim, 16/207).

Al-Qurtubi said: the view that they will be in Paradise is the view of the majority. And he said: some scholars denounced any dispute concerning them. (al-Tadhkirah, 2/328).

Love and salaam (peace)

 (proud2bmom3 Muslim Moms-- Owner. 

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