Hot Topic (11/23): Has China cost the U.S. 3 million jobs?

[Cafe GroupAdmin]

Obama, Hu Avoid Discussions of U.S. Indebtedness to China

by Wendell Goler 

President Obama and Chinese leader Hu Jintao discussed a wide range of issues during the president's visit to the communist nation, including climate change and Iran's nuclear program. But there's one issue aides say the two leaders didn't talk about: China's holding of $800 billion in U.S. treasury bonds.

"The $800 billion never came up in conversation, and the president dealt with every issue on his agenda in a very direct way and pulled no punches," said Michael Froman, Obama's deputy national security adviser for international economic affairs

China's ability to loan the U.S. that much money depends on its booming exports, which in turn are booming because other countries' money goes farther in China since the value of the yuan, in which Chinese workers are paid, is kept artificially low.

It's not a perfect marriage, economist Robert Scott says.

"We've become reliant on Chinese capital and the Chinese have become reliant on their exports to the United States," he told Fox News. "That's a relationship we both need to escape from. We need a divorce from that relationship."

Chinese-made goods are cheaper in this country than they would be if the yuan was properly valued. But since the U.S. not making the goods, economist Peter Morici says the U.S. pays for the difference in jobs.

"Overall, the combination of China and other Asian countries' currency manipulation and protectionism has cost the United State 3 million jobs in this decade," Morici said.

That is forcing American workers to retrain or take lower-paying jobs and sometimes both. Their complaints may not seem so loud when the unemployment rate is 4 percent, but they are loud and clear when the jobless rate is 10 percent and climbing.

Some economists believe the threat of tariffs would force China's leaders to assign a more reasonable value to the yuan.

"We merely have to empower the president and threaten China and other currency manipulators that if we don't change their behavior they will face sanctions," Scott said. "And that threat alone will do the job."

Economists say China won't cash in its dollars because that would lock in its losses and drag down the economy of its biggest trading partner.

China's economic model calls for moving 100 million peasant farmers to cities in the coming decade, and it depends on continued exports. But it could have a global impact.

"If China moves 100 million people from the fields into factories for exports," Morici said. "It will wipe out every manufacturing job in Europe, North America and the industrialized world."

Without those exports, China would have tens of millions more unemployed each year. That's a recipe for trouble, and economists say loaning other countries the money to buy their exports is China's investment in political stability.

* * *

What do you think about the relationship between the United States and China?

Were you aware that China holds $800 billion in U.S. Treasury Bonds?

Do you buy products made in China?  Do you think Americans should buy only American-made products?  Has China cost the U.S. 3 million jobs?

[Mergath]

Thanks to our wonderful capitalist economy, if China decides to stop giving us loans, we're screwed.  Without them, our entire economy will collapse.

Yes, I was aware of this before I read this article.  Read about it in "Mindful Economics," by Joel Magnuson.

I do buy products made in China, but I try to buy whatever I can from thrift stores, so it doesn't matter as much.  For many items, though, you'd never be able to find anything made in the US.  Almost everything is made in Asia now.  

[tinybubblez]

i did know about the debt and the fact that the Chinese are worried about repayment.

while the 5th amendment mandates that private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation,i would not put anything past this shady administration to override that with an executive order once China calls the note.

is there ANYTHING that is made in the US anymore?including food? a toothpick..maybe?

[zweedledee]

Quoting tinybubblez:

i did know about the debt and the fact that the Chinese are worried about repayment.

while the 5th amendment mandates that private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation,i would not put anything past this shady administration to override that with an executive order once China calls the note.

is there ANYTHING that is made in the US anymore?including food? a toothpick..maybe?

I agree with this. I feel like China will call the note and there will be a great culling of property owners in the U.S.

{{{Sometimes I try to imagine what it will be like, you know.. how they would do it. And I think about helicopters every where with Chinese soldiers coming down ladders, and evicting people from their homes while a lot of our troops are searching for Bush's deceased child hood buddy Osama. }}}

I look at the made in label on just about everything I buy. I refuse to buy produce from other countries. But there are a lot of things made in other countries. I actively avoid things made in China specifically.

[sweetie00]

What do you think about the relationship between the United States and China? Ugh. The tables are turning.

Were you aware that China holds $800 billion in U.S. Treasury Bonds? yes.

Do you buy products made in China?  only when I must. Do you think Americans should buy only American-made products?  yes!Has China cost the U.S. 3 million jobs? yes!

I buy alot of second hand, too. And I'm willing to pay a little more for American made products. And we try to avoid places like WalMart. I think I'd rather wear rags and eat grass before I ever shop there.

[resamerie]

 

What do you think about the relationship between the United States and China? That China knows very well that it owns a good portion of the U.S. and that amount in interest alone is growing daily. The U.S. no longer has the upper hand even at  an immaginable level that it used to. The dollar is growing weaker everyday and we keep turning to China who now laughs at us as being a 'Super Power'.

Were you aware that China holds $800 billion in U.S. Treasury Bonds? I wasn't sure of the exact amount because as I understand with the interest rate it grows daily.

Do you buy products made in China?  Do you think Americans should buy only American-made products?  Has China cost the U.S. 3 million jobs? To answer all 3 questions, what is exactly 'made in America' anymore? What percentage of our goods are made here I would like to know? There used to be pride in buying American made products. Now, try to find a children's toy or a tomato for that matter that comes from this country.  

[Mergath]

It's not this administration that got us into this situation.  If China calls the note, what exactly do you think Obama should do?  Tell them to go f*** themselves?

Quoting tinybubblez:

i did know about the debt and the fact that the Chinese are worried about repayment.

while the 5th amendment mandates that private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation,i would not put anything past this shady administration to override that with an executive order once China calls the note.

is there ANYTHING that is made in the US anymore?including food? a toothpick..maybe?

[survivorinohio]

What do you think about the relationship between the United States and China?

China makes me uncomfortable.  Some of that discomfort is caused by my perceptions I am sure, and some from history.

Were you aware that China holds $800 billion in U.S. Treasury Bonds?

Yes

Do you buy products made in China? 

I really try not too but given the availability and costs of alternative, I do end up buying Chinese goods.

Do you think Americans should buy only American-made products?

I think that would be very difficult, we as a nation have scaled back in production to a point we can no longer find many products made in America.

Has China cost the U.S. 3 million jobs?

I am not familiar with exact figures but China has cost us jobs. 

If someone wants me to I will source this :

China has recruited American car makers to set up plants, share engineering and manufacturing information, and basically teach them how to build cars.  China very much wants to be the number one  auto manufacturer in the world.  I see this as being a bad deal for America all the way around.

[zweedledee]

The Constitution has been trampled on since 1913. No, it's not JUST this administration it is all of them. But at any point, any administration could CHOOSE TO DO THE RIGHT THING.. and for sure, this one IS NOT.

And yes, they can tell China to go shove it. Why not? They can go to East Timor and bomb hut people for fun. They can shuttle in heavy weaponry to Isreal to bomb innocent children in their own homes... why couldn't they tell China to go screw themselves... What, is the big, bad, villianous, dangerous, United Statest scared???

The U.S. is not scared to destroy hut people, but scared to protect it's citizens from China in the event that China comes to tear into our private property?

???

Quoting Mergath:

It's not this administration that got us into this situation.  If China calls the note, what exactly do you think Obama should do?  Tell them to go f*** themselves?

Quoting tinybubblez:

i did know about the debt and the fact that the Chinese are worried about repayment.

while the 5th amendment mandates that private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation,i would not put anything past this shady administration to override that with an executive order once China calls the note.

is there ANYTHING that is made in the US anymore?including food? a toothpick..maybe?

[stormcris]

What do you think about the relationship between the United States and China? Precarious

Were you aware that China holds $800 billion in U.S. Treasury Bonds? Yes

Do you buy products made in China? Only when I buy direct and those are normally things not seen here.

Do you think Americans should buy only American-made products? It is a very hard thing to do but we have to do something or there will eventually be no industry left.

Has China cost the U.S. 3 million jobs?

Echoing U.S. manufacturers' complaints, the commission report said China subsidized land, water and energy to allow Chinese producers and foreign firms that relocate there to sell at deep discounts compared to their American competitors.

The commission also reiterated a long-standing U.S. complaint that China's renminbi currency is pegged at an artificially low value against the dollar to give China a cost advantage in trade that has helped it accumulate $2.27 trillion in foreign reserves -- the world's largest pool.

That currency policy prompted two U.S. senators to ask the Commerce Department on Thursday to investigate suspected Chinese currency "manipulation."

"Commerce has authority under existing law to initiate investigations that can help U.S. industries and protect U.S. jobs, and we are urging the Department to use that authority," Democratic Senator Charles Schumer and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham wrote in a letter to Commerce Secretary Gary Locke.

Data released by the Commerce Department this month showed the U.S. trade deficit with China widened 9.2 percent in September to $22.1 billion, the highest since November 2008.

The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission was set up in 2000 to advise Congress on the economic and national security implications of the U.S.-China relationship.

I would say that China and Israel and Mexico have taken way more jobs than is reasonable to maintain the general population of the United States, this combined with insourcing and there is little left.

[tinybubblez]

not sure why i am replying to u when u use such language.try to act civilized, mkay?

THIS administration quadrupled our national debt in just 1 year and the democraps held the majority  the last 2 years of Bush's presidency.

i suppose u think eminent domain by the Chinese would be perfectly acceptable? let me guess,u don't OWN anything but the clothes on ur back.*eye roll*

 

Quoting Mergath:

It's not this administration that got us into this situation.  If China calls the note, what exactly do you think Obama should do?  Tell them to go f*** themselves?

Quoting tinybubblez:

i did know about the debt and the fact that the Chinese are worried about repayment.

while the 5th amendment mandates that private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation,i would not put anything past this shady administration to override that with an executive order once China calls the note.

is there ANYTHING that is made in the US anymore?including food? a toothpick..maybe?