Hot Topic (12/25): Is Jesus the Reason for the Season? (Poll)

[Cafe GroupAdmin]

In what year was Jesus' born?

The year of Christ's birth is unknown. The only available evidence relating to his birth is contained within the 40 or so gospels written by the early Christian movement. Of these, the four that made it into the official canon of the Christian Scriptures (New Testament), are most often cited -- Matthew and Luke, chapters 1 & 2. People have tried to approximate the time of Jesus' birth using various clues:

• References to political leaders: Luke 1:5 states that Jesus was born when Herod was King of Judea. Luke 2:2 states that Jesus was born when Cyrenius (a.k.a. Quirinius) was also governor of Syria. Unfortunately, this appears to be an impossibility. The historical record shows that Herod was king from 37 until his death in 4 BCE. (A few scholars say 5 BCE). Quirinius was not governor of Syria at any time during this period. He came to power in 6 CE, a decade after Herod died. ₁ Some biblical literalists have suggested that the two Gospels can be harmonized if Quirinius was governor during two separate intervals. There is no historical evidence to support this; however, it is often taught as truth.
• Census/taxation: Luke 2:1-4 mentions that Jesus' birth occurred during the time that Caesar Augustus had ordered all of the known world to be taxed. Luke said that every person had to return to the city of his ancestors, to be registered and taxed. Joseph went to Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David. But it is probable that this universal census and tax never actually happened. The Jewish historian Josephus wrote a very complete history of the Jews in Palestine. He does mention a census which was conducted in Judea in 6 CE. But this was only a local census, not one that would enable "all the world to be taxed." Its purpose was to count the male population so that they could be taxed at a later time. And it triggered a major uprising among the Jews, who regarded a census as against scripture and the will of God. He does not refer to an earlier census and poll tax.

  At the time of Jesus' birth, the Jews were still subject to King Herod. Since Palestine was a client kingdom of Rome, only the king had powers of taxation in the land. ₂ It was only in areas that were operated under direct Roman rule that Caesar Augustus could have taxed the citizens directly.

  There is no record of a mass migration of adults to their ancestral cities in order to be registered. It would have been totally impractical to hold a census in this way. The primitive transportation systems of the Roman Empire would have been totally inadequate to handle the flow of people. The entire empire would be largely shut down for many months while people were returning to their home towns. Even today, with airplanes, trains, busses and automobiles, it would not be practical to hold a census in this manner.

• Herod's "slaughter of the innocents:" Matthew 2:16 describes King Herod's order that all of the boy infants who had not reached their second birthday in Bethlehem and vicinity were to be murdered. The date of that mass murder would give an approximate idea of Jesus' birth. Unfortunately for historians (and fortunately for the residents of the Bethlehem area) the killings never appeared to have happened. If the children were killed, then historians of the era would have been certain to have recorded the event. No such record exists. Josephus wrote in great detail about even minor actions and decisions of Herod. The mass murder was never mentioned.

Our present method of dates, which divide the past into AD (anno domine, the year of the Lord) and BC (before Christ), was established by Dionysius Exiguus in the 6^th century. As the calendar has been more generally accepted among people of many religions, the terms AD and BC have been largely superseded in religious and academic books by: CE (common era) and BCE (before the common era). Exiguus was a Christian monk whose name translates into English as "Denny the Dwarf."

The best guess of most Biblical scholars is that Jesus was born between 4 and 7 BCE. Recently, a new suggestion of 1 BC has been put forth. So perhaps Denny was not as far off in his calculations as people have believed. ₃

The 2000th anniversary of the birth of Jesus would appear to have already passed. Marcus Borg organized and hosted the "Jesus at 2000" seminar on the life of Jesus. It was held on 1996-FEB-8 to 10, the approximate date of the 2000^th anniversary of Jesus' birth.

[Goodwoman614]

I said "other" b/c it is what you want it to be.

Christians have their Jesus birthday,

pagans and other Earth-based spiritualities have Yule,

and lots and lots of folks have their secular holiday from work and school, with all the wonders and delights of the season.

Nobody need get their panties in a wad over somebody else's "reason for the season."

Peace,

~Pam

[dreamerinluv]

You can call it whatever you want.....but I say ANY reason to get together with my loved ones around the dinner table is good =)

[Mergath]

The Solstice is the original reason for the season.  All of the holidays either directly or indirectly come from that.

[kameka]

[Goodwoman614]

Quoting kameka:

Love the siggy, btw...

[EireLass]

Regardless of how it started, it seems to have evolved into commercialism and gluttony as the reason for the season. 

[cherry41089]

lol this

Quoting kameka:

[izzybear0217]

this but I'm not eating dinner w/ my family b/c I'm sick :(

Quoting dreamerinluv:

You can call it whatever you want.....but I say ANY reason to get together with my loved ones around the dinner table is good =)

[eaglemama2]

Depends on what you believe, can anyone provide any proof at all?  I don't need a reason to eat and drink, lol my main focus is the kids, that they get whatever they want and are happy, stuff everything else, lol.

[morningdove831]

Quoting EireLass:

Regardless of how it started, it seems to have evolved into commercialism and gluttony as the reason for the season. 

This.  It's so sad.  I am Christian, however, and believe that Jesus is the reason.  Regardless of when he was actually born, we celebrate him at Christmas.  DS gets a few gifts but we attend a Christmas Eve worship service and focus on the true meaning of Christmas.