Hot Topic (1/5): Are faith-healing parents guilty of homicide?
Judge: Parents' duty to provide care
Pretrial arguments began Monday in the Beagley faith-healing case
A Clackamas County circuit judge rejected Monday several attempts by Jeffrey and Marci Beagley to dismiss charges against them in the faith-healing death of their 16-year-old son.
Judge Steven Maurer dismissed a number of motions by attorneys representing the Beagleys, who face a trial in January on criminally negligent homicide charges in the June 2008 death of their son Neil.
The Beagleys are the grandparents of 15-month-old Ava Worthington, who died in March 2008 from a blood infection after faith-healing attempts by her family. They are members of the Followers of Christ Church in Oregon City, which rejects treatment by doctors in favor of faith healing.
Attorneys representing Jeffrey and Marci Beagley presented a number of arguments during Monday’s pre-trial hearing, many focusing on the duty to provide medical care. Attorneys said the “duty” was vague or nonexistent in state statutes and was not specifically in the definition of criminally negligent homicide.
Neil Beagley died at his home in Oregon City on June 17, 2008, from a treatable inflammation in his urinary system, according to the county medical examiner’s office.
Monday’s hearing, which was expected to go on into Tuesday and possibly longer, included nuanced legal arguments, many of them “demurrers” – where a defendant does not dispute the truth of an allegation but claims it is not sufficient grounds to justify prosecution.
The defense offered various arguments in that vein, saying that a duty to provide care is not explicitly laid out and specific requirements of a parent are not clear, based on the state statutes.
“Oregon does not recognize common law crimes, and I would submit that is basically exactly what the state is trying to do,” said defense attorney Wayne Mackeson of Portland. “They’re basically creating a common law crime by getting the court to rule what the duty is when that hasn’t been defined by the Legislature.”
The defense also raised issues of the vagueness of the charges, saying criminally negligent homicide is vaguely defined and the state must prove the parents knew they had a duty.
Maurer denied the demurrers, saying there was clearly a duty on the part of parents to provide care even if it’s not specifically referenced in every statute.
Worthington appeal
Much has been made of the fact that Neil Beagley was 16; higher charges, such as murder or manslaughter, apply in cases in which the child was 14 years old or younger. Criminally negligent homicide has no age provision.
“If you cause the death of any other person, it’s criminally negligent homicide,” Maurer said. “If it’s under 14 (years of age), then it elevates that … it seems to me to be clearly and indisputably an enhancement provision … it doesn’t change the fact that if your criminal negligence causes the death of another person (it’s still criminally negligent homicide); that doesn’t cut out a group of other people, that doesn’t cut out an age group.”
Similarly, children 15 years and older have the ability to seek medical care. But the prosecution has argued that doesn’t necessarily mean they can refuse medical care.
Maurer said that there was a duty, but the scope of that, or what a reasonable person would do, would be decided by the jury.
Some of the motions filed by the defense were similarly filed in the trial this summer of Carl and Brent Worthington, who were charged in the death of their 15-month-old daughter, Ava. Carl Worthington was found guilty of criminal mistreatment, which his attorney has said he will appeal.
Some of the motions raised – such as that the prosecution is based on the parents’ membership in the Followers of Christ Church and that it violates their freedom of religion rights – could set the defense up for a possible appeal if one or both of the parents are found guilty on similar grounds.
* * *
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children?
Do children have the right to refuse medical care?
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing?
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children? This is not a black and white issue...I refuse immunizations for my kids, but I wouldnt refuse to seek medical care if they were injured or sick...Do parents have the right?.....I think as long as the child is not in pain or going to possibly going to die then yes a parent has a right...
Do children have the right to refuse medical care? Also not so black and white.....Refuse like getting stitches because it is going to hurt? Then no.....But a child lets say 10 or older who is sick and tired of going through chemo and there is not a good chance the child is going to live with the treatment, then yes...
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing? I think they are very strong in their faith, and that is their right, but they should never keep a kid from treatment to keep them alive...God gave us brains that is why we have doctors......Faith and medicine can go hand in hand....
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children?
Personally, I do not think so. I have though seen various laws interpreted as "religious exemption", as the reason for not being held liable for not seeking medical care. However, I believe that many who believe this are not really making informed decisions, and are misled by their church. I'm sure others are well informed, yettruly believe they are doing the right thing. Even so, I still think that they shouldn't have that right.
I see the parent as having the legal duty to protect their child, and as such, to seek appropriate medical care. What I also find interesting, when you read about these cases, many children were suffering horribly before they died. So, even if the families didn't believe in getting medical care- they didn't even seek to alleviate the suffering, other than "praying" for the children by some special church practitioner. To me, that is not only negligent, but extremely callous, and almost shows a disregard for human life. What parent could put their child in that situation, and in essence create more suffering?
Do children have the right to refuse medical care?
I think it depends on the child and the issue, but for the most part- No, just by the fact that they are a minor, and technically not able to make a legal decision. In these situations, definitely not, because they aren't informed whatsoever. I also think that a child in that type of situation is not only uninformed, but brainwashed. They know nothing else.
However, I have met young children, even age 10-12, who have endstage diagnoses, and no longer wish to have painful "treatments", that only prolong the inevitable. In those cases, I believe that if the child wishes to cease treatment, that they should have the right. They should be given all the resources, knowledge, counselors, physicians to help them decide what they want to do.
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing?
Well, I guess it is a good thing that I am not a judge. I'd have a very difficult time being objective with something like that. As I said above, I think many are brainwashed, misguided. They may mean well, but need to be held responsible to the fullest extent of the law for causing uncessarary and at times excruciating suffering to these poor children.
Quoting tericared:
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children? This is not a black and white issue...I refuse immunizations for my kids, but I wouldnt refuse to seek medical care if they were injured or sick...Do parents have the right?.....I think as long as the child is not in pain or going to possibly going to die then yes a parent has a right...
Do children have the right to refuse medical care? Also not so black and white.....Refuse like getting stitches because it is going to hurt? Then no.....But a child lets say 10 or older who is sick and tired of going through chemo and there is not a good chance the child is going to live with the treatment, then yes...
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing? I think they are very strong in their faith, and that is their right, but they should never keep a kid from treatment to keep them alive...God gave us brains that is why we have doctors......Faith and medicine can go hand in hand....
I wouldn't put immunizations in the same category. To me, immunizations have a significant amount of risk, and are more "preventative care" than actual "medical care", such as for illness or injury. I'm sure some wouldn't agree. deciding not to do imunizations (or delayed as we did) I think shows that one is really making an informed choice; whereas many of these parents didn't show that level of decisionmaking. It's a blanket "no" to all.
Sadly, even if the line is not in pain or could die- even simple things can lead to death if not treated- a cut, an infection, on and on. These parents don't recognize it at all, and at times, when they finally did call 911, it was too late. They didn't take action soon enough, and in many cases it was completely preventable.
Unfortunately, some of these people believe that physican's practice witchcraft, and wouldn't even allow them to "treat" their child under any circumstances.
The whole situation is very sad.
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children? It is a sticky issue, but I don't think that parents have the right to refuse to seek medical care for underage children. Yes, there are rights associated with Freedom of Religion, but I think that the laws preventing neglect of a minor trump those that. I think that an illegal act in regards to a child who has not reached the legal age of consent negates certain aspects of Freedom of Religion for the parents in this case (those aspects being neglecting to provide essential medical care). At the age of 18 I think you can go ahead and refuse medical treatment for yourself based on your religious beliefs.
Do children have the right to refuse medical care?I'm with Terica on this one. I think they have the right to be heard when it involves serious medical care and chronic illness. However, I don't think kiddos get to forego the benefits of stitches or a cast because it might hurt. My kiddo would never step foot in a doctors office if this were the case.
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing?I don't think a belief in god and medical care are mutually exclusive. Beyond that, I think that it is a horribly selfish view and I just don't care if people don't get to heaven because they were good parents.
* * *
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children?
Do children have the right to refuse medical care?
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing?
Are faith-healing parents guilty of homicide?----- If the child dies due to a parents refusal to allow them proper medical care then yes i believe its homicide and i feel the parents should be prosecuted accordingly.
1. If a childs life is in danger i dont feel the parents should have any choice in the matter, they should legaly be bound to acquire medical treatment for their children regardless of religious beliefs.
2. If a child cant legaly sign for medical care and in most states they cant then they should also not be legaly allowed to refuse medical care.
3. Honestly i think anyone who relies solely on faith-healing is an idiot regardless of religion.
I have to say that even the Amish *sp* who hate modern technology and otherwise refuse to use it, will do anything it takes to get their kids to a hospital when they are extremely ill or having any kind of life endangering medical issue.
Vincent 4-25-07, Dante 5-20-08
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children? This depends on what a persons definition of medical care is...for instance some would say presuing holistic health practices was refusal to seek medical care in which case I would say yes they do. Right to sit and just pray without having the child seen about under any circumstances ...no. However, if they are going to allow a person to medically exempt a life saving blood transfusion (which exempting anything life saving goes against the life above all else)then how can any judge deny any religious exemption.
Do children have the right to refuse medical care?Yes I do. Provided they are of sound mind and making an informed decision. If abuse is something done against the will of a person it technically would be abuse not to. The right of a child to be heard and listened to is important. It is an entire different thing for them to wish to stop or change a long term treatment that has been explained to them, than to refuse cough syrup because its icky.
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing?I have often heard the saying God helps those who helps themselves. I think Ben Franklin had it correct when he said this. Many people believe that God sends miracles and angels that also believe in faith healing. It could be that miracle or angel is sent through or as a doctor, but if they refuse the help then perhaps they are refusing their miracle/angel.
I completely agree with this. 100% I wanted to add, I am not sure how I feel about legally charging them. Though I feel it is wrong, they feel they are following their faith. They are not physically harming them, they are denying treatment. I am just not sure how I feel about that.
And I have a hard time understanding Christians who do not believe at all in medicine. Luke was a physician in the Bible, so aparently God is not against medicine. I believe that faith and medicine can go hand in hand. You have faith that God sends you to the right doctors and you have peace that whatever happens is in the will of God. I do not trust many doctors because money has become a huge player in medicine and I do not think my family's best interest is always sought out. I educated myself and many times we do not go to the doctor for some things. I go to a midwife if I am pregnant etc., but that has nothing to do with my religion.
Quoting tericared:
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children? This is not a black and white issue...I refuse immunizations for my kids, but I wouldnt refuse to seek medical care if they were injured or sick...Do parents have the right?.....I think as long as the child is not in pain or going to possibly going to die then yes a parent has a right...
Do children have the right to refuse medical care? Also not so black and white.....Refuse like getting stitches because it is going to hurt? Then no.....But a child lets say 10 or older who is sick and tired of going through chemo and there is not a good chance the child is going to live with the treatment, then yes...
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing? I think they are very strong in their faith, and that is their right, but they should never keep a kid from treatment to keep them alive...God gave us brains that is why we have doctors......Faith and medicine can go hand in hand....
Check out Jacob's jouney on my home page!
I have to totally agree with this. I refuse some immunizations for my kids too, I beleve God can and does heal people, but He can heal people while they're taking treatments or medications prescribed by their doctors. I thank God that He put what we needed on the earth to make medicines.
Quoting tericared:
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children? This is not a black and white issue...I refuse immunizations for my kids, but I wouldnt refuse to seek medical care if they were injured or sick...Do parents have the right?.....I think as long as the child is not in pain or going to possibly going to die then yes a parent has a right...
Do children have the right to refuse medical care? Also not so black and white.....Refuse like getting stitches because it is going to hurt? Then no.....But a child lets say 10 or older who is sick and tired of going through chemo and there is not a good chance the child is going to live with the treatment, then yes...
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing? I think they are very strong in their faith, and that is their right, but they should never keep a kid from treatment to keep them alive...God gave us brains that is why we have doctors......Faith and medicine can go hand in hand....
I agree
Quoting GoodMomma24-7:I have to totally agree with this. I refuse some immunizations for my kids too, I beleve God can and does heal people, but He can heal people while they're taking treatments or medications prescribed by their doctors. I thank God that He put what we needed on the earth to make medicines.
Quoting tericared:
Do parents have the religious right to refuse to seek medical care for their children? This is not a black and white issue...I refuse immunizations for my kids, but I wouldnt refuse to seek medical care if they were injured or sick...Do parents have the right?.....I think as long as the child is not in pain or going to possibly going to die then yes a parent has a right...
Do children have the right to refuse medical care? Also not so black and white.....Refuse like getting stitches because it is going to hurt? Then no.....But a child lets say 10 or older who is sick and tired of going through chemo and there is not a good chance the child is going to live with the treatment, then yes...
What do you think about parents who rely on faith-healing? I think they are very strong in their faith, and that is their right, but they should never keep a kid from treatment to keep them alive...God gave us brains that is why we have doctors......Faith and medicine can go hand in hand....
Eight Year Old Girl Given "Catastrophe Award" By Teacher
- Cafe GroupAdmin
on Jan. 5, 2010 at 1:09 AM