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Babies in Bars

Posted by on May. 13, 2010 at 3:25 PM
  • 47 Replies

I think this is an interesting debate. Your thoughts?

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/03/02/brooklyn.babies.in.bars/index.html

Brooklyn brewhaha: Babies in bars

By Jessica Ravitz, CNN
March 2, 2010 -- Updated 1639 GMT (0039 HKT)
Matt Gross, and his daughter Sasha, like a good bar -- and not  just in Brooklyn. Here they visit one in San Francisco, California.
Matt Gross, and his daughter Sasha, like a good bar -- and not just in Brooklyn. Here they visit one in San Francisco, California.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
  • Babies in bars are the subject of heated discussion in Brooklyn, where strollers rule
  • Singles don't want to watch their language, behavior; parents don't want to be shut out
  • Debate began when bar banned strollers; policy overturned after outcry, blogger says
  • Dad says he's "not knocking back double vodkas while my daughter is stumbling around"

(CNN) -- From time to time, Sasha Raven Gross can be seen teetering around a neighborhood drinking hole. She flirts with strangers, talks gibberish and sometimes spins in circles for no apparent reason until she falls down. In one hand is her liquid of choice -- watered-down orange juice in a sippy cup.

The 14-month-old toddler is the sort of barfly who's at the center of a recurring and heated debate: Should parents be allowed to bring their babies and children to bars?

It is a question in Brooklyn, New York, that's fired up online arguments, prompted unofficial protests and made outsiders giggle. And while the issue may not be exclusive to that area, it's the stuff disputes are made of in what Sasha's dad, Matt Gross, calls the kid-heavy "greater stroller zone" of Park Slope and its surrounding neighborhoods.

Single hipsters and others without (and sometimes with) kids complain about being asked to watch their language, to not smoke outdoors near strollers and to keep their drunk friends under control so as not to scare the little ones. They don't want to feel pressure to play peekaboo. They want to cry over their beers, they say, without having an infant drown them out. If anyone is spitting up, they want it to be them.

"I will get up on the subway for kids. I will be tolerant of them kicking the back of my seat while seeing a G-rated movie. But let me have my bars," said Julieanne Smolinski, 26, who feels guilty sucking down suds in front of staring 5-year-olds. The adults who bring their offspring to bars, she suggests, are "clinging to their youth."

Parents, on the other hand, say that as long as they're responsible and their kids behave, they deserve the right to grab a quick drink with friends. And, they might add, in a place like New York -- where the cost of baby sitters can be prohibitive and tight living quarters can make hosting guests at home difficult -- they need places to hang out, too.

"As a stay-at-home dad, it can be kind of isolating. Bars, as much as they're places to drink, they're places to socialize and meet people," said Gross, 35, a freelance writer, an editor for the blog DadWagon and the columnist behind the Frugal Traveler in The New York Times. "I long for adult contact. ... I don't want to be excluded from the adult world."

But the divide remains wide in the blogosphere. Around 150 readers weighed in recently when someone posted on the Brooklynian, a neighborhood blog, the simple query: "Which bars are child free?" One writer shared the tale of a drunk father standing at a bar while his beer sloshed on his stroller-strapped kid's face. Another poster announced a bar crawl in which "no crawlers" would be allowed.

The public debate about babies in bars ignited about two years ago when the bar Union Hall, a popular stomping ground, banned strollers from the premises, Gross said.

"At a certain point, owners said, 'Hey, enough,' " he explained. "Strollers take up a lot of room, especially the nice strollers. Your average Bugaboo is a beast."

This ban on buggies in a neighborhood where "kids rule" caused an "uproar," said Erica Reitman, the 36-year-old married -- but not a "breeder," she insists -- marketing director who is behind the blog F****ed in Park Slope. "There wasn't a march on the street, but there could have been. [Union Hall] relented under pressure and got rid of the policy."

The owner of Union Hall would not talk to CNN, but an unnamed bartender -- who mentioned the bar had been issued tickets by the fire department at one point because strollers blocked exits -- confirmed that there is no such policy in place.

In a part of the city where Greg Curley says he sees "a sense of entitlement on both sides," and where people don't hold back their opinions -- "This is Brooklyn," he said -- he and his partners at The Double Windsor instituted a no-kids-after-5 p.m. rule.

"We're a neighborhood gathering place, not a hard-drinking bar, and we're not jerks about it" said Curley, a co-owner and the general manager. "But the overwhelming clientele that spends quite a lot of money here can't deal with babies."

Rules like this, simple compromises, don't bother Gross as they might other parents. He's not interested in taking Sasha out till all hours of the night anyway.

But when he gets a little stir-crazy in their apartment, he likes to head out to grab a stout with his little girl. He's not taking her to punk dive bars where the music is loud, fights break out and patrons make out or pass out. They gravitate to mellow hangouts, and only in the late afternoon or early evening.

"I'm not going to keep her out past 7 p.m. When the bar starts filling up, that's when we head home," he said. "It's responsible parenting and responsible adult behavior. I'm not knocking back double vodkas while my daughter is stumbling around."

by on May. 13, 2010 at 3:25 PM
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Replies (1-10):
Joqui
by Joqui on May. 13, 2010 at 3:29 PM

hmmm not sure how I feel about it... I mean, is it a smoke free bar? are there peanuts on the floor? are the parents going to get hammered or just have a nice glass of wine? (just one)

Mandipants
by on May. 13, 2010 at 3:31 PM


Quoting Joqui:

hmmm not sure how I feel about it... I mean, is it a smoke free bar? are there peanuts on the floor? are the parents going to get hammered or just have a nice glass of wine? (just one)

I'm reluctant to jump on the 'I should take my kid anywhere I want because I have kids' bandwagon.

Kids are not 21. Isn't that the law? Why should patrons and owners of bars be forced to cater to a kid crowd? It isn't a kid world.

I tend to agree with this quote from the article...

"I will get up on the subway for kids. I will be tolerant of them kicking the back of my seat while seeing a G-rated movie. But let me have my bars," said Julieanne Smolinski, 26, who feels guilty sucking down suds in front of staring 5-year-olds. The adults who bring their offspring to bars, she suggests, are "clinging to their youth."

survivorinohio
by René on May. 13, 2010 at 3:31 PM


Quoting Joqui:

hmmm not sure how I feel about it... I mean, is it a smoke free bar? are there peanuts on the floor? are the parents going to get hammered or just have a nice glass of wine? (just one)

I like all of your questions.

I would add what time is it? and What is the establishments reputation?

                                                 

   
                                             

How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong, because sometime in life you will have been one or all of these. George Washington Carver

Joqui
by Joqui on May. 13, 2010 at 3:33 PM

ok so after re-reading the article.. I agree with him.. he can go and have a nice glass of wine or drink of his choice and he leaves before the bar gets full.. it's not some nasty yucky bar so heck, I'd probably do it too.. I recently went to an art gallery that also lets you sample their wines... they give you 6 different wines to try out and the kids were with me.. heck, they were like come back! and you can bring the kids! we can't go inside wine tasting rooms with the kids so it was nice to go to a place that welcomed my children.. I am not getting hammered I am not trying to show out.. I just wanted to enjoy a nice drink and watch my kids draw ... it was nice :)

Joqui
by Joqui on May. 13, 2010 at 3:34 PM

yes.. and in that case I have to side with the bar and everyone else.. there should not be any accomodations for parents with kids.. don't bring your bulky stroller... don't expect extra help and if you kid is getting cranky it's time to go .. no one should have to ruin THEIR fun because YOU want to have fun... does that make sense?

Quoting Mandipants:


Quoting Joqui:

hmmm not sure how I feel about it... I mean, is it a smoke free bar? are there peanuts on the floor? are the parents going to get hammered or just have a nice glass of wine? (just one)

I'm reluctant to jump on the 'I should take my kid anywhere I want because I have kids' bandwagon.

Kids are not 21. Isn't that the law? Why should patrons and owners of bars be forced to cater to a kid crowd? It isn't a kid world.

I tend to agree with this quote from the article...

"I will get up on the subway for kids. I will be tolerant of them kicking the back of my seat while seeing a G-rated movie. But let me have my bars," said Julieanne Smolinski, 26, who feels guilty sucking down suds in front of staring 5-year-olds. The adults who bring their offspring to bars, she suggests, are "clinging to their youth."


Mandipants
by on May. 13, 2010 at 3:40 PM


Quoting Joqui:

ok so after re-reading the article.. I agree with him.. he can go and have a nice glass of wine or drink of his choice and he leaves before the bar gets full.. it's not some nasty yucky bar so heck, I'd probably do it too.. I recently went to an art gallery that also lets you sample their wines... they give you 6 different wines to try out and the kids were with me.. heck, they were like come back! and you can bring the kids! we can't go inside wine tasting rooms with the kids so it was nice to go to a place that welcomed my children.. I am not getting hammered I am not trying to show out.. I just wanted to enjoy a nice drink and watch my kids draw ... it was nice :)

I don't have any problem with kids around alcohol (that's kinda an American puritanical idea that I don't buy into...) I just have a problem with people thinking that just because they have kids everyone else should accomodate them at all times...

Art galleries, fine. Restaurants, fine. But--bars are ONLY for adults... which is why I don't think I agree with people pushing to allow kids in bars.

Mandipants
by on May. 13, 2010 at 3:41 PM

Yes. And perhaps that is a whole idea for a niche business. Bars that are kid friendly--complete with warning labels :)

Quoting Joqui:

yes.. and in that case I have to side with the bar and everyone else.. there should not be any accomodations for parents with kids.. don't bring your bulky stroller... don't expect extra help and if you kid is getting cranky it's time to go .. no one should have to ruin THEIR fun because YOU want to have fun... does that make sense?

Quoting Mandipants:


Quoting Joqui:

hmmm not sure how I feel about it... I mean, is it a smoke free bar? are there peanuts on the floor? are the parents going to get hammered or just have a nice glass of wine? (just one)

I'm reluctant to jump on the 'I should take my kid anywhere I want because I have kids' bandwagon.

Kids are not 21. Isn't that the law? Why should patrons and owners of bars be forced to cater to a kid crowd? It isn't a kid world.

I tend to agree with this quote from the article...

"I will get up on the subway for kids. I will be tolerant of them kicking the back of my seat while seeing a G-rated movie. But let me have my bars," said Julieanne Smolinski, 26, who feels guilty sucking down suds in front of staring 5-year-olds. The adults who bring their offspring to bars, she suggests, are "clinging to their youth."



MamaScorpio88
by on May. 13, 2010 at 4:09 PM

I'm sorry, but when I want to socialize (have adult time) I do not want to take my kids to a bar. Bars are for adults, IMO. I would be bothered to see a young tot wandering about...

ashka88
by on May. 13, 2010 at 4:10 PM

Not really sure how I feel about it.. When I lived in Ireland, people brought their kids down to the pub all the time, it was not a big deal.. But at the same time, not everyone was drinking, and there was always someone to watch out for the little ones.. KWIM?

Mandipants
by on May. 13, 2010 at 4:12 PM


Quoting MamaScorpio88:

I'm sorry, but when I want to socialize (have adult time) I do not want to take my kids to a bar. Bars are for adults, IMO. I would be bothered to see a young tot wandering about...

I tend to feel the same way... what if it were turned around and adults were insisting that alcohol be served at 'Kiddie Gym' or the local children's only playground?

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