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[RELIGION] Objective proof of the existance of Allah (spinoff)

Posted by on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:02 AM
  • 39 Replies

This is a spin-off from the thread: Our government is out of touch with Christian America

I've tagged the post title "[RELIGION]" to help people skip the topic if they're bored by it.


QUESTION:

What objective proof is there (if any) of the existence of Allah specifically (as opposed to some other religion's version of a supernatural deity supreme being creator of the universe) ?


or, to put it another way,

On points where the Qur'an disagrees with other holy texts (such as the Jewish Torah, the Christian New Testament and the Hindu Upanishads), what objective evidence is there (if any) that we should trust the accuracy of the Qur'an 's version over the others?

by on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:02 AM
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Replies (1-10):
Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:08 AM

In the previous thread, one poster claimed the following as evidence:

1400 years ago there were no microscopes or telescopes, yet in the Qur'an there are statements about the nature of embryos, atoms, and other such things that have since been proven accurate, but only with the aid of modern technology (such as microscopes and telescopes) that were not available at the time the statements were made.

and linked to the following video:


Aasiyah
by on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:14 AM

oh you are a predicatable one LOLOLOL

Aasiyah
by on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:20 AM

I LINKED THAT VIDEO TO SHOW THAT THE MUSLIM BELIEVES WE HAVE PROOF AS WELL AS FAITH.. and to show what a chrisitan did in response to that proof...

YOU ARE MIXING TWO RESPONSES. 

at least get it right if it's gonna burn so into you that you have to create a post about it.

gee and i was tring to get away from religous posting

oh YOu forgot to post the scientist speaking about thier findings and the devine revelation.. they found astounding ...

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:20 AM

Before I look at the claimed evidence above, some general remarks (which apply equally to claims that the Bible, or any other ancient text, makes predictions about science which couldn't have been known to be correct at the time).

Firstly : It is possible to arrive at a true conclusion via invalid reasoning

Secondly : To be unusual, such a statement must be markedly different from not only the majority opinion, but also what nearly everybody was saying at the time (including the most learned scientists)

Thirdly : If you make enough statement, pure random chance will lead to some of them being correct.  To be persuasive evidence, it must also be shown that the holy text in question doesn't get any statements wrong.

Fourthly : There is a difference between a statement that can't be proven to be incompatible with current knowledge, and a statement that states the current knowledge clearly and is obviously incompatible with all other interpretations.  This difference matters, because if you make a whole load of vague statements, you can claim the accurate ones as wins, while passing off the misses as being figurative or about something else entirely.

Aasiyah
by on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:24 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUPYs0gElU&feature=player_embedded

here is a link you forgort to include..

 

 

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:24 AM
Quoting Aasiyah:

You forgot to post the scientist speaking about thier findings and the devine revelation.. they found astounding ...

No, I was just trying to repeat the barebones of the claim made.  I was hoping you'd join to fill in the meat of your argument.  Thank you for coming.

Please note that I am in no way trying to mock you.   I may disagree with your claim, but I'm still interested in examining it on its merits.  I don't dismiss it out of hand.   I'd like to hear it done justice.

Aasiyah
by on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:24 AM

The quran doesn't make vague statements. it makes concise statments.  have you read the quran? 

Aasiyah
by on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:27 AM


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting Aasiyah:

You forgot to post the scientist speaking about thier findings and the devine revelation.. they found astounding ...

No, I was just trying to repeat the barebones of the claim made.  I was hoping you'd join to fill in the meat of your argument.  Thank you for coming.

Please note that I am in no way trying to mock you.   I may disagree with your claim, but I'm still interested in examining it on its merits.  I don't dismiss it out of hand.   I'd like to hear it done justice.

well considering the claims were actually made by muslimah.. perhaps you'd want to include her.


but.. to put it in context of other religions is purely your idea.  We stuck to what we believe our proof is.. if you have proof from other books.. then lets see them. we've already shown you ours..

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:38 AM
Quoting Aasiyah:

but.. to put it in context of other religions is purely your idea.  We stuck to what we believe our proof is.. if you have proof from other books.. then lets see them. we've already shown you ours..

Claimed proofs of God's existance can be groups into different categories:

There are claimed proofs that there must have been some intelligent designed behind the creation of the Universe and life as we know it.  Arguments that fall in this category include "You can't get something from nothing", "I see proof of God's existance every time I see a beautiful sunset of hear a baby's laugh", "The physics fine constants are precisely tuned to allow carbon-based life forms to exist and time to evolve" and "The design of species shows evidence of irreducible complexity".   However such arguments are generic evidence in favour of a creator deity, rather than a particular religion's specific version of the creator deity.  They apply just as much to Christians and Hindus as they do to Muslims.

The other category is evidence specific to a particular religion.  It is this sort of evidence that was mentioned in the previous thread, so I wanted to make clear what sort of claim it was.  These sort of arguments can include "Our book is the perfect piece of literature - to read it in the original language is to understand that a deity must have guided its writing.", "there are independant eyewitness accounts of the events related in our holy book, recorded by historians.".   And the particular argument raised, which was that the book made strong predictions about the future that have come true (science claims, or fulfilled prophecies).

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 24, 2010 at 10:42 AM
Quoting Aasiyah:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUPYs0gElU&feature=player_embedded

here is a link

Thank you.




Quoting Aasiyah:

considering the claims were actually made by muslimah.. perhaps you'd want to include her.

Yes, I hope she'll join too.

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