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Bill Maher Unbaptizes Romney's Father-in-Law...Does THIS offend mormons? S/O

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If you don't want to watch the whole thing (it is worth it), the unbatism begins at 3:45...

"Women need not always keep their mouths shut and their wombs open." -Emma Goldman
 


http://masqueradingscientist.blogspot.com/




 




 




 




 

by on Feb. 15, 2012 at 8:39 PM
Replies (171-177):
kailu1835
by Ruby Member on May. 2, 2012 at 5:00 PM

 I don't know.  All I know is that they don't just pull names out of the hat.  A family member has to submit their name and prove their blood tie.

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting kailu1835:

 Anne Frank had no uncles, aunts, cousins, distant relatives, etc?  I find that hard to believe.

Sometimes mistakes are made.  Nobody is perfect, and human error is always a possibility, but it is not as common as people like to think.  They see only what they WANT to see to prove their position correct.

Quoting jillianmayasmom:

The church has admitted on more than one occasion that names were incorrectly submitted and baptisms performed that shouldn't have been. Anne Frank for instance. Her father has been dead for 30 years and she had no other family. So, which relative submitted her name and how did they prove they were related? If a family member truly does request it, while I still think it is disrespectful to the memory of the deceased, that is one thing but, in this case and that of Simon Wiesenthal and who knows how many others, absolutely disgusting.




Quoting kailu1835:

 Do you think they're just pulling names out of hats?  The only reason names go forth for baptism by proxy is if someone requests it, and there is a process they have to go through to prove that the person is a relative of theirs.  Just because someone practices Judeasim does not mean that their children or any of their other family members do. 


Baptism by proxy is hardly obscene, nor does it step on anyone's religion or rights.


I would not have had a problem with someone doing this out of concern for someone else (though I have a very hard time believing an athiest has any concern for a dead person, since they don't believe in an afterlife).  It is the spirit in which this was done.  Baptism by proxy is an act done in private with love.  Unbaptism with a witches hat and gobbldeygook speech in front of the entire country is done with disrespect and is completely over the top unacceptable.


Quoting tweety101149:


First of all most if not all Jewish people do NOT request that their deceased relatives be post humousily baptized or immersed.   Secondly if they are protected by law to practice an obscene and unnecessary  ritual,, and oversteps the rights of other people's religion.  However, given that you seem to think it is perfectly acceptable for those Mormon's that practice this, then it is perfectly acceptable to unbaptize one of their people..because of one's belief. ,,whether you think it is mockery or not.  Again, many think those Mormons that practice this make a mockery of other's religion.


Quoting kailu1835:


 It doesn't matter how many times they were told to stop.  They are protected by the constitution from government interference.  They can only baptize people based on family members' requests.  I am not presumptuous at all.  It is exactly the same thing as what Catholics do.  They don't just do pennance for their catholic family members, they do it for all of their deseased family members.  Both of my parents were raised Catholic and told me what their families did.  If a Jewish person's relative asks to have them babtized they most certainly can. 


Really, this only has as much power as people let it.  If, as many believe, the faith you die with is the one you have for eternity, then what harm does someone's good will wishes do?


Quoting tweety101149:


It is not an act of love..when it is known that numerous times they were told to stop.  It is desecrating the memory of the persons religion.   Why do assume people that don't believe in Jesus don't believe in G-d, very presumptious of you.  It is a lot different than Catholics doing pennance on behalf of their dead relatives...,their dead relatives are of the Christian faith.   Jewish people are not of the Christian faith that the Mormons are baptizing, obviously.., Bill Maher was trying to make a point.., which perhaps some people did not connect all the dots.


Quoting kailu1835:


 How completely nasty of you to villify someone's act of love.  Nobody knows what goes on in the afterlife.  What if there is a God, and you don't find out about it until you're dead, and your only hope is that someone will perform the rituals for you.  This is no different than Catholics doing pennance on behalf of their dead relatives, and has absolutely no affect on you or anyone else, so why so much anger towards people who love their deceased family members and want only the best for them?


Quoting tweety101149:


 


Quoting Jambo4:


 


 

 LOL.. I was gonna say, "Hmmm... don't remember THAT relative. ;)  I understand what you are saying about if someone died for their religion, but we all know that the what happened with the Holocaust was meant to exterminate all Jews, not just those who were devoutly practicing Judaism, but those who were of Jewish decent.  They didn't die for their faith in all circumstances.  Some, yes.. but not all.  We don't know which ones are which, but as good will the church said they wouldn't do those names.  It was an unfortunate incident where a relative of some of these deceased Jews submitted their names for baptism.  Believe it or not, this work is considered by the LDS an act of love and service for those who have gone before us.


How disgustingly arrogant of those that believe this BS.  A person should not have to be concerned about their dead relatives who do not believe like Mormons.   People of any  religion...didn't want your baptism alive..they don't want it when they are deceased... regardless of what their live Mormon relatives says.  It is desrespectful.  The good will would be offered if they kept their immersion/proxy baptism to those of your beliefs.  Besides in case you were not aware.., Judaism believes all people of good will and did no harm to anyone this is all good people of ALL FAITHS or of NO faith, will ascend to their place in heaven.  People that believe this is an act of love..., are imo not doing it out of love..., they are doing this out of self satisfaction..like Ah ha...I got another one even if they are dead.    Like I said earlier...in another reply to this post.. If I find out anyone from LDS/Morman tries to immerse one of my relatives I will raise a storm the likes nobody has ever seen.   Those apologies to those already baptised by proxy are meaningless as they are not true ., nor do I think these people really care.  That is the pity of it all.,on top of one religion feeling they have the right as Arroree put it raping the dead of the religious beliefs.       


 


 


 


 


 


 

 I'm speechless.

Anne Frank's family except for her father were all killed in the Holocaust.  He died before they started baptizing her.

Are you saying that anyone with any blood tie no matter how faint can decide they want to baptize you posthumously in the Mormon religion?

What family member of Anne Frank became a Mormon and wanted her baptized after her death? 

She died a Jew.  She died because she was a Jew. 

Good grief....

 

babiesbabybaby development

romalove
by Roma on May. 2, 2012 at 5:02 PM

 

Quoting kailu1835:

 I don't know.  All I know is that they don't just pull names out of the hat.  A family member has to submit their name and prove their blood tie.

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting kailu1835:

 Anne Frank had no uncles, aunts, cousins, distant relatives, etc?  I find that hard to believe.

Sometimes mistakes are made.  Nobody is perfect, and human error is always a possibility, but it is not as common as people like to think.  They see only what they WANT to see to prove their position correct.

Quoting jillianmayasmom:

The church has admitted on more than one occasion that names were incorrectly submitted and baptisms performed that shouldn't have been. Anne Frank for instance. Her father has been dead for 30 years and she had no other family. So, which relative submitted her name and how did they prove they were related? If a family member truly does request it, while I still think it is disrespectful to the memory of the deceased, that is one thing but, in this case and that of Simon Wiesenthal and who knows how many others, absolutely disgusting.




Quoting kailu1835:

 Do you think they're just pulling names out of hats?  The only reason names go forth for baptism by proxy is if someone requests it, and there is a process they have to go through to prove that the person is a relative of theirs.  Just because someone practices Judeasim does not mean that their children or any of their other family members do. 


Baptism by proxy is hardly obscene, nor does it step on anyone's religion or rights.


I would not have had a problem with someone doing this out of concern for someone else (though I have a very hard time believing an athiest has any concern for a dead person, since they don't believe in an afterlife).  It is the spirit in which this was done.  Baptism by proxy is an act done in private with love.  Unbaptism with a witches hat and gobbldeygook speech in front of the entire country is done with disrespect and is completely over the top unacceptable.


Quoting tweety101149:


First of all most if not all Jewish people do NOT request that their deceased relatives be post humousily baptized or immersed.   Secondly if they are protected by law to practice an obscene and unnecessary  ritual,, and oversteps the rights of other people's religion.  However, given that you seem to think it is perfectly acceptable for those Mormon's that practice this, then it is perfectly acceptable to unbaptize one of their people..because of one's belief. ,,whether you think it is mockery or not.  Again, many think those Mormons that practice this make a mockery of other's religion.


Quoting kailu1835:


 It doesn't matter how many times they were told to stop.  They are protected by the constitution from government interference.  They can only baptize people based on family members' requests.  I am not presumptuous at all.  It is exactly the same thing as what Catholics do.  They don't just do pennance for their catholic family members, they do it for all of their deseased family members.  Both of my parents were raised Catholic and told me what their families did.  If a Jewish person's relative asks to have them babtized they most certainly can. 


Really, this only has as much power as people let it.  If, as many believe, the faith you die with is the one you have for eternity, then what harm does someone's good will wishes do?


Quoting tweety101149:


It is not an act of love..when it is known that numerous times they were told to stop.  It is desecrating the memory of the persons religion.   Why do assume people that don't believe in Jesus don't believe in G-d, very presumptious of you.  It is a lot different than Catholics doing pennance on behalf of their dead relatives...,their dead relatives are of the Christian faith.   Jewish people are not of the Christian faith that the Mormons are baptizing, obviously.., Bill Maher was trying to make a point.., which perhaps some people did not connect all the dots.


Quoting kailu1835:


 How completely nasty of you to villify someone's act of love.  Nobody knows what goes on in the afterlife.  What if there is a God, and you don't find out about it until you're dead, and your only hope is that someone will perform the rituals for you.  This is no different than Catholics doing pennance on behalf of their dead relatives, and has absolutely no affect on you or anyone else, so why so much anger towards people who love their deceased family members and want only the best for them?


Quoting tweety101149:


 


Quoting Jambo4:


 


 

 LOL.. I was gonna say, "Hmmm... don't remember THAT relative. ;)  I understand what you are saying about if someone died for their religion, but we all know that the what happened with the Holocaust was meant to exterminate all Jews, not just those who were devoutly practicing Judaism, but those who were of Jewish decent.  They didn't die for their faith in all circumstances.  Some, yes.. but not all.  We don't know which ones are which, but as good will the church said they wouldn't do those names.  It was an unfortunate incident where a relative of some of these deceased Jews submitted their names for baptism.  Believe it or not, this work is considered by the LDS an act of love and service for those who have gone before us.


How disgustingly arrogant of those that believe this BS.  A person should not have to be concerned about their dead relatives who do not believe like Mormons.   People of any  religion...didn't want your baptism alive..they don't want it when they are deceased... regardless of what their live Mormon relatives says.  It is desrespectful.  The good will would be offered if they kept their immersion/proxy baptism to those of your beliefs.  Besides in case you were not aware.., Judaism believes all people of good will and did no harm to anyone this is all good people of ALL FAITHS or of NO faith, will ascend to their place in heaven.  People that believe this is an act of love..., are imo not doing it out of love..., they are doing this out of self satisfaction..like Ah ha...I got another one even if they are dead.    Like I said earlier...in another reply to this post.. If I find out anyone from LDS/Morman tries to immerse one of my relatives I will raise a storm the likes nobody has ever seen.   Those apologies to those already baptised by proxy are meaningless as they are not true ., nor do I think these people really care.  That is the pity of it all.,on top of one religion feeling they have the right as Arroree put it raping the dead of the religious beliefs.       


 


 


 


 


 


 

 I'm speechless.

Anne Frank's family except for her father were all killed in the Holocaust.  He died before they started baptizing her.

Are you saying that anyone with any blood tie no matter how faint can decide they want to baptize you posthumously in the Mormon religion?

What family member of Anne Frank became a Mormon and wanted her baptized after her death? 

She died a Jew.  She died because she was a Jew. 

Good grief....

 

 That may be "how" it is supposed to be but in that instance it didn't happen that way.

Firstly, it happened multiple times.

Secondly, the Mormon Church apologized and said it wouldn't happen again.

Then it happened again.

I don't even like how you think it's supposed to happen, let alone how it did happen. 

kailu1835
by Ruby Member on May. 2, 2012 at 5:12 PM

 .

Quote:

“It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place,” LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy said in a statement Tuesday, responding to the report about the Anne Frank baptism.

----

“The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism,” said Purdy in his Tuesday statement.

The church said it is “committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter’s access privileges,” the statement continued. “We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken.”


Quote:

"The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism," the Salt Lake City-based church said. "It is distressing when an individual willfully violates the Church's policy and something that should be understood to be an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention."
Quote:

Larry Bair, the president of the Mormon temple of Santo Domingo, said Thursday he had looked into the reports but was unable to verify that Frank had been baptized.

If it did occur, Bair told the AP, "it was a mistake."

---

"While no system is foolproof in preventing the handful of individuals who are determined to falsify submissions, we are committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter's access privileges," the church said in its statement.


It wasn't supposed to happen, since the 1995 agreement not to posthumously baptize holocaust victims, and I don't seen anywhere that it happened more than once.

Quoting romalove:

 That may be "how" it is supposed to be but in that instance it didn't happen that way.

Firstly, it happened multiple times.

Secondly, the Mormon Church apologized and said it wouldn't happen again.

Then it happened again.

I don't even like how you think it's supposed to happen, let alone how it did happen. 

 

babiesbabybaby development

tweety101149
by Platinum Member on May. 2, 2012 at 9:39 PM


Quoting kailu1835:

 .

Quote:

“It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place,” LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy said in a statement Tuesday, responding to the report about the Anne Frank baptism.

----

“The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism,” said Purdy in his Tuesday statement.

The church said it is “committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter’s access privileges,” the statement continued. “We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken.”


Quote:

"The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism," the Salt Lake City-based church said. "It is distressing when an individual willfully violates the Church's policy and something that should be understood to be an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention."
Quote:

Larry Bair, the president of the Mormon temple of Santo Domingo, said Thursday he had looked into the reports but was unable to verify that Frank had been baptized.

If it did occur, Bair told the AP, "it was a mistake."

---

"While no system is foolproof in preventing the handful of individuals who are determined to falsify submissions, we are committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter's access privileges," the church said in its statement.


It wasn't supposed to happen, since the 1995 agreement not to posthumously baptize holocaust victims, and I don't seen anywhere that it happened more than once.

Quoting romalove:

 That may be "how" it is supposed to be but in that instance it didn't happen that way.

Firstly, it happened multiple times.

Secondly, the Mormon Church apologized and said it wouldn't happen again.

Then it happened again.

I don't even like how you think it's supposed to happen, let alone how it did happen. 

 

And it keeps happening. It is disrespectful enough when they post-humously "baptize" or immerse if you prefer that word, people in general who are not Mormon or (Christian), but to baptize the holocaust survivors is beyond disrespectful it is outrageous.  It is not a gift when the Mormon Church has been told numerous times not to do this.  You cited religious freedom so the government can't do anything about it, and you claim..Mr Maher made a mockery of the religion when he "unbaptized" Romney's FIL, it is hypocritical for you to say that, what about the religious freedom of other religions that the Mormons apparently don't don't respect with their "loving gifts", it is also a mockery of other's beliefs when the Mormon church post-humously baptizes.  It is the act itself of obstinence of other's beliefs.  The argument of the soul accepting it or not doesn't hold weight..., since nobody knows what after death is like.  It is the disregard for a  person's beliefs during their life Mormon's are making a mockery of.

 

Mormons try to baptize Anne Frank, again

Mormons believe that posthumous baptism by proxy allows the dead person to “receive the gospel” in the afterlife. They believe that once this departed soul receives the gospel, they can then choose whether they receive it or not. Although this may have been done with good intentions, it cannot be forgotten that they broke an agreement, and that the reason Anne Frank is famous was because of her losing her life for her religious beliefs. Apparently, she was baptized not once, but nine times.

Apparently Anne Frank is not the only Jewish person that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has baptized after death. They seem to target many Jewish leaders, including Elie Wiesel. Holocaust survivors have spoken out against it. Although I am open-minded to believe that the Mormon-based group has good intentions, they did this 15 years ago and agreed not to do it again. This is not the first time they have tried baptizing Holocaust victims, and it is disrespectful to their families. When I think of Anne Frank, I will remember her as an amazing girl who had many dreams, but died of persecution, not as a Mormon, but a Jew. I will not remember her as Mormon, but for the incredible diary she wrote and left behind.

http://www.oswegonian.com/opinion/6423/mormons-try-to-baptize-anne-frank-again/

 

 

butterfly on headlynda  




kailu1835
by Ruby Member on May. 2, 2012 at 10:25 PM

 I've seen this before the last time it was posted.  There isn't any evidence that she was ever baptized by proxy more than the one time.  The article says "again" but then doesn't ever state when she was baptized prior.

The church has agreed to not baptize holocaust survivors.  Read the other response with a bunch of quotes I posted.

 Quoting tweety101149:

Quoting kailu1835:

 .

Quote:

“It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place,” LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy said in a statement Tuesday, responding to the report about the Anne Frank baptism.

----

“The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism,” said Purdy in his Tuesday statement.

The church said it is “committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter’s access privileges,” the statement continued. “We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken.”


Quote:

"The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism," the Salt Lake City-based church said. "It is distressing when an individual willfully violates the Church's policy and something that should be understood to be an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention."
Quote:

Larry Bair, the president of the Mormon temple of Santo Domingo, said Thursday he had looked into the reports but was unable to verify that Frank had been baptized.

If it did occur, Bair told the AP, "it was a mistake."

---

"While no system is foolproof in preventing the handful of individuals who are determined to falsify submissions, we are committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter's access privileges," the church said in its statement.


It wasn't supposed to happen, since the 1995 agreement not to posthumously baptize holocaust victims, and I don't seen anywhere that it happened more than once.

Quoting romalove:

 That may be "how" it is supposed to be but in that instance it didn't happen that way.

Firstly, it happened multiple times.

Secondly, the Mormon Church apologized and said it wouldn't happen again.

Then it happened again.

I don't even like how you think it's supposed to happen, let alone how it did happen. 

 

And it keeps happening. It is disrespectful enough when they post-humously "baptize" or immerse if you prefer that word, people in general who are not Mormon or (Christian), but to baptize the holocaust survivors is beyond disrespectful it is outrageous.  It is not a gift when the Mormon Church has been told numerous times not to do this.  You cited religious freedom so the government can't do anything about it, and you claim..Mr Maher made a mockery of the religion when he "unbaptized" Romney's FIL, it is hypocritical for you to say that, what about the religious freedom of other religions that the Mormons apparently don't don't respect with their "loving gifts", it is also a mockery of other's beliefs when the Mormon church post-humously baptizes.  It is the act itself of obstinence of other's beliefs.  The argument of the soul accepting it or not doesn't hold weight..., since nobody knows what after death is like.  It is the disregard for a  person's beliefs during their life Mormon's are making a mockery of.

 

Mormons try to baptize Anne Frank, again

Mormons believe that posthumous baptism by proxy allows the dead person to “receive the gospel” in the afterlife. They believe that once this departed soul receives the gospel, they can then choose whether they receive it or not. Although this may have been done with good intentions, it cannot be forgotten that they broke an agreement, and that the reason Anne Frank is famous was because of her losing her life for her religious beliefs. Apparently, she was baptized not once, but nine times.

Apparently Anne Frank is not the only Jewish person that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has baptized after death. They seem to target many Jewish leaders, including Elie Wiesel. Holocaust survivors have spoken out against it. Although I am open-minded to believe that the Mormon-based group has good intentions, they did this 15 years ago and agreed not to do it again. This is not the first time they have tried baptizing Holocaust victims, and it is disrespectful to their families. When I think of Anne Frank, I will remember her as an amazing girl who had many dreams, but died of persecution, not as a Mormon, but a Jew. I will not remember her as Mormon, but for the incredible diary she wrote and left behind.

http://www.oswegonian.com/opinion/6423/mormons-try-to-baptize-anne-frank-again/

 

 

 

babiesbabybaby development

jillianmayasmom
by Bronze Member on May. 2, 2012 at 10:26 PM
Good grief. Even if she did, if one of them had asked for a baptism, don't you think the church would have released that information? Especially in light of all of the bad publicity this has received. It has been done multiple times, they promised to stop and it didn't. It is disgusting and disrespectful to the memories of the deceased.

I wonder if some people would be singing a different time if someone immersed themself in the mikvah as a proxy for Pope John Paul and declared him a Jew. Or Joseph Smith. My guess is that people would be outraged.

Quoting kailu1835:

 Anne Frank had no uncles, aunts, cousins, distant relatives, etc?  I find that hard to believe.


Sometimes mistakes are made.  Nobody is perfect, and human error is always a possibility, but it is not as common as people like to think.  They see only what they WANT to see to prove their position correct.


Quoting jillianmayasmom:

The church has admitted on more than one occasion that names were incorrectly submitted and baptisms performed that shouldn't have been. Anne Frank for instance. Her father has been dead for 30 years and she had no other family. So, which relative submitted her name and how did they prove they were related? If a family member truly does request it, while I still think it is disrespectful to the memory of the deceased, that is one thing but, in this case and that of Simon Wiesenthal and who knows how many others, absolutely disgusting.





Quoting kailu1835:


 Do you think they're just pulling names out of hats?  The only reason names go forth for baptism by proxy is if someone requests it, and there is a process they have to go through to prove that the person is a relative of theirs.  Just because someone practices Judeasim does not mean that their children or any of their other family members do. 



Baptism by proxy is hardly obscene, nor does it step on anyone's religion or rights.



I would not have had a problem with someone doing this out of concern for someone else (though I have a very hard time believing an athiest has any concern for a dead person, since they don't believe in an afterlife).  It is the spirit in which this was done.  Baptism by proxy is an act done in private with love.  Unbaptism with a witches hat and gobbldeygook speech in front of the entire country is done with disrespect and is completely over the top unacceptable.



Quoting tweety101149:



First of all most if not all Jewish people do NOT request that their deceased relatives be post humousily baptized or immersed.   Secondly if they are protected by law to practice an obscene and unnecessary  ritual,, and oversteps the rights of other people's religion.  However, given that you seem to think it is perfectly acceptable for those Mormon's that practice this, then it is perfectly acceptable to unbaptize one of their people..because of one's belief. ,,whether you think it is mockery or not.  Again, many think those Mormons that practice this make a mockery of other's religion.



Quoting kailu1835:



 It doesn't matter how many times they were told to stop.  They are protected by the constitution from government interference.  They can only baptize people based on family members' requests.  I am not presumptuous at all.  It is exactly the same thing as what Catholics do.  They don't just do pennance for their catholic family members, they do it for all of their deseased family members.  Both of my parents were raised Catholic and told me what their families did.  If a Jewish person's relative asks to have them babtized they most certainly can. 



Really, this only has as much power as people let it.  If, as many believe, the faith you die with is the one you have for eternity, then what harm does someone's good will wishes do?



Quoting tweety101149:



It is not an act of love..when it is known that numerous times they were told to stop.  It is desecrating the memory of the persons religion.   Why do assume people that don't believe in Jesus don't believe in G-d, very presumptious of you.  It is a lot different than Catholics doing pennance on behalf of their dead relatives...,their dead relatives are of the Christian faith.   Jewish people are not of the Christian faith that the Mormons are baptizing, obviously.., Bill Maher was trying to make a point.., which perhaps some people did not connect all the dots.



Quoting kailu1835:



 How completely nasty of you to villify someone's act of love.  Nobody knows what goes on in the afterlife.  What if there is a God, and you don't find out about it until you're dead, and your only hope is that someone will perform the rituals for you.  This is no different than Catholics doing pennance on behalf of their dead relatives, and has absolutely no affect on you or anyone else, so why so much anger towards people who love their deceased family members and want only the best for them?



Quoting tweety101149:



 



Quoting Jambo4:



 



 


 LOL.. I was gonna say, "Hmmm... don't remember THAT relative. ;)  I understand what you are saying about if someone died for their religion, but we all know that the what happened with the Holocaust was meant to exterminate all Jews, not just those who were devoutly practicing Judaism, but those who were of Jewish decent.  They didn't die for their faith in all circumstances.  Some, yes.. but not all.  We don't know which ones are which, but as good will the church said they wouldn't do those names.  It was an unfortunate incident where a relative of some of these deceased Jews submitted their names for baptism.  Believe it or not, this work is considered by the LDS an act of love and service for those who have gone before us.



How disgustingly arrogant of those that believe this BS.  A person should not have to be concerned about their dead relatives who do not believe like Mormons.   People of any  religion...didn't want your baptism alive..they don't want it when they are deceased... regardless of what their live Mormon relatives says.  It is desrespectful.  The good will would be offered if they kept their immersion/proxy baptism to those of your beliefs.  Besides in case you were not aware.., Judaism believes all people of good will and did no harm to anyone this is all good people of ALL FAITHS or of NO faith, will ascend to their place in heaven.  People that believe this is an act of love..., are imo not doing it out of love..., they are doing this out of self satisfaction..like Ah ha...I got another one even if they are dead.    Like I said earlier...in another reply to this post.. If I find out anyone from LDS/Morman tries to immerse one of my relatives I will raise a storm the likes nobody has ever seen.   Those apologies to those already baptised by proxy are meaningless as they are not true ., nor do I think these people really care.  That is the pity of it all.,on top of one religion feeling they have the right as Arroree put it raping the dead of the religious beliefs.       



 



 



 



 



 



 



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tweety101149
by Platinum Member on May. 2, 2012 at 11:02 PM

Yet, you keep justifying the "baptism".  Again as Roma stated Anne Frank's entire family perished in the ashes of the holocaust, except for her father and Meip the lady that brought them food and news.  Meip was the one the one the found and safe-guarded her diary.  Gave it to her father when the met up again  No living relative asked for her or Eli Wisel's to be "baptized". I believe this is the 9th time...see below.

Mormon Baptism Targets Anne Frank -- Again

 First Posted: 02/21/2012 6:45 pm Updated: 02/23/2012 12:50 pm

Anne Frank, the Jewish girl whose diary and death in a Nazi concentration camp made her a symbol of the Holocaust, was allegedly baptized posthumously Saturday by a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, according to whistleblower Helen Radkey, a former member of the church.

The ritual was conducted in a Mormon temple in the Dominican Republic, according to Radkey, a Salt Lake City researcher who investigates such incidents, which violate a 2010 pact between the Mormon Church and Jewish leaders.

Radkey said she discovered that Annelies Marie "Anne" Frank, who died at Bergen Belsen death camp in 1945 at age 15, was baptized by proxy on Saturday. Mormons have submitted versions of her name at least a dozen times for proxy rites and carried out the ritual at least nine times from 1989 to 1999, according to Radkey. But Radkey says this is the first time in more than a decade that Frank's name has been discovered in a database that can be used both for genealogy and also to submit a deceased person's name to be considered for proxy baptism -- a separate process, according to a spokesman for the church. The database is only open to Mormons.

A screen shot of the database sent by Radkey shows a page for Frank stating "completed" next to categories labeled "Baptism" and "Confirmation," with the date Feb. 18, 2012, and the name of the Santo Domingo Dominican Republic Temple.

As The Huffington Post has reported, Mormon posthumous proxy baptisms for Holocaust victims or Jews who are not direct descendants of Mormons has continued, despite church vows to stop such practices.

Negotiations between Mormon and Jewish leaders led to a 1995 agreement for the church to stop the posthumous baptism of all Jews, except in the case of direct ancestors of Mormons, but Radkey says she found that some Mormons had failed to adhere to the agreement.

The name of Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel was recently submitted to the restricted genealogy website as "ready" for posthumous proxy baptism, though the church says the rite is reserved for the deceased, and Wiesel is alive. Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor, was among a group of Jewish leaders who campaigned against the practice and prompted the 2010 pact by which the Mormon Church promises to at least prevent proxy baptism requests for Holocaust victims.

Wiesel last week called on Republican presidential candidate and Mormon Mitt Romney, a former Mormon bishop who has donated millions to the church, to speak out about the practice.

The Romney campaign has previously refused to comment and referred The Huffington Post to the LDS church. HuffPost emailed a church spokesman for comment Tuesday, but did not immediately receive a reply.

Radkey's discovery of another possible proxy baptism for Frank follows an apology from the Mormon Church last week for recent posthumous baptisms of Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal's parents.

Radkey noted that the latest baptism of Frank by proxy is especially egregious, because she was an unmarried teenager who left no descendants. Mormon officials have stressed that church members are only supposed to submit the names of their ancestors, in accordance with the agreements.

"The security of the names submissions process for posthumous rites must be questioned, in view of the rash of prominent Jewish Holocaust names that have recently appeared on Mormon temple rolls," Radkey said about her latest find. "This one sailed straight through, with Anne's correct name in their 'secure' database."

Radkey said she expects once word gets out that church officials will scrub the records as they did with Wiesel and Weisenthal's parents.

The Mormon Church responded later Tuesday in a statement by spokesman Michael Purdy, sent to The Huffington Post: "The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism."

"While no system is foolproof in preventing the handful of individuals who are determined to falsify submissions we are committed to taking action against individual abusers," the statement says, "It is distressing when an individual willfully violates the Church's policy and something that should be understood to be an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention."

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this story stated that as the HuffPost has reported, the practice of Mormon posthumous proxy baptism has continued, despite church vows to stop. The correct, more specific reference is to incidents of posthumous proxy baptism for Holocaust victims or Jews who are not direct descendants of Mormons, which the Mormon Church has vowed to stop.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/21/mormons-posthumous-baptism-anne-frank_n_1292102.html
 

Other articles that have reported this abuse by the Mormon church.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/15/local/la-me-0215-mormon-baptism-20120215

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/us/jews-take-issue-with-posthumous-mormon-baptisms-beliefs.html

 

 

Quoting kailu1835:

 I've seen this before the last time it was posted.  There isn't any evidence that she was ever baptized by proxy more than the one time.  The article says "again" but then doesn't ever state when she was baptized prior.

The church has agreed to not baptize holocaust survivors.  Read the other response with a bunch of quotes I posted.

 Quoting tweety101149:

Quoting kailu1835:

 .

Quote:

 "It takes a good deal of deception and manipulation to get an improper submission through the safeguards we have put in place," LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy said in a statement Tuesday, responding to the report about the Anne Frank baptism.

----

"The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism," said Purdy in his Tuesday statement.

The church said it is "committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter's access privileges," the statement continued. "We will also consider whether other Church disciplinary action should be taken."


Quote:

"The Church keeps its word and is absolutely firm in its commitment to not accept the names of Holocaust victims for proxy baptism," the Salt Lake City-based church said. "It is distressing when an individual willfully violates the Church's policy and something that should be understood to be an offering based on love and respect becomes a source of contention."
Quote:

Larry Bair, the president of the Mormon temple of Santo Domingo, said Thursday he had looked into the reports but was unable to verify that Frank had been baptized.

If it did occur, Bair told the AP, "it was a mistake."

---

"While no system is foolproof in preventing the handful of individuals who are determined to falsify submissions, we are committed to taking action against individual abusers by suspending the submitter's access privileges," the church said in its statement.


It wasn't supposed to happen, since the 1995 agreement not to posthumously baptize holocaust victims, and I don't seen anywhere that it happened more than once.

Quoting romalove:

 That may be "how" it is supposed to be but in that instance it didn't happen that way.

Firstly, it happened multiple times.

Secondly, the Mormon Church apologized and said it wouldn't happen again.

Then it happened again.

I don't even like how you think it's supposed to happen, let alone how it did happen. 

 

And it keeps happening. It is disrespectful enough when they post-humously "baptize" or immerse if you prefer that word, people in general who are not Mormon or (Christian), but to baptize the holocaust survivors is beyond disrespectful it is outrageous.  It is not a gift when the Mormon Church has been told numerous times not to do this.  You cited religious freedom so the government can't do anything about it, and you claim..Mr Maher made a mockery of the religion when he "unbaptized" Romney's FIL, it is hypocritical for you to say that, what about the religious freedom of other religions that the Mormons apparently don't don't respect with their "loving gifts", it is also a mockery of other's beliefs when the Mormon church post-humously baptizes.  It is the act itself of obstinence of other's beliefs.  The argument of the soul accepting it or not doesn't hold weight..., since nobody knows what after death is like.  It is the disregard for a  person's beliefs during their life Mormon's are making a mockery of.

 

Mormons try to baptize Anne Frank, again

Mormons believe that posthumous baptism by proxy allows the dead person to "receive the gospel" in the afterlife. They believe that once this departed soul receives the gospel, they can then choose whether they receive it or not. Although this may have been done with good intentions, it cannot be forgotten that they broke an agreement, and that the reason Anne Frank is famous was because of her losing her life for her religious beliefs. Apparently, she was baptized not once, but nine times.

Apparently Anne Frank is not the only Jewish person that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has baptized after death. They seem to target many Jewish leaders, including Elie Wiesel. Holocaust survivors have spoken out against it. Although I am open-minded to believe that the Mormon-based group has good intentions, they did this 15 years ago and agreed not to do it again. This is not the first time they have tried baptizing Holocaust victims, and it is disrespectful to their families. When I think of Anne Frank, I will remember her as an amazing girl who had many dreams, but died of persecution, not as a Mormon, but a Jew. I will not remember her as Mormon, but for the incredible diary she wrote and left behind.

http://www.oswegonian.com/opinion/6423/mormons-try-to-baptize-anne-frank-again/

 

 

 

 

butterfly on headlynda  




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