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"It is the Shariah law of ALL Muslims and ALL Afghans" This is why Shariah law can stay out of the U.S.A.

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Afghan President Endorses Shocking ‘Code of Conduct' for Women That Allows Wife-Beating

 

Afghanistans President Punishes Women in Taliban OutreachKABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Afghanistan's president on Tuesday endorsed a "code of conduct" issued by an influential council of clerics that activists say represents a giant step backward for women's rights in the country.

President Hamid Karzai‘s Tuesday remarks backing the Ulema Council's document, which allows husbands to beat wives under certain circumstances and encourages segregation of the sexes, is seen as part of his outreach to insurgents like the Taliban.

Both the U.S. and Karzai hope that the Taliban can be brought into negotiations to end the country's decade-long war. But activists say they're worried that gains made by women since 2001 may be lost in the process.

When the Taliban ruled Afghanistan prior to the 2001 U.S. invasion, girls were banned from going to school and women had to wear burqas that covered them from head to toe. Women were not allowed to leave their homes without a male relative as an escort.

The "code of conduct" issued Friday by the Ulema Council as part of a longer statement on national political issues is cast as a set of guidelines that religious women should obey voluntarily, but activists are concerned it will herald a reversal of the trend in Afghanistan since 2001 to pass laws aimed at expanding women's rights.

Among the rules: Women should not travel without a male guardian and women should not mingle with strange men in places like schools, markets or offices. Beating one's wife is prohibited only if there is no "Shariah-compliant reason," it said, referring to the principles of Islamic law. 

Asked about the code of conduct at a press conference in the capital, Karzai said it was in line with Islamic law and was written in consultation with Afghan women's groups. He did not name the groups that were consulted.

"The clerics' council of Afghanistan did not put any limitations on women," Karzai said, adding: "It is the Shariah law of all Muslims and all Afghans."

Karzai‘s public backing of the council's guidelines may be intended to make his own government more palatable to the Taliban, or he may simply be trying to keep on the good side of the Ulema Council, who could be valuable intermediaries in speaking to the insurgents.

But either way, women‘s activists say that Karzai's endorsement means that existing or planned laws aimed at protecting women's rights may be sacrificed for peace negotiations.

"It sends a really frightening message that women can expect to get sold out in this process," said Heather Barr, an Afghanistan researcher for New York-based Human Rights Watch.

Shukria Barikzai, a parliamentarian from the capital Kabul who has been active in women's issues, said she was worried that Karzai and the clerics‘ council appeared to be ignoring their country's own laws.

"When it comes to civil rights in Afghanistan, Karzai should respect the constitution," Barikzai said. The Afghan constitution provides equal rights for men and women.

The exception for certain types of beatings also appears to contradict Afghan law that prohibits spousal abuse. And the guidelines also promote rules on divorce that give women few rights, a real turnaround from pledges by Karzai to reform Afghan family law to make divorces more equitable, Barr said.

"This represents a significant change in his message on women's rights," she said.

Afghan women's rights activist Fatana Ishaq Gailani, founder of the Afghanistan Women's Council, said she feels like women's rights are being used as part of a political game.

"We want the correct Islam, not the Islam of politics," Gailani said. She said she supported negotiations with the Taliban, but that Afghanistan's women should not be sacrificed for that end.

Hadi Marifat of the Afghanistan Human Rights and Democracy Organization, which surveyed 5,000 Afghan women for a recent report on the state of women's rights in Afghanistan, argued that the statements show Karzai is shifting more toward the strictest interpretations of Shariah law.

"In the post-Taliban Afghanistan, the guiding principle of President Karzai regarding women's rights has been attracting funding from the international community on one hand, balanced against the need to get the support of the Ulema Council and other traditionalists on the other," Marifat said.

"The concerning thing is that now this balance is shifting toward the conservative element, and that was obvious in his statement."

by on Mar. 6, 2012 at 5:41 PM
Replies (41-50):
12hellokitty
by Ruby Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:13 PM

The canon law of the Catholic Church, is a fully developed legal system, with all the necessary elements: courts, lawyers, judges, a fully articulated legal code and principles of legal interpretation. It lacks the necessary binding force present in most modern day legal systems. The academic degrees in canon law are the J.C.B. (Juris Canonici Baccalaureatus, Bachelor of Canon Law, normally taken as a graduate degree), J.C.L. (Juris Canonici Licentiatus, Licentiate of Canon Law) and the J.C.D. (Juris Canonici Doctor, Doctor of Canon Law). Because of its specialized nature, advanced degrees in civil law or theology are normal prerequisites for the study of canon law.

 

Sharia law, (Arabic: شريعةšarīʿah, IPA: [ʃaˈriːʕa], "legislation"; sp. shariah, sharīʿah;[1] also Islamic law, قانون إسلامي qānūn ʾIslāmī ) is the moral code and religious law of Islam. Sharia is derived from two primary sources of Islamic law: the precepts set forth in the Quran, and the example set by the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the Sunnah. Islamic jurisprudence (see Fiqh) interprets and extends the application of sharia to questions not directly addressed in the primary sources by including secondary sources. These secondary sources usually include the consensus of the religious scholars embodied in ijma, and analogy from the Quran and Sunnah through qiyas. Shia jurists prefer to apply reasoning ('aql) rather than analogy in order to address difficult questions.

mommajen32
by Platinum Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting pvtjokerus:

It is not about being afraid of Shariah.  It is about being fed up with those that believe that they can ABUSE women within this law.  This is just what the Saudis do in their own country.....remember that conversation?




Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. Eph. 5:22 (NIV)

Do you realize how many men and pastors used (and use) this and several other verses to beat their wives? We are no long from the days in America where domestic violence was merely "family business" and the police turned their heads - where they returned wives home to their husbands. We can stand now post-1970s and tsk, tsk the rest of the world ... but the June Cleavers of the world wore many a black eye. I say this as one who has worked in DV shelters. And absolutely many have and do use the Bible as a means to justify their abuse as head of the house to beat their wives and "spare the rod" b.s.  to beat their children. 

There's much work to do with the women HERE that are beaten every single day before we take the plank out of the rest of the world. Unless of course you are spreading the message to help others across the globe and not just to spread misinformation about an entire religion that consists of several hundred million people in that exists in many different cultures on every continent on Earth. 

You realize that is like taking the Klan (Christian) and saying the rest of Christians are like them, right? If you didn't realize the power the Klan had at one point in our national politics look up Woodrow Wilson. 

stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:14 PM
3 moms liked this

I believe I have seen your replies in many of the threads that addressed Sharia.  I find it hard to believe that after all the discussion on the subject you still have no concept about what Sharia is.  

Here's an example: I was married in a mosque, by an Imam.  I was also married at the same time legally in my state.  Just like my friends who got married in the Catholic Church.  Now, I can get a legal divorce in my state.  I can also get a divorce under Sharia, and I would have to do so for the Imam to consider me divorced.  I could get a divorce under Sharia, but I would still be legally married.  Do you really not get that? Now, my Catholic friend could get a legal divorce, but unless she got an annulment from the Church her Priest would refuse to marry her again in his Church.  Now are you going to outlaw the practice of the Catholic Church for the people who wish to follow it?  Or is it just the Muslims who can't follow their religion?

Quoting cammibear:

So you are saying you cannot separate your religion from Sharia Law?

Because you are free to practice any religion as long as it doesn't violate constitutional rights. And no, I'm honestly not sure why Jewish or catholic courts are necessary either.


TruthSeeker.
by Milami on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:22 PM

 What cases?

Quoting cammibear:

Yes we do, which is why if Sharia is compatible with our Constitutional laws one would wonder why they have to have Sharia courts. There have been cases on the state level where sharia law took precedent over constitutional law. I have a problem with that. It's a slippery slope...


Quoting TruthSeeker.:

 Your post title says different. It says this is why it should stay out of America.  That implies you feel the same would happen here. It's sad that leaders elsewhere are condoning hitting anyone, but that doesn't mean this will happen in the US. We have laws that protect our citizens. All of our citizens.


yourspecialkid
by Platinum Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:22 PM

 

Quoting H_Tunisia_Remix:

I don't think the people using these horror stories realize how upsetting countries/cultures like the one in the OP are to Muslim people. Human rights groups exist among Muslims to try and stop these things. If they were normal ideas, they wouldn't be important enough to require a statement from the president of said Muslim country, nor would it make the news. It is hard to stop ignorant cultural traditions, especially when the people have been taught for years these non-Islami ideas are Islamic. That's a huge battle to fight and it isn't won over night.

Holy moly, I will spell it out for everyone, these cultural ideas that are in a few Muslim countries scare the shit out of many Muslims and make us all scared for our daughters (or in my case at this point hypothetical daughter).

 I agree with you.  It isn't helpful when someone like one of the posters on here tells us all to just "suck it up" though...kwim.

My husband was deployed to Afghanistan and I had the opportunity to become friends with several women over there.  Hearing this just makes my heart break for them.

 

muslimahpj
by Ruby Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:29 PM


Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting pvtjokerus:

It is not about being afraid of Shariah.  It is about being fed up with those that believe that they can ABUSE women within this law.  This is just what the Saudis do in their own country.....remember that conversation?




Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. Eph. 5:22 (NIV)

Do you realize how many men and pastors used (and use) this and several other verses to beat their wives? We are no long from the days in America where domestic violence was merely "family business" and the police turned their heads - where they returned wives home to their husbands. We can stand now post-1970s and tsk, tsk the rest of the world ... but the June Cleavers of the world wore many a black eye. I say this as one who has worked in DV shelters. And absolutely many have and do use the Bible as a means to justify their abuse as head of the house to beat their wives and "spare the rod" b.s.  to beat their children. 

There's much work to do with the women HERE that are beaten every single day before we take the plank out of the rest of the world. Unless of course you are spreading the message to help others across the globe and not just to spread misinformation about an entire religion that consists of several hundred million people in that exists in many different cultures on every continent on Earth. 

You realize that is like taking the Klan (Christian) and saying the rest of Christians are like them, right? If you didn't realize the power the Klan had at one point in our national politics look up Woodrow Wilson. 

That happened with my grandparents, who are christian. He was an abusive alcoholic and one time my grandmother locked him out of the house after he beat her, the cops knocked on the door and told her that she couldnt do that and she had to let him back in the house.

As far as wanting to help the situation in Afghanistan, that is why I posted the link to RAWA, that way, instead of just sitting on here speaking ill of what they do  not know or understand, they can start to educate themselves on the situation over there.

muslimahpj
by Ruby Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:31 PM


Quoting yourspecialkid:

 

Quoting H_Tunisia_Remix:

I don't think the people using these horror stories realize how upsetting countries/cultures like the one in the OP are to Muslim people. Human rights groups exist among Muslims to try and stop these things. If they were normal ideas, they wouldn't be important enough to require a statement from the president of said Muslim country, nor would it make the news. It is hard to stop ignorant cultural traditions, especially when the people have been taught for years these non-Islami ideas are Islamic. That's a huge battle to fight and it isn't won over night.

Holy moly, I will spell it out for everyone, these cultural ideas that are in a few Muslim countries scare the shit out of many Muslims and make us all scared for our daughters (or in my case at this point hypothetical daughter).

 I agree with you.  It isn't helpful when someone like one of the posters on here tells us all to just "suck it up" though...kwim.

My husband was deployed to Afghanistan and I had the opportunity to become friends with several women over there.  Hearing this just makes my heart break for them.

 

Suck it up wasnt the only option listed. People dont want to be told to get over it, accept it or suck it up, then stop spreading false information. Besides, my comment to that was, Sharia is here, has always been here and will always be here. So, learn the truth on it.

muslimahpj
by Ruby Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:34 PM
2 moms liked this

Forget the word law, because you are giving meaning to it that it does not have in this context.

No, I cannot seperate practicing my religion from Shariah, since Sharia sets out how I am to pray, eat, clean myself, marry, divorce, inherite, etc.

As many times as you have been involved in posts about Shariah and you still claim ignorance on what it is, you are either being willfully ignorant about it or you just dont care and want to keep the fear and hate alive.

Quoting cammibear:

So you are saying you cannot separate your religion from Sharia Law?

Because you are free to practice any religion as long as it doesn't violate constitutional rights. And no, I'm honestly not sure why Jewish or catholic courts are necessary either.


Quoting muslimahpj:

So, then you are against freedom of religion unless it's your own. Good to know.

Let me ask you this: Are you aware that shariah, bet din and cannon laws have all been in place and practiced in the US since the beginning of this counrty?

Quoting cammibear:

Yes, I am. I do not see the need for "special" courts no matter who it is.





Quoting muslimahpj:

The same reason that Jews have their courts and catholics have theirs. Are you against any of those? Didnt think so.

Quoting cammibear:

Yes we do, which is why if Sharia is compatible with our Constitutional laws one would wonder why they have to have Sharia courts. There have been cases on the state level where sharia law took precedent over constitutional law. I have a problem with that. It's a slippery slope...








Quoting TruthSeeker.:

 Your post title says different. It says this is why it should stay out of America.  That implies you feel the same would happen here. It's sad that leaders elsewhere are condoning hitting anyone, but that doesn't mean this will happen in the US. We have laws that protect our citizens. All of our citizens.




Quoting pvtjokerus:




It is not about being afraid of Shariah.  It is about being fed up with those that believe that they can ABUSE women within this law.  This is just what the Saudis do in their own country.....remember that conversation?




 










stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:34 PM

That is a sad story, and all too common in this country.  Thanks for the link, but I doubt people will take the time to edcate themselves.  

Quoting muslimahpj:


Quoting mommajen32:


Quoting pvtjokerus:

It is not about being afraid of Shariah.  It is about being fed up with those that believe that they can ABUSE women within this law.  This is just what the Saudis do in their own country.....remember that conversation?




Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. Eph. 5:22 (NIV)

Do you realize how many men and pastors used (and use) this and several other verses to beat their wives? We are no long from the days in America where domestic violence was merely "family business" and the police turned their heads - where they returned wives home to their husbands. We can stand now post-1970s and tsk, tsk the rest of the world ... but the June Cleavers of the world wore many a black eye. I say this as one who has worked in DV shelters. And absolutely many have and do use the Bible as a means to justify their abuse as head of the house to beat their wives and "spare the rod" b.s.  to beat their children. 

There's much work to do with the women HERE that are beaten every single day before we take the plank out of the rest of the world. Unless of course you are spreading the message to help others across the globe and not just to spread misinformation about an entire religion that consists of several hundred million people in that exists in many different cultures on every continent on Earth. 

You realize that is like taking the Klan (Christian) and saying the rest of Christians are like them, right? If you didn't realize the power the Klan had at one point in our national politics look up Woodrow Wilson. 

That happened with my grandparents, who are christian. He was an abusive alcoholic and one time my grandmother locked him out of the house after he beat her, the cops knocked on the door and told her that she couldnt do that and she had to let him back in the house.

As far as wanting to help the situation in Afghanistan, that is why I posted the link to RAWA, that way, instead of just sitting on here speaking ill of what they do  not know or understand, they can start to educate themselves on the situation over there.


futureshock
by Ruby Member on Mar. 6, 2012 at 9:35 PM

LOL!!!  So do women tap the husbands back?

The beating part is not beating, it is the equivalent of taking a straw and tapping another person on the shoulder and saying, enough is enough.

Quoting muslimahpj:

There arent any. The verse in the Qur'an that people like to say is allowing men to beat their wives, is actually giving men a step by step guide to take instead of just divorcing. The beating part is not beating, it is the equivalent of taking a straw and tapping another person on the shoulder and saying, enough is enough.

There is no beating of wives. The Prophet, pbuh, never beat his wives and is the example that all muslims should try to live by.

He always told the followers to treat the women well, with kindness and fairness.

Quoting SuperChicken:

What are the Sharia-compliant reasons to beat your wife?

I notice that in countries where religion is used in running the country, women are usually on the losing end.   Their rights, freedoms, education, health and safety are eradicated.    You can even see this in countries that are secular, when religious groups try to enforce their beliefs through law.  Such as the anti-choice push by Christian politicians.



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