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Who do you trust more, the government or capitalism?

Posted by on Apr. 14, 2012 at 9:06 AM
  • 40 Replies

What three letters can provide you with quality medical care for about half the price of a typical Doctors appointment and provide you with a 90 day supply of most prescriptions meds for less than a movie and popcorn?

The answer is WAL Walmart, Walgreens.  Walgreens is leading the way in the development of retail health clinics, right in the pharmacy and you can do your shopping while you wait.  Walmart is also in the development stage of such programs.  These clinics are growing and providing healthcare at  up 1/6th of the cost of doctors and hospitals collecting pay from insurance.  The quality of care give by masters degreed nurse practitioners is so good that two thirds of visits are paid for by insurance.

In 2006 Walmart decided to lower their prescrition drug costs on most generics to $4 for a thirty day supply.  That launched, what was desrcibed by Bloomberg "as a fierce price war that has saved Americans literally billions of dollars."  As of 2008 Walmart alone save Americans over 1 billion, that does not include all the pharmacies that have followed suit.

Now we have ehealthinsurance.com, that is saving people approaching billions in the cost of insurance.

We have healthcarebluebook.com that is now arming people with the ability to negotiate with Doctors and they are more than happy too, just to avoid the hassle of dealing with insurance companies.

We have Teladoc and American well that is now saving trips to the ER and Drs offices for much less money.  We have virtual clinics making a rise where (thanks to innovation from the porn industry with the development of webcams) Drs can look in your ears nose and throat with webcams saving Americans billions.

And then we have the No Insurance club gaining momentum.  $500 a year can get you 12 Drs appointments very low cost blood work, prescriptions and other tests.

These are just some of the innovative ideas that capitalism is dreaming up, while the government is trying to kill it.

Amount the government said medicare would cost in 1990 was $12 billion.

The real cost was $107 billion.

Who do you trust?

by on Apr. 14, 2012 at 9:06 AM
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Replies (1-10):
stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Apr. 14, 2012 at 9:21 AM

That's all well and good, Carpy, except when the big bills start rolling in.  Tell me, does Walmart have my dad's chemo treatment for $4?  His treatments are 1500 each AFTER insurance.

I am not against these retail clinics, they do keep costs down and I have gone to the Target clinic for strep and other small items.  I don't have insurance and I have gotten perscriptions filled for $4 at Target.

I don't think the problem is finding a way to make general care less expensive.  I agree that the walk in clinics are the bomb.  I went in for a really bad sinus infection, and saw a Physician's Assistant who diagnosed the infection, lectured me on smoking, and even informed me of the options available if I would consider not using antibiotics to treat the infection, just like I would have gotten from a regular GP.  (He recommended a "neti pot".)  It was good care and the bill was $65.  

The problem is how to pay for the huge problems that people actually buy insurance for.  I disagree with the set up of "gov vs capitalism."  If capitalism was so great why do so many people struggle to pay for medical needs?  And don't forget, "The Government" isn't some faceless monolith.  The government is YOU.  Instead of setting ourselves up in an adversarial way, why not remember who they answer to?  Demand what you want.  The government has to answer to you.

Carpy
by Ruby Member on Apr. 14, 2012 at 9:36 AM
2 moms liked this


Quoting stacymomof2:

That's all well and good, Carpy, except when the big bills start rolling in.  Tell me, does Walmart have my dad's chemo treatment for $4?  His treatments are 1500 each AFTER insurance.

I am not against these retail clinics, they do keep costs down and I have gone to the Target clinic for strep and other small items.  I don't have insurance and I have gotten perscriptions filled for $4 at Target.

I don't think the problem is finding a way to make general care less expensive.  I agree that the walk in clinics are the bomb.  I went in for a really bad sinus infection, and saw a Physician's Assistant who diagnosed the infection, lectured me on smoking, and even informed me of the options available if I would consider not using antibiotics to treat the infection, just like I would have gotten from a regular GP.  (He recommended a "neti pot".)  It was good care and the bill was $65.  

The problem is how to pay for the huge problems that people actually buy insurance for.  I disagree with the set up of "gov vs capitalism."  If capitalism was so great why do so many people struggle to pay for medical needs?  And don't forget, "The Government" isn't some faceless monolith.  The government is YOU.  Instead of setting ourselves up in an adversarial way, why not remember who they answer to?  Demand what you want.  The government has to answer to you.

People struggle to pay medical needs because of the government not because of capitalism.  Healthcare has not been a free market for decades.

Some of these companies are dreaming up ways to improve our system while others will fail miserably.  But they are the innovators.  Our government is not.  Of course your fathers situation is not the norm of what we are seeing with these companies, but they are making an impact  and will do far more to address issues such as your fathers and my nephews (who is battling cancer and in IU medical center right now) as we see, Obamacare is not doing anything to impact costs and will not do anything to impact them in the future

America leads the way in HC all over the world, despite what twisted, fabricated statistics tell us.

stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Apr. 14, 2012 at 9:46 AM
4 moms liked this

Actually, the US does NOT lead the way in health care.  Since it's getting more and more inacessible.  I can at least agree that the health care act did NOT address the problem of overall cost, since all it basically is doing is forcing people to pay insurance companies who will then be the boss of us and our health care.  At least there are *some* regulations which address the most egregious violations of what should be standards (such as retroactively kicking people off of insurance for no reason, etc.)

We should skip the insurance companies.  The gov should pay drs directly.  Yep, single payer system. That's how it should be. 

Quoting Carpy:


Quoting stacymomof2:

That's all well and good, Carpy, except when the big bills start rolling in.  Tell me, does Walmart have my dad's chemo treatment for $4?  His treatments are 1500 each AFTER insurance.

I am not against these retail clinics, they do keep costs down and I have gone to the Target clinic for strep and other small items.  I don't have insurance and I have gotten perscriptions filled for $4 at Target.

I don't think the problem is finding a way to make general care less expensive.  I agree that the walk in clinics are the bomb.  I went in for a really bad sinus infection, and saw a Physician's Assistant who diagnosed the infection, lectured me on smoking, and even informed me of the options available if I would consider not using antibiotics to treat the infection, just like I would have gotten from a regular GP.  (He recommended a "neti pot".)  It was good care and the bill was $65.  

The problem is how to pay for the huge problems that people actually buy insurance for.  I disagree with the set up of "gov vs capitalism."  If capitalism was so great why do so many people struggle to pay for medical needs?  And don't forget, "The Government" isn't some faceless monolith.  The government is YOU.  Instead of setting ourselves up in an adversarial way, why not remember who they answer to?  Demand what you want.  The government has to answer to you.

People struggle to pay medical needs because of the government not because of capitalism.  Healthcare has not been a free market for decades.

Some of these companies are dreaming up ways to improve our system while others will fail miserably.  But they are the innovators.  Our government is not.  Of course your fathers situation is not the norm of what we are seeing with these companies, but they are making an impact  and will do far more to address issues such as your fathers and my nephews (who is battling cancer and in IU medical center right now) as we see, Obamacare is not doing anything to impact costs and will not do anything to impact them in the future

America leads the way in HC all over the world, despite what twisted, fabricated statistics tell us.


Carpy
by Ruby Member on Apr. 14, 2012 at 10:03 AM
2 moms liked this

Actually, I would beg to differ with you on that.  The US does lead the world.  I agree with you on the principle that HC needs to be accessable for all, but it is hard to have an honest debate on the issue when so many people are buying flawed stats.  Many people like to put the UK's system up as the best in the world,  they don't look at the truth behind the stats, they don't look at the prevelence of "patient stacking"  Where people taken to the ER by ambulance are left in the EMS until they can be admitted to meet the 4 hr max wait time to be seen, since the government mandated clock does not start until they pass through the doors.  About 20% of treatable colon cancer patients who are identified as treatable at the time of discovery are considered incurable at the time treatment is available. In the US  that stat is non existant because the care is available immediately when the cancer is discovered whether insured or not. 

The life expectancy is lower in the US but when you control for homicide and accidents, studies show the US to have the highest life expectancy.

Infant mortality rates are the lowest (edited since I accidently said highest because my mind was thinking survival rates)in the world as well, when you contol for the fact that we are the only country that counts same day birth/death among live birth totals, and we use any signs of life whatsoever as a live birth count, where other countries do not.  Many go by weight and height , and in the premie catagory we have a much higher survival rate than any other country in the world.

You can also look at stats from the OECD to determine what I am saying is true.  They are the prime org for keeping track of infant mortality rates around the world.

Quoting stacymomof2:

Actually, the US does NOT lead the way in health care.  Since it's getting more and more inacessible.  I can at least agree that the health care act did NOT address the problem of overall cost, since all it basically is doing is forcing people to pay insurance companies who will then be the boss of us and our health care.  At least there are *some* regulations which address the most egregious violations of what should be standards (such as retroactively kicking people off of insurance for no reason, etc.)

We should skip the insurance companies.  The gov should pay drs directly.  Yep, single payer system. That's how it should be. 

Quoting Carpy:


Quoting stacymomof2:

That's all well and good, Carpy, except when the big bills start rolling in.  Tell me, does Walmart have my dad's chemo treatment for $4?  His treatments are 1500 each AFTER insurance.

I am not against these retail clinics, they do keep costs down and I have gone to the Target clinic for strep and other small items.  I don't have insurance and I have gotten perscriptions filled for $4 at Target.

I don't think the problem is finding a way to make general care less expensive.  I agree that the walk in clinics are the bomb.  I went in for a really bad sinus infection, and saw a Physician's Assistant who diagnosed the infection, lectured me on smoking, and even informed me of the options available if I would consider not using antibiotics to treat the infection, just like I would have gotten from a regular GP.  (He recommended a "neti pot".)  It was good care and the bill was $65.  

The problem is how to pay for the huge problems that people actually buy insurance for.  I disagree with the set up of "gov vs capitalism."  If capitalism was so great why do so many people struggle to pay for medical needs?  And don't forget, "The Government" isn't some faceless monolith.  The government is YOU.  Instead of setting ourselves up in an adversarial way, why not remember who they answer to?  Demand what you want.  The government has to answer to you.

People struggle to pay medical needs because of the government not because of capitalism.  Healthcare has not been a free market for decades.

Some of these companies are dreaming up ways to improve our system while others will fail miserably.  But they are the innovators.  Our government is not.  Of course your fathers situation is not the norm of what we are seeing with these companies, but they are making an impact  and will do far more to address issues such as your fathers and my nephews (who is battling cancer and in IU medical center right now) as we see, Obamacare is not doing anything to impact costs and will not do anything to impact them in the future

America leads the way in HC all over the world, despite what twisted, fabricated statistics tell us.



Carpy
by Ruby Member on Apr. 14, 2012 at 10:18 AM

Not bailing on this post but I have to go work, be back later.

nb34
by Silver Member on Apr. 14, 2012 at 11:56 AM
3 moms liked this

Let's not forget how these "WALs" keep the costs down? These WALs are part of the problem and not the solution. Capitalism has already failed us, why trust it?

krysstizzle
by on Apr. 14, 2012 at 11:58 AM
2 moms liked this
I just don't think healthcare should be a commodity.
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Sisteract
by Whoopie on Apr. 14, 2012 at 12:00 PM
1 mom liked this

Get the profit and suits out of HC and watch the prices fall- and access increase.

Every other industrialized nation has figured it and produces BETTER overall results- people need to wake up-

stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Apr. 14, 2012 at 12:01 PM
2 moms liked this

Agree!  Why should we pay someone else to make money off of our health care?  It seems ridiculous to me, especially with hospitals and Drs struggling.  The only ones coming out ahead are insurance companies.

Quoting krysstizzle:

I just don't think healthcare should be a commodity.


Aislinn
by Silver Member on Apr. 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting nb34:

Let's not forget how these "WALs" keep the costs down? These WALs are part of the problem and not the solution. Capitalism has already failed us, why trust it?

 And that is PRECISELY what your government wants you to believe.... Too bad. They want you to start believing that THEY can take care of you better than YOU can. Sorry. I will never buy into that theory.

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