Christians, what do you really expect from atheists?
To those of you who are not content with people being atheists, who feel we are lost, and need to be saved, what do you expect us to do? How does one choose to believe in something? Could you choose to believe in anything, that you didn't now believe in? Wouldn't something have to happen, something be presented to you, wouldn't some new evidence have to come to light to change you mind?
Edited to add: I thought I was very clear on who this question was directed toward and the relevance of expectations. I'm not asking what Christians expect of atheists in general, as in "how do we all get along". I'm asking what Christians expect of atheists when it comes to attempts at conversion.
Quoting PurpleCrayonz:
Quoting jehosoba84:
I would only ask they they keep an open mind. Things could be revelaed to them at any point in their lives.
Most atheists acknowledge that there could be a God, but that they just don't have sufficient reason enough to believe it.
What do you mean by that? That they "don't have sufficient reason enough to believe it"? Most atheists I know have considered the question carefully. Many have "tried" to believe and to receive God into their hearts without success, so have then decided that they didn't believe there was a god. To be effectively told that they "didn't do it right" is a bit insulting, don't you think?
Most of the others simply look at the Bible and/or other religious texts and the world around us and have decided that if the God/gods that are depicted there are really as vengeful and selfish as they appear and are supposed to be loving but aren't doing anything about all the suffering of innocents around the world, it is most rational to conclude that they can't exist.
There are plenty of other arguments that also feed through to the rational conclusion that there is no God but those are some of the main ones. It isn't, in most cases, that they are closed minded (in fact, I would say that on the whole, atheists are very open minded), it is simply that there is no evidence available that would lead them to the conclusion that there is a god.
So, what sort of "sufficient reason" would you suggest would make a difference?
I'm simply curious here. I hope you don't take it as "bashing".
Wow, you really took that the wrong way. Maybe I just worded it wrong. I did not mean to imply that they " "didn't do it right" . And you just repeated what I said. "No evidence available to lead them to the conclusion..."
I'm too tired to come up with sufficient reasons. Perhaps they will witness a miracle that their science-goverened 'prove-it-to-me minds cannot explain away. I did not mean that to sound condecending, btw.
It all boils down to the FACT that God cannot be proven and even if it could, it could negate FAITH. Which is what he requires of us.
Quoting jehosoba84:It all boils down to the FACT that God cannot be proven and even if it could, it could negate FAITH. Which is what he requires of us.
What about 'disproven' ?
Suppose Christoper Hitchens was correct in the following video where he claims that Jewish Archeologists have disproven a literal interpretation of exodus:
Would you take that as proof the Bible is incorrect about some fairly major points?
If not, what would it take to disprove the God hypothesis?
Quoting Clairwil:
Quoting jehosoba84:
It all boils down to the FACT that God cannot be proven and even if it could, it could negate FAITH. Which is what he requires of us.
What about 'disproven' ?
Suppose Christoper Hitchens was correct in the following video where he claims that Jewish Archeologists have disproven a literal interpretation of exodus:
Would you take that as proof the Bible is incorrect about some fairly major points?
If not, what would it take to disprove the God hypothesis?
Call be stubborn or willfully ignorant, but I wont watch that video. Noone can disprove to me what I feel in my heart. And as far as the bible goes, it was written by man. Therefore, It is subject to human errors. So what?
I wish no ill will on atheists and I certainly do not believe that they are all going to hell. On the contrary, many of them are very good people. Their inability to believe in God will be taken into account when they are judged and it will not be as harsh.
Quoting jehosoba84:Quoting Clairwil:Suppose Christoper Hitchens was correct in the following video where he claims that Jewish Archaeologists have disproven a literal interpretation of exodus:
And as far as the bible goes, it was written by man. Therefore, It is subject to human errors. So what?
Exodus is a pretty major part to be an error, because Moses is the guy who claimed the 10 commandments handed to him came from God. If it was made up, you are pretty much discarding the whole core of the Old Testament.
Quoting jehosoba84:Noone can disprove to me what I feel in my heart.
Feelings are always valid. If you are feeling angry, nobody can tell you "No, you're not angry".
But the thoughts we associate with the feelings are not always correct. You might tell yourself that you're angry because your DH didn't wear the tie you wanted him to wear, but on thinking about it later, realise the actual cause of your anger was something else entirely.
Quoting iluv2meow:
Quoting Clairwil:
I think we can tackle the OP's original question:
Quote:An answer is that what some Christians expect (in the "require" sense of that word) from atheists is that the atheists keep quiet and don't let anyone know that Atheism exists.
Christians_what_do_you_really_expect_from_atheistsI am going to be honest... At first I really had no real answer or reply to that question directly....
But now I do! I expect atheist to be atheists LOL
Sorry but that is the answer that popped in my head as I thought about it DIRECTLY.
Part of the problem, though, is that you and others have already stated some preconceived notions about atheists - they're angry, they mock religion, they haven't "been through" the right problems, etc.
As a result of preconceived notions of atheists, there is prejudice against them. In a survey about voting for a president in the US, a vast majority of people said that they would never vote for an atheist! That is nuts!
So, how are atheists supposed to change this mindset if they are supposed to stay quiet and not try to find out what it is that is actually expected of them. People are asked all the time what church they go to and so on, so atheists can either lie or be branded with some of the preconceived notions as to what sort of people they are.
I think that in so many Christian and Muslim dominated countries, those who can't believe feel so oppressed by those who insist on pushing for their religious morality and views to be imposed on everyone. If they don't speak out against all of this, what is it that you are suggesting should be done for "atheists to be atheists"?
This is why the whole "war on Christianity" is so absurd. You have a minority who are trying to stand up and say "we don't want to be repressed anymore" and it is branded a war??!!!
In terms of the billboards that Clair posted, neither of them had any of that "smallprint" that you were referring to before. I can't see why you would regard them as tacky. You appeared to completely dismiss her interpretation below where she was also stating some of the prejudice that is out there. Again, I ask you how do you think those who are stereotyped for not believing should go about changing those preconceptions?
Quoting PurpleCrayonz:
Quoting iluv2meow:
Quoting Clairwil:
I think we can tackle the OP's original question:
Quote:An answer is that what some Christians expect (in the "require" sense of that word) from atheists is that the atheists keep quiet and don't let anyone know that Atheism exists.
Christians_what_do_you_really_expect_from_atheistsI am going to be honest... At first I really had no real answer or reply to that question directly....
But now I do! I expect atheist to be atheists LOL
Sorry but that is the answer that popped in my head as I thought about it DIRECTLY.
Part of the problem, though, is that you and others have already stated some preconceived notions about atheists - they're angry, they mock religion, they haven't "been through" the right problems, etc.
As a result of preconceived notions of atheists, there is prejudice against them. In a survey about voting for a president in the US, a vast majority of people said that they would never vote for an atheist! That is nuts!
So, how are atheists supposed to change this mindset if they are supposed to stay quiet and not try to find out what it is that is actually expected of them. People are asked all the time what church they go to and so on, so atheists can either lie or be branded with some of the preconceived notions as to what sort of people they are.
I think that in so many Christian and Muslim dominated countries, those who can't believe feel so oppressed by those who insist on pushing for their religious morality and views to be imposed on everyone. If they don't speak out against all of this, what is it that you are suggesting should be done for "atheists to be atheists"?
This is why the whole "war on Christianity" is so absurd. You have a minority who are trying to stand up and say "we don't want to be repressed anymore" and it is branded a war??!!!
In terms of the billboards that Clair posted, neither of them had any of that "smallprint" that you were referring to before. I can't see why you would regard them as tacky. You appeared to completely dismiss her interpretation below where she was also stating some of the prejudice that is out there. Again, I ask you how do you think those who are stereotyped for not believing should go about
If they display themselves in a negative tone then it is simple.... You will get negative REACTIONS.
If act out against others... You will get negative REACTIONS.
If you make mocking and rude billboards, you will get negative REACTIONS.
Atheist are no exceptions in the world. If you make a negative remark about anything, you get negative reaction. Really it is like math...
------- Now let's take a look at the Gay right protesting --------
You got negativity which is displaying negative display of the gay community. But surely they will not WIN THEIR CASE if they focus only on making negative signs such as...
- Straight people are ugly! Gay people are Prettier!
*** Seriously, that sounds like they are just trying to start a WAR rather than win votes.... Anyone that is smart will find a positive, productive, constructive way to send a message. ****
I'm tired of being told that now I have to basically hide my religious preference because I may offend someone by speaking about it in public. I am not offend by others when they speak or show their preference yet it seems Christians are bashed continuously for a show or speech of faith in a public setting.I would like to see it be an equality for all .
Quoting Sekirei:They want us to stay quiet and allow them to run all over us (they being general terms and certainly not all)
I expect nothing. Athiests have their beliefs and I have mine. I don't expect them to be cruel just because they don't believe in God, and I don't treat them any different than anyone else. I don't preach to them, and I sure hope to never run into one that will preach to me. Preach meaning tell me I am wrong for believing what I do. I grew up in a very diverse family. One of my brothers is Athiest. My mom's side is mormon, my dad's side is catholic, my other brother is undecided on the matter and I am protestant. The only expectation I have out of an Athiest is the same that I have out of anyone I converse with. Respect for one another.
Quoting cowgirlsr2:I'm tired of being told that now I have to basically hide my religious preference because I may offend someone by speaking about it in public. I am not offend by others when they speak or show their preference yet it seems Christians are bashed continuously for a show or speech of faith in a public setting.I would like to see it be an equality for all .
Quoting Sekirei:They want us to stay quiet and allow them to run all over us (they being general terms and certainly not all)
and what "generation" are you?
- LilyofPhilly
on Apr. 22, 2012 at 6:46 PM