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How do you feel about those that are wealthy? Model, Actor, CEO, Government official, Tycoon, Royalty, and Athlete.

Do you think they deserve their wealth?

by on Apr. 25, 2012 at 12:41 AM
Replies (181-190):
Redwall
by Silver Member on Apr. 26, 2012 at 7:09 PM
1 mom liked this

Do I think they deserve it?  Of course!  If the going rate for a super model is a zillion dollars and hour and someone pays it, why should I care?  If someone works hard, makes millions, I'm happy for them...if someone else lays on their butt and watches tv and is on welfare, I'm not sorry for them a bit.  I truly admire rich people.  I'd LOVE to be rich!

One_Of_A_Kind
by on Apr. 26, 2012 at 7:11 PM
1 mom liked this

 I think they deserve every penny of it if they worked hard for it. I also think people should worry about there own financial situation and not others. Who really cares what everyone makes. Bashing each other over if you are rich or poor only causes high blood pressure and doesn't solve anything.

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Apr. 26, 2012 at 8:47 PM
2 moms liked this
Quoting One_Of_A_Kind:

Who really cares what everyone makes?

Economics is not a zero sum game.  Because the pie can grow.

But that doesn't mean what someone else gets has no effect upon what you get.

Incomes have gone up, even in real terms (ie after you take inflation into account):


It is a bit hard to see by how much the bottom three lines have increased, so here they are as a percentage, for easier comparison:


So, in the long term, real income for the bottom 60% of households has gone up by about 10% over the last 30 years.  However, if you look at just the most recent 10 years, you actually see a drop in income.

And since, for the median household, the household wealth has stays a more or less constant multiplier of household income, that means that household wealth has also dropped over the last 10 years:



Put simply, if you're in the bottom 60% of the population, the chances are that you are poorer now than you were 10 years ago.

And that isn't because the pie has shrunk.  No, not at all.  The pie has grown over the last 10 years.  It is just that the people at the top have been taking all the growth (and more):


If the top quintile were gaining that growth in their wealth by growing the pie, in fair open competition in the market, I don't think many people would be complaining.  They'd want to learn how to do it, and join them.

But the figures show that's not what is going on.  Somewhere there's a siphon effect.  They are growing the size of their pie (and the pie as a whole), but at the price of shrinking the not just the fraction of the pie the lowest 60% get, but the actual size of pie the lowest 60% get.

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Apr. 26, 2012 at 9:40 PM


Quoting Clairwil:

Quoting One_Of_A_Kind:

Who really cares what everyone makes?

Economics is not a zero sum game.  Because the pie can grow.

But that doesn't mean what someone else gets has no effect upon what you get.

Incomes have gone up, even in real terms (ie after you take inflation into account):


It is a bit hard to see by how much the bottom three lines have increased, so here they are as a percentage, for easier comparison:


So, in the long term, real income for the bottom 60% of households has gone up by about 10% over the last 30 years.  However, if you look at just the most recent 10 years, you actually see a drop in income.

And since, for the median household, the household wealth has stays a more or less constant multiplier of household income, that means that household wealth has also dropped over the last 10 years:



Put simply, if you're in the bottom 60% of the population, the chances are that you are poorer now than you were 10 years ago.

And that isn't because the pie has shrunk.  No, not at all.  The pie has grown over the last 10 years.  It is just that the people at the top have been taking all the growth (and more):


If the top quintile were gaining that growth in their wealth by growing the pie, in fair open competition in the market, I don't think many people would be complaining.  They'd want to learn how to do it, and join them.

But the figures show that's not what is going on.  Somewhere there's a siphon effect.  They are growing the size of their pie (and the pie as a whole), but at the price of shrinking the not just the fraction of the pie the lowest 60% get, but the actual size of pie the lowest 60% get.

Some will never comprehend, let alone acknowledge this information.

It indicates  exactly WHY so many people who work hard for a living are barely treading water. 30 years of flat gains for most workers and sharp increases for others. 


Tara922c
by on Apr. 26, 2012 at 10:44 PM
2 moms liked this

I don't think anyone deserves to be rich, but if that person is rich, and he acquired his money legally, well then I say he deserves to keep it! Some people are rich, and I am okay with that. Some people work hard for pennies, some do nothing for billions. I do not care if a model makes 35K for showing up to work. She earned the 35K because that is what the job pays, and as long as people spend their money on what the model is selling, she will continue to make that salary. Do I think athletes make an obscene of money, yes, and I do think they deserve it because they make the owners, stadium, and they cities money. People spend money to watch the athletes play. Don't like it, don't watch sports, don't buy anything athletes endorse, and do not buy tickets. Paris Hilton does a bunch of nothing for her wealth, and again, I say she deserves it because her family wanted her to have it.

My main point is, no one deserves to be rich just because. Plenty of people work hard, but working hard has nothing to do with it. People who make money for a company are the ones who get paid the most, and that is why the top dogs get a gigantic paycheck. I don't care if a person earned it, won it, or inherited it, if it is his/her money, he/she deserves to keep it. (of course I don't feel that way if the person earned the money illegally)

MsDenuninani
by Silver Member on Apr. 27, 2012 at 8:48 AM


Quoting Clairwil:

 

Quoting MsDenuninani:

I believe everyone is entitled to the money they obtain legally.  (Which would include both money earned, royalties, or inheritances).

"Deserve" is a value judgment.  People don't get what they deserve. They get what the market allows them to receive.

If people got what they deserved, (good) teachers would make more than everybody.

People are not entitled to the money they obtain legally.   A certain fraction of it is removed in taxes.   Which they consent to, by accpeting the advantages of being a citizen of the country they pay taxes to.

Saying they are entitled to what they obtain legally just changes the question to what society wants to make legal - what fraction it wishes to allow people to keep of the money they obtain by various different means.

 

"deserve" is indeed a value judgement, and whether someone "deserves" their wealth should only be one factor in society deciding whether to leave that person in control of it.

Perhaps I should have been clearer -- I did not mean they are entitled to the money they "earn".  By obtain, I mean "take possession of."  I don't include taxes in that category, and in any event, money they obtain legally would not include money that is owed to the government, anyway.

But I see what you are getting at.  I don't obsess about taxes much honestly.  I don't think about what is fair to the individual or what they deserve.  I tend to think about what services I think it is most efficient for the government to provide, and then believe we should tax accordingly. 

PSchneider
by Member on Apr. 27, 2012 at 11:26 AM

Very well said Tara.

The ultimate question being asked here is, do we have the right to look at someone's level of wealth, fortune, estate, etc..., and determine whether or not they should keep their money.  The OP question ultimately boils down to one basic thing, do we have the right to stick our collective noses in someone else's business and start making judgements and decisions?

Obviously, money gained illegally is a completely different issue.

Quoting Tara922c:

I don't think anyone deserves to be rich, but if that person is rich, and he acquired his money legally, well then I say he deserves to keep it! Some people are rich, and I am okay with that. Some people work hard for pennies, some do nothing for billions. I do not care if a model makes 35K for showing up to work. She earned the 35K because that is what the job pays, and as long as people spend their money on what the model is selling, she will continue to make that salary. Do I think athletes make an obscene of money, yes, and I do think they deserve it because they make the owners, stadium, and they cities money. People spend money to watch the athletes play. Don't like it, don't watch sports, don't buy anything athletes endorse, and do not buy tickets. Paris Hilton does a bunch of nothing for her wealth, and again, I say she deserves it because her family wanted her to have it.

My main point is, no one deserves to be rich just because. Plenty of people work hard, but working hard has nothing to do with it. People who make money for a company are the ones who get paid the most, and that is why the top dogs get a gigantic paycheck. I don't care if a person earned it, won it, or inherited it, if it is his/her money, he/she deserves to keep it. (of course I don't feel that way if the person earned the money illegally)


RighteousLove
by Member on Apr. 27, 2012 at 11:32 AM

yeah i know. i think it could easily work out. and perhaps the absense of money will bring about an absense of stupidity and greed. hopefully. 

Quoting MissElissa21:

I am with you there! I would love to live in a community where this was feasible!

Quoting RighteousLove:

i agree that only few deserve the wealth. but it's controversial really. anyone who has sanity and a good heart perhaps. personally i think we were better off with the barter system. when goods were exhanged with goods. but that's me. 



MissElissa21
by Bronze Member on Apr. 27, 2012 at 12:30 PM
1 mom liked this
Exactly what I was etting at with the post :)

Quoting PSchneider:

Very well said Tara.

The ultimate question being asked here is, do we have the right to look at someone's level of wealth, fortune, estate, etc..., and determine whether or not they should keep their money.  The OP question ultimately boils down to one basic thing, do we have the right to stick our collective noses in someone else's business and start making judgements and decisions?

Obviously, money gained illegally is a completely different issue.


Quoting Tara922c:

I don't think anyone deserves to be rich, but if that person is rich, and he acquired his money legally, well then I say he deserves to keep it! Some people are rich, and I am okay with that. Some people work hard for pennies, some do nothing for billions. I do not care if a model makes 35K for showing up to work. She earned the 35K because that is what the job pays, and as long as people spend their money on what the model is selling, she will continue to make that salary. Do I think athletes make an obscene of money, yes, and I do think they deserve it because they make the owners, stadium, and they cities money. People spend money to watch the athletes play. Don't like it, don't watch sports, don't buy anything athletes endorse, and do not buy tickets. Paris Hilton does a bunch of nothing for her wealth, and again, I say she deserves it because her family wanted her to have it.


My main point is, no one deserves to be rich just because. Plenty of people work hard, but working hard has nothing to do with it. People who make money for a company are the ones who get paid the most, and that is why the top dogs get a gigantic paycheck. I don't care if a person earned it, won it, or inherited it, if it is his/her money, he/she deserves to keep it. (of course I don't feel that way if the person earned the money illegally)


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
MissElissa21
by Bronze Member on Apr. 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM

I don't think there could be an absolute absence of money, but at least the people in the community would be using it for the good of the community. I think in a way the Federal Government tries this "to the best of their ability," but being so big, it can't help everyone and account for everyone like a smaller government could. 

Quoting RighteousLove:

yeah i know. i think it could easily work out. and perhaps the absense of money will bring about an absense of stupidity and greed. hopefully. 

Quoting MissElissa21:

I am with you there! I would love to live in a community where this was feasible!

Quoting RighteousLove:

i agree that only few deserve the wealth. but it's controversial really. anyone who has sanity and a good heart perhaps. personally i think we were better off with the barter system. when goods were exhanged with goods. but that's me. 




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