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ODD~Oppositional Defiance Disorder **Update with Sources/Help**

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The debate, discussion.....

What do YOU think of this disorder?


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/oppositional-defiant-disorder/DS00630

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder

"Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a diagnosis described by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) as an ongoing pattern of anger guided disobedience, hostilely defiant behavior toward authority figures which goes beyond the bounds of normal childhood behavior. People may appear very stubborn and often angry. A diagnosis of ODD cannot be given if the child presents with conduct disorder (CD)[1]

 

Contents

[hide]

[edit] Behavioral features

Common features of Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) include excessive, often persistent anger, frequent temper tantrums or angry outbursts, as well as disregard for authority. Children and adolescents with ODD often purposely annoy others, blame others for their own mistakes, and are easily disturbed. Parents often observe more rigid and irritable behaviors than in siblings.[2] In addition, these young people may appear resentful of others and when someone does something they don't like they prefer taking revenge more than sensitive solutions.[3]

For a child or adolescent to qualify for a diagnosis of ODD these behaviors must cause considerable distress for the family and/or interfere significantly with academic or social functioning. Interference might take the form of preventing the child or adolescent from learning at school or making friends, or placing him or her in harmful situations. These behaviors must also persist for at least six months. Effects of ODD can be greatly amplified by other disorders in comorbidity such as ADHD.[4]

[edit] Signs and Symptoms

Some signs and symptoms that must be perpetuated for longer than 6 months and must be considered beyond normal child behavior to fit the diagnosis are:[5][6]


The child must exhibit 4 out of the 8 signs and symptoms listed below in order to meet the DSM-IV-TR diagnostic threshold for ODD[7]

  • Actively refuses to comply with majority's requests or consensus supported rules[8]
  • Performs deliberate actions to annoy others[8]
  • Angry and resentful of others[6]
  • Argues often[6]
  • Blames others for his or her own mistakes
  • Has few or no friends or has lost friends
  • Is causing constant trouble at school
  • Touchy or easily annoyed

Generally, these patterns of behavior will lead to problems at school and other social venues.[6]

[edit] Causes

Children of alcoholic parents, or whose fathers have "been in trouble with the law" run a 18% chance of developing ODD, beginning very early in age.[4] This could suggest that the development of ODD concerning symptoms of dis-cooperativeness may be influenced by the behavior of the parents.

 Update:

I would like to add some helpful resources, books, for those who are navigating this terrain.

Your Defiant Child,  Barkley

The Defiant  Child, Dr. Riley

Taking Charge of Adhd, Barkley
The Explosive Child, Greene

Parenting Children w/ Adhd, MonastraSuper Parenting for ADD: The Survival Guide to Kids with ADD or ADHD, John Taylor PhD

 

by on May. 8, 2012 at 7:18 PM
Replies (611-620):
beachbeauty
by on May. 10, 2012 at 8:44 AM

There is no medication for ODD.

Quoting ProudSailor76:

It seems like just another way for the doctors to continue to medicate America. C'mon people wake up and stop giving your kids pills! Stop overmedicationg!!!!!


beachbeauty
by on May. 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM
3 moms liked this

First of all, as it's been mentioned many times in this thread, THERE ARE NO DRUGS FOR ODD.  Second, I am a SAHM and discipline my child myself, he still has it.  If you can discipline your son and have not needed felt out of control of needed medical/psychological intervention he doesn't have it.  Believe me, if your child has this you would be searching high and low for answers and help parenting him.  This is a big difference between strong willed and ODD. 

Quoting mommaof697:

I think it is a reason to give them drugs so the parents don't have to do so much discipline?  I am pretty sure my husband and son would be diagnosed with this. Thankfully I homeschool so I can discipline my child myself.


cupomeow
by Member on May. 10, 2012 at 8:50 AM

I have no doubt that there are children and families who suffer from this condition. Unfortunatley, many parents who simply have brat kids due to poor parenting skills or flat out bad parenting will use this condition as an excuse. "Oh, Johnny can't help it, he has ODD" This same parent never having an actual diagnosis of said fact. Much like a person with a filthy disgusting house who says "Oh, I'm a hoarder." who has no hoarding syptoms besides the house itself.

PinkLight
by on May. 10, 2012 at 8:51 AM

My 14 yr has exhibited many of these symptoms over the years and there have been times, especially when he was 8 and 9, that it was very difficult to deal with him. I read stories all the time of children who are much worse then he was and my heart goes out to those parents who live with a child with these issues. In my opinion, the people who judge are the same people who are clueless. They have typical children and instead of thanking God daily for being so blessed, they will take the credit for their good fortune and cast blame on parents with troubled kids.

We have been very fortunate because our older son is doing much better. Maturity has helped a lot and we know that he's got a heart of gold.  Some of his behavoriors are still getting in the way with peer to peer relationships, however. We're hopeful that he'll have more success in high school next year.

beachbeauty
by on May. 10, 2012 at 8:54 AM

I agree with stormcris and I can't stress enough checking out a psychologist first.  I went to see one for a neuro-psych eval and it was awful.  They spent an entire 6 hour appt. testing him for ADHD which we already knew he didn't have then said "okay, let's talk about medication." and when I looked confused said "well, that's what you came here for, isn't it?"  I said "No, I came here for help and direction on how to parent him."  They referred me to another psych. that doesn't take my insurance.  Another psychologist saw him about once a month for 6 months and each time I asked for advice said "I always recommend the book 1-2-3 Magic."  I told him great, I used that for my other 4 children, it doesn't work with him it went in one ear and out the other, he just kept repeating that at every appt. so we're again shopping for a psychologist.

Quoting stormcris:

Pediatricians are not always capable of determining if there is anything going on or if you simply need discipline. If you are in tears it is bad enough to consult a psychologist. They are the best ones to determine what is going on. If you decide to consult one check them out before deciding to use one. Sometimes you can find information about how good they are through reviews online, and sometimes you have to ask around. 

Quoting 3690inspire:

Quoting stormcris:

I just wanted to add while there are several thinking about these children being brats....

Imagine a very angry and nervous child who has no acceptance of being denied. A child that will not accept discipline, rules or regulative instruction. When I say they will not accept discipline I mean it has absolutely no affect but more anger and destruction. A child who cannot understand pain in others when they are on one of these tangents. A child who cannot engage in structured activities. A child who becomes over the top hysterical and will attack others. A child who will never forget or forgive any wrong they feel has come to them. A child that will not stop trying to irritate others. A child that is point blank aggressive.




Ummm, wow! This describes my 4 year old to a T. I mean Everything you've described here. I've talked to his pediatrician in tears about it, but the only help she offered to me was literature on disciplining children. He does get discipline, but he reacts just as you described.



ltucutie
by Member on May. 10, 2012 at 8:59 AM

 I think you hit the nail on the head when you stated that a child was diagnosed by a teacher.  There in lies the problem.  Teachers CAN'T diagnose children with anything.  They are not licensed to do so.  If a parent is listening to the teacher and running with it then that is their stupidity.  There are many children that truly have disorders and are diagnosed by licensed professionals.  My son was seen bya  team of professionals and was put through rigorous tests and evaluations before getting diagnosed as autistic.  They were very careful to make sure that he really was.  They all told me that it was necessary to put him through all of that because they didn't want to be to quick to throw that diagnosis on him.  I think I would just be happy if the general public would stop grouping all children in the same group.  Children are all individuals and they will not all fit the same mold.  That means that some children truly are autistic, OCD, ODD, ADD, ADHD, or any other diagnosis.  Other children really are just brats.  They are all different.

Quoting mummy1990:

Sometimes it is though. I have a cousin whose son is autistic, and she tries her best to raise her son right as well. I know its hard. But I know people that just say, oh, he got diagnosed with ADHD by his teacher, thats why hes like that. When really he just needs to be told not to do something, and followed through with some type of time out. Theres a lot of parents out there that really would rather put a disorder on their kid than to have to deal with the actual problem. I don't doubt that there are kids out there who have these disorders, I know they're out there, but I know something like this, will be misdiagnosed a lot.

Quoting ltucutie:

 You make it sound as if a diagnosis is a "Get out of Jail Free Card" for the parents.  As if the parents no longer have to discipline their child because he/she has a diagnosis.

I don't agree at all.  My son is Autistic and I don't allow him to get away with things because of it.  I take him to therapy and make sure that he has all of the resources that he needs in school.  In our home, he has rules and chores and consequences just like any other child.

I will say that I don't believe that every diagnosis is spot on either.  I know there are some children that are misdiagnosed, but we should not be saying that all of them are.

Quoting mummy1990:

I think diagnosing kids with all these disorders is doing more harm than good, because you know, the children that are just being brats, and are now going to be given the excuse, oh, he just has ODD, when really, they're just being brats. Like ADHD...that gets diagnosed so much, and really, most kids are just hyper active...like they should be. I had a friend who was told that she was ADHD, but what was really going on was, she would finish her classwork, and screw around because she was bored. Things like this will be misdiagnosed.

 

 

stormcris
by Christy on May. 10, 2012 at 9:22 AM

The really bad thing about this disorder is it can isolate families. Friends and family members can just abandon those who have a child with this. It can be impossible to find help such as sitters which is recommended that the parent have time away to help with stress levels which can lead to divorce and depression. The child can become an outcast and be tossed around in the school system. If the problems get so out of hand with a big combination of issues you can end up schooling the child yourself because of the no one wants to deal with it issue. For some, the travel time to doctors and getting the right help becomes a quest in itself. When you deal with a high level of co-morbid or separate issues it becomes a guessing game as to what is causing one thing or another. Much like other long term illnesses it can go into a rest period where you think it is getting better and then for whatever reason it comes back and blindsides you. 

mummy1990
by on May. 10, 2012 at 9:35 AM

Exactly. Teachers shouldn't even be saying things like that. But I even use to know this guy in high school, a teacher said he had ADHD, so his mom took him to the doctor, and the doctor just put him on medication. He was just a squirly teenager, all of them are at 14 years old. I defintely don't think something like ADHD should be diagnosed to to a child thats like, 6 years old, at least just not so carelessly. I'm sure some kids have it at the age, but I kind of think that kids that have behavioral issues should be carefully looked at, and probably not heavily medicated, like I see doctors doing now a days. You can't just shove a pill down someones throat and hope it works. Theres probably deeper issues with the child than just medicating them. Medicating children so young is a huge issues because the medications they get put on are for adults, they have very negative side effects.


I was put on a behavioral medication once, but it was for chronic headaches. I was 15 and had headaches constantly for about 2 years, and they put me on this behavioral med used for people with bi-polar disorder, and depression. I took it for almost 6 month and it was terrible. I had stomach cramps, I felt like a zombie, I was cranky, sleepy, and I stopped taking it when I started to black out. I remember being at the computer and then suddenly I was in the shower and I didn't know how I got there. The headaches were gone though. But what was more disturbing was the after effects. After I stopped taking them, I would get sleep paralysis. I would wake up suddenly and not be able to move or speak for probably 5 minutes, but it felt like forever. It kind feels like you're being possesed by demons, or abducted by aliens. Its very scary. I didn't have that until after those meds. They give that kind of stuff, to children. 


I think that doctors and profesionals should really, really, really make sure a child needs something before they give them anything.

Quoting ltucutie:

 I think you hit the nail on the head when you stated that a child was diagnosed by a teacher.  There in lies the problem.  Teachers CAN'T diagnose children with anything.  They are not licensed to do so.  If a parent is listening to the teacher and running with it then that is their stupidity.  There are many children that truly have disorders and are diagnosed by licensed professionals.  My son was seen bya  team of professionals and was put through rigorous tests and evaluations before getting diagnosed as autistic.  They were very careful to make sure that he really was.  They all told me that it was necessary to put him through all of that because they didn't want to be to quick to throw that diagnosis on him.  I think I would just be happy if the general public would stop grouping all children in the same group.  Children are all individuals and they will not all fit the same mold.  That means that some children truly are autistic, OCD, ODD, ADD, ADHD, or any other diagnosis.  Other children really are just brats.  They are all different.

Quoting mummy1990:

Sometimes it is though. I have a cousin whose son is autistic, and she tries her best to raise her son right as well. I know its hard. But I know people that just say, oh, he got diagnosed with ADHD by his teacher, thats why hes like that. When really he just needs to be told not to do something, and followed through with some type of time out. Theres a lot of parents out there that really would rather put a disorder on their kid than to have to deal with the actual problem. I don't doubt that there are kids out there who have these disorders, I know they're out there, but I know something like this, will be misdiagnosed a lot.

Quoting ltucutie:

 You make it sound as if a diagnosis is a "Get out of Jail Free Card" for the parents.  As if the parents no longer have to discipline their child because he/she has a diagnosis.

I don't agree at all.  My son is Autistic and I don't allow him to get away with things because of it.  I take him to therapy and make sure that he has all of the resources that he needs in school.  In our home, he has rules and chores and consequences just like any other child.

I will say that I don't believe that every diagnosis is spot on either.  I know there are some children that are misdiagnosed, but we should not be saying that all of them are.

Quoting mummy1990:

I think diagnosing kids with all these disorders is doing more harm than good, because you know, the children that are just being brats, and are now going to be given the excuse, oh, he just has ODD, when really, they're just being brats. Like ADHD...that gets diagnosed so much, and really, most kids are just hyper active...like they should be. I had a friend who was told that she was ADHD, but what was really going on was, she would finish her classwork, and screw around because she was bored. Things like this will be misdiagnosed.

 

 


beaularson91
by on May. 10, 2012 at 9:36 AM
Quoting tweety101149:




I didn't read any of the replies on this post before I posted and I realized later how ignorant I sounded and I didn't know how to erase it

But you shouldn't judge me based on this one post my sister is mentally handicapped and had to see a child physiologist and I've seen first hand how people will try to have their children labeled instead of admitting that their child just needs help but not like they were hoping I apologize got jumping to conclusions and opening my mouth about something I don't know about
futureshock
by Ruby Member on May. 10, 2012 at 10:04 AM


Quoting onetoknow4:

 Hi... As a parent of four children, (two girls, two boys)-- I wish they were just brats. (Girls came first)   There is a BIG difference between ODD and brattyness.  I have a 10y daughter who was diagnosed with ODD and ADHD around age 8.  She is dyslexic.  Its a rollercoaster.  She seemed to be angry for no reason or reasons I didn't know of.   Counseling helped.  She is 85% better, it will take more time.  Enrolling her in sports, and reward systems help with keeping the environment structured for her.  My 12y daughter-- WOW!!... She is so defiant, and disrespectful (hateful, hurtful speech, along with gestures), she destroys property, and exibits anger consistently.  It seems as if there is always a battle.  Her grades are poor ( a big change from A's and B's),  she interrupts class, has been in fights, and ISS (in school suspension) many times.  She is not a troubled child.  (i know you've heard it before) She detests authority.  I grew tired of the battle, and decided to take her to MHMR for an eval.  They talked to her, and she was just as disrespectful and defiant to them.  No reprieve for them. We will be seeing a psychiatrist soon--(it can't be soon enough).  I have always been hesitant to speak on medicines for children, but I welcome anything therapeutic which will help.  The behavioral situation escalated very fast in little time.  Any parenting tools, encouragement, tips, suggestions, strategies, etc will be appreciated.   My sons by the way are okay. Thanks for listening.

So if she wasn't this way in the past what caused it, do you think?

It seems as if there is always a battle.  Her grades are poor ( a big change from A's and B's), 

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