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Will White Voters Punish Obama for His Support of Gay Rights?

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We all know, don't we, that without white voters the President would not have been elected, right?  Those voters elected the Prez because they wanted change, right?  This post is going to be featured just as was the one asking if Black voters will punish the President, right?

I just wanted to say there's a difference between what the President believes and what Constitutional Scholar Barack Obama believes.  As President, Mr. Obama intends to do as he believes most of his constituents would have him do which is why he seems to be contradicting himself by his Presidential acts.  Thank goodness he knows how to separate his personal beliefs from his Presidential duties.

Here's an article talking about how change comes quicker for each group that works for it:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/us/same-sex-marriage-support-shows-pace-of-social-change-accelerating.html



May 11, 2012

Same-Sex Marriage Support Shows Pace of Social Change Accelerating

WASHINGTON — When Bill Clinton was president, he waited until almost 1 in the morning in 1996 to sign a bill defining marriage as the union of a man and a woman. He did not like it, but was unwilling to veto it 45 days before an election.

Sixteen years later, President Obama endorsed same-sex marriage, a journey reflecting not just his own personal “evolution,” but also the dizzying pace of social change in an age of technology.

From the political arena to the courts, the emergence of same-sex marriage as a mainstream issue in less than a generation has upended convention, scrambled long-held assumptions and defied history. The kind of change that took other social movements decades or longer to achieve has accelerated in an era of instant communication and universal information.

What was unthinkable in the 1990s is increasingly commonplace as gay men and lesbians serve openly in the military and marry and adopt children, while the youngest generation wonders what all the fuss was about.

“We’ve had these successive movements of social change, from African-Americans, then feminism and now gay rights, and each one seems to happen faster than the last and you wonder what’s going on there,” said Jonathan Rauch, an author-scholar and an early proponent of same-sex marriage. “I do wonder if in a more connected society, people are more comfortable with change.”

Today, about 47 percent of Americans support same-sex marriage, compared with 43 percent who oppose it, according to the Pew Research Center. The 26-point swing in just a decade is a far more rapid change in public attitudes than on past social issues like interracial marriage. And more so perhaps than with race or gender, attitudes on gay rights seem likely to continue changing, given the broad acceptance found in polls among younger Americans, who will make up an increasing segment of the populace.

Yet even if support for gay rights has grown, it does not mean that the country has come to accept same-sex marriage, as indicated Tuesday by North Carolina’s passage of another state constitutional amendment banning it, the 31st such measure.

Indeed, nearly every time same-sex marriage has been put on a ballot, voters have rejected it, and several more states are likely to vote on constitutional bans later this year, including Maryland and Minnesota. Including statutory bans passed by legislatures, more than 40 states prohibit same-sex marriage, and their laws may be hard to unwind even if voter sentiments swing as polls suggest they are.

“Proponents of same-sex marriage have created a myth of inevitability, and folks in the polling world have used language that has often helped them,” said Brian S. Brown, president of the National Organization for Marriage, which opposes same-sex marriage. “The only poll that counts is the voters, and if you look at that, we’ve won every single one. If you look at trend lines, the trend lines are in our direction.”

Mr. Rauch agreed with opponents that the polls may overstate support for same-sex marriage at this point. But unlike with other social movements, he said, gay rights advocates have been able to change attitudes by fusing a liberal goal with a conservative value. By asking for the same right to form families, he said, gay men and lesbians were rejecting a more libertine image that turned off many other Americans.

“We’re seeing a shift in public morality,” he said.

As the issue plays out in the political arena, it is also heading to a climactic moment at the Supreme Court, which may soon be asked to weigh in just as it has in the past on rights for blacks and women. Separate cases are heading toward the court challenging a voter-approved ban in California and the federal law Mr. Clinton signed, called the Defense of Marriage Act. Even before his statement this week, Mr. Obama had ordered the Justice Department not to defend the law.

The Supreme Court is a wild card in the same-sex marriage debate. Lawyers widely believe there would be four justices on each side, leaving Justice Anthony M. Kennedy as the deciding vote. Like other parts of society, the court has changed its thinking over the years, particularly as justices have come to know gay men and lesbians personally. The late Justice Lewis F. Powell Jr., who when writing a ruling upholding a sodomy ban told a secretly gay clerk that he had never “met a homosexual,” later said his decision was a mistake.

Yet Justice Kennedy may be reluctant to insert the court into the middle of such a highly charged social issue without a national consensus, according to legal analysts. And some advocates of gay rights worry that even if the court did rule in their favor, it would risk setting off a backlash.

Eric J. Segall, a law professor at Georgia State University, said that by enshrining abortion rights in Roe v. Wade, before the country was ready, the court energized a conservative movement that elevated Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich.

“When the court gets involved in trying to make progressive change, it fails miserably,” he said.

Others believe that the pace of change fueled by technology has changed that equation, and that younger Americans are not likely to change their views as they age. The issue does not fall clearly along ideological lines. Long before Mr. Obama, former Vice President Dick Cheney and the former Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman endorsed same-sex marriage, while many black members of the clergy who normally form the bedrock of the Democratic coalition have lobbied against it.

One of the lead lawyers fighting California’s ban is Theodore B. Olson, who argued the Florida vote recount case that cleared the way for George W. Bush to become president.

For that matter, the opponents of the Defense of Marriage Act now include former Representative Bob Barr, who as a Republican from Georgia first sponsored it in 1996. Mr. Barr, who left the party to become a libertarian, concluded in 2009 that the law improperly tied the hands of states that wanted to legalize same-sex marriage, and he has called for its repeal.

He is not the only author of that law to express regret. Among the politicians who recorded telephone calls to North Carolina voters urging them to reject the ban this week was Mr. Clinton.


by on May. 11, 2012 at 10:32 AM
Replies (21-30):
JonJon
by Ruby Member on May. 11, 2012 at 11:32 AM

Few people admit or embrace it as you have.

Quoting -Eilish-:

Hooray for illiteracy!!

Quoting JonJon:


Quoting -Eilish-:






12hellokitty
by Ruby Member on May. 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM

Wasn't it white voters and donors who punished Obama into supporting SSM? 

mommy2b39465
by Bronze Member on May. 11, 2012 at 11:35 AM
1 mom liked this

lol that's exactly what I'm doing in reverse. I'm not voting for the other guy, although that is the result, really I'm just voting against Obama. I despise the other guy less than him.

Quoting DivingDiva:

Although I am glad he feels this way, his opinion on the subject will not influence my vote.  FTR - I voted for him because I despised him less than I despised John McCain, not because I believed he was going to bring about any real change in politics as usual. 


JonJon
by Ruby Member on May. 11, 2012 at 11:38 AM

You hate him even though he acknowledges his personal belief that gays should have equal rights?  Or do you despise him more?

Quoting mommy2b39465:

lol that's exactly what I'm doing in reverse. I'm not voting for the other guy, although that is the result, really I'm just voting against Obama. I despise the other guy less than him.

Quoting DivingDiva:

Although I am glad he feels this way, his opinion on the subject will not influence my vote.  FTR - I voted for him because I despised him less than I despised John McCain, not because I believed he was going to bring about any real change in politics as usual. 




JonJon
by Ruby Member on May. 11, 2012 at 11:40 AM
1 mom liked this

Diehard whites?  Aren't you die-hard?  And white?  Hooray!  The long-awaited miracle!

Seriously; what do you mean by die-hard whites?

Quoting candlegal:

The diehard whites will vote for him, I don't expect that to change.  I also don't expect he will win in November.  Really has nothing to do with this issue but many issues.

Quoting JonJon:

31 but that doesn't mean the majority feel that way; it just means the majority of the people who voted on that particular issue feel that way.  There could be a great run on the polls this election to support gay marriage as there was a run on the polls the last general election for change.  I expect that to be the case.

Does this reply mean you believe the Prez has lost the white vote?

Quoting candlegal:

I would guess the number wouldbe higher than 47% since every state this has been voted on, they voted NO to homosexuals getting married.  Where are we at 30 or 31 states?

Quoting JonJon:


Quoting jonellg:

he won my vote because of his support of gays so IDK. Why would white people be upset by it?

47% of whites are supposed to disapprove of gay marriage; you know as many reasons why this may be so as I.

I want to know why anyone who believes blacks voted for Obama believes blacks would not vote for him just because he came out as personally in favor of gay marriage even though he is just as black as he was BEFORE he came out in favor of gay right to marry.






mommy2b39465
by Bronze Member on May. 11, 2012 at 11:58 AM
2 moms liked this

That issue really doesn't concern me that much in the elections, although I am against gay marriage. I'd support civil unions. Same thing, called by a different name but I personally think the word marriage should be reserved for the traditional man/woman. 

I was against him from the beginning, even though I told everyone he would win the presidency if he ran. I didn't like his 'change' campaign, because in debates he always called for change but no one was able to nail down HOW he would change things. I was very upset with how he manhandled the healthcare bill. I thought that even for a president, he was out of line. It also seems almost that he enjoys 'playing chicken' with the republicans. If the government is about to shut down if something doesn't get passed, he'll sit back, knowing that the other side won't allow the shutdown. He knows that, if he waits it out, he'll win. It's very scary that he'd play, toy, with so many of our lives like that. Skipping to more present things, I also think he was way out of line in how he has talked to and about the justices. He obviously thinks himself above them in rank, which is extremely dangerous thinking for the way our country is set up. The three branches are supposed to have equal power, with no branch able to rule the others. It is set up so that the executive branch cannot become a tyrant. Obama isn't a tyrant, but his line of thinking and his attitude is very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion. 

Quoting JonJon:

You hate him even though he acknowledges his personal belief that gays should have equal rights?  Or do you despise him more?

Quoting mommy2b39465:

lol that's exactly what I'm doing in reverse. I'm not voting for the other guy, although that is the result, really I'm just voting against Obama. I despise the other guy less than him.

Quoting DivingDiva:

Although I am glad he feels this way, his opinion on the subject will not influence my vote.  FTR - I voted for him because I despised him less than I despised John McCain, not because I believed he was going to bring about any real change in politics as usual. 




JonJon
by Ruby Member on May. 11, 2012 at 12:14 PM

You could have kept it simple and stopped after the first paragraph because that was in keeping with the topic, except, wait...you didn't really say whether you believe the President will lose the white people who voted for him last general election.  As you didn't vote for him last time and have no intention of voting for him this time, you just opportunistically used my post to vent.  Judy's post is the place for that; she loves it when people down-talk the Prez.

Quoting mommy2b39465:

That issue really doesn't concern me that much in the elections, although I am against gay marriage. I'd support civil unions. Same thing, called by a different name but I personally think the word marriage should be reserved for the traditional man/woman. 

I was against him from the beginning, even though I told everyone he would win the presidency if he ran. I didn't like his 'change' campaign, because in debates he always called for change but no one was able to nail down HOW he would change things. I was very upset with how he manhandled the healthcare bill. I thought that even for a president, he was out of line. It also seems almost that he enjoys 'playing chicken' with the republicans. If the government is about to shut down if something doesn't get passed, he'll sit back, knowing that the other side won't allow the shutdown. He knows that, if he waits it out, he'll win. It's very scary that he'd play, toy, with so many of our lives like that. Skipping to more present things, I also think he was way out of line in how he has talked to and about the justices. He obviously thinks himself above them in rank, which is extremely dangerous thinking for the way our country is set up. The three branches are supposed to have equal power, with no branch able to rule the others. It is set up so that the executive branch cannot become a tyrant. Obama isn't a tyrant, but his line of thinking and his attitude is very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion. 

Quoting JonJon:

You hate him even though he acknowledges his personal belief that gays should have equal rights?  Or do you despise him more?

Quoting mommy2b39465:

lol that's exactly what I'm doing in reverse. I'm not voting for the other guy, although that is the result, really I'm just voting against Obama. I despise the other guy less than him.

Quoting DivingDiva:

Although I am glad he feels this way, his opinion on the subject will not influence my vote.  FTR - I voted for him because I despised him less than I despised John McCain, not because I believed he was going to bring about any real change in politics as usual. 






candlegal
by Judy on May. 11, 2012 at 12:42 PM

sorry, was at the library.  The diehard whites are the ones that will vote for him no matter what he has or hasn't done.

Quoting JonJon:

Diehard whites?  Aren't you die-hard?  And white?  Hooray!  The long-awaited miracle!

Seriously; what do you mean by die-hard whites?

Quoting candlegal:

The diehard whites will vote for him, I don't expect that to change.  I also don't expect he will win in November.  Really has nothing to do with this issue but many issues.

Quoting JonJon:

31 but that doesn't mean the majority feel that way; it just means the majority of the people who voted on that particular issue feel that way.  There could be a great run on the polls this election to support gay marriage as there was a run on the polls the last general election for change.  I expect that to be the case.

Does this reply mean you believe the Prez has lost the white vote?

Quoting candlegal:

I would guess the number wouldbe higher than 47% since every state this has been voted on, they voted NO to homosexuals getting married.  Where are we at 30 or 31 states?

Quoting JonJon:


Quoting jonellg:

he won my vote because of his support of gays so IDK. Why would white people be upset by it?

47% of whites are supposed to disapprove of gay marriage; you know as many reasons why this may be so as I.

I want to know why anyone who believes blacks voted for Obama believes blacks would not vote for him just because he came out as personally in favor of gay marriage even though he is just as black as he was BEFORE he came out in favor of gay right to marry.






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12hellokitty
by Ruby Member on May. 11, 2012 at 12:48 PM
2 moms liked this


Quoting candlegal:

sorry, was at the library.  The diehard whites are the ones that will vote for him no matter what he has or hasn't done.


And it will be the diehard whites who will cause Obama to loss votes along with the SSM supporting media, in the way they attack, slander, demonize anyone who doesn't 100% support Obama. 

 

candlegal
by Judy on May. 11, 2012 at 12:51 PM

tsk tsk, not the Prez, what he stands for and his policies

Quoting JonJon:

You could have kept it simple and stopped after the first paragraph because that was in keeping with the topic, except, wait...you didn't really say whether you believe the President will lose the white people who voted for him last general election.  As you didn't vote for him last time and have no intention of voting for him this time, you just opportunistically used my post to vent.  Judy's post is the place for that; she loves it when people down-talks the Prez.

Quoting mommy2b39465:

That issue really doesn't concern me that much in the elections, although I am against gay marriage. I'd support civil unions. Same thing, called by a different name but I personally think the word marriage should be reserved for the traditional man/woman. 

I was against him from the beginning, even though I told everyone he would win the presidency if he ran. I didn't like his 'change' campaign, because in debates he always called for change but no one was able to nail down HOW he would change things. I was very upset with how he manhandled the healthcare bill. I thought that even for a president, he was out of line. It also seems almost that he enjoys 'playing chicken' with the republicans. If the government is about to shut down if something doesn't get passed, he'll sit back, knowing that the other side won't allow the shutdown. He knows that, if he waits it out, he'll win. It's very scary that he'd play, toy, with so many of our lives like that. Skipping to more present things, I also think he was way out of line in how he has talked to and about the justices. He obviously thinks himself above them in rank, which is extremely dangerous thinking for the way our country is set up. The three branches are supposed to have equal power, with no branch able to rule the others. It is set up so that the executive branch cannot become a tyrant. Obama isn't a tyrant, but his line of thinking and his attitude is very dangerous road to go down, in my opinion. 

Quoting JonJon:

You hate him even though he acknowledges his personal belief that gays should have equal rights?  Or do you despise him more?

Quoting mommy2b39465:

lol that's exactly what I'm doing in reverse. I'm not voting for the other guy, although that is the result, really I'm just voting against Obama. I despise the other guy less than him.

Quoting DivingDiva:

Although I am glad he feels this way, his opinion on the subject will not influence my vote.  FTR - I voted for him because I despised him less than I despised John McCain, not because I believed he was going to bring about any real change in politics as usual. 






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