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S/O about WIC and breastfeeding

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I was reading the post about mothers who are capable of breastfeeding not being entitled to formula. So it got me thinking about mothers who may be physically capable of breastfeeding but eat an unhealthy diet of processed foods or drink or smoke, etc. With so many people overweight, eating processed foods, doing recreational drugs as well as social drinking,  I would imagine that not every breastfeeding mother is completely pristine in her eating/drinking habits.  Heck, the only way to know what is really in your food is to grow it yourself and how many mothers actually do that? Wouldn't that make formula better for the baby in some cases? How do you prove that the breastmilk given to baby is of the highest quality? What are your thoughts on this?

by on May. 12, 2012 at 8:50 PM
Replies (41-50):
p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl
by on May. 13, 2012 at 12:34 PM

They could easily do it without you knowing. You usually have to pee in a cup when you go in, it wont be anything to test it. Like they have to anyways for other things. 

A mother can do drugs and alcohol during her pregnancy and not have it show up after labor. My cousin is living proof of that. To submit the people who have shown any signs or mothers who were on anything before pregnancy, or during (even prescription) would not be a bad idea. 

If a mother is insulted by it, oh well. It is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to WIC. Every woman should have the right to choose, but the doctors have the right to know the truth. Which most mothers will not give at all. 

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

That's an issue for CPS to handle, not something that should be mandatory for all new moms.    If they suspect drug use at the hospital and baby is born with drugs in their system, CPS is involved right away.   Same goes with a doctor suspecting something, I'm sure... 

Quoting p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl:

If the mom is known for it during her pregnancy, then yes, fucking test her. Esp if she is wanting WIC. Anything related to the government  help, should require drug testing period. 

Testing her urine at the 6 week check up and for a month after that, would not cause anything different. Most doctors visits you are required to pee in a cup anyways.

If they are positive, for things like drugs, it would be best to give them the alternative. For the childs sake, and then get CPS involved. I am not saying take away the right for a woman to choose if she just wants to formula feed, I am just saying it would not harm anyone else, and it would help single out those who are bad mothers.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:


Quoting p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl:

I think they need to do tests on moms shortly after they have the baby to make sure, I mean, you are able to test for drugs while they are pregnant, and etc. So why not for say...3-6 months after. And if they are clean, then sure let them breastfeed, but if they are not, then provide them with the alternative. 

Huh-wha?!?   I seriously hope you're joking.




SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on May. 13, 2012 at 12:35 PM
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Quoting sneffy014:


Quoting SewingMamaLele:


Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting SewingMamaLele:


Quoting FromAtoZ:

I missed something. lol  

What the hell is that bit about mothers being denied formula if they are capable of breastfeeding?  Who determines this?  Which thread is that ridiculous idea posted in?

As for your post, OP (sorry about the mini rant), formula is indeed better for many babies who otherwise would not receive the proper nutrients from their mother.  


Under what circumstance? 

Reading the thread after my reply, you named some reasons.

Other than those, there are those who have medical conditions that have an impact on the ability to breastfeed.  For these reasons, it is indeed better for a child to be fed with formula.

Not every woman is 'capable', physically, of breastfeeding.  

But that's not about providing nutritionally adequate milk, it's about either a harmful substance being present in the milk, or a lack of enough milk.   

I wouldn't argue that formula is indeed better than starving, or being exposed to harmful drugs... but the OP seems to be talking about mom having a poor diet (rather, mom not having a "perfect" diet), or drinking socially.

Yes, I am talking about mom having a poor diet. I know eating poorly can have negative effects on one's health whether it''s obesity, high blood pressure, cancer, etc. Wouldn't it then be logical to assume that women who eat poorly will pass on bad nutrition to their children who are breastfeeding?

By the way, I am all for breastfeeding. It's just when I was reading the other post about WIC and women who are capable of breastfeeding not getting formula, it occured to me that breast feeding may or may not be nutritious, it depends on the mothers diet. Many women eat processed foods and/or foods with pesitcides and I find it difficult to believe these things are not passed on in the mother's milk.

Women will pass on poor nutrition to their children no matter how they feed them as babies... and that's honestly way more important of an issue and way better reason to eat healthy.   BUT, again... milk production doesn't grind up a hamburger and pass it on to baby... it breaks it down to the most basic of nutrients and then takes those nutrients to make milk.   And mom's body also has a fantastic filtration system built in for milk production.   Does that mean that some bad substances never get through?   No, it doesn't... but as it stands today, even with all the contaniments we have in our environment, human milk is better for a human baby than formula. 

It will be a VERY sad day for the human race if that ever ceases to be true. 

Part of the reason is that all the same things that may contaminate our milk ALSO contaminate formula.   Cows live in the same environment as us... they breathe the same air, eat the same pesticide laden food.  Soy beans used for formula grow in the same ground as our food, corn... etc... 

Then, if you actually read the ingredient label on formula, the ingredients are often very similar to what you find on processed and fast foods (because it IS a processed food).   Milk proteins, corn syrup, soybeal oil, and then a host of synthetic vitamins and minerals which are essentially the same as what they use to  "enrich" or "fortify" many processed foods. 

So, what is better... mom eating processed foods and then her body breaking down the nutrients to put together a natural food for her infant, or baby eating a processed food product ?   

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justinnaimee
by Bronze Member on May. 13, 2012 at 12:36 PM
2 moms liked this
You could eat nothing more than hamburgers, fries and pepsi and your breastmilk would still be better than formula.
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SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on May. 13, 2012 at 12:42 PM

Again, I wasn't there, I don't know the details.  BUT, in all my years of LLL and bumming around breastfeeding forums I've come across ONE mom whose doctor tested her milk, and that mom had a baby in the hospital that they couldn't figure out what was wrong with.   They found her milk to be of much higher calories than formula.  

It's not something most doctors would just do... they will just tell mom to switch to formula first and if that works, great.  

And you're right... chips and sweet don't provide the nutrients needed to function, which is why if a person (especially a post pardom person) ate a diet of JUST that, they wouldn't be able to function

Quoting p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl:

Nah, this doctor was pretty well. My sister couldnt gain weight. There was proof my mother was making enough milk, but when they took samples in of it, it had no nutritional value. Chips and sweets do not provide the nutrients a human needs to function properly, they lead to many other illnesses and some of the things in the food do get passed along to the child. If drugs do, and alcohol do, then why not the rest of the bad stuff?

My mother breastfed for all of us, she just pumped, so what she did have of any little nurtrition, was mixed with formula. 

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

It sounds like your mother had a very misinformed doctor.  I couldn't begin to guess what was actually wrong, but mothers are told all sorts of wacky things about breastfeeding and very often told their milk isn't adequate when it's something else that is (or often, isn't) wrong.

If a woman is snacking on nothing but chips and sweets, she'll get scurvy.   Even with a crappy diet, Americans get the nutrients they need.

Quoting p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl:

My mother had 9 kids, My sister Rebecca was the 6th child. My mother did not produce milk with nutrients needed for her to grow,the doctor encouraged her to supplement. 

I think it wouldnt be a bad thing, esp if the mother does not have access to healthier types of food. Some processed foods are alright, but if they are snacking on nothing but chips and sweets, its not providing anything right for the infant. That is where formula would be good for the infant. 

Granted, the mother could change her diet, but not all moms are willing or will do that or can do that.

Quoting SewingMamaLele:


Quoting FromAtoZ:


Q

But that's not about providing nutritionally adequate milk, it's about either a harmful substance being present in the milk, or a lack of enough milk.   

I wouldn't argue that formula is indeed better than starving, or being exposed to harmful drugs... but the OP seems to be talking about mom having a poor diet (rather, mom not having a "perfect" diet), or drinking socially.





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paganbaby
by Teflon Don on May. 13, 2012 at 1:23 PM

I'm so glad this made it to the first page :-)

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

The standard american diet (which is piss poor!) is MORE than adequate for mom to produce high quality milk.    The body doesn't take food, grind it up and shoot it out the mammary glands, it actually breaks down the food into the specific nutrients and then puts those nutrients together in the right balance to create milk that is species specific.  

Casual/recreational drinking is not contra indicated... and if mom is smoking less than a pack a day, it's still better for her to breastfeed her child.  

So, in the great majority of cases... even in most cases where mom is on a medication, her milk is better for baby than formula.   

Contra-indications to nursing would be a alcoholic mother, a drug addicted mother, a mother in cancer treatments and then a select few other medications... but the first two are contra-indications to having custody of a child in general, so... shrugging


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Momniscient
by Ruby Member on May. 13, 2012 at 1:26 PM
Lol.
Eh. I just heard a researcher on NPR say she had her breast milk analyzed at a lab and they found high levels of chemicals in her milk. Just from the living in a modern world.
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Momniscient
by Ruby Member on May. 13, 2012 at 1:29 PM
Lol. Bullshit.
Give good rational advice if you are going to be taken seriously.
To imply not breast feeding is in the same sentence as behaviors that cause loss in custody is disingenuous and suggests you care more for your notions as a boob warrior than you do actually 'educating' people.


Quoting paganbaby:

I'm so glad this made it to the first page :-)

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

The standard american diet (which is piss poor!) is MORE than adequate for mom to produce high quality milk.    The body doesn't take food, grind it up and shoot it out the mammary glands, it actually breaks down the food into the specific nutrients and then puts those nutrients together in the right balance to create milk that is species specific.  

Casual/recreational drinking is not contra indicated... and if mom is smoking less than a pack a day, it's still better for her to breastfeed her child.  

So, in the great majority of cases... even in most cases where mom is on a medication, her milk is better for baby than formula.   

Contra-indications to nursing would be a alcoholic mother, a drug addicted mother, a mother in cancer treatments and then a select few other medications... but the first two are contra-indications to having custody of a child in general, so... shrugging


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paganbaby
by Teflon Don on May. 13, 2012 at 1:33 PM

Wouldn't cows suffer from the same issues?

Quoting Momniscient:

Lol.
Eh. I just heard a researcher on NPR say she had her breast milk analyzed at a lab and they found high levels of chemicals in her milk. Just from the living in a modern world.


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Momniscient
by Ruby Member on May. 13, 2012 at 1:40 PM
Yes.
Oddly enough breast milk is not liquid purity just as cows milk is not liquid horror in a teat.


Quoting paganbaby:

Wouldn't cows suffer from the same issues?

Quoting Momniscient:

Lol.

Eh. I just heard a researcher on NPR say she had her breast milk analyzed at a lab and they found high levels of chemicals in her milk. Just from the living in a modern world.


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SewingMamaLele
by Leanne on May. 13, 2012 at 2:08 PM

If we're talking drug testing to recieve aid in general... that's a subject that can be debated.   If we're talking drug testing mothers recieving aid just because they are nursing??   Yea, I don't think so.   

Quoting p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl:

They could easily do it without you knowing. You usually have to pee in a cup when you go in, it wont be anything to test it. Like they have to anyways for other things. 

A mother can do drugs and alcohol during her pregnancy and not have it show up after labor. My cousin is living proof of that. To submit the people who have shown any signs or mothers who were on anything before pregnancy, or during (even prescription) would not be a bad idea. 

If a mother is insulted by it, oh well. It is better to be safe than sorry when it comes to WIC. Every woman should have the right to choose, but the doctors have the right to know the truth. Which most mothers will not give at all. 

Quoting SewingMamaLele:

That's an issue for CPS to handle, not something that should be mandatory for all new moms.    If they suspect drug use at the hospital and baby is born with drugs in their system, CPS is involved right away.   Same goes with a doctor suspecting something, I'm sure... 





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