Major Threat to Religion? Clergy People Coming Out as Atheists

[Goodwoman614]

What happens when a clergy person -- a minister, a priest, a rabbi, an imam -- realizes he doesn't believe in God?

And what happens when he says it out loud? What happens when they find each other; when they support each other in coping with their crises, when they help each other with resources and job counseling and other practical assistance? What happens when they encourage each other to come out?

Could this affect more than just these clergy people and their followers? Could it change how society as a whole thinks and feels about religion?

That's what the Clergy Project is finding out. In recent months and years, atheists have been all over the news. But over the last few weeks, a burst of media attention has been focused on atheists of an unexpected stripe: clergy members. And in particular, attention is going to the Clergy Project, an online meeting place and support group that exists specifically for these unexpected additions to the ranks of the godless.

The project was inspired by the 2010 pilot study by Daniel C. Dennett and Linda LaScola, "Preachers Who Are Not Believers" (PDF), which exposed and explored the surprisingly common phenomenon of non-believing clergy. The need to give these people support -- and if possible, an exit strategy -- was immediately recognized in the atheist community, and starter funding for the Clergy Project was quickly provided by the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science. Founded in March of 2011 with 52 members, the Clergy Project currently has over 270 members -- and since recent news stories about it began appearing, in outlets from MSNBC to NPR to the Religious News Service to CNN, applications to join have been going up at an even more dramatic rate.

The cascade of news stories began when Methodist minister Teresa MacBain came to the American Atheists convention following last March's Reason Rally -- and made a dramatic unscheduled appearance at the podium, to announce that she was an atheist. "Being in a group of people with whom I could share openly without fear of persecution gave me the courage to come out," she told me. "The opportunity to stand before the crowd, come out as an atheist and share about the Clergy Project was too good to pass up. I was at the end of my rope and I knew it. It was now or never for me. As I walked up on that stage, I felt fear like no other."

MacBain had been questioning her faith since her early teens, when she came across contradictions in the Bible. "I went to my dad for answers," she said. "He simply shared that God's ways are so much higher than our ways that we can not understand everything in the Bible. Our response should be faith, not doubting. He then told me that doubting was a sin. I left that day and suppressed those questions. This practice followed me for decades."

But eventually, the questions became too much. She let go of her Biblical literalism, which at first helped resolve her doubts about Biblical contradictions -- but this soon made room for other questions to press on her. "Things such as theodicy [the problem of suffering and evil], the question of hell, God's omnipotence yet lack of intervention in heinous events, the historicity of Jesus... all these bubbled to the surface and demanded to be answered," she said. "My work to answer these questions began with the thought that as I discovered the truth, it would create a stronger faith and give me comforting answers to those in my church who were dealing with the same issues. Instead, the truth I found led me away from faith."

This experience is common among members of the Clergy Project. Clergy people, almost by definition, are people who take their faith seriously. They tend to think about religion carefully. They often (although not always) study their religion carefully. Unlike many believers, they actually read the Bible, or Torah, or Koran, or whatever the sacred text of their religion is. They think hard about questions that more casual believers are willing to let slide. After all -- that's their job.


http://www.alternet.org/story/155798/biggest_threat_to_religion_clergy_people_coming_out_as_atheists_?akid=8917.204720.nBHOAo&rd=1&t=5

[Goodwoman614]

BUMP!

[Goodwoman614]

BUMP!

[Goodwoman614]

BUMP!

[LauraKW]

 Interesting, I had never considered the need for such a group.

[Goodwoman614]

Quoting LauraKW:

 Interesting, I had never considered the need for such a group.

Me either, but it does make sense when you think about it. After all, most non-believers start out as believers.

[cammibear]

First of all...Alternet...that says enough right there. lol

Secondly, "preachers who are not believers" are what the Bible calls "wolves in sheep clothing". They are a dime a dozen. I went to school with a slew of them...one admitted more than once he was getting his pastoral ministry degree so he can spend his days fishing with church members. Sound bible teaching was furthest thing from his mind. So...the idea that clergy know the Bible and ask the hard questions...I know for a fact that's rarely the case.

The testimony of the Methodist clergy that decided she was an atheist...I find many things troubling about her statements. Her asking questions and not getting answers...well, sounds like she wasn't looking in the Bible for her answers, which is no surprise. The Bible has the answers to ALL things pertaining to life and godliness.

Many times people approach the Bible with "their" ideas of how things should be, or with what seems right in their own eyes. You will only distort truth, when you try to apply your understanding to scripture instead of just letting scripture tell you what truth is. The result is following after lies. It's been prophesied that in the last days, men will not listen to sound doctrine, but will follow after those that just tell them what they want to hear. There will be a great Apostasy, or falling away from the faith. Hmmmm...

[tweety101149]

Quoting cammibear:

First of all...Alternet...that says enough right there. lol

Secondly, "preachers who are not believers" are what the Bible calls "wolves in sheep clothing". They are a dime a dozen. I went to school with a slew of them...one admitted more than once he was getting his pastoral ministry degree so he can spend his days fishing with church members. Sound bible teaching was furthest thing from his mind. So...the idea that clergy know the Bible and ask the hard questions...I know for a fact that rarely the case.

I hardly think your last statement is accurate. It may be true for some clergy, but not all,  Many clergy encourage their congregations to ask questions of them, and have open discussions. 

I happen know for a fact rabbi's must go through long years of training after college. Know how to read Torah and Talmud in it's original form in order to interpret the holy book.  There are different requirements of course for the different sects or Judaism. But they all must discuss the torah in studies and ask and answer questions in order to receive their rabbinate clertificate, (besides some must go to Israel not sure for how long, or which sect of Judaism, I beleive it is both Orthodox and Hasidic).  I cannot answer for Iman, but I am pretty sure they go through much training as well since they too need to interpret their holy books. I cannot answer for all the Christian demoninations, but if you are referring to Christian clergy then that should have been made clear, and I am pretty sure many Christian clergy are not as unknowledgeable your statement implies..  Please do not lump all clergy together in your statement claiming that clergy don't know the bible and rarely ask the hard question.

 

 

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-does-someone-become-a-rabbi.htm

 

[cammibear]

Actually I was. Thanks for pointing that out. I have utmost respect for Jewish Rabbis.

Christian pastors don't necessarily have to go to school or have a degree (which in many cases doesn't mean much). They can just say they are "called" into ministry and step into a teaching position. They might mean well...but they might not have any understanding of the Bible.
My father in law says "some are called, some are sent, some werent called, they just went". lol Alot of truth there.

Quoting tweety101149:

Quoting cammibear:

First of all...Alternet...that says enough right there. lol

Secondly, "preachers who are not believers" are what the Bible calls "wolves in sheep clothing". They are a dime a dozen. I went to school with a slew of them...one admitted more than once he was getting his pastoral ministry degree so he can spend his days fishing with church members. Sound bible teaching was furthest thing from his mind. So...the idea that clergy know the Bible and ask the hard questions...I know for a fact that rarely the case.

I hardly think your last statement is accurate. It may be true for some clergy, but not all,  Many clergy encourage their congregations to ask questions of them, and have open discussions. 

I happen know for a fact rabbi's must go through long years of training after college. Know how to read Torah and Talmud in it's original form in order to interpret the holy book.  There are different requirements of course for the different sects or Judaism. But they all must discuss the torah in studies and ask and answer questions in order to receive their rabbinate clertificate, (besides some must go to Israel not sure for how long, or which sect of Judaism, I beleive it is both Orthodox and Hasidic).  I cannot answer for Iman, but I am pretty sure they go through much training as well since they too need to interpret their holy books. I cannot answer for all the Christian demoninations, but if you are referring to Christian clergy then that should have been made clear, and I am pretty sure many Christian clergy are not as unknowledgeable your statement implies..  Please do not lump all clergy together in your statement claiming that clergy don't know the bible and rarely ask the hard question.

 

 

http://www.wisegeek.com/how-does-someone-become-a-rabbi.htm

 

[AdrianneHill]

I think you want that to be true so badly that you have decided it is. It is much easier to believe that every clergy member who had lost their faith was simply a poor student, had no faith to start, orare simply some of satan's minions trying to turn good believers away from God.
It also shows how little you understand anyone who doesn't believe like you f when you claim that all questions are answered in the Bible. Which one? Do you mean the KJV or is one just as good as another? The catholic Bible better since it has an extra book or two, or are those books superfluous to God's true word? If so, were catholics doomed to misunderstand the words of God for over a thousand years until some protestant got an epiphany and an editor's pencil? What about the book of Mormon? Does it answer extra questions or just more misleading programs turning people away from God?

Most clergy do take it seriously but not everyone in a seminary goes on to preach. Clergy losing their faith isn't new and it hasn't just popped up in these "end days" that have been happening ever since Christ died. Clergy are people and they probably get exposed to a lot of vile humanity. Saying that the answers are in the book also dismisses the people who see those "answers" and still say "not good enough."
I had a lot of questions as a kid. Enough questions to get kicked out of Sunday school because the answers were crap. They usually boiled down to "So you're saying you don't know either but you sure pray/wish this way is the truth." I found that hard to accept so I never really believed. I believed in Santa longer than God because at least Santa did something concrete once a year. The only way God could be proven was if you were already convinced he was there.
It must be lonely for the people who are trying to believe but can't. I tried to believe for all of my childhood and gave up in my mid teens. I was surrounded by believers who knew I was going to hell and I figured I would just have to accept my future hell because I couldn't fake it anymore. I'm sure the atheist clergy are also sad and isolated because they can't admit how they feel. I also know from experience that every one of those people spent months or years praying for a sign or an epiphany so they could take some comfort in the existence of God even if they couldn't understand. It is tragic and liberating the day one decides that if God was going to give an answer, he would have by now.
I'm glad you have the comfort of knowing what it is you know. Don't accuse those who can't see it of being wicked, obtuse, or blind. We just can't see it and are no longer willing to "fake it til we make it."

Quoting cammibear:

First of all...Alternet...that says enough right there. lol

Secondly, "preachers who are not believers" are what the Bible calls "wolves in sheep clothing". They are a dime a dozen. I went to school with a slew of them...one admitted more than once he was getting his pastoral ministry degree so he can spend his days fishing with church members. Sound bible teaching was furthest thing from his mind. So...the idea that clergy know the Bible and ask the hard questions...I know for a fact that's rarely the case.

The testimony of the Methodist clergy that decided she was an atheist...I find many things troubling about her statements. Her asking questions and not getting answers...well, sounds like she wasn't looking in the Bible for her answers, which is no surprise. The Bible has the answers to ALL things pertaining to life and godliness.

Many times people approach the Bible with "their" ideas of how things should be, or with what seems right in their own eyes. You will only distort truth, when you try to apply your understanding to scripture instead of just letting scripture tell you what truth is. The result is following after lies. It's been prophesied that in the last days, men will not listen to sound doctrine, but will follow after those that just tell them what they want to hear. There will be a great Apostasy, or falling away from the faith. Hmmmm...

[TugBoatMama]

The Clergy Project founder will be joining us in Tulsa along with the Thinking Atheist on the 23rd. I already have heard most of his story on the TTA podcast but it is amazing and surprising how many non believing clergy people feel trapped and guilty about their realization. The pain they describe is palpable.