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Student loans: What's the big deal?

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I feel as though I'm constantly hearing someone whine about student loans and now we have some cities offering repayment of loans for relocation (though, is this really new? Haven't certain areas alwasy offered this?) 

Recently a friend posted a cartoon on facebook:  A boy moving back home with "5 figure student loan debt" on his back.  His parents are giving him grief, stating that they started out with nothing.  His reply "I wish I could have started out with nothing!" 


What are your thoughts on the situation?  Should students come out of any 4 year University without any type of financial obligation?  Is a 4 year degree becoming the high school diploma?  


by on Jun. 13, 2012 at 2:08 PM
Replies (21-30):
kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Jun. 13, 2012 at 2:42 PM

 Taxpayers.

Quoting L1558:


Quoting kailu1835:

 Students know what they're getting into when they sign the contracts for student loans.  They make the conscious decision to get an expensive degree that they cannot pay for.  They have the ability to get grants, scholarships, etc, as well as the ability to pay on their loan while they are still in school so that their loan doesn't keep accruing massive amounts of interest (which makes up a pretty big portion of the loan when they finally do get out of school and start their lives).

I do not believe that any student going to college should be exempt for paying for their financial aid.  Nobody HAS to go get an expensive degree that may or may not do anything for them.

Also, I don't know if you all are aware of this, but you are actually only paying for about a third of your education.  The government pays the other 2/3rds.

Maybe, but who pays the government?

 

babiesbabybaby development

L1558
by Bronze Member on Jun. 13, 2012 at 2:47 PM

Like so many working college alumni who fortunately now have (hopefully somewhat decent) jobs and pay taxes. The government doesn't really give you anything of "theirs".

;o)


Quoting kailu1835:

 Taxpayers.

Quoting L1558:


Quoting kailu1835:

 Students know what they're getting into when they sign the contracts for student loans.  They make the conscious decision to get an expensive degree that they cannot pay for.  They have the ability to get grants, scholarships, etc, as well as the ability to pay on their loan while they are still in school so that their loan doesn't keep accruing massive amounts of interest (which makes up a pretty big portion of the loan when they finally do get out of school and start their lives).

I do not believe that any student going to college should be exempt for paying for their financial aid.  Nobody HAS to go get an expensive degree that may or may not do anything for them.

Also, I don't know if you all are aware of this, but you are actually only paying for about a third of your education.  The government pays the other 2/3rds.

Maybe, but who pays the government?

 


L1558
by Bronze Member on Jun. 13, 2012 at 2:48 PM
1 mom liked this

It shouldn't be the primary goal.

The whole idea of getting a degree is to get a job (just like technical school). I don't know about you, but I'd rather be gainfully employed than underemployed or unemployed with a wealth of useless information I'd paid for through the nose.

Quoting Tanya93:

And I disagree.


College isn't the place to get technical skills to get a job.

It is a place to get a well rounded education.

Quoting L1558:

I think that goal needs tweaking. In this day and age, a well-rounded education is worth less than a more streamlined area of expertise. When I was hired for a professional job based on a business background, my supervisor couldn't have cared less about whether or not I aced Renaissance-era literature.

Well-rounded educations are great in theory but that's what high school is for...when you are paying by the credit and need to focus to be more competitive...then the goal of well-rounded education is not much of a goal, IMO.

Quoting Tanya93:

Yes I do have 2 BA's and took plenty of classes that had nothing specifically to do with my majors.   It's part of getting a well rounded education which is the goal of a college degree.

Quoting L1558:

Sweetheart, I took the other classes (I have already obtained a Bachelor's). I know what a well-rounded education is, but I don't see how taking Italian 101 or Physics 102 is necessary for that type of study. If you just want to study something specific but it is not offered in a technical or trade school, then sometimes you MUST go through the non-essentials and PAY FOR THEM. This is why I mentioned dissatisfaction in my original, first post.

Did you obtain a 4 year degree? If so, did you ever take a class which was not of use to you at all in your professional or even personal future? 

Quoting Tanya93:

Then you have to take the other classes.  College is about a well rounded education.  If you just wanted to study something specific, undergrad wasn't for you.

Quoting L1558:

I wanted to study statistics and global economy. I do not know of a technical school that offers this degree...do you?

Edit: this "certificate"

Quoting Tanya93:

Then get a certificate from a technical school if you don't have to actually have to take classes outside what you want to study.



Quoting L1558:

The price of college is completely over-the-top. The requirements to specialize in a degree involve all sorts of generic classes that you "must" attend in order to graduate with your degree in that specific area. Too few colleges are streamlined, affordable, or suitable for adults who want to further education or go back for a second career / degree.

The apathetic job market, combined with the high and rising cost of tuition, makes for a lose-lose situation.

When I was a high school grad (1997) my English teacher told me that he believed a 4 year degree was what a "high school diploma used to be" in terms of worth in the job market. He's probably right. If I had to go back, I'd probably have gone to community college instead and trade school and made myself get straight As and THEN apply for Master's scholarships.

I did well in school but only got partial scholarships. Even going to a state university and working 36 hrs/ wk WHILE attending full-time only did so much. I'm still paying off school loans and it's ridiculous.

I graduated with my Bachelors and a 3.92 GPA.









Tanya93
by on Jun. 13, 2012 at 2:50 PM
1 mom liked this

But it has always been that goal.   Learning.  Not getting job skills.



Quoting L1558:

It shouldn't be the primary goal.

The whole idea of getting a degree is to get a job (just like technical school). I don't know about you, but I'd rather be gainfully employed than underemployed or unemployed with a wealth of useless information I'd paid for through the nose.

Quoting Tanya93:

And I disagree.


College isn't the place to get technical skills to get a job.

It is a place to get a well rounded education.

Quoting L1558:

I think that goal needs tweaking. In this day and age, a well-rounded education is worth less than a more streamlined area of expertise. When I was hired for a professional job based on a business background, my supervisor couldn't have cared less about whether or not I aced Renaissance-era literature.

Well-rounded educations are great in theory but that's what high school is for...when you are paying by the credit and need to focus to be more competitive...then the goal of well-rounded education is not much of a goal, IMO.

Quoting Tanya93:

Yes I do have 2 BA's and took plenty of classes that had nothing specifically to do with my majors.   It's part of getting a well rounded education which is the goal of a college degree.

Quoting L1558:

Sweetheart, I took the other classes (I have already obtained a Bachelor's). I know what a well-rounded education is, but I don't see how taking Italian 101 or Physics 102 is necessary for that type of study. If you just want to study something specific but it is not offered in a technical or trade school, then sometimes you MUST go through the non-essentials and PAY FOR THEM. This is why I mentioned dissatisfaction in my original, first post.

Did you obtain a 4 year degree? If so, did you ever take a class which was not of use to you at all in your professional or even personal future? 

Quoting Tanya93:

Then you have to take the other classes.  College is about a well rounded education.  If you just wanted to study something specific, undergrad wasn't for you.

Quoting L1558:

I wanted to study statistics and global economy. I do not know of a technical school that offers this degree...do you?

Edit: this "certificate"

Quoting Tanya93:

Then get a certificate from a technical school if you don't have to actually have to take classes outside what you want to study.



Quoting L1558:

The price of college is completely over-the-top. The requirements to specialize in a degree involve all sorts of generic classes that you "must" attend in order to graduate with your degree in that specific area. Too few colleges are streamlined, affordable, or suitable for adults who want to further education or go back for a second career / degree.

The apathetic job market, combined with the high and rising cost of tuition, makes for a lose-lose situation.

When I was a high school grad (1997) my English teacher told me that he believed a 4 year degree was what a "high school diploma used to be" in terms of worth in the job market. He's probably right. If I had to go back, I'd probably have gone to community college instead and trade school and made myself get straight As and THEN apply for Master's scholarships.

I did well in school but only got partial scholarships. Even going to a state university and working 36 hrs/ wk WHILE attending full-time only did so much. I'm still paying off school loans and it's ridiculous.

I graduated with my Bachelors and a 3.92 GPA.










kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Jun. 13, 2012 at 2:51 PM

 I'm sorry, are we arguing semantics here?

Here's the bottom line.  You pay, out of pocket, for only a third of your education.  All the taxes you pay as an individual do not come even close to paying for the rest of your education.  We are all, as taxpayers, paying the government to dole money out where they see fit.  So yes, the government is paying. Once you pay taxes, the tax money belongs to the government.  The government sees fit to use a chunk of that money to pay for your education, my education, my neighbor's education, etc etc etc.  That money makes up 2/3rds of your education.  So complain about student loans all you want, but remember that you aren't paying even half of what the government pays for you to get your education. 

Quoting L1558:

Like so many working college alumni who fortunately now have (hopefully somewhat decent) jobs and pay taxes. The government doesn't really give you anything of "theirs".

;o)


Quoting kailu1835:

 Taxpayers.

Quoting L1558:


Quoting kailu1835:

 Students know what they're getting into when they sign the contracts for student loans.  They make the conscious decision to get an expensive degree that they cannot pay for.  They have the ability to get grants, scholarships, etc, as well as the ability to pay on their loan while they are still in school so that their loan doesn't keep accruing massive amounts of interest (which makes up a pretty big portion of the loan when they finally do get out of school and start their lives).

I do not believe that any student going to college should be exempt for paying for their financial aid.  Nobody HAS to go get an expensive degree that may or may not do anything for them.

Also, I don't know if you all are aware of this, but you are actually only paying for about a third of your education.  The government pays the other 2/3rds.

Maybe, but who pays the government?

 


 

babiesbabybaby development

krysstizzle
by on Jun. 13, 2012 at 2:53 PM

I agree with Tanya.

The point of college is to get an education. That, in turn, should lead to getting a job. 

A well-rounded education is just as important to a well-functioning society as jobs are. It doesn't have to be an either/or scenario. My education in fields other than my degree focus has given me valuable skills and knowledge in my job, even with a degree that many would consider a fluffy, useless degree (Master of Arts in Cultural Anthropology). Education and a broad knowledge base are important. 

Quoting L1558:

It shouldn't be the primary goal.

The whole idea of getting a degree is to get a job (just like technical school). I don't know about you, but I'd rather be gainfully employed than underemployed or unemployed with a wealth of useless information I'd paid for through the nose.

Quoting Tanya93:

And I disagree.


College isn't the place to get technical skills to get a job.

It is a place to get a well rounded education.

Quoting L1558:

I think that goal needs tweaking. In this day and age, a well-rounded education is worth less than a more streamlined area of expertise. When I was hired for a professional job based on a business background, my supervisor couldn't have cared less about whether or not I aced Renaissance-era literature.

Well-rounded educations are great in theory but that's what high school is for...when you are paying by the credit and need to focus to be more competitive...then the goal of well-rounded education is not much of a goal, IMO.

Quoting Tanya93:

Yes I do have 2 BA's and took plenty of classes that had nothing specifically to do with my majors.   It's part of getting a well rounded education which is the goal of a college degree.

Quoting L1558:

Sweetheart, I took the other classes (I have already obtained a Bachelor's). I know what a well-rounded education is, but I don't see how taking Italian 101 or Physics 102 is necessary for that type of study. If you just want to study something specific but it is not offered in a technical or trade school, then sometimes you MUST go through the non-essentials and PAY FOR THEM. This is why I mentioned dissatisfaction in my original, first post.

Did you obtain a 4 year degree? If so, did you ever take a class which was not of use to you at all in your professional or even personal future? 

Quoting Tanya93:

Then you have to take the other classes.  College is about a well rounded education.  If you just wanted to study something specific, undergrad wasn't for you.

Quoting L1558:

I wanted to study statistics and global economy. I do not know of a technical school that offers this degree...do you?

Edit: this "certificate"

Quoting Tanya93:

Then get a certificate from a technical school if you don't have to actually have to take classes outside what you want to study.



Quoting L1558:

The price of college is completely over-the-top. The requirements to specialize in a degree involve all sorts of generic classes that you "must" attend in order to graduate with your degree in that specific area. Too few colleges are streamlined, affordable, or suitable for adults who want to further education or go back for a second career / degree.

The apathetic job market, combined with the high and rising cost of tuition, makes for a lose-lose situation.

When I was a high school grad (1997) my English teacher told me that he believed a 4 year degree was what a "high school diploma used to be" in terms of worth in the job market. He's probably right. If I had to go back, I'd probably have gone to community college instead and trade school and made myself get straight As and THEN apply for Master's scholarships.

I did well in school but only got partial scholarships. Even going to a state university and working 36 hrs/ wk WHILE attending full-time only did so much. I'm still paying off school loans and it's ridiculous.

I graduated with my Bachelors and a 3.92 GPA.










L1558
by Bronze Member on Jun. 13, 2012 at 3:00 PM
2 moms liked this

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't want to pay for fluff. I still think a well-rounded education should be called, "high school". I don't believe that a broad knowledge base is worth much as the jobs availability in our economy dwindles. When the heat is on, and you want to compete, you need to be more educated and specialized. Sure, education at any rate is never of zero value, but why my brother had to take golf -- a physical education class-- as part of his history degree, he never understood. I never use the Italian class that I took, and those classes weren't cheap.

Branch out some if you wish, but I don't think anything "fluffy" should be mandatory in a degree and see such mandated classes as the profit-making vehicle that they are. Think about it: we could cut back on tuition significantly if we could hone the focus to the classes that truly matter, as the offer of "well-rounded" fluff classes could always be available if you wish to add them to your repertoire. 

As I said, this is my opinion....it's cool to disagree.

Quoting krysstizzle:

I agree with Tanya.

The point of college is to get an education. That, in turn, should lead to getting a job. 

A well-rounded education is just as important to a well-functioning society as jobs are. It doesn't have to be an either/or scenario. My education in fields other than my degree focus has given me valuable skills and knowledge in my job, even with a degree that many would consider a fluffy, useless degree (Master of Arts in Cultural Anthropology). Education and a broad knowledge base are important. 

Quoting L1558:

It shouldn't be the primary goal.

The whole idea of getting a degree is to get a job (just like technical school). I don't know about you, but I'd rather be gainfully employed than underemployed or unemployed with a wealth of useless information I'd paid for through the nose.

Quoting Tanya93:

And I disagree.


College isn't the place to get technical skills to get a job.

It is a place to get a well rounded education.

Quoting L1558:

I think that goal needs tweaking. In this day and age, a well-rounded education is worth less than a more streamlined area of expertise. When I was hired for a professional job based on a business background, my supervisor couldn't have cared less about whether or not I aced Renaissance-era literature.

Well-rounded educations are great in theory but that's what high school is for...when you are paying by the credit and need to focus to be more competitive...then the goal of well-rounded education is not much of a goal, IMO.

Quoting Tanya93:

Yes I do have 2 BA's and took plenty of classes that had nothing specifically to do with my majors.   It's part of getting a well rounded education which is the goal of a college degree.

Quoting L1558:

Sweetheart, I took the other classes (I have already obtained a Bachelor's). I know what a well-rounded education is, but I don't see how taking Italian 101 or Physics 102 is necessary for that type of study. If you just want to study something specific but it is not offered in a technical or trade school, then sometimes you MUST go through the non-essentials and PAY FOR THEM. This is why I mentioned dissatisfaction in my original, first post.

Did you obtain a 4 year degree? If so, did you ever take a class which was not of use to you at all in your professional or even personal future? 

Quoting Tanya93:

Then you have to take the other classes.  College is about a well rounded education.  If you just wanted to study something specific, undergrad wasn't for you.

Quoting L1558:

I wanted to study statistics and global economy. I do not know of a technical school that offers this degree...do you?

Edit: this "certificate"

Quoting Tanya93:

Then get a certificate from a technical school if you don't have to actually have to take classes outside what you want to study.



Quoting L1558:

The price of college is completely over-the-top. The requirements to specialize in a degree involve all sorts of generic classes that you "must" attend in order to graduate with your degree in that specific area. Too few colleges are streamlined, affordable, or suitable for adults who want to further education or go back for a second career / degree.

The apathetic job market, combined with the high and rising cost of tuition, makes for a lose-lose situation.

When I was a high school grad (1997) my English teacher told me that he believed a 4 year degree was what a "high school diploma used to be" in terms of worth in the job market. He's probably right. If I had to go back, I'd probably have gone to community college instead and trade school and made myself get straight As and THEN apply for Master's scholarships.

I did well in school but only got partial scholarships. Even going to a state university and working 36 hrs/ wk WHILE attending full-time only did so much. I'm still paying off school loans and it's ridiculous.

I graduated with my Bachelors and a 3.92 GPA.











LexRi0709
by on Jun. 13, 2012 at 3:00 PM
Most people cant afford $800-$1000 a semester going part time. I know I can't. I take 2 classes. The classes are just under $700, plus the cost of books, which average $75-$80 a piece if they are used. I qualify for the pell grant, which luckily for me covers all my expenses.

Dh did not qualify, because of his parents income and now has $14,000 in student loans for a LEO certification, EMT certification and an associates in criminal justice. He could not get hired in the criminal justice field, so right now he's in medical.

College is not cheap, even at a community college.


Quoting stephanie73401:

Why do people think that they must have a loan to go to college? What happened to people working to pay for things with real money instead of credit and interest? I think teaching your children that debt is acceptable is the wrong path completely.

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L1558
by Bronze Member on Jun. 13, 2012 at 3:06 PM
3 moms liked this

I don't see how the government spends taxpayer money as semantics, but if you want to call it that, it's okay with me.

I understand the bottom line and don't need it explained to me any more than you think you need it explained to you. I believe that the tuition is hiked highly because of the funds it can receive, and I think with streamlined classes and affordable rates there would be a boon in attendance. 

The government is supposed to be run BY the people as it was created FOR the people. It most certainly should be run as we see fit. What I am saying is that the government isn't giving us college education money out of the goodness of its heart. Colleges are able to charge their rates because of the money the government gives them. It sounds like you are implying we should be writing the government thank you notes...when in fact, the government wastes so much taxpayers' money that the thought alone is laughable.

Additionally, the government has much deeper pockets than an individual. I guess what I'm saying is, I'll complain all I like about my student loan. :o)

Quoting kailu1835:

 I'm sorry, are we arguing semantics here?

Here's the bottom line.  You pay, out of pocket, for only a third of your education.  All the taxes you pay as an individual do not come even close to paying for the rest of your education.  We are all, as taxpayers, paying the government to dole money out where they see fit.  So yes, the government is paying. Once you pay taxes, the tax money belongs to the government.  The government sees fit to use a chunk of that money to pay for your education, my education, my neighbor's education, etc etc etc.  That money makes up 2/3rds of your education.  So complain about student loans all you want, but remember that you aren't paying even half of what the government pays for you to get your education. 

Quoting L1558:

Like so many working college alumni who fortunately now have (hopefully somewhat decent) jobs and pay taxes. The government doesn't really give you anything of "theirs".

;o)


Quoting kailu1835:

 Taxpayers.

Quoting L1558:


Quoting kailu1835:

 Students know what they're getting into when they sign the contracts for student loans.  They make the conscious decision to get an expensive degree that they cannot pay for.  They have the ability to get grants, scholarships, etc, as well as the ability to pay on their loan while they are still in school so that their loan doesn't keep accruing massive amounts of interest (which makes up a pretty big portion of the loan when they finally do get out of school and start their lives).

I do not believe that any student going to college should be exempt for paying for their financial aid.  Nobody HAS to go get an expensive degree that may or may not do anything for them.

Also, I don't know if you all are aware of this, but you are actually only paying for about a third of your education.  The government pays the other 2/3rds.

Maybe, but who pays the government?

 


 


survivorinohio
by René on Jun. 13, 2012 at 3:10 PM
1 mom liked this

My only issues with student loans and the way they are handled is how they grow exponentially once in default. In my opinion 20,000 is really steep for charges related to a loan of the same value.

How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


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