Question for those against gay adoption
So, if you could change the laws tomorrow to restrict adoption to married heterosexuals, would you?
And what would you like to see happen to children already adopted by gay couples?
Welcome to biology-
Quoting LavenderMom23:
A gay home is not a quality home compared to a heterosexual one
. To say two men are great for a child is anti mother ...so a mom as a woman has no value at all there is nothing a gay man can't give that a mother can. I'm not talking just understanding of physical parts. But emotionally a woman parents different her brain is physically different and has unique qualities a man cannot possess ever. I don't care how feminine he tries to be brain scans show a man and woman are fundamental different in thought and in parenting and in teaching style and in their basic response to things. Men will never replace a mother. You can't provide in a same sex household what is there in a heterosexual. It's not hate or religion pushing ...its biology.
Quoting FromAtoZ:
Quoting LavenderMom23:
To those who think a bad home is better than no home ...hasn't seen bad. And do we hurt a child with a maybe home permanently when that's about the quality of foster care and take from that child a chance for a great home? Screw the gays bc a child is the primary concern in an adoption not some 10% of the population political movement. I think of the child first.I do not want to assume I understand your post above.
I don't recall any one saying a bad home is better than no home.
Are you saying that gay people can not provide a good home for children?
Please, do try to take the time to explain what you mean and re-read your post prior to hitting reply.
What statistics? What is your source for this claim?
Quoting LavenderMom23:
Look at the cold hard facts of what happens to children raised by gays statistically and you will understand a mother is not just as good as a father or vise versa. It takes both the importance of a mother and the value of a father to raise children. The two are not interchangeable. Each has an irreplaceable worth to a child. This is not about what we are denying gays ...rather what you would deny a child. No I would not tear apart those already placed BC its too late. But when you know better you do better.
I'm glad for that because after I sat back and really thought about the issue, I sincerely think that is a wonderful 'fit'. These kids need strong, successful examples of parents/human beings that HAVE walked in their shoes. Feeling of isolation and abandonment are very real issues to these children. As much as I can empathize with them, I can't accurately and adequately `feel' what they do.
Quoting Raintree:
On this issue, you and poodles give me a lot of hope- thank you. :)
Quoting MeAndTommyLee:
What you say is very true. An awful lot of children are in need of loving and nurturing homes because for whatever the reason, and in many cases, where failed by their own parents. I would imgine hat they feel a sense of exclusion from society because of the fact that they do not have a `family'. Therefore, historically gay/lesbians couples have experienced a different sense of `exclusion' themselves. And what better people to understand that child in need?
Quoting toomanypoodles:
Quoting MeAndTommyLee:
Presently I am in the process of re-evaluating my position on gay/lesbian couples adopting due to conversations I've had with some ladies here, on CM.
I did this a year ago. ;)
The conclusion I came to was we don't live in a perfect world, there are noperfect parents. (Not even Poodles. ;)) If children in need of a home only went to perfect parents there'd be way too many children never being placed in loving, forever homes. Getting children in homes is more important than who their mommies and daddies choose to sleep with.
As a Christian I don't believe homosexuality is morally right, but what makes a homosexual unable to love and parent a child? Nothing.
I don't think smoking and drinking are morally right either, but does that mean someone that has a drink can't be a parent or one who smokes can't love a kid?
This may not make any sense to any of you but I'll try.
I honestly don't know. I realize that gay couples are just as capable of being loving parents as anyone else. Aside from what I already mentioned as far as young children having that tendency to want to be like their parents, resulting in conflict between what they've grown up along with societies attitude towards young kids engaging in sexual activity, they could easily end up experiementing with members of both sexes, I don't think that's something most parents would want for their children. Considering the fact that for most children, their parents are their role models, some may lean towards that same type of relationship, may engage in a same sex relationship, not because they are gay but simply because to them, that is what's normal, that's what they've grown up with.
Aside from that, I tend to look at it from the adoptive side of things. Many, many adoptees have some issues resulting from the simple fact of adoption itself. It's why there are groups advocating for the release of original birth records on request upon reaching adulthood. It's why many search out their birth parents. It's also a fact that many wait to search until after the death of their parents because they don't want to hurt them. Some never do, either because they have no desire or for some, an unspoken fear they may find something they really don't want to know. The adoptee who can truly say they've never had any questions at all is rare. Adoptees, even as young children, often become aware of differences between themselves and their parents. Some differences are very visible, such as appearance. Adoptee has blue eyes, blonde hair but all their known relatives have brown eyes and brown hair...or an inate love of sports their families dont' share. There are, however, other differences that they become aware of as they grow older...those differences can be as subtle as how one processes information, reacts to things or even various like and dislikes.
No one know how much or little heredity affects people and it most likely differs from person to person but it does affect us. I am in NO way saying people shouldn't adopt, just they they need to be aware that their child, may, as a teen and/or young adult deal with questions (unoften unasked), doubts, insecurities, identity, etc. that biological children do not and those feelings have nothing whatever to do with the love of or for their parents. Being raised by a gay couple could easily add another level of questioning, doubts, insecurities to the questions they already have about themselves and those particular feelings would be even more personal and possibly even more internalized because they concern the very personal issue of their sexuality. Of course a child adopted by a hetero couple may not also be hetero resulting in these same issues but it's far more likely in the case of gay adoption. The child who is a biological child of a gay couple, through invitro, etc. at least does have that biological conection to one parent so they don't have the issues as teens/adults that a fully adopted child often does no matter who adopts him/her.
So no, I don't know if it's a good idea for gay couples to adopt or not and I don't think anyone else really does either. What I'm quite certain of is that adoption is unfortunatly, big business which is a real shame because children should never be doled out to the highest bidder so to speak.
What about gays who are in straight marriages so they look heterosexual?
Your basic premise 'young children want to be like their parents' is kind of blown out of the water by the fact that gay children are raised by heterosexual parents, almost always.
I agree that adoption causes a fundamental wound, in the adoptee, that has nothing to do with the why (from dead mom to removed from incompetent care by the state) or who adopts (from excellent, loving and stable adoptive parents to the crazy ones).
Quoting meriana:This may not make any sense to any of you but I'll try.
I honestly don't know. I realize that gay couples are just as capable of being loving parents as anyone else. Aside from what I already mentioned as far as young children having that tendency to want to be like their parents, resulting in conflict between what they've grown up along with societies attitude towards young kids engaging in sexual activity, they could easily end up experiementing with members of both sexes, I don't think that's something most parents would want for their children. Considering the fact that for most children, their parents are their role models, some may lean towards that same type of relationship, may engage in a same sex relationship, not because they are gay but simply because to them, that is what's normal, that's what they've grown up with.
Aside from that, I tend to look at it from the adoptive side of things. Many, many adoptees have some issues resulting from the simple fact of adoption itself. It's why there are groups advocating for the release of original birth records on request upon reaching adulthood. It's why many search out their birth parents. It's also a fact that many wait to search until after the death of their parents because they don't want to hurt them. Some never do, either because they have no desire or for some, an unspoken fear they may find something they really don't want to know. The adoptee who can truly say they've never had any questions at all is rare. Adoptees, even as young children, often become aware of differences between themselves and their parents. Some differences are very visible, such as appearance. Adoptee has blue eyes, blonde hair but all their known relatives have brown eyes and brown hair...or an inate love of sports their families dont' share. There are, however, other differences that they become aware of as they grow older...those differences can be as subtle as how one processes information, reacts to things or even various like and dislikes.
No one know how much or little heredity affects people and it most likely differs from person to person but it does affect us. I am in NO way saying people shouldn't adopt, just they they need to be aware that their child, may, as a teen and/or young adult deal with questions (unoften unasked), doubts, insecurities, identity, etc. that biological children do not and those feelings have nothing whatever to do with the love of or for their parents. Being raised by a gay couple could easily add another level of questioning, doubts, insecurities to the questions they already have about themselves and those particular feelings would be even more personal and possibly even more internalized because they concern the very personal issue of their sexuality. Of course a child adopted by a hetero couple may not also be hetero resulting in these same issues but it's far more likely in the case of gay adoption. The child who is a biological child of a gay couple, through invitro, etc. at least does have that biological conection to one parent so they don't have the issues as teens/adults that a fully adopted child often does no matter who adopts him/her.
So no, I don't know if it's a good idea for gay couples to adopt or not and I don't think anyone else really does either. What I'm quite certain of is that adoption is unfortunatly, big business which is a real shame because children should never be doled out to the highest bidder so to speak.
Have you ever been or known someone is state custody? My husband and his sisters were in state care. One of his sisters was raped, the other was always trying to kill herself, and my husband was beaten so bad he was hospitalized and had to have surgery.
At least they didn't have to be loved and taken care of by gay parents.
Quoting 35yoamom:1st- children being adopted by a gay couple, get no option in having a different lifestyle than the others. Just like being orphaned, they are thrust into an abnormal world, into where they don't get to experience the same thing as other children do. See, now if they are at an age where they can personally decide they want this, then there is no reason not to! however, most children are thrust into an enviroment they may not be comfortable with against there free will. Is this fair?
2nd- The child starts to grow and develop an understanding that their parents are different from others parents, and suddenly they are thrust into a world, where they are bullied, and ridiculed for something they have no control over.
Conclusion- Again, i am a strong believer in child choice rights. I don't beleive a child should grow up or live in an enviroment that's abnormal, from what was meant to be. I believe we need to provide them with the proper route, that will lead to the ultimate path of happiness. By keeping gay adoption legal, we are infringing upon rights of the people most important in this world, the people who will one day be the ones who alter the world into something beautiful and great. Our children and youth!
source
http://www.zenit.org/article-11455?l=english
Not to long ago we were saying the very same things about mixed Raced families, and single families. All of it was proven basically wrong (there are always exceptions to the rules) This is no different.. For those say think about the children I will say this again in MOST cases Same sex couples PLAN, Save and WANT the child/ren they get no matter how they get them. In most cases its double the cost of what a single parent or hetero parents pay to have children.
As long as the child/ren have all of their basic needs provided for and are wanted, loved and Cherished why does it matter what kind of family they come from.
Same sex couples because they cant marry and not always have the choice of going the traditional route to have kids Crimp save, and Rearrange their lives to bring a child or children into their lives and world. NOT many Hetero parents do this. They put the needs of their child/ren over their own and devote more time and energy into raising their child/ren under a very watchful eye of stuck up self centered Homophobic Christians who will use any excuse they can to break up a happy loving well adjusted family for their own warped sense of what is right and wrong while their children are off being demon spawns. However because they are straight it makes them BETTER parents ONLY because they are straight NOT because of any other logical rational reason.
In many cases children raised in same sex homes are better for it then those raised in Hetero 2 parent homes but that will be lost on many in this group it seems.
*edited*
What makes a great parent isn't always based on structure of a family. Unconditional Love, Patience, and understanding go a long ways. So does just being wanted goes along ways to raising a good kid.
As someone else who grew up in a conservative Christian home, I came to a similar conclusion years ago right after high school. One of my best friends "came out" while we were in college. He is with the same boyfriend 25 years later. Another friend of mine I met in college has also been in the same relationship for over 20 years and is DH and my best friend "couple" for those 20 years. These two couples are four of the most stable, together, intelligent, successful and moral folks we know. They both live in states where they cannot marry and do not have children...but they are the listed guardians to a few, including ours, if anything were to ever happen to us. I can't think of anyone better than my girls "gay uncles" to raise them if we cannot.
Quoting MeAndTommyLee:
I am a 45 year old woman that was raised in a strict Italian-American, Catholic family. Growing up my parents were quite adamant that the gay/lesbian life was `sinful'. As a result I viewed the lifestyle the same way my parents did. It was not until I became a mother myself in my mid-twenties that I started to question the validity of their beliefs and realized that I did not agree with their `rules' on morality, Therefore, I made a conscience effort to NOT pass the thinking on to my children because I wanted them to be allowed to come to their own conclusions based on their own feelings, experiences, etc. I did so by not `enouraging' them to or away from any particular pairings.
Quite recently I found myself questioning my own appalling judgements on gay/lesbian adoptions. The remnants of my upbringing against such notions was causing me to make narrow-minded statements right here on CM. And after re-reading my posts and the replies I received, I saw that I was being uncompromisingly judgemental. As I consider myself a Christian, I was NOT modeling the behaviour by excluding, separating and passing judgement on a community of persons that are just as much entitled as I am to express love, and desire children.
Quoting NWP:
Interesting..do you feel safe enough to share your thoughts here? I would love to know what you are working through.
Quoting MeAndTommyLee:
Presently I am in the process of re-evaluating my position on gay/lesbian couples adopting due to conversations I've had with some ladies here, on CM.
National Woman's Party
Thank you for sharing this...CM isn't always the safest place for that...Like A to Z, it is something I also admire.
Quoting MeAndTommyLee:Thank you. Sometimes the hardest person to be honest with, is ourselves.
My children are growing up in a world that is far more accepting than mine was. Gay/Lesbians and `coloreds' (yes, I cringe now too) were the dregs of society. Oppressed, segregated and treated with fear, hostility and contempt. It is/was shameful and WRONG. I did not see it back then. I was led to believe that I was `lucky' to be born white, Catholic and heterosexual. Archie Bunker ruled the world.
We need to widen the scope of acceptance if we are to evolve. I am comfortable with discussing issues with my own children and WANT to know how they feel and what brought them to any particular conculsion. My parents did not communicate with me. They TOLD me how to feel, how to SEE others and I believed them because they were my parents. I love/ed them very much. Don't hold anything against them at all and understand that they only taught me what they were taught themselves. It's a cycle, and while some cycles are good, this is NOT and it needs to be broken. I could not consider myself a good person, Christian and parent IF I taught my own children intolerance and ignorance because that's what I was taught.
Quoting FromAtoZ:
National Woman's Party
Holder to investigate....Holder
Mother of HOW many?!
- Raintree
on Jun. 16, 2012 at 5:20 PM