For those who were so very excited about Louisiana's voucher program....
SO, when it is a Muslim school, the Republicans say "no", but a Christian school is A-OK.
No hypocrisy there, eh?
My own opinion is that no religious schools should receive federal funds. NO RELIGIOUS schools whatsoever.
The Muslim school has since withdrawn its application, to the delight of the legislators who oppose religion that isn't their chosen form in the schools.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/louisiana_n_1593995.html
(I chose a Huffington Post article, there are others, if you care to look them up, the basic facts are the same.)
Louisiana Lawmakers Object To Funding Islamic School Under New Voucher Program
By Gregory Kristof Posted: 06/14/2012 3:06 pm Updated: 06/14/2012 3:06 pm
Under the bill, called the Minimim Foundations Program and passed into law last week by the Louisiana legislature, students at failing public high schools can use government-paid vouchers to enroll in alternate schools -- including those that are private or religiously affiliated. The program represents a bold endeavor by the state to privatize public education.
Stakes escalated last week when, to the frustration of some lawmakers, the Islamic School of Greater New Orleans applied for federal funds under the voucher program. Republican state Rep. Kenneth Havard objected to the Islamic School's request for 38 government-paid student vouchers, saying he opposed any bill that "will fund Islamic teaching," the Associated Press reports.
"I won't go back home and explain to my people that I supported this," he said.
"It'll be the Church of Scientology next year," Democratic state Rep. Sam Jones told AP.
The Islamic School of Greater New Orleans withdrew its request for vouchers before the bill went to vote.
Critics have pointed out that while the potential diversion of federal funds toward a Muslim school generated controversy among legislators, the state was already slotted under the new voucher program to provide millions of dollars to schools run by Christian churches.
The New Living Word School near Ruston, for example, is a church-run school that had been approved for $2.7 million of taxpayer money under the Minimum Foundations Program. The New Living Word School was granted permission to take 315 school vouchers -- the largest number for any school -- even though it has no library, and students reportedly spend most of their day watching Biblically-themed DVDs.
Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal is also facing scrutiny, as two groups have filed lawsuits that challenge the governor's bold education package, which calls for using public school dollars to fund private and parochial school vouchers. If passed, Jindal's program would fund tuition for poor and middle-class children at more than 120 Louisiana private schools, including small, Bible-based church schools. Public schools, however, would lose a portion of state funding every time a student moves from a public to private school under the program.
The controversy over the New Living Word School and the Islamic School of Greater New Orleans comes at a time in which religious and secular tensions are running high in the South.
In neighboring Mississippi, Gov. Phil Bryant recently advocated for non-denominational school prayer "at some point." The Republican Methodist governor said in his speech to about 300 high school students that school prayer would "let people know there is a God." He said that although he would not take legal action to pursue the issue, he hopes that one day school prayer would be common.
In South Carolina, the Freedom From Religion Foundation and one of its local members filed a lawsuit last week against School District Five of Lexington and Richland counties over a district policy that sets benediction and invocation practices for school events.
The plaintiff, Matthew Nielson, filed the lawsuit after an initial letter of complaint voicing constitutional concerns was rejected by the district. The legal complaint indicts the district for "excessive governmental entanglement with religion."
This rebellion against the alleged intrusion of faith in schools raises the question of whether state funding for the New Ward School and other faith-based schools under Louisiana's new program will stoke similar fears of mingling between church and state.
And here is the news item where they have withdrawn:
http://www.wbrz.com/news/islamic-school-no-longer-on-la-voucher-list/
You are right, unless it is taught in conjunction with The Big Bang Theory.
Quoting Tanya93:
Let me rephrase this
Teaching evolution has nothing to do with creation of the heaven and earth.
Quoting kailu1835:
That's a hoot. I have heard for myself a teacher tell a student that her belief in God was just a "belief" while what she was teaching was "fact." If that's not telling students that God doesn't really exist, then I don't know what is. Teaching evolution IS teaching that God doesn't exist, since most people who believe in God believe that He created the heavens and the earth. Creationism is a fundamental belief for most believers in God, so teaching that Evolution is a fact is teaching that Creationism, and therefore God, is not real.
Yes. We had workbooks and learned on our own and the teachers were available for questions. A lot of students graduated by age 17. We often didn't have school on Fridays because we got all our work done during the week.
Quoting kailu1835:
Was it ACE curriculum? I loved it. We had awards at the end of the year for most Paces. I got the award the first year for the lower learning center (K-6 grade)
Quoting TruthSeeker.:
I went to private Christian school until 8th grade. I was ahead 2 yrs in most subjects except science. We had our own cubicles and learned at our own paces. I really enjoyed it. I felt stifled and held back when I went to public school.
Quoting kailu1835:
What school is that?
I went to a private "church" school for 2 years. When I went in, I was behind in math and science. We had cubicles in which we did our work in our workbooks (no DVD's) and had group time dispersed throughout the day. When I left the school, I was 2 years ahead of the public school in every subject. The "church" schools are worlds ahead of the public schools, which need to be dissolved altogether and vouchers given out instead.
So long as they don't tell me I have to be a part of said religion, I personally do not care. I can see the pitfalls with it, but it still isn't protected against in the constitution.
Quoting Shortiekt:
Would you like for a specific religion to be endorsed by the government?
Quoting kailu1835:
That's a bit of a stretch. The vouchers are for private schools. Not all private schools are church schools. As long as they fit the criteria, there is no reason why the child cannot use the voucher for any school with any religion or lack of religion. There are plenty of private schools an athiest could happily send their children to.
ETA: The constitution says that the government cannot establish a national religion. It says squat about not being allowed to endorse a religion. That little "separation of church and state" crap is found NOWHERE in the constitution. It came up because it was in the writings of ONE of the founding fathers.
Also, the government has said that our children are entitled to quality education. So we are well within our rights to demand that they get said quality education, which they are absolutely NOT getting in the public school system.
Quoting IhartU:
Quoting DarlaHood:
why should the athiest tax payer have a problem? I'm not supposed to have a problem with paying my taxes for schools that teach that God doesn't exist. What's the diff. We should both have the right to educate our children as we see fit.
The difference is that the Bill of Rights says the Government can't endorse religion and by using tax payer money- some of which comes from non-believers, to send children to religious schools, the Government is in essence endorsing religions and alienating non-believers who are also American tax-payers.
That voucher money should go towards making the Publc Schools better not to people who feel they are 'entitled' to other options and want free money for it. You don't like the Public Schools, then home school...
Evolution teaches that men came from monkeys. Christianity teaches that God created man from the dust of the earth. It is directly contradictory to Christianity, in most Christian churches' doctrines. I believe evolution can be taught side by side with Christianity, if you leave out the part about men coming from monkeys. I believe that God created what the Bible said he created, and then let nature take its course. Evolution, meaning change in and of the species, is perfectly acceptable in this case. But there's no doubt that the Bible states that God created Man, not that he created an animal that later evolved to become man.
Quoting Tanya93:
Let me rephrase this
Teaching evolution has nothing to do with creation of the heaven and earth.
Quoting kailu1835:
That's a hoot. I have heard for myself a teacher tell a student that her belief in God was just a "belief" while what she was teaching was "fact." If that's not telling students that God doesn't really exist, then I don't know what is. Teaching evolution IS teaching that God doesn't exist, since most people who believe in God believe that He created the heavens and the earth. Creationism is a fundamental belief for most believers in God, so teaching that Evolution is a fact is teaching that Creationism, and therefore God, is not real.
Quoting momtoscott:
I think the agenda of the legislators here is pretty clear, unfortunately. (I wonder if any Jewish private schools have applied to be part of the program.)
An additional problem with vouchers, besides the fact that they move money away from public schools, is that the private or charter schools have no obligation to stay in business. There have been a number of cases where charter schools, even though they are supposedly "public," for example, have abruptly closed, and then the kids in them have had to be sent back to their old schools, which in the meantime have gotten even weaker due to lack of funds. Everybody loses when we don't have strong, well-funded public schools.
There are no public schools in the USA, as far as I know, where any child is taught that God does not exist. Teaching evolution in science class is not the same as teaching atheism.
That rocks :D
I'm looking into using ACE as one aspect of homeschooling curriculum. I graduated at 16 because of that program :) If my kids want to work fast like that, they'll have that ability, or if they need to take it slower, they'll have that ability also :)
Quoting TruthSeeker.:
Yes. We had workbooks and learned on our own and the teachers were available for questions. A lot of students graduated by age 17. We often didn't have school on Fridays because we got all our work done during the week.
Quoting kailu1835:
Was it ACE curriculum? I loved it. We had awards at the end of the year for most Paces. I got the award the first year for the lower learning center (K-6 grade)
Quoting TruthSeeker.:
I went to private Christian school until 8th grade. I was ahead 2 yrs in most subjects except science. We had our own cubicles and learned at our own paces. I really enjoyed it. I felt stifled and held back when I went to public school.
Quoting kailu1835:
What school is that?
I went to a private "church" school for 2 years. When I went in, I was behind in math and science. We had cubicles in which we did our work in our workbooks (no DVD's) and had group time dispersed throughout the day. When I left the school, I was 2 years ahead of the public school in every subject. The "church" schools are worlds ahead of the public schools, which need to be dissolved altogether and vouchers given out instead.
i personally think that the alloted amount for schooling each year should be given to the parents and if they choose public school, charter school or home school then each child gets the same amount.
I think any school...no matter the religion or faith should be allowed to receive vouchers. If the public schools can't pull their act together then parents should have the right to choose where the money attached to their children is sent or spent.
Quoting kailu1835:So long as they don't tell me I have to be a part of said religion, I personally do not care. I can see the pitfalls with it, but it still isn't protected against in the constitution.
Quoting Shortiekt:
Would you like for a specific religion to be endorsed by the government?
Quoting kailu1835:
That's a bit of a stretch. The vouchers are for private schools. Not all private schools are church schools. As long as they fit the criteria, there is no reason why the child cannot use the voucher for any school with any religion or lack of religion. There are plenty of private schools an athiest could happily send their children to.
ETA: The constitution says that the government cannot establish a national religion. It says squat about not being allowed to endorse a religion. That little "separation of church and state" crap is found NOWHERE in the constitution. It came up because it was in the writings of ONE of the founding fathers.
Also, the government has said that our children are entitled to quality education. So we are well within our rights to demand that they get said quality education, which they are absolutely NOT getting in the public school system.
Quoting IhartU:
Quoting DarlaHood:
why should the athiest tax payer have a problem? I'm not supposed to have a problem with paying my taxes for schools that teach that God doesn't exist. What's the diff. We should both have the right to educate our children as we see fit.
The difference is that the Bill of Rights says the Government can't endorse religion and by using tax payer money- some of which comes from non-believers, to send children to religious schools, the Government is in essence endorsing religions and alienating non-believers who are also American tax-payers.
That voucher money should go towards making the Publc Schools better not to people who feel they are 'entitled' to other options and want free money for it. You don't like the Public Schools, then home school...
Stay out of our private schools!
Dear God,
Stay out of our public schools!
This is reason NUMBER ONE why we left Mississippi.... The schools and the people in charge of them. I want to move back, but to Louisiana (we lived on the line). But it won't happen until our kids are out of school!
Yeah, she did.
But she doesn't want a theocracy...just for the government to endorse her particular brand of belief.
Which, when I think about it, would increase the profitability of whatever church lobbied hardest for the endorsement.
Quoting LauraKW:
Did you just say it is Constitutional for the govt to endorse a specific religion?
Quoting kailu1835:
So long as they don't tell me I have to be a part of said religion, I personally do not care. I can see the pitfalls with it, but it still isn't protected against in the constitution.
Quoting Shortiekt:
Would you like for a specific religion to be endorsed by the government?
Quoting kailu1835:
That's a bit of a stretch. The vouchers are for private schools. Not all private schools are church schools. As long as they fit the criteria, there is no reason why the child cannot use the voucher for any school with any religion or lack of religion. There are plenty of private schools an athiest could happily send their children to.
ETA: The constitution says that the government cannot establish a national religion. It says squat about not being allowed to endorse a religion. That little "separation of church and state" crap is found NOWHERE in the constitution. It came up because it was in the writings of ONE of the founding fathers.
Also, the government has said that our children are entitled to quality education. So we are well within our rights to demand that they get said quality education, which they are absolutely NOT getting in the public school system.
Quoting IhartU:
Quoting DarlaHood:
why should the athiest tax payer have a problem? I'm not supposed to have a problem with paying my taxes for schools that teach that God doesn't exist. What's the diff. We should both have the right to educate our children as we see fit.
The difference is that the Bill of Rights says the Government can't endorse religion and by using tax payer money- some of which comes from non-believers, to send children to religious schools, the Government is in essence endorsing religions and alienating non-believers who are also American tax-payers.
That voucher money should go towards making the Publc Schools better not to people who feel they are 'entitled' to other options and want free money for it. You don't like the Public Schools, then home school...
Holder to investigate....Holder
Fluffy AND Stupid
- GLWerth
on Jun. 18, 2012 at 6:12 PM