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Voting to ban same sex marriage is immoral.

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What is the definition of morality? 

Voting to ban same sex marriage actively HARMS other people by refusing to allow them to have civil rights.  Banning same sex marriage means homosexual people cannot form families.  That is one of the cruelest things one group of people can do to another group of people, because the family is the foundation of our society. 

People engaged in homosexual relationships are not doing anything immoral because they are not harming anyone.  They are consenting adults.  It is the anti-gay people who are committing immoral acts.

by on Aug. 9, 2012 at 10:24 PM
Replies (251-256):
Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Aug. 17, 2012 at 9:07 AM

 

Quoting momtoscott:

 

Quoting Meadowchik:

 

Quoting momtoscott:

 I don't know any sisters who want to get married to one another or any mother-daughter pairs who want to get married.  Maybe I should expand my social circle.  I do know a whole bunch of gay couples who want to marry one another--fortunately in my state, they can.  I'm all for people being able to enter into social contracts wherein they can help one another and get the benefits of doing so--and for those social contracts to have teeth so that those in them can't pull out at the first sign of difficulty. 

Whether you know any or not is irrelevent.  How many people knew gay couples who wanted to get married 50 years ago.  Not many.  I know atleast two people who would appreciate the legal benefits of being able to marry someone that they are not allowed to marry by law, and still would not be if ssm were legalised where they live. Those people exist.  And more people like that will be cropping up as marriage becomes less and less about hetero mating and more about the paper benefits of next-of-kinship.

As I note above, I'm fine with expansion of these social contracts.

Most studies that I'm aware of say that married people tend to be happier, live longer, and make more money in the long run than single people.  If we let gay people marry, I would imagine our society would benefit as a whole from having more people enjoy those benefits. 

Those do not mean that gay couples can only have those benefits through the marriage contract.  That is a logical fallacy.

Yes, that isn't the only way they can have those benefits.  However, this is one way to achieve those benefits, and one that many gay couples want. 

 

I also believe civil rights should not be a voting matter.  As someone whose gender has had the vote for a relatively short time, I am grateful that the issue of women voting was not decided at the polls. 

I am not arguing for or against voting in this topic, what I most hope for is deep consideration for all the issues related to marriage and that they are not swept under a rug in the name of one single issue.  As I have said before, there will still be those who are left out of marriage even with ssm legalization.  In order to make it all fair, marriage as a public institution will no longer exist as that mythical union combining mates.  Changing now for gays will in all fairness require more revolutionary changes. 

I agree with that.  The prospect of further changes doesn't bother me.  

"Natural law" is a human construct, as is the idea of a natural right or a civil right, and all are capable of being developed in subtlety over time by moral thinkers.  I don't believe expanding the scope of marriage to include gay unions, and even polyandrous or polygamous unions, is going to devalue the idea of providing children with a stable and harmonious environment. 

Marriage is a human construct, too. Natural law is observation of nature:  there are no documented cases of a compised of biological males making a baby or a couple comprised of biological females making babies.  That's is as factual as facts get. ;)

Nature is full of models of mating and raising offspring that we would do well not to follow.  New male mates killing the offspring of the old male mates, female spiders biting off the heads of males, etc.  I think we're capable of figuring out how do do this better.   

I have come to believe that it is immoral for straight people who can get married to deny the many legal benefits of this institution to gays--either we should all give the benefits up, or we should all have them. 

I still believe that it is immoral to disestablish the institution of marriage.

I am fine with expanding the institution of marriage, rather than disestablishing it.  I would prefer that that happen, rather than the other.       

 

 

Define "expand."

Including all those groups (same-sex couples, then close relatives, then making temporary relationships much easier) would not expand marriage, but would deconstruct, or disestablish it, atleast as far as the legal construction.  One cannot make something more plentiful simply by changing the definition. It might make the new definition more plentiful, but not the original.

Furthermore, consider this:  if we continue to try to make things "even" for everybody, what about those who are single, against their will?  It is true that there are single folks who would like to be married, but who do not have a consenting partner.  Why should they have a different legal status then anyone else?  The only fair solution is to eliminate the legal status of marriage in the first place. 

I readily admit that marriage is supposed to be a special thing: it is about a special union and it should be making the role of heterosexual mating legally and socially conspicuous because of the unique and significant consequences of heterosexual mating. 

nickysmom71
by Bronze Member on Aug. 17, 2012 at 10:07 AM

OMG hell froze over....we agree on something.....

Lizardannie1966
by on Aug. 17, 2012 at 10:34 AM
1 mom liked this

What strikes me about the issue of same sex marriage is that it's an issue to begin with?

Why on earth are so many people in this world spending so much time trying to ban something that has nothing to do with them? That is truly none of their business?

It's not about statistics. It's not about "God's Laws." It's not about innies and outies.

It's about loving someone. Wanting to make a life with that person and having the same equal rights to marry as that of a heterosexual couple.

SMH. So many in society today invest so much time and attention on butting into the lives of others that they can't see the eff ups in front of them and the REAL issues within our country.

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Aug. 17, 2012 at 10:43 AM


Quoting Lizardannie1966:

What strikes me about the issue of same sex marriage is that it's an issue to begin with?

Why on earth are so many people in this world spending so much time trying to ban something that has nothing to do with them? That is truly none of their business?

It's not about statistics. It's not about "God's Laws." It's not about innies and outies.

It's about loving someone. Wanting to make a life with that person and having the same equal rights to marry as that of a heterosexual couple.

SMH. So many in society today invest so much time and attention on butting into the lives of others that they can't see the eff ups in front of them and the REAL issues within our country.

Do you really not get why?

Why on earth are so many people in this world spending so much time trying to ban something that has nothing to do with them? That is truly none of their business?

Lizardannie1966
by on Aug. 17, 2012 at 10:47 AM


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting Lizardannie1966:

What strikes me about the issue of same sex marriage is that it's an issue to begin with?

Why on earth are so many people in this world spending so much time trying to ban something that has nothing to do with them? That is truly none of their business?

It's not about statistics. It's not about "God's Laws." It's not about innies and outies.

It's about loving someone. Wanting to make a life with that person and having the same equal rights to marry as that of a heterosexual couple.

SMH. So many in society today invest so much time and attention on butting into the lives of others that they can't see the eff ups in front of them and the REAL issues within our country.

Do you really not get why?

Why on earth are so many people in this world spending so much time trying to ban something that has nothing to do with them? That is truly none of their business?

I know why many of them feel they way the do but WHY should it matter to them to begin with? Just one of those societal oddities that no matter how often it's explained to me or people attempt to rationalize it, I will never fully understand it.

happymomma71
by on Aug. 17, 2012 at 11:55 AM

Same Sex marriage...morality vs legality?  That's two very distinct questions.  It can be legal without being moral.  Honestly, it should be legal.  The laws of man differ from religious beliefs.

I may not agree with the morality of it, I also don't agree with the morality of adultry, either, but it's not illegal. 

What is really annoying the pure %#$t out of me is the amount of hate being generated around this.  And no, it's not just the "conservatives".  This topic is bringing out the pure ugliness in everyone.  Just because I don't agree with it does not mean I should be bashed  because I do not agree with someone elses opinion.  The Commandment is Love Thy Neighbor...not Love Thy Neighbor until they disagree with you. 

A true Christian is one who accepts Christ into his/her heart as the Savior.  We are all sinners, but we must repent for our sins.  We shouldn't judge others for their beliefs or lives.  Just because we don't agree with it, we shouldn't judge or bash.  The hate that is stemming from this debate is astounding.  It's really saddening to see the hate stemming from this issue.  It's both sides...not just one.  Enough already. 

Leave the Biblical meanings up to the people who study the Bible for a living.  Leave the legality of it up to the law makers.  Our differing opinions are bringing out the pure ugliness out of everyone.

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