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Global Warming-True or a Tree-Hugger Agenda?

Posted by on Aug. 27, 2012 at 6:55 PM
  • 200 Replies

I was just watching CBS2 Evening News and saw that the polar caps have melted at an all time record high. My mom chimes in mockingly, "oooooooh must be global warmiiing!!! give me a break" I have no idea anything about the subject so I said, "Mom they have proof polar ice caps melting, whatever it is so what else could it be? Why is it giving you a problem to accept it may be true?" She said its the tree hugger agenda, swears its all a lie, and goes on and on.

So, I dont understand it, please give me opinions...do you believe in global warming? Why or Why not?

Thank you!

by on Aug. 27, 2012 at 6:55 PM
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Replies (1-10):
COn8tive
by Member on Aug. 27, 2012 at 7:00 PM
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We are destroying the planet and speeding up a natural process.
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mikiemom
by Ruby Member on Aug. 27, 2012 at 7:09 PM
3 moms liked this

and what exactly the agenda of the tree huggers again. Oh yea it's to save the planet from greedy human beings hellbent on destroying her. - Of course global warming is really sorry babe you mother has been misinformed and led down the path of destruction. She probably says dinosaurs aren't real while pumping fossil fuel into her SUV as well.

Mommy2BeAmy
by Silver Member on Aug. 27, 2012 at 7:10 PM
1 mom liked this

lol--nice answer! thank you!!

how do you stop global warming? or reduce it?

Quoting mikiemom:

and what exactly the agenda of the tree huggers again. Oh yea it's to save the planet from greedy human beings hellbent on destroying her. - Of course global warming is really sorry babe you mother has been misinformed and led down the path of destruction. She probably says dinosaurs aren't real while pumping fossil fuel into her SUV as well.


mikiemom
by Ruby Member on Aug. 27, 2012 at 7:17 PM
2 moms liked this

drastically reduce our collective carbon footprint. Stop relying on fossil fuels, spend money, time and energy researching renewable sources of energy, start recycling. What you can do personally, recycle, drive a vehicle with less emissions.

Quoting Mommy2BeAmy:

lol--nice answer! thank you!!

how do you stop global warming? or reduce it?

Quoting mikiemom:

and what exactly the agenda of the tree huggers again. Oh yea it's to save the planet from greedy human beings hellbent on destroying her. - Of course global warming is really sorry babe you mother has been misinformed and led down the path of destruction. She probably says dinosaurs aren't real while pumping fossil fuel into her SUV as well.

 


Billiebeth
by on Aug. 27, 2012 at 7:23 PM
Both
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Lizardannie1966
by on Aug. 27, 2012 at 7:26 PM

Global warming, from all that I can gather, is simply a part of Earth's natural cycle. Our damage to this planet has been like a match lighting a stick of dynamite, however and causing the cycle possibly to speed up.

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 27, 2012 at 9:02 PM
2 moms liked this
Quoting Mommy2BeAmy:

Do you believe in global warming?

I accept the scientific consensus that the current (last 200 years) change in the global climate has been 90% due to human activity rather than natural cycles, and that if the current trends in human activity continue this is going to cause increasingly significant harmful economic results.



Quoting Mommy2BeAmy:

Why or Why not?

Because of the evidence, which I have looked at in detail and understand.

Because I understand not only the science, but also scientists and the way science is carried out, and know just how unlikely the conspiracy theories are that suggest governments like Germany and Japan have been deluded into spending billions reducing their CO2 emissions because of a few greedy and fraudulent American scientists and politicians.

Because, just like with evolution, pretty much the ONLY country in the world where a significant number of people are in denial over the science is America.  Which, by coincidence, just happens to be the country that has produced the highest cumulative total contribution to CO2 emissions per person; and also the country where the same paid shills that were funded by the tobacco lobby to deny the smoking-to-cancer link have been paid extrordinary amount of money by big oil companies to publish 'research' denying the human-activity-to-global-climate-change link.

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 27, 2012 at 9:02 PM

1. There have been significant changes in the global climate over the last 200 years


(source: IPCC 4th report)


2. These changes have happened far faster than can be explained through natural cycles and fluctuations


We can use ice core data to look at how fast the natural cycle of ice ages moves.

Even at the fastest points, historically it takes thousands of years for the sort of changes to happen that, in modern times, we've now seen take place in mere hundreds of years.


3. These change are primarily due to human activity



This matches what we know about the timeline of changing human land usage, and the link is verified by isotope evidence (CO2 from burning fossil fuels contains a different mix of isotopes from the CO2 from sources such as decaying trees and plants).


4. These changes will have a net negative global economic impact

Most of the publicity goes to the rising sea level due to the change in global temperature.  But that's not the only change to the climate.  Changing the concentrations of greenhouse gasses in the world's atmosphere this fast has been a bit like putting the climate into a blender and hitting max power.  Not only are we getting more extreme and less predictable weather.  We're also getting long term localised changes in currents, leading to changes in rain and humidity patterns as well as temperature.  It is the speed of these changes that is the threat to biodiversity, and that means droughts and food shortages, with all the disease and human conflict those generally lead to.


5. This impact, were humanity not to modify its pattern of activity, would be so significant and negative that it is worth it (as a planet) spending significant amounts of money now to try to reduce the size of that impact

I'm no expert in economics, but the people who are (such as the staff at The Economist magasine) think it is, and the governments of large countries such as Britain and Germany (who don't financially gain by this, because they'll be net financial contributors in any treaty dealing with it) also agree.


6. In particular, we need to reduce our emission of greenhouse gasses such as carbon dioxide

It would be nice if there were technologies available to reduce the warming in other ways, but they're not yet mature enough for full scale use.

And it is definitely worth doing this by just increasing efficiency where possible, rather than by cutting down power usage.

But the changes need to be made now (well, actually they needed to have been made 10-20 years ago), and that means the tax on gas needs to be raised (ie a carbon tax).   Quite what the best or fairest way to spread the pain is, between the countries of the world, I couldn't say.  But something needs to be done, if we (as a planet) are to save money long term.  It is an investment in our children's future.



-------------------------------------------

157 = Space --> Atmosphere   ( 78 absorbed, 79 reflected)

184 = Space --> Surface      (161 absorbed, 23 reflected)

278 = Space <-- Atmosphere   (199 emitted,  79 reflected)

063 = Space <-- Surface      ( 40 emitted,  23 reflected)
-------------------------------------------

278 = Atmosphere --> Space   (199 emitted,  79 reflected)

333 = Atmosphere --> Surface (333 emitted)

157 = Atmosphere <-- Space   ( 78 absorbed, 79 reflected)

453 = Atmosphere <-- Surface (356 emitted,  97 convected)

-------------------------------------------

063 = Surface --> Space      ( 40 emitted,  23 reflected)

453 = Surface --> Atmosphere (356 emitted,  97 convected)

184 = Surface <-- Space      (161 absorbed, 23 reflected)

333 = Surface <-- Atmosphere (333 emitted)

-------------------------------------------

(All figures are in watts per square meter)

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 27, 2012 at 9:02 PM

The Earth's climate changes naturally

Yes it does, but not this fast.  Human activity is responsible for more than 90% of the speed of change that we've seen over the last 200 years.  And we can prove this.


It is all a fraud.  The scientists were paid to lie by Al Gore, who's made billions off the scam.

This is tin foil hat stuff, on par with faked moon landings.  Gore has made money from investing in companies working to combat Global Climate Change, but he was an advocate of green causes long before he put his money where his mouth was.  And it certainly doesn't explain why hard headed countries with their own scientists, such as Germany and Japan, have invested heavily in trying to reduce the Carbon Dioxide output of their economies.


The Earth isn't warming.  Last winter was freezing!

Weather isn't the same as climate.  It may have been cold near you, but it was hot elsewhere.  Raising the global average doesn't mean the temperature everywhere goes up by the same amount.  Some places will go up more than the average.  Some will go up less.  Some will even decrease in temperature.  That's what "average" means.  One of the reasons "Global Climate Change" is preferred to "Global Warming" is that warming isn't the only change that's happening.  The weather patterns are also shifting, and we're seeing more unseasonal weather, both extremely hot and extremely cold, both wetter and dryer than average (in different places).


I don't care.  Humanity is so insignificant that, even if we did cause it, we can't undo the change now.  I'm not going to give up my SUV.  God will protect me - he promised he won't drown humanity.

Don't be defeatist.  What humans did we can undo, but it will take time.  God didn't promise we wouldn't suffer massive economic hardship from flood and droughts, just that humanity won't get mostly killed off by floods.  And he did ask us to be stewards, which means we have a duty to look after the other creatures on the planet.


The Earth used to be hotter, so nothing bad is going to happen.

Yes, the Earth was hotter, a long long time ago.  However, at the height of that period, the sea was also 40 feet higher than it is now.  Saying "nothing bad is going to happen" ignore the damage that is caused by how fast the change takes place.  If the sea rises that much slowly over tens of thousands of years, species have time to migrate and adapt.  And it also ignores the problems caused by the shifting patterns.


Greenland, Rome or the European Warm Period prove the Earth was hotter than it currently is, much more recently than that.

No they don't.  Global Climate Change looks at the average climate of the whole world, sea as well as land.  Mere local variations in temperature can be caused by ocean current changes, and are not necessarily a good guide to what's happening in the rest of the world.


The scientists have not taken into account sulphur particles, clouds, volcanos, under ocean methane, cows, soot on snow, or sun spots.

Yes they have.  In fact all the models are available online at the website:
so if you don't believe me, go check them out.



Scientists know nothing, in the 1970s they thought the Earth was cooling.

When you subtract two big numbers, such as 4012 - 3987, just a 10% change in either big number can turn the answer from being a positive into being a negative.  The radiative forcing components, both positive and negative, have to all be added together, which meant that until we had narrowed each one down quite precisely, the direction of the total answer was still in doubt.

However, now we have satellites in orbit around the Earth, measuring directly how much heat is being radiated out from the Earth, which gives us a very good handle on whether there's a net imbalance.
Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Aug. 27, 2012 at 9:02 PM
1 mom liked this

Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis

Errata

Contents

Summary
Foreword
Preface
Summary for Policymakers
Technical Summary

1 The Climate System: an Overview
2 Observed Climate Variability and Change
3 The Carbon Cycle and Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
4 Atmospheric Chemistry and Greenhouse Gases
5 Aerosols, their Direct and Indirect Effects
6 Radiative Forcing of Climate Change
7 Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks
8 Model Evaluation
9 Projections of Future Climate Change
10 Regional Climate Information - Evaluation and Projections
11 Changes in Sea Level
12 Detection of Climate Change and Attribution of Causes
13 Climate Scenario Development
14 Advancing Our Understanding


==============================================

there's a CafeMom group dedicated to the issue, which you can scan for arguments:

http://www.cafemom.com/group/5615


for external soures, if you are on the pro side, check out:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://www.grist.org/article/series/skeptics

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php


neutral resources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

http://www.ipcc.ch/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/hi/climate


anti resources:

http://www.climategate.com/

http://climatescam.org/

http://www.globalclimatescam.com/


==============================================

Some previous threads from CafeMom:

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/16329650/Global_Warming_wipes_out_all_polar_bears_except_the_increasing_number_of_them

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/16991288/Global_Warming_by_the_Numbers

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/15888890/Global_What_do_we_call_it_NOW

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/14611974/Global_Climate_Change

http://www.cafemom.com/group/51300/forums/read/15038209/Anthropocentric_Global_Climate_Change

http://www.cafemom.com/group/93341/forums/read/11057670/Global_Climate_Change

http://www.cafemom.com/group/34838/forums/read/13943709/Debate_hors_bring_your_A_game_Climate_Change

http://www.cafemom.com/group/34838/forums/read/11219016/Still_believe_in_Man_made_Global_wraming

http://www.cafemom.com/group/34838/forums/read/8248582/Scientists_warn_of_irreversible_climate_shifts

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/15219356/Climate_study_funded_in_part_by_conservative_group_confirms_global_warming

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/15336580/A_Thread_Just_For_The_Deniers

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/15059406/Why_Does_The_global_Warming_Debate_Provoke_So_Much_Anger

http://www.cafemom.com/group/36965/forums/read/8076359/Climate_Is_Global_Warming_a_Big_Scam

http://www.cafemom.com/group/34838/forums/read/13076560/ok_Clair_this_is_my_last_week_b4_school_so_Global_Warming_Go_LOL

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/15440538/Study_Finds_Limited_Sensitivity_of_Climate_to_CO2

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/12461406/Top_scientist_resigns_from_post_admits_Global_Warming_is_a_scam

http://www.cafemom.com/group/416/forums/read/10766432/Who_is_against_the_Global_Warming_theory

http://www.cafemom.com/group/99198/forums/read/15336575/How_America_Destroyed_The_World

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