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Romney: All of Obama's Supporters Want Government Handouts

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Romney: All of Obama's Supporters Want Government Handouts

At a closed fundraiser earlier this year, the GOP nominee dismissed half the country as people who pay no income tax and believe they are victims.

Updated: September 17, 2012 | 6:18 p.m. 
September 17, 2012 | 5:26 p.m.


At a closed-door fundraiser earlier this year, Mitt Romney dismissed all of President Obama’s supporters as people who are dependent on government, pay no income tax, and believe they are victims.

Mother Jones, a liberal-leaning online publication, obtained video and audio from the fundraiser but would not disclose the date or location of the event to protect the confidentiality of its source.

In the video, Romney can be heard saying: “There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, here are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it.”

“And they will vote for this president no matter what.... These are people who pay no income tax,” Romney said. "[M]y job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

Romney also joked that "it would be helpful" to his election prospects if his father, who was born in Mexico, had been born to Mexican instead of American parents.

The video revealed Romney was much more candid and expansive in expressing his views when addressing big contributors than the campaign talking points he tends to stick to in public appearance and interviews.

Democrats quickly incorporated the video into their messaging. "It's shocking that a candidate for president of the United States would go behind closed doors and declare to a group of wealthy donors that half the American people  view themselves as ‘victims,’ entitled to handouts, and are unwilling to take ‘personal responsibility’ for their lives. It’s hard to serve as president for all Americans when you’ve disdainfully written off half the nation,” Obama campaign manager Jim Messina said in a statement.

It is the second instance of a video clip being leaked from a fundraiser; the first showed Romney talking about conditions in a Chinese factory.

Obama had his own problems in the 2008 campaign with a video secretly shot by a Huffington Post citizen-reporter at a closed fundraiser. That's how the world found out he had said rural voters beset by economic insecurity were "clinging" to guns and religion.

A new conservative talking point this year is that 51 percent of Americans pay no federal income tax. They do, however, pay sales, property, Social Security, and Medicare taxes, among others.

Want to stay ahead of the curve? Sign up for National Journal’s AM & PM Must Reads. News and analysis to ensure you don’t miss a thing.


by on Sep. 17, 2012 at 6:38 PM
Replies (471-479):
brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Sep. 20, 2012 at 1:38 PM

I just rechecked. The first link didn't take me to an article. It takes me to a page labled: Obama Stimlus Program Sent Jobs Abroad, GOP Says. However, there is no article attached to it. When I click the video tab it takes me to a Video with the same headline. The second link did lead to an article. 

But regardless-My counter arguments to them are still the same.

Trying to fix our Country and other companies taking advantage of the Stimulus and then Outsourcing is not the same as actively trying to send Jobs Oversea and praising Chinese sweat shops.

And the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics appear to show that the stimulus plan worked.

I think you may be confused. I didn't post a video. I posted 2 articles boot one. One was the article about the 3 overseas programs. The other was a gravy checker where you will find the quote from the press conference after the story originally broke. You must be confused if you only red 1 article and got a video instead of something "written" .

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Before I respond to this. I want to say I appreciate you sticking to the debate and not slinging mud. It makes the debate much more fun, I learn more, and probably makes it easier for people reading our replies to walk away more knowledgeable about both sides.

I don't think it was a lack of factories but a lack of factories with the ability to build it-Or they could be out right lying (Which seems to be what you are implying) but either way it was not President Obama's choice.

I have never seen President Obama admit to outsourcing. And if he did admit that you should have linked that source before the article where the outsourcing takes place After they got the money and the video of the GOP talking about out foreign companies took stimulus money but had factories/jobs in the US and how some US Jobs took stimulus money and then they used it to outsource.

Again-Companies taking money from the Stimulus and then using it to outsource is not the same as President Obama saying, "Here is some money go Outsource!".

We were in a recession when President Obama came in.


I would like to point out the Stimulus started in February 2009. How can you look at the numbers and say it failed?

And again-They didn't do the exact same thing. Mitt Romney was actively investing in Companies outsourcing to China. Romney even praised the Chinese workshop.

President Obama put out a stimulus to help the economy. Some US Companies did take the money and then decided to Outsource.

Those are not remotely the same. I am going to exaggerate for a bit to prove the point.

Let's say there are two people with a lot of guns (Money is used in the real example).
One person starts giving guns to Criminals instead of Citizens with the intent to give it to the Criminals (This is Romney actively investing in companies he knows will be Outsourcing).
The other person tries to set up a Gunshop so legal citizens can have guns. But some of those citizens get the guns and then sell them to criminals (This is President Obama trying to boost the economy but some people using it for out sourcing instead).

Sure-Someone might try to say both people are the same. But it's not. One person had a clear intent when doing it. The other person was trying to help and people decided to do something else with it.

President Obama was not trying to send jobs over seas. That was not his intent. And from the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics it seems pretty clear that it worked and helped.

Mit Romney had the intent to send jobs overseas and is even heard praising the chinese workshops.


Quoting AMBG825:

So you mean to tell everyone that with all the factories that are closed down and sitting empty there are no factories to be found in the U.S.?



And while I don't think Obama is the brightest man on the planet, I still think he is smarter than you and will take his word when he admitted that 2.83 billion dollars of taxpayer money was used to outsource jobs to other countries.



The stimulus that was supposed to boost the economy failed and yet he intends to do another stimulus?????? So another trillion dollars to create a few hundred jobs. That's intelligent. Not really.



The double standard comes from 2 people doing the exact same thing and credit only being given to one. Credit that isn't due him either







Quoting brookiecookie87:

The article you did link talked about how a Car Company RECIEVED the money then couldn't find a factory that could build their car and THEN outsourced to Finland.

The Video you linked to was the GOP Talking about other Companies that did something of the same nature. Seeing that it was from teh GOP I decided to look into myself and found what I figured would come up.

Unlike Romney who was looking to send Jobs Over Seas President Obama offered a Stimulus to boost our economy. There are foreign companies that took some money from the Stimulus but those companies had factories, firms, businesses here. The same way that some businesses here would take the money but have factories,  firms, businesses over seas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obama-and-outsourcing-a-guide-to-the-gops-charges/2012/07/11/gJQA1LBIeW_blog.html

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between Romney who was seeking to send jobs over seas and is found praising a Chinese Workshop that he was looking into.

And President Obama who was trying to Boost the Economy.

If you believe Americans taking money meant to boost our Economy and then outsourcing or Foreing Countries that have factories here, and jobs here is the same as someone who is trying to send jobs over seas.

That's not even a double standard. That is trying to manupilate data/information to fit your desires.



Quoting AMBG825:

 What a shocker you didn't red the links provided. Or have you actually listened to the Obama staff when they sayd that they used stimulus money (approved by Obama BTW) to fund foreign companies. It also comes as no shock that the Obama administration, when asked about sayd monies stated that they did so in the HOPES they would bring jobs to the U.S. but there was never any way for them to determine if that money would have ever provided jobs here.



 



Companies outsourcing jobs to other countries is not uncommon. It's actually a part of business around the Globe. Ironically, GM and Chrysler both outsource more jobs overseas than they do in the U.S. Obama's claim that GM is now the #1 auto company ...if you take away autos manufactured and sold overseas, they're actually at the bottom of the list. As a matter of fact, Toyota (you know a "foreign" company) gives more jobs to Americans than GM does. Honda (another "foreign" company) provides more American jobs than Chrysler. Matter of fact, Toyota and Honda both beat GM in Car & Driver's list of best American made vehicles. 5 of the top 10 "American made" cars were made by Toyota and Honda. One can even argue that GM is no longer an American owned company considering Fiat (an Italian company) owns the controlling shares of GM. And that is just the auto industry (the industry we spent billions of tax dollars on)



 



So anyone who has ever had a basic economics class knows that companies sending jobs overseas and overseas companies sending jobs to the U.S., is not all that uncommon nor is it even eyebrow raising. It's a part of global trading. However, our government sending money overseas to create jobs when they are desperately needed here in the U.S. is something the citizens of this country should be outraged over.



 



And had you red the links you migh have seen where that was sayd. The entity of the Obama crowd seems to have a few double standards.



Quoting brookiecookie87:



Are you implying that actively investing in Companies that plan to Outsource Jobs and openly praising Chinese sweatshops is the same as trying to run the country and companies deciding to outsource on their own?

I don't know if you read/watched either of the links you gave. But neither of them show President Obama out sourcing jobs. It does show instances where companies took advantage of the Stimulus and then outsourced jobs.

That hardly seems the same as actively investing in companies knowing you are sending jobs over seas.



Quoting AMBG825:

So your argument is that it is not okay for a private company to spend private money to send jobs overseas but that using American tax dollars to outsource jobs is just hunky dory?

I'm not sure I would agree with that point of view.




Quoting brookiecookie87:



Quoting AMBG825:



Quoting brookiecookie87:



Is your argument for Mitt Romney really, "He hasn't been the President, yet"?

I was going to counter your claims with sources but then I saw, "Obama is the one that has guided us to disaster" then I realized the time and effort would be wasted because I doubt anything would change your stance.

Romney has not been in charge. Yet, he has sent Jobs Over Seas already. Before President Obama became President he had sent 0 jobs to Chinese workers. Romney has already praised a Chinese Sweat Shop. But this is completely off topic. I'll go back on topic/

In red you sayd President Obama has professors, and lower class. Then you say he has Union workers (Middle class?) and Occupy Crowd (College, College-graduates, and middle class). So you are saying President Obama has nearly the entity of America minus Upper-Middle class, and the extremely wealthy?


I would disagree. A LOT of Republicans fall in that crowd. But I imagine Mitt Romney agrees with you because he throws all those Republicans under the Bus with his 47% remark. Unless he understands they are Republicans but them not paying enough is enough for him to write them off and not care about them either.




 The only part of this that even remotely made sense was your claim Obama didn't sent jobs overseas. Au Contraire



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303292204577519181071135146.html




http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875



Kind of looks like they are both guilty of outsourcing jobs.



You must mean the only part you understand. And the one part you claim to understand-You don't.

Both those articles you listed are AFTER Obama became President. BillieJean was arguing that Romney hasn't wrecked our economy. I was pointing out he isn't President. And also pointing out before Obama became President he had not sent jobs over sea while on the other hand Romney already has sent jobs over seas and he hasn't been President yet.






 




Join us on the 99% Moms group!
The Ninety-Nine Percent Moms   

If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

LadyByrdNest
by on Sep. 20, 2012 at 1:40 PM


Quoting Carpy:

I didn't realize you were that wealthy.

Quoting mikiemom:

That mother fucker can bite me. I pay more income taxes personal and business  than his millionaire ass because I don't fucking cheat on my taxes. Oh damn this is why I can't stand this arrogant fucker.


sidesplittinglaughter

MyJaidonreturns
by Bronze Member on Sep. 20, 2012 at 1:43 PM
2 moms liked this
Thanks for the handouts, Mr. President. We are happily parlaying on the governments dime!!

While my husband is deployed to Afganistan.

F$&k you, Romney.

AMBG825
by on Sep. 20, 2012 at 2:11 PM
I don't know how you didn't red the admission. It was clearly sayd that there was no way for Obama to have known that foreign companies would not have created foreign jobs.

I haven't gotten around to the sweat shop comment. I have heard out but haven't actually looked into it so I have no comment about out. As for the outsourced jobs, if the businesses that had jobs moved overseas were getting ready to close, they weren't going to bring jobs with them after they shut their doors. So far, all the businesses I've red about were businesses in which the jobs were going to be lost anyway. If you are going to hold those against Romney then the 200,000 jobs cut by GM that the bailout was supposed to prevent but didn't should be held against Obama. And you need to hold the whole GM and Chrysler bailout as well since both off those businesses outsource more than they manufacture here. Why aren't you demanding that Obama make GM and Chrysler bring those outsourced jobs back to the U.S. it's feasible for Obama tho make that demand since the government owns a God chunk of their stock. Why are most of their vehicles and parts made overseas if we are so concerned about American jobs?

And those job numbers you are referring to as inflated. We saw this once already under the Obama stimulus. He created a bunch of minimum wage, temporary jobs in order to boost the employment numbers. 6 months later we saw those numbers jump up again. We need long term, sustainable jobs. More temporary minimum wage jobs is not going to bring our numbers up where they need to be.

And knowingly giving money to failing companies ours irresponsible. Obama is more like Bernie Madoff giving money tip a handful of people and then ripping off the majority of those giving him the money to off his rich friends.


Quoting brookiecookie87:

I just rechecked. The first link didn't take me to an article. It takes me to a page labled: Obama Stimlus Program Sent Jobs Abroad, GOP Says. However, there is no article attached to it. When I click the video tab it takes me to a Video with the same headline. The second link did lead to an article.� 

But regardless-My counter arguments to them are still the same.

Trying to fix our Country and other companies taking advantage of the Stimulus and then Outsourcing is not the same as actively trying to send Jobs Oversea and praising Chinese sweat shops.

And the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics appear to show that the stimulus plan worked.

I think you may be confused. I didn't post a video. I posted 2 articles boot one. One was the article about the 3 overseas programs. The other was a gravy checker where you will find the quote from the press conference after the story originally broke. You must be confused if you only red 1 article and got a video instead of something "written" .



Quoting brookiecookie87:

Before I respond to this. I want to say I appreciate you sticking to the debate and not slinging mud. It makes the debate much more fun, I learn more, and probably makes it easier for people reading our replies to walk away more knowledgeable about both sides.

I don't think it was a lack of factories but a lack of factories with the ability to build it-Or they could be out right lying (Which seems to be what you are implying) but either way it was not President Obama's choice.

I have never seen President Obama admit to outsourcing. And if he did admit that you should have linked that source before the article where the outsourcing takes place After they got the money and the video of the GOP talking about out foreign companies took stimulus money but had factories/jobs in the US and how some US Jobs took stimulus money and then they used it to outsource.

Again-Companies taking money from the Stimulus and then using it to outsource is not the same as President Obama saying, "Here is some money go Outsource!".

We were in a recession when President Obama came in.


I would like to point out the Stimulus started in February 2009. How can you look at the numbers and say it failed?

And again-They didn't do the exact same thing. Mitt Romney was actively investing in Companies outsourcing to China. Romney even praised the Chinese workshop.

President Obama put out a stimulus to help the economy. Some US Companies did take the money and then decided to Outsource.

Those are not remotely the same. I am going to exaggerate for a bit to prove the point.

Let's say there are two people with a lot of guns (Money is used in the real example).
One person starts giving guns to Criminals instead of Citizens with the intent to give it to the Criminals (This is Romney actively investing in companies he knows will be Outsourcing).
The other person tries to set up a Gunshop so legal citizens can have guns. But some of those citizens get the guns and then sell them to criminals (This is President Obama trying to boost the economy but some people using it for out sourcing instead).

Sure-Someone might try to say both people are the same. But it's not. One person had a clear intent when doing it. The other person was trying to help and people decided to do something else with it.

President Obama was not trying to send jobs over seas. That was not his intent. And from the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics it seems pretty clear that it worked and helped.

Mit Romney had the intent to send jobs overseas and is even heard praising the chinese workshops.



Quoting AMBG825:

So you mean to tell everyone that with all the factories that are closed down and sitting empty there are no factories to be found in the U.S.?





And while I don't think Obama is the brightest man on the planet, I still think he is smarter than you and will take his word when he admitted that 2.83 billion dollars of taxpayer money was used to outsource jobs to other countries.





The stimulus that was supposed to boost the economy failed and yet he intends to do another stimulus?????? So another trillion dollars to create a few hundred jobs. That's intelligent. Not really.





The double standard comes from 2 people doing the exact same thing and credit only being given to one. Credit that isn't due him either











Quoting brookiecookie87:

The article you did link talked about how a Car Company RECIEVED the money then couldn't find a factory that could build their car and THEN outsourced to Finland.

The Video you linked to was the GOP Talking about other Companies that did something of the same nature. Seeing that it was from teh GOP I decided to look into myself and found what I figured would come up.

Unlike Romney who was looking to send Jobs Over Seas President Obama offered a Stimulus to boost our economy. There are foreign companies that took some money from the Stimulus but those companies had factories, firms, businesses here. The same way that some businesses here would take the money but have factories,�  firms, businesses over seas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obama-and-outsourcing-a-guide-to-the-gops-charges/2012/07/11/gJQA1LBIeW_blog.html

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between Romney who was seeking to send jobs over seas and is found praising a Chinese Workshop that he was looking into.

And President Obama who was trying to Boost the Economy.

If you believe Americans taking money meant to boost our Economy and then outsourcing or Foreing Countries that have factories here, and jobs here is the same as someone who is trying to send jobs over seas.

That's not even a double standard. That is trying to manupilate data/information to fit your desires.




Quoting AMBG825:

� What a shocker you didn't red the links provided. Or have you actually listened to the Obama staff when they sayd that they used stimulus money (approved by Obama BTW) to fund foreign companies. It also comes as no shock that the Obama administration, when asked about sayd monies stated that they did so in the HOPES they would bring jobs to the U.S. but there was never any way for them to determine if that money would have ever provided jobs here.




� 




Companies outsourcing jobs to other countries is not uncommon. It's actually a part of business around the Globe. Ironically, GM and Chrysler both outsource more jobs overseas than they do in the U.S. Obama's claim that GM is now the #1 auto company ...if you take away autos manufactured and sold overseas, they're actually at the bottom of the list. As a matter of fact, Toyota (you know a "foreign" company) gives more jobs to Americans than GM does. Honda (another "foreign" company) provides more American jobs than Chrysler. Matter of fact, Toyota and Honda both beat GM in Car & Driver's list of best American made vehicles. 5 of the top 10 "American made" cars were made by Toyota and Honda. One can even argue that GM is no longer an American owned company considering Fiat (an Italian company) owns the controlling shares of GM. And that is just the auto industry (the industry we spent billions of tax dollars on)




� 




So anyone who has ever had a basic economics class knows that companies sending jobs overseas and overseas companies sending jobs to the U.S., is not all that uncommon nor is it even eyebrow raising. It's a part of global trading. However, our government sending money overseas to create jobs when they are desperately needed here in the U.S. is something the citizens of this country should be outraged over.




� 




And had you red the links you migh have seen where that was sayd. The entity of the Obama crowd seems to have a few double standards.




Quoting brookiecookie87:




Are you implying that actively investing in Companies that plan to Outsource Jobs and openly praising Chinese sweatshops is the same as trying to run the country and companies deciding to outsource on their own?

I don't know if you read/watched either of the links you gave. But neither of them show President Obama out sourcing jobs. It does show instances where companies took advantage of the Stimulus and then outsourced jobs.

That hardly seems the same as actively investing in companies knowing you are sending jobs over seas.




Quoting AMBG825:

So your argument is that it is not okay for a private company to spend private money to send jobs overseas but that using American tax dollars to outsource jobs is just hunky dory?

I'm not sure I would agree with that point of view.





Quoting brookiecookie87:




Quoting AMBG825:




Quoting brookiecookie87:




Is your argument for Mitt Romney really, "He hasn't been the President, yet"?

I was going to counter your claims with sources but then I saw, "Obama is the one that has guided us to disaster" then I realized the time and effort would be wasted because I doubt anything would change your stance.

Romney has not been in charge. Yet, he has sent Jobs Over Seas already. Before President Obama became President he had sent 0 jobs to Chinese workers. Romney has already praised a Chinese Sweat Shop. But this is completely off topic. I'll go back on topic/

In red you sayd President Obama has professors, and lower class. Then you say he has Union workers (Middle class?) and Occupy Crowd (College, College-graduates, and middle class). So you are saying President Obama has nearly the entity of America minus Upper-Middle class, and the extremely wealthy?


I would disagree. A LOT of Republicans fall in that crowd. But I imagine Mitt Romney agrees with you because he throws all those Republicans under the Bus with his 47% remark. Unless he understands they are Republicans but them not paying enough is enough for him to write them off and not care about them either.





� The only part of this that even remotely made sense was your claim Obama didn't sent jobs overseas. Au Contraire




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303292204577519181071135146.html





http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875




Kind of looks like they are both guilty of outsourcing jobs.




You must mean the only part you understand. And the one part you claim to understand-You don't.

Both those articles you listed are AFTER Obama became President. BillieJean was arguing that Romney hasn't wrecked our economy. I was pointing out he isn't President. And also pointing out before Obama became President he had not sent jobs over sea while on the other hand Romney already has sent jobs over seas and he hasn't been President yet.








� 




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brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Sep. 20, 2012 at 2:27 PM

Except that their are Foreign Companies that have jobs here in America. I imagine someone who is jobless will take a job where they can get it for however long they can keep it. Either way saying it is a failure seems a far fetch from the truth since it worked.

It seems far better than letting the job lost to continue. And perhaps with his next Stimilus package he will learn from his previous one and curb some of the problems.

Mitt Romney admits buying Chinese sweatshop while at Bain. 20,000 young girls. 12 girls per room. 120 girls per bathroom. Huge fences with guard towers.


Quote:

"95% of life is set up for you if you were born in this country. And, I remember going to ah, uh, sorry just to bore you with stories.

When I was back in my private equity days, we went to China to buy a factory there. It employed about 20,000 people. And they were almost all young women between the ages of about 18 and 22 or 23. They were saving for potentially becoming married.

And they work in these huge factories, they made various uh, small appliances. And uh, as we were walking through this facility, seeing them work, the number of hours they worked per day, the pitance they earned, living in dormitories with uh, with little bathrooms at the end of maybe 10, 10 room, rooms. And the rooms they have 12 girls per room.

Three bunk beds on top of each other. You've seen, you've seen them? (Oh...yeah, yeah!) And, and, and around this factory was a fence, a huge fence with barbed wire and guard towers. And, and, we said gosh! I can't believe that you, you know, keep these girls in! They said, no, no, no. This is to keep other people from coming in.

Because people want so badly to come work in this factory that we have to keep them out. Or they will just come in here and start working and, and try and get compensated. So we, this is to keep people out. And they said, actually Chinese New Year as the girls go home, sometimes they decide they've saved enough money and they don't come back to the factory.

And he said, so, on the weekend after Chinese New Year there will be a line of people hundreds long, outside the factory, hoping that some girls haven't come back. And they can come to the factory. And, and so as we were experiencing this for the first time, going to see a factory like this in China some years ago.

The Bain Partner I was with turned to me and said, you know, 95% of life is settled if you are born in America. This is uh, this is an amazing land and what we have is unique and fortunately it is so special we are sharing it with the world."

-Mitt Romney-

That is what Mitt Romney is heard saying on the video.

I believe you already know that if I could I would push to bring jobs back over here. But again you keep making points that President Obama did something that lead to jobs going over seas but not as a direct result of his motives and intentions.

The whole point I have been making this entire time is Mitt Romney is not President and he has already pushed jobs overseas. Not indirectly but directly. He is praising Chinese workshops. That doesn't sound like the type of person that has any plans to stop it and sway people not to do it. That sounds like someone who has done it, given money to people who plan to do it, and as a President might continue that habit.

Unless he plans to run the Country differently than he ran his business. But if that is the case-Perhaps he should stop using his Business Experience as a selling point.

Quoting AMBG825:

I don't know how you didn't red the admission. It was clearly sayd that there was no way for Obama to have known that foreign companies would not have created foreign jobs.

I haven't gotten around to the sweat shop comment. I have heard out but haven't actually looked into it so I have no comment about out. As for the outsourced jobs, if the businesses that had jobs moved overseas were getting ready to close, they weren't going to bring jobs with them after they shut their doors. So far, all the businesses I've red about were businesses in which the jobs were going to be lost anyway. If you are going to hold those against Romney then the 200,000 jobs cut by GM that the bailout was supposed to prevent but didn't should be held against Obama. And you need to hold the whole GM sand Chrysler bailout as well since both off those businesses outsource more than they manufacture here. Why aren't you demanding that Obama make GM and Chrysler bring those outsourced jobs back to the U.S. it's feasible for Obama tho make that demand since the government owns a God chunk of their stock. Why are most of their vehicles and parts made overseas if we are so concerned about American jobs?

And those john numbers you are referring to as inflated. We saw this once already under the Obama stimulus. He created a bunch pic minimum wage, temporary jobs in order tip boost the employment numbers. 6 months later we saw those numbers jump up again. We need long term, sustainable jobs. More temporary minimum wage jobs is hl not going to bring our numbers up where they need to be.

And knowingly giving money to failing companies ours irresponsible. Obama is more like Bernie Madoff giving money tip a handful of people and then ripping off the majority of those giving him the money to off his rich friends.
Quoting brookiecookie87:

I just rechecked. The first link didn't take me to an article. It takes me to a page labled: Obama Stimlus Program Sent Jobs Abroad, GOP Says. However, there is no article attached to it. When I click the video tab it takes me to a Video with the same headline. The second link did lead to an article. 

But regardless-My counter arguments to them are still the same.

Trying to fix our Country and other companies taking advantage of the Stimulus and then Outsourcing is not the same as actively trying to send Jobs Oversea and praising Chinese sweat shops.

And the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics appear to show that the stimulus plan worked.

I think you may be confused. I didn't post a video. I posted 2 articles boot one. One was the article about the 3 overseas programs. The other was a gravy checker where you will find the quote from the press conference after the story originally broke. You must be confused if you only red 1 article and got a video instead of something "written" .



Quoting brookiecookie87:

Before I respond to this. I want to say I appreciate you sticking to the debate and not slinging mud. It makes the debate much more fun, I learn more, and probably makes it easier for people reading our replies to walk away more knowledgeable about both sides.

I don't think it was a lack of factories but a lack of factories with the ability to build it-Or they could be out right lying (Which seems to be what you are implying) but either way it was not President Obama's choice.

I have never seen President Obama admit to outsourcing. And if he did admit that you should have linked that source before the article where the outsourcing takes place After they got the money and the video of the GOP talking about out foreign companies took stimulus money but had factories/jobs in the US and how some US Jobs took stimulus money and then they used it to outsource.

Again-Companies taking money from the Stimulus and then using it to outsource is not the same as President Obama saying, "Here is some money go Outsource!".

We were in a recession when President Obama came in.


I would like to point out the Stimulus started in February 2009. How can you look at the numbers and say it failed?

And again-They didn't do the exact same thing. Mitt Romney was actively investing in Companies outsourcing to China. Romney even praised the Chinese workshop.

President Obama put out a stimulus to help the economy. Some US Companies did take the money and then decided to Outsource.

Those are not remotely the same. I am going to exaggerate for a bit to prove the point.

Let's say there are two people with a lot of guns (Money is used in the real example).
One person starts giving guns to Criminals instead of Citizens with the intent to give it to the Criminals (This is Romney actively investing in companies he knows will be Outsourcing).
The other person tries to set up a Gunshop so legal citizens can have guns. But some of those citizens get the guns and then sell them to criminals (This is President Obama trying to boost the economy but some people using it for out sourcing instead).

Sure-Someone might try to say both people are the same. But it's not. One person had a clear intent when doing it. The other person was trying to help and people decided to do something else with it.

President Obama was not trying to send jobs over seas. That was not his intent. And from the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics it seems pretty clear that it worked and helped.

Mit Romney had the intent to send jobs overseas and is even heard praising the chinese workshops.



Quoting AMBG825:

So you mean to tell everyone that with all the factories that are closed down and sitting empty there are no factories to be found in the U.S.?





And while I don't think Obama is the brightest man on the planet, I still think he is smarter than you and will take his word when he admitted that 2.83 billion dollars of taxpayer money was used to outsource jobs to other countries.





The stimulus that was supposed to boost the economy failed and yet he intends to do another stimulus?????? So another trillion dollars to create a few hundred jobs. That's intelligent. Not really.





The double standard comes from 2 people doing the exact same thing and credit only being given to one. Credit that isn't due him either











Quoting brookiecookie87:

The article you did link talked about how a Car Company RECIEVED the money then couldn't find a factory that could build their car and THEN outsourced to Finland.

The Video you linked to was the GOP Talking about other Companies that did something of the same nature. Seeing that it was from teh GOP I decided to look into myself and found what I figured would come up.

Unlike Romney who was looking to send Jobs Over Seas President Obama offered a Stimulus to boost our economy. There are foreign companies that took some money from the Stimulus but those companies had factories, firms, businesses here. The same way that some businesses here would take the money but have factories,  firms, businesses over seas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obama-and-outsourcing-a-guide-to-the-gops-charges/2012/07/11/gJQA1LBIeW_blog.html

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between Romney who was seeking to send jobs over seas and is found praising a Chinese Workshop that he was looking into.

And President Obama who was trying to Boost the Economy.

If you believe Americans taking money meant to boost our Economy and then outsourcing or Foreing Countries that have factories here, and jobs here is the same as someone who is trying to send jobs over seas.

That's not even a double standard. That is trying to manupilate data/information to fit your desires.




Quoting AMBG825:

 What a shocker you didn't red the links provided. Or have you actually listened to the Obama staff when they sayd that they used stimulus money (approved by Obama BTW) to fund foreign companies. It also comes as no shock that the Obama administration, when asked about sayd monies stated that they did so in the HOPES they would bring jobs to the U.S. but there was never any way for them to determine if that money would have ever provided jobs here.




 




Companies outsourcing jobs to other countries is not uncommon. It's actually a part of business around the Globe. Ironically, GM and Chrysler both outsource more jobs overseas than they do in the U.S. Obama's claim that GM is now the #1 auto company ...if you take away autos manufactured and sold overseas, they're actually at the bottom of the list. As a matter of fact, Toyota (you know a "foreign" company) gives more jobs to Americans than GM does. Honda (another "foreign" company) provides more American jobs than Chrysler. Matter of fact, Toyota and Honda both beat GM in Car & Driver's list of best American made vehicles. 5 of the top 10 "American made" cars were made by Toyota and Honda. One can even argue that GM is no longer an American owned company considering Fiat (an Italian company) owns the controlling shares of GM. And that is just the auto industry (the industry we spent billions of tax dollars on)




 




So anyone who has ever had a basic economics class knows that companies sending jobs overseas and overseas companies sending jobs to the U.S., is not all that uncommon nor is it even eyebrow raising. It's a part of global trading. However, our government sending money overseas to create jobs when they are desperately needed here in the U.S. is something the citizens of this country should be outraged over.




 




And had you red the links you migh have seen where that was sayd. The entity of the Obama crowd seems to have a few double standards.




Quoting brookiecookie87:




Are you implying that actively investing in Companies that plan to Outsource Jobs and openly praising Chinese sweatshops is the same as trying to run the country and companies deciding to outsource on their own?

I don't know if you read/watched either of the links you gave. But neither of them show President Obama out sourcing jobs. It does show instances where companies took advantage of the Stimulus and then outsourced jobs.

That hardly seems the same as actively investing in companies knowing you are sending jobs over seas.




Quoting AMBG825:

So your argument is that it is not okay for a private company to spend private money to send jobs overseas but that using American tax dollars to outsource jobs is just hunky dory?

I'm not sure I would agree with that point of view.





Quoting brookiecookie87:




Quoting AMBG825:




Quoting brookiecookie87:




Is your argument for Mitt Romney really, "He hasn't been the President, yet"?

I was going to counter your claims with sources but then I saw, "Obama is the one that has guided us to disaster" then I realized the time and effort would be wasted because I doubt anything would change your stance.

Romney has not been in charge. Yet, he has sent Jobs Over Seas already. Before President Obama became President he had sent 0 jobs to Chinese workers. Romney has already praised a Chinese Sweat Shop. But this is completely off topic. I'll go back on topic/

In red you sayd President Obama has professors, and lower class. Then you say he has Union workers (Middle class?) and Occupy Crowd (College, College-graduates, and middle class). So you are saying President Obama has nearly the entity of America minus Upper-Middle class, and the extremely wealthy?


I would disagree. A LOT of Republicans fall in that crowd. But I imagine Mitt Romney agrees with you because he throws all those Republicans under the Bus with his 47% remark. Unless he understands they are Republicans but them not paying enough is enough for him to write them off and not care about them either.





 The only part of this that even remotely made sense was your claim Obama didn't sent jobs overseas. Au Contraire




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303292204577519181071135146.html





http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875




Kind of looks like they are both guilty of outsourcing jobs.




You must mean the only part you understand. And the one part you claim to understand-You don't.

Both those articles you listed are AFTER Obama became President. BillieJean was arguing that Romney hasn't wrecked our economy. I was pointing out he isn't President. And also pointing out before Obama became President he had not sent jobs over sea while on the other hand Romney already has sent jobs over seas and he hasn't been President yet.








 





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AMBG825
by on Sep. 20, 2012 at 5:23 PM

 So let me see if I understand. A temporary job, that will be gone in 6 months and you'll be out looking again, that pays almost nothing ....not even enough to live on is better than a long term job that pays close to a living wage? It would have been one thing to invest in companies that had hard core plans in place already, or even had begun, building here in the U.S. But that isn't what he did. It was given to companies that could not show even an interest in building here and they knew beforehand that they wouldn't be able to know if they did. That isn't a smart investment. Would you give your paycheck to someone without knowing if you'll ever see a return on it? If you answered yes, then there really isn't any further discussion that can be had.

 

As for Romney's job outsourcing, what you and Tweety both have agreed with is that he bought companies that were in bankruptcy and sent the jobs overseas to save them. I'll ask the question again. How many jobs is a company in bankruptcy going to create? If they are getting ready to close their doors, how are they going to create jobs? So what jobs were sent overseas?

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Except that their are Foreign Companies that have jobs here in America. I imagine someone who is jobless will take a job where they can get it for however long they can keep it. Either way saying it is a failure seems a far fetch from the truth since it worked.

It seems far better than letting the job lost to continue. And perhaps with his next Stimilus package he will learn from his previous one and curb some of the problems.

Mitt Romney admits buying Chinese sweatshop while at Bain. 20,000 young girls. 12 girls per room. 120 girls per bathroom. Huge fences with guard towers.


Quote:

"95% of life is set up for you if you were born in this country. And, I remember going to ah, uh, sorry just to bore you with stories.

When I was back in my private equity days, we went to China to buy a factory there. It employed about 20,000 people. And they were almost all young women between the ages of about 18 and 22 or 23. They were saving for potentially becoming married.

And they work in these huge factories, they made various uh, small appliances. And uh, as we were walking through this facility, seeing them work, the number of hours they worked per day, the pitance they earned, living in dormitories with uh, with little bathrooms at the end of maybe 10, 10 room, rooms. And the rooms they have 12 girls per room.

Three bunk beds on top of each other. You've seen, you've seen them? (Oh...yeah, yeah!) And, and, and around this factory was a fence, a huge fence with barbed wire and guard towers. And, and, we said gosh! I can't believe that you, you know, keep these girls in! They said, no, no, no. This is to keep other people from coming in.

Because people want so badly to come work in this factory that we have to keep them out. Or they will just come in here and start working and, and try and get compensated. So we, this is to keep people out. And they said, actually Chinese New Year as the girls go home, sometimes they decide they've saved enough money and they don't come back to the factory.

And he said, so, on the weekend after Chinese New Year there will be a line of people hundreds long, outside the factory, hoping that some girls haven't come back. And they can come to the factory. And, and so as we were experiencing this for the first time, going to see a factory like this in China some years ago.

The Bain Partner I was with turned to me and said, you know, 95% of life is settled if you are born in America. This is uh, this is an amazing land and what we have is unique and fortunately it is so special we are sharing it with the world."

-Mitt Romney-

That is what Mitt Romney is heard saying on the video.

I believe you already know that if I could I would push to bring jobs back over here. But again you keep making points that President Obama did something that lead to jobs going over seas but not as a direct result of his motives and intentions.

The whole point I have been making this entire time is Mitt Romney is not President and he has already pushed jobs overseas. Not indirectly but directly. He is praising Chinese workshops. That doesn't sound like the type of person that has any plans to stop it and sway people not to do it. That sounds like someone who has done it, given money to people who plan to do it, and as a President might continue that habit.

Unless he plans to run the Country differently than he ran his business. But if that is the case-Perhaps he should stop using his Business Experience as a selling point.

 

Quoting AMBG825:

I don't know how you didn't red the admission. It was clearly sayd that there was no way for Obama to have known that foreign companies would not have created foreign jobs.

I haven't gotten around to the sweat shop comment. I have heard out but haven't actually looked into it so I have no comment about out. As for the outsourced jobs, if the businesses that had jobs moved overseas were getting ready to close, they weren't going to bring jobs with them after they shut their doors. So far, all the businesses I've red about were businesses in which the jobs were going to be lost anyway. If you are going to hold those against Romney then the 200,000 jobs cut by GM that the bailout was supposed to prevent but didn't should be held against Obama. And you need to hold the whole GM sand Chrysler bailout as well since both off those businesses outsource more than they manufacture here. Why aren't you demanding that Obama make GM and Chrysler bring those outsourced jobs back to the U.S. it's feasible for Obama tho make that demand since the government owns a God chunk of their stock. Why are most of their vehicles and parts made overseas if we are so concerned about American jobs?

And those john numbers you are referring to as inflated. We saw this once already under the Obama stimulus. He created a bunch pic minimum wage, temporary jobs in order tip boost the employment numbers. 6 months later we saw those numbers jump up again. We need long term, sustainable jobs. More temporary minimum wage jobs is hl not going to bring our numbers up where they need to be.

And knowingly giving money to failing companies ours irresponsible. Obama is more like Bernie Madoff giving money tip a handful of people and then ripping off the majority of those giving him the money to off his rich friends.
Quoting brookiecookie87:

I just rechecked. The first link didn't take me to an article. It takes me to a page labled: Obama Stimlus Program Sent Jobs Abroad, GOP Says. However, there is no article attached to it. When I click the video tab it takes me to a Video with the same headline. The second link did lead to an article. 

But regardless-My counter arguments to them are still the same.

Trying to fix our Country and other companies taking advantage of the Stimulus and then Outsourcing is not the same as actively trying to send Jobs Oversea and praising Chinese sweat shops.

And the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics appear to show that the stimulus plan worked.

I think you may be confused. I didn't post a video. I posted 2 articles boot one. One was the article about the 3 overseas programs. The other was a gravy checker where you will find the quote from the press conference after the story originally broke. You must be confused if you only red 1 article and got a video instead of something "written" .



Quoting brookiecookie87:

Before I respond to this. I want to say I appreciate you sticking to the debate and not slinging mud. It makes the debate much more fun, I learn more, and probably makes it easier for people reading our replies to walk away more knowledgeable about both sides.

I don't think it was a lack of factories but a lack of factories with the ability to build it-Or they could be out right lying (Which seems to be what you are implying) but either way it was not President Obama's choice.

I have never seen President Obama admit to outsourcing. And if he did admit that you should have linked that source before the article where the outsourcing takes place After they got the money and the video of the GOP talking about out foreign companies took stimulus money but had factories/jobs in the US and how some US Jobs took stimulus money and then they used it to outsource.

Again-Companies taking money from the Stimulus and then using it to outsource is not the same as President Obama saying, "Here is some money go Outsource!".

We were in a recession when President Obama came in.


I would like to point out the Stimulus started in February 2009. How can you look at the numbers and say it failed?

And again-They didn't do the exact same thing. Mitt Romney was actively investing in Companies outsourcing to China. Romney even praised the Chinese workshop.

President Obama put out a stimulus to help the economy. Some US Companies did take the money and then decided to Outsource.

Those are not remotely the same. I am going to exaggerate for a bit to prove the point.

Let's say there are two people with a lot of guns (Money is used in the real example).
One person starts giving guns to Criminals instead of Citizens with the intent to give it to the Criminals (This is Romney actively investing in companies he knows will be Outsourcing).
The other person tries to set up a Gunshop so legal citizens can have guns. But some of those citizens get the guns and then sell them to criminals (This is President Obama trying to boost the economy but some people using it for out sourcing instead).

Sure-Someone might try to say both people are the same. But it's not. One person had a clear intent when doing it. The other person was trying to help and people decided to do something else with it.

President Obama was not trying to send jobs over seas. That was not his intent. And from the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics it seems pretty clear that it worked and helped.

Mit Romney had the intent to send jobs overseas and is even heard praising the chinese workshops.



Quoting AMBG825:

So you mean to tell everyone that with all the factories that are closed down and sitting empty there are no factories to be found in the U.S.?





And while I don't think Obama is the brightest man on the planet, I still think he is smarter than you and will take his word when he admitted that 2.83 billion dollars of taxpayer money was used to outsource jobs to other countries.





The stimulus that was supposed to boost the economy failed and yet he intends to do another stimulus?????? So another trillion dollars to create a few hundred jobs. That's intelligent. Not really.





The double standard comes from 2 people doing the exact same thing and credit only being given to one. Credit that isn't due him either











Quoting brookiecookie87:

The article you did link talked about how a Car Company RECIEVED the money then couldn't find a factory that could build their car and THEN outsourced to Finland.

The Video you linked to was the GOP Talking about other Companies that did something of the same nature. Seeing that it was from teh GOP I decided to look into myself and found what I figured would come up.

Unlike Romney who was looking to send Jobs Over Seas President Obama offered a Stimulus to boost our economy. There are foreign companies that took some money from the Stimulus but those companies had factories, firms, businesses here. The same way that some businesses here would take the money but have factories,  firms, businesses over seas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obama-and-outsourcing-a-guide-to-the-gops-charges/2012/07/11/gJQA1LBIeW_blog.html

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between Romney who was seeking to send jobs over seas and is found praising a Chinese Workshop that he was looking into.

And President Obama who was trying to Boost the Economy.

If you believe Americans taking money meant to boost our Economy and then outsourcing or Foreing Countries that have factories here, and jobs here is the same as someone who is trying to send jobs over seas.

That's not even a double standard. That is trying to manupilate data/information to fit your desires.




Quoting AMBG825:

 What a shocker you didn't red the links provided. Or have you actually listened to the Obama staff when they sayd that they used stimulus money (approved by Obama BTW) to fund foreign companies. It also comes as no shock that the Obama administration, when asked about sayd monies stated that they did so in the HOPES they would bring jobs to the U.S. but there was never any way for them to determine if that money would have ever provided jobs here.




 




Companies outsourcing jobs to other countries is not uncommon. It's actually a part of business around the Globe. Ironically, GM and Chrysler both outsource more jobs overseas than they do in the U.S. Obama's claim that GM is now the #1 auto company ...if you take away autos manufactured and sold overseas, they're actually at the bottom of the list. As a matter of fact, Toyota (you know a "foreign" company) gives more jobs to Americans than GM does. Honda (another "foreign" company) provides more American jobs than Chrysler. Matter of fact, Toyota and Honda both beat GM in Car & Driver's list of best American made vehicles. 5 of the top 10 "American made" cars were made by Toyota and Honda. One can even argue that GM is no longer an American owned company considering Fiat (an Italian company) owns the controlling shares of GM. And that is just the auto industry (the industry we spent billions of tax dollars on)




 




So anyone who has ever had a basic economics class knows that companies sending jobs overseas and overseas companies sending jobs to the U.S., is not all that uncommon nor is it even eyebrow raising. It's a part of global trading. However, our government sending money overseas to create jobs when they are desperately needed here in the U.S. is something the citizens of this country should be outraged over.




 




And had you red the links you migh have seen where that was sayd. The entity of the Obama crowd seems to have a few double standards.




Quoting brookiecookie87:




Are you implying that actively investing in Companies that plan to Outsource Jobs and openly praising Chinese sweatshops is the same as trying to run the country and companies deciding to outsource on their own?

I don't know if you read/watched either of the links you gave. But neither of them show President Obama out sourcing jobs. It does show instances where companies took advantage of the Stimulus and then outsourced jobs.

That hardly seems the same as actively investing in companies knowing you are sending jobs over seas.




Quoting AMBG825:

So your argument is that it is not okay for a private company to spend private money to send jobs overseas but that using American tax dollars to outsource jobs is just hunky dory?

I'm not sure I would agree with that point of view.





Quoting brookiecookie87:




Quoting AMBG825:




Quoting brookiecookie87:




Is your argument for Mitt Romney really, "He hasn't been the President, yet"?

I was going to counter your claims with sources but then I saw, "Obama is the one that has guided us to disaster" then I realized the time and effort would be wasted because I doubt anything would change your stance.

Romney has not been in charge. Yet, he has sent Jobs Over Seas already. Before President Obama became President he had sent 0 jobs to Chinese workers. Romney has already praised a Chinese Sweat Shop. But this is completely off topic. I'll go back on topic/

In red you sayd President Obama has professors, and lower class. Then you say he has Union workers (Middle class?) and Occupy Crowd (College, College-graduates, and middle class). So you are saying President Obama has nearly the entity of America minus Upper-Middle class, and the extremely wealthy?


I would disagree. A LOT of Republicans fall in that crowd. But I imagine Mitt Romney agrees with you because he throws all those Republicans under the Bus with his 47% remark. Unless he understands they are Republicans but them not paying enough is enough for him to write them off and not care about them either.





 The only part of this that even remotely made sense was your claim Obama didn't sent jobs overseas. Au Contraire




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303292204577519181071135146.html





http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875




Kind of looks like they are both guilty of outsourcing jobs.




You must mean the only part you understand. And the one part you claim to understand-You don't.

Both those articles you listed are AFTER Obama became President. BillieJean was arguing that Romney hasn't wrecked our economy. I was pointing out he isn't President. And also pointing out before Obama became President he had not sent jobs over sea while on the other hand Romney already has sent jobs over seas and he hasn't been President yet.




 




 

 

 

 

 

 






 

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Sep. 20, 2012 at 5:32 PM

Do you have a source that shows these jobs are Temporary?

Because well I say a Temporary job is better than no job I can't imagine all these jobs being Temporary ones.

And neither Tweety or I have said that-Only you have. You don't have any proof or sources (Or haven't presented any) to support that claim either.

You assuming every single Business Romney put money into was going out of Business and couldn't survive here would be like me assuming every single Business that took advantage of the Stimulus had plans to stay here. We would both be wrong with those assumptions.

Unless you have proof that all those business were going bankrupt and couldn't survive here it doesn't make sense to assume that. Especially since you can grab nearly any business and fire the American jobs and move it overseas and make a LOT of money. A Business doesn't need to be going Bankrupt to do that.


Quoting AMBG825:

 So let me see if I understand. A temporary job, that will be gone in 6 months and you'll be out looking again, that pays almost nothing ....not even enough to live on is better than a long term job that pays close to a living wage? It would have been one thing to invest in companies that had hard core plans in place already, or even had begun, building here in the U.S. But that isn't what he did. It was given to companies that could not show even an interest in building here and they knew beforehand that they wouldn't be able to know if they did. That isn't a smart investment. Would you give your paycheck to someone without knowing if you'll ever see a return on it? If you answered yes, then there really isn't any further discussion that can be had.

 

As for Romney's job outsourcing, what you and Tweety both have agreed with is that he bought companies that were in bankruptcy and sent the jobs overseas to save them. I'll ask the question again. How many jobs is a company in bankruptcy going to create? If they are getting ready to close their doors, how are they going to create jobs? So what jobs were sent overseas?

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Except that their are Foreign Companies that have jobs here in America. I imagine someone who is jobless will take a job where they can get it for however long they can keep it. Either way saying it is a failure seems a far fetch from the truth since it worked.

It seems far better than letting the job lost to continue. And perhaps with his next Stimilus package he will learn from his previous one and curb some of the problems.

Mitt Romney admits buying Chinese sweatshop while at Bain. 20,000 young girls. 12 girls per room. 120 girls per bathroom. Huge fences with guard towers.


Quote:

"95% of life is set up for you if you were born in this country. And, I remember going to ah, uh, sorry just to bore you with stories.

When I was back in my private equity days, we went to China to buy a factory there. It employed about 20,000 people. And they were almost all young women between the ages of about 18 and 22 or 23. They were saving for potentially becoming married.

And they work in these huge factories, they made various uh, small appliances. And uh, as we were walking through this facility, seeing them work, the number of hours they worked per day, the pitance they earned, living in dormitories with uh, with little bathrooms at the end of maybe 10, 10 room, rooms. And the rooms they have 12 girls per room.

Three bunk beds on top of each other. You've seen, you've seen them? (Oh...yeah, yeah!) And, and, and around this factory was a fence, a huge fence with barbed wire and guard towers. And, and, we said gosh! I can't believe that you, you know, keep these girls in! They said, no, no, no. This is to keep other people from coming in.

Because people want so badly to come work in this factory that we have to keep them out. Or they will just come in here and start working and, and try and get compensated. So we, this is to keep people out. And they said, actually Chinese New Year as the girls go home, sometimes they decide they've saved enough money and they don't come back to the factory.

And he said, so, on the weekend after Chinese New Year there will be a line of people hundreds long, outside the factory, hoping that some girls haven't come back. And they can come to the factory. And, and so as we were experiencing this for the first time, going to see a factory like this in China some years ago.

The Bain Partner I was with turned to me and said, you know, 95% of life is settled if you are born in America. This is uh, this is an amazing land and what we have is unique and fortunately it is so special we are sharing it with the world."

-Mitt Romney-

That is what Mitt Romney is heard saying on the video.

I believe you already know that if I could I would push to bring jobs back over here. But again you keep making points that President Obama did something that lead to jobs going over seas but not as a direct result of his motives and intentions.

The whole point I have been making this entire time is Mitt Romney is not President and he has already pushed jobs overseas. Not indirectly but directly. He is praising Chinese workshops. That doesn't sound like the type of person that has any plans to stop it and sway people not to do it. That sounds like someone who has done it, given money to people who plan to do it, and as a President might continue that habit.

Unless he plans to run the Country differently than he ran his business. But if that is the case-Perhaps he should stop using his Business Experience as a selling point.


Quoting AMBG825:

I don't know how you didn't red the admission. It was clearly sayd that there was no way for Obama to have known that foreign companies would not have created foreign jobs.

I haven't gotten around to the sweat shop comment. I have heard out but haven't actually looked into it so I have no comment about out. As for the outsourced jobs, if the businesses that had jobs moved overseas were getting ready to close, they weren't going to bring jobs with them after they shut their doors. So far, all the businesses I've red about were businesses in which the jobs were going to be lost anyway. If you are going to hold those against Romney then the 200,000 jobs cut by GM that the bailout was supposed to prevent but didn't should be held against Obama. And you need to hold the whole GM sand Chrysler bailout as well since both off those businesses outsource more than they manufacture here. Why aren't you demanding that Obama make GM and Chrysler bring those outsourced jobs back to the U.S. it's feasible for Obama tho make that demand since the government owns a God chunk of their stock. Why are most of their vehicles and parts made overseas if we are so concerned about American jobs?

And those john numbers you are referring to as inflated. We saw this once already under the Obama stimulus. He created a bunch pic minimum wage, temporary jobs in order tip boost the employment numbers. 6 months later we saw those numbers jump up again. We need long term, sustainable jobs. More temporary minimum wage jobs is hl not going to bring our numbers up where they need to be.

And knowingly giving money to failing companies ours irresponsible. Obama is more like Bernie Madoff giving money tip a handful of people and then ripping off the majority of those giving him the money to off his rich friends.
Quoting brookiecookie87:

I just rechecked. The first link didn't take me to an article. It takes me to a page labled: Obama Stimlus Program Sent Jobs Abroad, GOP Says. However, there is no article attached to it. When I click the video tab it takes me to a Video with the same headline. The second link did lead to an article. 

But regardless-My counter arguments to them are still the same.

Trying to fix our Country and other companies taking advantage of the Stimulus and then Outsourcing is not the same as actively trying to send Jobs Oversea and praising Chinese sweat shops.

And the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics appear to show that the stimulus plan worked.

I think you may be confused. I didn't post a video. I posted 2 articles boot one. One was the article about the 3 overseas programs. The other was a gravy checker where you will find the quote from the press conference after the story originally broke. You must be confused if you only red 1 article and got a video instead of something "written" .



Quoting brookiecookie87:

Before I respond to this. I want to say I appreciate you sticking to the debate and not slinging mud. It makes the debate much more fun, I learn more, and probably makes it easier for people reading our replies to walk away more knowledgeable about both sides.

I don't think it was a lack of factories but a lack of factories with the ability to build it-Or they could be out right lying (Which seems to be what you are implying) but either way it was not President Obama's choice.

I have never seen President Obama admit to outsourcing. And if he did admit that you should have linked that source before the article where the outsourcing takes place After they got the money and the video of the GOP talking about out foreign companies took stimulus money but had factories/jobs in the US and how some US Jobs took stimulus money and then they used it to outsource.

Again-Companies taking money from the Stimulus and then using it to outsource is not the same as President Obama saying, "Here is some money go Outsource!".

We were in a recession when President Obama came in.


I would like to point out the Stimulus started in February 2009. How can you look at the numbers and say it failed?

And again-They didn't do the exact same thing. Mitt Romney was actively investing in Companies outsourcing to China. Romney even praised the Chinese workshop.

President Obama put out a stimulus to help the economy. Some US Companies did take the money and then decided to Outsource.

Those are not remotely the same. I am going to exaggerate for a bit to prove the point.

Let's say there are two people with a lot of guns (Money is used in the real example).
One person starts giving guns to Criminals instead of Citizens with the intent to give it to the Criminals (This is Romney actively investing in companies he knows will be Outsourcing).
The other person tries to set up a Gunshop so legal citizens can have guns. But some of those citizens get the guns and then sell them to criminals (This is President Obama trying to boost the economy but some people using it for out sourcing instead).

Sure-Someone might try to say both people are the same. But it's not. One person had a clear intent when doing it. The other person was trying to help and people decided to do something else with it.

President Obama was not trying to send jobs over seas. That was not his intent. And from the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics it seems pretty clear that it worked and helped.

Mit Romney had the intent to send jobs overseas and is even heard praising the chinese workshops.



Quoting AMBG825:

So you mean to tell everyone that with all the factories that are closed down and sitting empty there are no factories to be found in the U.S.?





And while I don't think Obama is the brightest man on the planet, I still think he is smarter than you and will take his word when he admitted that 2.83 billion dollars of taxpayer money was used to outsource jobs to other countries.





The stimulus that was supposed to boost the economy failed and yet he intends to do another stimulus?????? So another trillion dollars to create a few hundred jobs. That's intelligent. Not really.





The double standard comes from 2 people doing the exact same thing and credit only being given to one. Credit that isn't due him either











Quoting brookiecookie87:

The article you did link talked about how a Car Company RECIEVED the money then couldn't find a factory that could build their car and THEN outsourced to Finland.

The Video you linked to was the GOP Talking about other Companies that did something of the same nature. Seeing that it was from teh GOP I decided to look into myself and found what I figured would come up.

Unlike Romney who was looking to send Jobs Over Seas President Obama offered a Stimulus to boost our economy. There are foreign companies that took some money from the Stimulus but those companies had factories, firms, businesses here. The same way that some businesses here would take the money but have factories,  firms, businesses over seas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obama-and-outsourcing-a-guide-to-the-gops-charges/2012/07/11/gJQA1LBIeW_blog.html

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between Romney who was seeking to send jobs over seas and is found praising a Chinese Workshop that he was looking into.

And President Obama who was trying to Boost the Economy.

If you believe Americans taking money meant to boost our Economy and then outsourcing or Foreing Countries that have factories here, and jobs here is the same as someone who is trying to send jobs over seas.

That's not even a double standard. That is trying to manupilate data/information to fit your desires.




Quoting AMBG825:

 What a shocker you didn't red the links provided. Or have you actually listened to the Obama staff when they sayd that they used stimulus money (approved by Obama BTW) to fund foreign companies. It also comes as no shock that the Obama administration, when asked about sayd monies stated that they did so in the HOPES they would bring jobs to the U.S. but there was never any way for them to determine if that money would have ever provided jobs here.




 




Companies outsourcing jobs to other countries is not uncommon. It's actually a part of business around the Globe. Ironically, GM and Chrysler both outsource more jobs overseas than they do in the U.S. Obama's claim that GM is now the #1 auto company ...if you take away autos manufactured and sold overseas, they're actually at the bottom of the list. As a matter of fact, Toyota (you know a "foreign" company) gives more jobs to Americans than GM does. Honda (another "foreign" company) provides more American jobs than Chrysler. Matter of fact, Toyota and Honda both beat GM in Car & Driver's list of best American made vehicles. 5 of the top 10 "American made" cars were made by Toyota and Honda. One can even argue that GM is no longer an American owned company considering Fiat (an Italian company) owns the controlling shares of GM. And that is just the auto industry (the industry we spent billions of tax dollars on)




 




So anyone who has ever had a basic economics class knows that companies sending jobs overseas and overseas companies sending jobs to the U.S., is not all that uncommon nor is it even eyebrow raising. It's a part of global trading. However, our government sending money overseas to create jobs when they are desperately needed here in the U.S. is something the citizens of this country should be outraged over.




 




And had you red the links you migh have seen where that was sayd. The entity of the Obama crowd seems to have a few double standards.




Quoting brookiecookie87:




Are you implying that actively investing in Companies that plan to Outsource Jobs and openly praising Chinese sweatshops is the same as trying to run the country and companies deciding to outsource on their own?

I don't know if you read/watched either of the links you gave. But neither of them show President Obama out sourcing jobs. It does show instances where companies took advantage of the Stimulus and then outsourced jobs.

That hardly seems the same as actively investing in companies knowing you are sending jobs over seas.




Quoting AMBG825:

So your argument is that it is not okay for a private company to spend private money to send jobs overseas but that using American tax dollars to outsource jobs is just hunky dory?

I'm not sure I would agree with that point of view.





Quoting brookiecookie87:




Quoting AMBG825:




Quoting brookiecookie87:




Is your argument for Mitt Romney really, "He hasn't been the President, yet"?

I was going to counter your claims with sources but then I saw, "Obama is the one that has guided us to disaster" then I realized the time and effort would be wasted because I doubt anything would change your stance.

Romney has not been in charge. Yet, he has sent Jobs Over Seas already. Before President Obama became President he had sent 0 jobs to Chinese workers. Romney has already praised a Chinese Sweat Shop. But this is completely off topic. I'll go back on topic/

In red you sayd President Obama has professors, and lower class. Then you say he has Union workers (Middle class?) and Occupy Crowd (College, College-graduates, and middle class). So you are saying President Obama has nearly the entity of America minus Upper-Middle class, and the extremely wealthy?


I would disagree. A LOT of Republicans fall in that crowd. But I imagine Mitt Romney agrees with you because he throws all those Republicans under the Bus with his 47% remark. Unless he understands they are Republicans but them not paying enough is enough for him to write them off and not care about them either.





 The only part of this that even remotely made sense was your claim Obama didn't sent jobs overseas. Au Contraire




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303292204577519181071135146.html





http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875




Kind of looks like they are both guilty of outsourcing jobs.




You must mean the only part you understand. And the one part you claim to understand-You don't.

Both those articles you listed are AFTER Obama became President. BillieJean was arguing that Romney hasn't wrecked our economy. I was pointing out he isn't President. And also pointing out before Obama became President he had not sent jobs over sea while on the other hand Romney already has sent jobs over seas and he hasn't been President yet.








 





 


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tweety101149
by Platinum Member on Sep. 20, 2012 at 8:53 PM


Quoting AMBG825:

 

Quoting tweety101149:

 

Quoting AMBG825:

 

/Quoting brookiecookie87:

 

Quoting BillieJeans:

 

Quoting tweety101149:

 

Quoting gotnothinonme:

The Obama supporters I know -professionally, personally and both- are Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Stetson grads, often with multiple degrees-most are millionaires, most politically active, business owners, community focused, people oriented, and never taken a handout in thier lives- in my personal case the OPPOSITE is true, the conservatives I know are poor, uneducated, bitter, racist or scared of the world they're living in and blame Obama- no matter how compulsory they've been in their own situations- so I admit my world view here is totally different than that which the conservatives tout - I'm not sure how to take Romney's statements - and how I take them is irrelevant, he's not getting my vote at this point- I've tried to be fair and open minded about him as a candidate but frankly I can't find any commonality with his vision for our country as I understand it.

OMY.  pointing out the truth that many of Obama's support are highly educated..fully employed  will destroy the Romney platform.., that Obama's supporters are low life parasites depending on government to support them.   I worked over 30 years and worked with my disablities until it became apparent that I no longer could work.  I had to fight 3.5 years to recieve disability..thank G-d I now have medicare.,,and the friggin repubs want to take that into privatization?  I paid 30 years worth for that.  It is not my fault they (government) borrowed against our soc. sec./medicare.  and now can't pay it back.  I am sure they (government) realized that with the baby boom..., there would many more going on social security/medicare than there were people coming off the program..(death).  Government sues or takes people to court for not paying taxes, what makes them better than the people they borrowed money from? Romney doesn't give any consideration for me and 47% of the country..why should we care about him.   He throughout his campaign has not said one thing that I would trust.  Further he never actually discussed how he would bring employment to American soil..., improving economics for large corp. where jobs are off American soil doesn't count.


Half ridiculous/Half lie

Of course Obama has the support of the elite egghead Professor types, along with the "low life parasites" (your words) everyone knows he has support of Professors, unions and the occupy crowd, I doubt anyone would dispute that.

Obama is the one that indisputably cut medicare to fund Obama care, Obama is the one that took taxpayer money to ship jobs overseas, Obama is the one that has guided us to disaster, Romney hasn't been in charge, none of his policies have wrecked the economy, it is all Obama.

I would be interested in knowing where you get your information.

Is your argument for Mitt Romney really, "He hasn't been the President, yet"?

I was going to counter your claims with sources but then I saw, "Obama is the one that has guided us to disaster" then I realized the time and effort would be wasted because I doubt anything would change your stance.

Romney has not been in charge. Yet, he has sent Jobs Over Seas already. Before President Obama became President he had sent 0 jobs to Chinese workers. Romney has already praised a Chinese Sweat Shop. But this is completely off topic. I'll go back on topic/

In red you sayd President Obama has professors, and lower class. Then you say he has Union workers (Middle class?) and Occupy Crowd (College, College-graduates, and middle class). So you are saying President Obama has nearly the entity of America minus Upper-Middle class, and the extremely wealthy?


I would disagree. A LOT of Republicans fall in that crowd. But I imagine Mitt Romney agrees with you because he throws all those Republicans under the Bus with his 47% remark. Unless he understands they are Republicans but them not paying enough is enough for him to write them off and not care about them either.

 The only part of this that even remotely made sense was your claim Obama didn't sent jobs overseas. Au Contraire

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303292204577519181071135146.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/car-company-us-loan-builds-cars-finland/story?id=14770875

 

 

Kind of looks like they are both guilty of outsourcing jobs.

Look into Romney's tenure (that many say didn't end until 2002, but still had influence) into Bain capital.  How many companies did they "save" from bankruptcy, and then many of those companies "dismissed" American workers, suddenly those jobs were in China, India..and other  places not on American soil.  That's how Romney made his millions as the expense of the American worker.  This not only in the labor force, but customer service as well, production managers.   You wonder why ordinary Americans... have a strong disliking for Romney.  

Obama allowed jobs to be outsourced, yes.  Which is why he lost some support.   He did bail out GMC..to save thousands of jobs.  Do you realize what would have happened had GM gone under.   It could have possibly taken down other companies with it.  When thousands of people loose their employment..  others suffer.  

Don't even get me started on what Bush did to this country, that even if McCain wouldn't have been able to rectify in 4 years...  

 If those companies were going into bankruptcy wouldn't you think they would have dismissed workers anyway?

 

And the bailout did not help GM save jobs. GM said if they didn't get the bailout money they would have to file bankruptcy and lay off about 200,000 workers. That's why the government gave them the money. They got the bailout money and they STILL filed bankruptcy and they STILL laid off 200,000 workers. The bailout didn't save any jobs for GM. And GM wouldn't have gone under. They would have done what Ford did. They would have filed for a Chapter 11 and reorganized. They would have fired their top 1% workers (that make higher salaries) and found themselves new talent and restructured. Instead, because of the bailout, they fired their lower 1%, the ones with the lowest salaries and kept the same people that got them into the mess in the first place. Hence part of the reason there are rumors floating around that GM will be filing bankruptcy again. Add to that the government putting pressure on GM to build cars that are not safe and the American people didn't want. There are thousands of Volts sitting on lots right now that GM can't sell. The camaro that they hoped would pull them out, isn't doing as well as they hoped. (that's because compared to Ford and Chrysler's revamped nostalgia cars, the camaro sucks ass. But that part alone is just a personal opinion)  So the bailout hurt GM more than it helped.

 

And GM will not go out of business completely. At worst, they'll sell what they have left in the U.S. to another company and start focusing on their overseas market. Their overseas market is a lot more successful than their market here in the U.S. The U.S. market will not be successful until they start figuring out how to compete using gas saving family sedans rather than the rumbling muscle car.

GM will not sell out nor go bankrupt. as of now.   The gov. won't sell the stock until it (the stock go above $24 per share),  IMO the biggest mistake they can make is if they take the business complete overseas, It is reasons like this that America is in the financial sh*thouse it is in, taking jobs out of America.  If people here don't work, they don't have money to buy, USA products or foreign.  Time to wake up big arse Corps. keep jobs on American soil,  having the largest bottom profit line isn't worth the jobs it is costing American workers. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmuller/2012/09/17/gms-catch-22-has-only-one-answer/

butterfly on headlynda  




tuplamama
by Bronze Member on Sep. 24, 2012 at 2:07 AM

 Note; Said factory here in Finland is specialised high-tech electric cars - they have customers from all over the world - so not just American cars. Also - said factory is owned by big finnish company that have branches in USA, hiring much more Americans than the small car factory here.

You people playing finnish Angry Birds-games give much much more money to Finns than this whole car thingy.

 

 

 

 


Your clitoris has over 8000 sensitive nerve endings.......... foreskin has over 20 000.


 




 

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