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Michigan Muslims rally against First Amendment (debunked)

Michigan Muslims rally against First Amendment

Michigan Muslims rally against First Amendment
From the event's website: "The gathering will be attended by over 1,000 community members, clergy, community leaders and public officials of all persuasions who continue to reject the messages of hate and Islamaphobia that have escalated in recent months and years, most recently with the production of the infamous film 'Innocence of Muslims.' " Photo Credit:Facebook

Led by a newspaper publisher, Muslim activists will call for putting limits on American free speech at a Dearborn rally this evening. You can't make this stuff up.

Nearly a decade after Dearborn's streets celebrated America for bringing down Saddam Hussein and opening a door to democracy in the Mideast, the same city will be the epicenter today of calls to squelch free speech. Protesting the film, "Innocence of Muslims," that has sparked protests in the Mideast, rally organizer Tarek Baydoun says that so-called blasphemy laws are necessary to prevent speech that hurts the "the religious feelings of Muslims."

This assault on the First Amendment in the name of the prophet Mohammed is a sad day in America — and confirms fears that Muslim-American activists do not understand the fundamental separation of church and state in the American Constitution.


9/30/12: This blog/article is clearly an attempt to aggravate people. Thanks to a great discussion and multiple contributions "we" have come to the conclusion that this article it bullshit.



by on Sep. 29, 2012 at 10:16 PM
Replies (521-530):
stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 5:40 PM

Wow.  So no matter what she says it's not enough for you.

Quoting 12hellokitty:


I can understand that, but it seems you condemn speech you find offensive with more passion then you do the violent actions done in the name of your faith. 

Quoting LivingIslam:

 I condemn any acts of violence done in the name of my faith.  I condemn it on both sides. 

Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting LivingIslam:

 That movie and those subway ads are created to dehumanize, villianize and entice hatred towards people who are Muslim.  They are meant to cultivate a climate of dislike and hatred towards us.  There are groups behind this with big agendas.  Look at the timing:  right during the week of 9/11 they bring out the movie and the subway ads.  There is a real agenda to keep the hate, distrust and dislike of Muslim Americans going. 

 

Have you seen the movie?  Other then a 13 minute clip on youtube, I'm not aware of this movie having been marketed in the US.  Other then a handful of people no one had heard of the movie until it was used as propaganda by not only extremist, but sadly the Obama administration. 

I have watched the 13 minute youtube clip and it's stupid.  People who find humor in mocking religions think the movie was stupid and not funny.  In fact I'm not aware of ANYONE who found the movie to be the lest bit funny or cleaver.  So I find it hard to believe this movie could be viewed as inciting people to react violently towards Muslims.

As for the timing, the movie was made and had been on youtube since July, and the subway ads were submitted a year ago and just recently approved and put up by the MTA.   

Have you ever thought that perhaps the Muslim extremists engaging in violence are the ones who benefit the most in promoting an atmosphere of hate, distrust and dislike of Muslims? 

 



muslimahpj
by Ruby Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 5:50 PM

Of course not. Nothing a muslim says will ever be good enough for her.

Quoting stacymomof2:

Wow.  So no matter what she says it's not enough for you.

Quoting 12hellokitty:


I can understand that, but it seems you condemn speech you find offensive with more passion then you do the violent actions done in the name of your faith. 

Quoting LivingIslam:

 I condemn any acts of violence done in the name of my faith.  I condemn it on both sides. 

Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting LivingIslam:

 That movie and those subway ads are created to dehumanize, villianize and entice hatred towards people who are Muslim.  They are meant to cultivate a climate of dislike and hatred towards us.  There are groups behind this with big agendas.  Look at the timing:  right during the week of 9/11 they bring out the movie and the subway ads.  There is a real agenda to keep the hate, distrust and dislike of Muslim Americans going. 

 

Have you seen the movie?  Other then a 13 minute clip on youtube, I'm not aware of this movie having been marketed in the US.  Other then a handful of people no one had heard of the movie until it was used as propaganda by not only extremist, but sadly the Obama administration. 

I have watched the 13 minute youtube clip and it's stupid.  People who find humor in mocking religions think the movie was stupid and not funny.  In fact I'm not aware of ANYONE who found the movie to be the lest bit funny or cleaver.  So I find it hard to believe this movie could be viewed as inciting people to react violently towards Muslims.

As for the timing, the movie was made and had been on youtube since July, and the subway ads were submitted a year ago and just recently approved and put up by the MTA.   

Have you ever thought that perhaps the Muslim extremists engaging in violence are the ones who benefit the most in promoting an atmosphere of hate, distrust and dislike of Muslims? 

 





stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 6:05 PM
1 mom liked this

I don't think I'm getting my point through to you for whatever reason.  You seem content to believe everything you are told that fits your POV.  

The simplest answer to it is this:

You are taking some oppressive and paternalistic cultures and saying it all has to do with Islam.  Too bad that the oppression and paternalistic part existed long before Islam ever came along.  You prefer to tell me that I am somewhat naive and think that all Muslims are the same.  What I am REALLY saying is that there are people like this ALL OVER.  Don't post some stupid definition of Jihad posted from some online dictionary, I freaking KNOW what it means and what it means to Muslims.  It's not defined in one line.  And it DOES only mean a personal struggle.  However extremists are saying that their PERSONAL srtuggle includes struggling against people they disagree with.  You prefer to ignore that because it's easier to say it means something akin to "holy war."  You are wrong.  Wrong for every day Muslims and wrong in the way that terrorists use it to fuck with people's minds.  You just don't understand, you refuse to.  It's not MY personal definition or my husbands or just the "nice" Muslims.  It's the REAL definition which is used to make people committed to a political war, but make them PERSONALLY committed.

Terrorists may be "real Muslims," I don't know, that would be their own definition.  But they have no standing in Islam for what they do.  There is no jihad killing in the Quar'an.  None.  Look it up, read it if you don't believe me.

And no, I was told several times on this board that because I didn't stand against Islam, I was personally responsible for allowing child rape, furthermore I was told that I must be OK with MY OWN DAUGHTER being married to a pedophile because my husband is an Arabic Muslim.  I will PM you the link if you don't believe me.

What I am telling you is that if you personally prefer to believe the stuff you say here to be the character of the religion, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I can only conclude that you are CHOOSING what you want to believe based not on facts but on bias.  That is your issue, not mine.

I KNOW what Islam is about.  I don't need a bunch of half educated fear mongers to "educate" me.  I'm here to educate THEM in these threads.  Believe that.  I hate lies and BS.

You may wonder why a person who defends Islam so much is not actually a Muslim.  Well I will say that I have personal critiques of it, which I will not get into.  furthermore most of the serious disagreements I have with Islam are the same ones I have with Christianity.  To me they are two sides of the same coin.  

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

I'll tell you what, I'm not so much irritated as disgusted at the blatant bigotry being excused on this board these past couple of weeks.  I've seen you dissect an anti-Obama bullshit story in a heartbeat, yet this is beyond you, huh.  Jihad means terrorism!  Muslims are savages, animals, blow them into a parking lot!  They beat their women and rape their kids!  Sharia means stoning!  And God help any poor muslimah on this thread who has the nerve to provide actual accepted definitions of these words that are being used against her.  Ignored or told to get over it, her explanations denied like she is ignorant of the religion she practices.  Every violent protester is the prime example of Islam, the other billion and a half Muslims apparently don't exist.  Peace rally=anti-free speech, meanwhile lectures abound from people swearing that Muslims aren't speaking out.

 Meanwhile other people are whining about Piss Christ and Bill Maher.  Pure ignorance about society, about anything beyond their own tiny, pinpoint of a world where Fox and Breitbart are king, 'Merica can do no wrong, and free speech is only the speech they agree with.

Irritated is not the word.

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

Yes, futureshock.  Notice the quotes are around "the religious feelings of Muslims" and not "blasphemy laws are necessary."  Who knows what the guy actually said.  So Sean Hannity took some article from Breitbart and hyped it up?  Color me shocked.  But don't color me convinced.  

This comes from Breitbart.  Do you only like them when they talk smack about muslims, or are you a fan of Breitbart?  Funny you seem to disagree with them at other times, but when they talk about Muslims they are all good, huh?

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

Because all the articles that are saying it are from one source and just copy the same article.  Someone posted an article from the Arab newspaper that explained what the ralley (not really a protest but a meeting at a mosque) was about, it never mentioned free speech.  I myself lined the facebook event page, nothing about free speech in there.  None of the posters or event pages linked to the actual event say anything about blaspemy laws, they only talk about condemning violence.

No valid source has been shown to say anything about free speech laws.  A Muslim woman from the Dearborn area said the event was exactly as presented in the posters and facebook page, that it had speakers from other faiths and was a rally to support anti-violence and anti-islamophobia.  The only source for anything about free speech was a partial quote from a biased source that didn't actually say anything about free speech laws.

This seems to have stemmed from Breitbart and Sean Hannity, both of whom are known to misquote and make stuff up. 

It wasn't even a protest of the anti-Islam movie, it was people gathering to talk against violence and extremism.  Just like their event page, posters, and attendees said it was.

Quoting Moniker:

I'm sorry if I missed it but how did we come to the conclusion that this article was a hoax or a complete misrepresentation? I found several different articles all saying it was about free speech. If it's been debunked that's great but I'm wondering how anyone came to that conclusion? 


The only source for anything about free speech was a partial quote from a biased source that didn't actually say anything about free speech laws.

Is this the quote you are claiming has nothing to do with free speech?

rally organizer Tarek Baydoun says that so-called blasphemy laws are necessary to prevent speech that hurts the "the religious feelings of Muslims."



There is no need to get so irritated.  I am just trying to clarify the story.


I really like and respect you so I am going to be brutally honest with you. 

I am very sorry for making you feel angry, that was never my intention.

Here are my issues with this topic:

Jihad means terrorism!  

Terrorists who are Muslim are the ones who frequently use this word, Jihad.  They mean it in a way that represents:

ji·had

noun
1. a holy war undertaken as a sacred duty by Muslims.

For you to claim that it ONLY means a personal struggle (paraphrasing) is disingenuous at best.

Muslims are savages, animals, blow them into a parking lot!  

I have never, ever said ALL Muslims are savages.  However, some Muslims do blow up innocent people.  You may claim that they are not "really Muslims" but THEY think they are.  They are interpreting your Quran differently than you are, but it is the same book nonetheless.  I think it is dishonest to try to claim they are not following Islam just because they are following it in a radically different way than you are following it. 

They beat their women and rape their kids!  

Are you trying to say that women do not get beaten in many Muslim countries for showing ankles, going to school, getting raped, etc., etc.? Trying to claim that this does not happen is another example of being less than honest.  You are trying to deny reality.  Many of us have seen or read of instances of this happening.  No one has ever said ALL Muslim men beat women. 

I have never seen anyone claim they rape their children, but I am sure you were just using that as hyperbole.

Sharia means stoning!  

No one has ever said Sharia means ONLY stoning, but for you to claim that Sharia does NOT EVER include stoning is, again, disingenuous.

And God help any poor muslimah on this thread who has the nerve to provide actual accepted definitions of these words that are being used against her.  

That is just it, you are NOT providing all of the accepted definitions of these words, only those accepted by YOU and the Muslims YOU associate with.  See above.

Ignored or told to get over it, her explanations denied like she is ignorant of the religion she practices.  

See above.

Every violent protester is the prime example of Islam, the other billion and a half Muslims apparently don't exist.

No one is saying this.





stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 6:08 PM

I agree completely.

Quoting smalltowngal:


Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting smalltowngal:

If you noticed my comment above, I don't say anything about chilling free speech. I said that some positive things need to be said to counteract all the negative. The main purpose of this rally was to try and bring all faiths to get along. To try and discuss how to stop some of the violence against Muslims is increasing and people want to focus on one line one person may or may not have said and ignore all the positives this rally was suppose to be about.

The mosque that was set on fire on Sunday was less than 2 hours away from Dearborn where this rally for peace took place. As some point, people have to decide if they want to constantly focus on the negative Muslims or actually talk about the positive things about them and maybe try and help them. People can actually talk about how dumb extremists are and also talk positively about good Muslims. 

 I am not speaking in specific about this particular rally, or if it was or wasn't a rally, or if it was or wasn't against First Amendment freedoms.

It is clear, from what I can see, in at least some of the comments that were said at the event, plus from some in this thread, that there is a belief that free speech that includes allowances for people to say hateful and hurtful things about someone's religion or prophet, is the catalyst for violence.

Free speech is just that, free speech.  Hateful or offensive speech, in part because it lives so much in the eye (and ear) of the beholder, must be protected, and is so by the Constitution.  I always look towards the slippery slope that says if we allow ANY chill on this most cherished freedom, it can devolve into not being able to speak freely against government. 

It is always wonderful for people to gather and speak of positivity.  It is great to have counterbalance in the world, and certainly, if I was in a group that people were saying terrible things about, I would be speaking out to counter those words.

But we cannot blame people who speak hatefully for the violence others do because they don't like what someone has said.

We CAN blame hateful speakers for taking it to another level of violence, same as those who react violently to speech.

I completely agree with the part in purple. I am just frustrated right now and I know part is because that mosque that was set on fire is less than 30 minutes from my house and I probably go by it once a week. I think as a society, there is some responsibility that comes with free speech to make sure both sides are heard because what's the point of free speech if you only hear one side? Isn't one of the greatest things about it is you do get to hear different point of views and I know sometimes I actually benefit more from hearing the extreme view point. It often make me reevaluate my point of view. 

There should be a much bigger conversation happening right now. I mentioned it earlier on how extremism isn't just increasing amonst Muslims but world wide. The Golden Dawn Party is in increasing in Greece.There was a Hindu Pujari was talking about wanting to decapitate Muslims. China is having protests against Japan and Japan is protesting against China. Tensions are increasing world wide and we're being lazy and just blaming Muslims and talking about any protest they have instead of looking at the bigger picture. 

Sorry, I'm kind of ranting a bit here. 


stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 6:18 PM

My answers keep getting longer and longer and more and more heated.  I feel like I am talking to nobody.

Do you know my oh so innocent husband didn't even fully understand the extent to which people misunderstand the word jihad?  His understanding (of course, being raised in the religion) is very in depth.  It took me a while to even explain what people say about it here.  He kept on saying "it doesn't mean something bad..." because he gets it.  He gets what it's supposed to be and also understands how it is being used to influence people politically, but it was a struggle for me to get accross to him that people think it means violence in this country.

It makes me sad for him that he is so honest and committed, and people would hear him using the word and think he is talking about violence.  Him, who uses his religion to overcome anger and be accepting, to encourage himself to be forgiving and kind and to help people.  

Quoting muslimahpj:

Of course not. Nothing a muslim says will ever be good enough for her.

Quoting stacymomof2:

Wow.  So no matter what she says it's not enough for you.

Quoting 12hellokitty:


I can understand that, but it seems you condemn speech you find offensive with more passion then you do the violent actions done in the name of your faith. 

Quoting LivingIslam:

 I condemn any acts of violence done in the name of my faith.  I condemn it on both sides. 

Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting LivingIslam:

 That movie and those subway ads are created to dehumanize, villianize and entice hatred towards people who are Muslim.  They are meant to cultivate a climate of dislike and hatred towards us.  There are groups behind this with big agendas.  Look at the timing:  right during the week of 9/11 they bring out the movie and the subway ads.  There is a real agenda to keep the hate, distrust and dislike of Muslim Americans going. 

 

Have you seen the movie?  Other then a 13 minute clip on youtube, I'm not aware of this movie having been marketed in the US.  Other then a handful of people no one had heard of the movie until it was used as propaganda by not only extremist, but sadly the Obama administration. 

I have watched the 13 minute youtube clip and it's stupid.  People who find humor in mocking religions think the movie was stupid and not funny.  In fact I'm not aware of ANYONE who found the movie to be the lest bit funny or cleaver.  So I find it hard to believe this movie could be viewed as inciting people to react violently towards Muslims.

As for the timing, the movie was made and had been on youtube since July, and the subway ads were submitted a year ago and just recently approved and put up by the MTA.   

Have you ever thought that perhaps the Muslim extremists engaging in violence are the ones who benefit the most in promoting an atmosphere of hate, distrust and dislike of Muslims? 

 





muslimahpj
by Ruby Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 6:38 PM

I know, it can be really heartbreaking to see them not understand how some people are using it for hate. 

You pretty much are talking to nobody. I know when I feel myself losing my cool with it, I have to step out and just ignore certain people. I think alot of times they are doing it just so we do get mad and react.

Quoting stacymomof2:

My answers keep getting longer and longer and more and more heated.  I feel like I am talking to nobody.

Do you know my oh so innocent husband didn't even fully understand the extent to which people misunderstand the word jihad?  His understanding (of course, being raised in the religion) is very in depth.  It took me a while to even explain what people say about it here.  He kept on saying "it doesn't mean something bad..." because he gets it.  He gets what it's supposed to be and also understands how it is being used to influence people politically, but it was a struggle for me to get accross to him that people think it means violence in this country.

It makes me sad for him that he is so honest and committed, and people would hear him using the word and think he is talking about violence.  Him, who uses his religion to overcome anger and be accepting, to encourage himself to be forgiving and kind and to help people.  

Quoting muslimahpj:

Of course not. Nothing a muslim says will ever be good enough for her.

Quoting stacymomof2:

Wow.  So no matter what she says it's not enough for you.

Quoting 12hellokitty:


I can understand that, but it seems you condemn speech you find offensive with more passion then you do the violent actions done in the name of your faith. 

Quoting LivingIslam:

 I condemn any acts of violence done in the name of my faith.  I condemn it on both sides. 

Quoting 12hellokitty:


Quoting LivingIslam:

 That movie and those subway ads are created to dehumanize, villianize and entice hatred towards people who are Muslim.  They are meant to cultivate a climate of dislike and hatred towards us.  There are groups behind this with big agendas.  Look at the timing:  right during the week of 9/11 they bring out the movie and the subway ads.  There is a real agenda to keep the hate, distrust and dislike of Muslim Americans going. 

 

Have you seen the movie?  Other then a 13 minute clip on youtube, I'm not aware of this movie having been marketed in the US.  Other then a handful of people no one had heard of the movie until it was used as propaganda by not only extremist, but sadly the Obama administration. 

I have watched the 13 minute youtube clip and it's stupid.  People who find humor in mocking religions think the movie was stupid and not funny.  In fact I'm not aware of ANYONE who found the movie to be the lest bit funny or cleaver.  So I find it hard to believe this movie could be viewed as inciting people to react violently towards Muslims.

As for the timing, the movie was made and had been on youtube since July, and the subway ads were submitted a year ago and just recently approved and put up by the MTA.   

Have you ever thought that perhaps the Muslim extremists engaging in violence are the ones who benefit the most in promoting an atmosphere of hate, distrust and dislike of Muslims? 

 






muslimahpj
by Ruby Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 6:42 PM

I love how they have ALL ignored what I posted about jihad in this thread and the other thread. Notice how not ONE of them even repsonded to it? Yet, they will keep bringing this bs into the discussions?

Quoting stacymomof2:

I don't think I'm getting my point through to you for whatever reason.  You seem content to believe everything you are told that fits your POV.  

The simplest answer to it is this:

You are taking some oppressive and paternalistic cultures and saying it all has to do with Islam.  Too bad that the oppression and paternalistic part existed long before Islam ever came along.  You prefer to tell me that I am somewhat naive and think that all Muslims are the same.  What I am REALLY saying is that there are people like this ALL OVER.  Don't post some stupid definition of Jihad posted from some online dictionary, I freaking KNOW what it means and what it means to Muslims.  It's not defined in one line.  And it DOES only mean a personal struggle.  However extremists are saying that their PERSONAL srtuggle includes struggling against people they disagree with.  You prefer to ignore that because it's easier to say it means something akin to "holy war."  You are wrong.  Wrong for every day Muslims and wrong in the way that terrorists use it to fuck with people's minds.  You just don't understand, you refuse to.  It's not MY personal definition or my husbands or just the "nice" Muslims.  It's the REAL definition which is used to make people committed to a political war, but make them PERSONALLY committed.

Terrorists may be "real Muslims," I don't know, that would be their own definition.  But they have no standing in Islam for what they do.  There is no jihad killing in the Quar'an.  None.  Look it up, read it if you don't believe me.

And no, I was told several times on this board that because I didn't stand against Islam, I was personally responsible for allowing child rape, furthermore I was told that I must be OK with MY OWN DAUGHTER being married to a pedophile because my husband is an Arabic Muslim.  I will PM you the link if you don't believe me.

What I am telling you is that if you personally prefer to believe the stuff you say here to be the character of the religion, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I can only conclude that you are CHOOSING what you want to believe based not on facts but on bias.  That is your issue, not mine.

I KNOW what Islam is about.  I don't need a bunch of half educated fear mongers to "educate" me.  I'm here to educate THEM in these threads.  Believe that.  I hate lies and BS.

You may wonder why a person who defends Islam so much is not actually a Muslim.  Well I will say that I have personal critiques of it, which I will not get into.  furthermore most of the serious disagreements I have with Islam are the same ones I have with Christianity.  To me they are two sides of the same coin.  

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

I'll tell you what, I'm not so much irritated as disgusted at the blatant bigotry being excused on this board these past couple of weeks.  I've seen you dissect an anti-Obama bullshit story in a heartbeat, yet this is beyond you, huh.  Jihad means terrorism!  Muslims are savages, animals, blow them into a parking lot!  They beat their women and rape their kids!  Sharia means stoning!  And God help any poor muslimah on this thread who has the nerve to provide actual accepted definitions of these words that are being used against her.  Ignored or told to get over it, her explanations denied like she is ignorant of the religion she practices.  Every violent protester is the prime example of Islam, the other billion and a half Muslims apparently don't exist.  Peace rally=anti-free speech, meanwhile lectures abound from people swearing that Muslims aren't speaking out.

 Meanwhile other people are whining about Piss Christ and Bill Maher.  Pure ignorance about society, about anything beyond their own tiny, pinpoint of a world where Fox and Breitbart are king, 'Merica can do no wrong, and free speech is only the speech they agree with.

Irritated is not the word.

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

Yes, futureshock.  Notice the quotes are around "the religious feelings of Muslims" and not "blasphemy laws are necessary."  Who knows what the guy actually said.  So Sean Hannity took some article from Breitbart and hyped it up?  Color me shocked.  But don't color me convinced.  

This comes from Breitbart.  Do you only like them when they talk smack about muslims, or are you a fan of Breitbart?  Funny you seem to disagree with them at other times, but when they talk about Muslims they are all good, huh?

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

Because all the articles that are saying it are from one source and just copy the same article.  Someone posted an article from the Arab newspaper that explained what the ralley (not really a protest but a meeting at a mosque) was about, it never mentioned free speech.  I myself lined the facebook event page, nothing about free speech in there.  None of the posters or event pages linked to the actual event say anything about blaspemy laws, they only talk about condemning violence.

No valid source has been shown to say anything about free speech laws.  A Muslim woman from the Dearborn area said the event was exactly as presented in the posters and facebook page, that it had speakers from other faiths and was a rally to support anti-violence and anti-islamophobia.  The only source for anything about free speech was a partial quote from a biased source that didn't actually say anything about free speech laws.

This seems to have stemmed from Breitbart and Sean Hannity, both of whom are known to misquote and make stuff up. 

It wasn't even a protest of the anti-Islam movie, it was people gathering to talk against violence and extremism.  Just like their event page, posters, and attendees said it was.

Quoting Moniker:

I'm sorry if I missed it but how did we come to the conclusion that this article was a hoax or a complete misrepresentation? I found several different articles all saying it was about free speech. If it's been debunked that's great but I'm wondering how anyone came to that conclusion? 


The only source for anything about free speech was a partial quote from a biased source that didn't actually say anything about free speech laws.

Is this the quote you are claiming has nothing to do with free speech?

rally organizer Tarek Baydoun says that so-called blasphemy laws are necessary to prevent speech that hurts the "the religious feelings of Muslims."



There is no need to get so irritated.  I am just trying to clarify the story.


I really like and respect you so I am going to be brutally honest with you. 

I am very sorry for making you feel angry, that was never my intention.

Here are my issues with this topic:

Jihad means terrorism!  

Terrorists who are Muslim are the ones who frequently use this word, Jihad.  They mean it in a way that represents:

ji·had

noun
1. a holy war undertaken as a sacred duty by Muslims.

For you to claim that it ONLY means a personal struggle (paraphrasing) is disingenuous at best.

Muslims are savages, animals, blow them into a parking lot!  

I have never, ever said ALL Muslims are savages.  However, some Muslims do blow up innocent people.  You may claim that they are not "really Muslims" but THEY think they are.  They are interpreting your Quran differently than you are, but it is the same book nonetheless.  I think it is dishonest to try to claim they are not following Islam just because they are following it in a radically different way than you are following it. 

They beat their women and rape their kids!  

Are you trying to say that women do not get beaten in many Muslim countries for showing ankles, going to school, getting raped, etc., etc.? Trying to claim that this does not happen is another example of being less than honest.  You are trying to deny reality.  Many of us have seen or read of instances of this happening.  No one has ever said ALL Muslim men beat women. 

I have never seen anyone claim they rape their children, but I am sure you were just using that as hyperbole.

Sharia means stoning!  

No one has ever said Sharia means ONLY stoning, but for you to claim that Sharia does NOT EVER include stoning is, again, disingenuous.

And God help any poor muslimah on this thread who has the nerve to provide actual accepted definitions of these words that are being used against her.  

That is just it, you are NOT providing all of the accepted definitions of these words, only those accepted by YOU and the Muslims YOU associate with.  See above.

Ignored or told to get over it, her explanations denied like she is ignorant of the religion she practices.  

See above.

Every violent protester is the prime example of Islam, the other billion and a half Muslims apparently don't exist.

No one is saying this.







stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 7:18 PM
1 mom liked this

I know, I did notice that.  They got it in one line:

Jihad=holy war.  Right?  *sigh*


Quoting muslimahpj:

I love how they have ALL ignored what I posted about jihad in this thread and the other thread. Notice how not ONE of them even repsonded to it? Yet, they will keep bringing this bs into the discussions?

Quoting stacymomof2:

I don't think I'm getting my point through to you for whatever reason.  You seem content to believe everything you are told that fits your POV.  

The simplest answer to it is this:

You are taking some oppressive and paternalistic cultures and saying it all has to do with Islam.  Too bad that the oppression and paternalistic part existed long before Islam ever came along.  You prefer to tell me that I am somewhat naive and think that all Muslims are the same.  What I am REALLY saying is that there are people like this ALL OVER.  Don't post some stupid definition of Jihad posted from some online dictionary, I freaking KNOW what it means and what it means to Muslims.  It's not defined in one line.  And it DOES only mean a personal struggle.  However extremists are saying that their PERSONAL srtuggle includes struggling against people they disagree with.  You prefer to ignore that because it's easier to say it means something akin to "holy war."  You are wrong.  Wrong for every day Muslims and wrong in the way that terrorists use it to fuck with people's minds.  You just don't understand, you refuse to.  It's not MY personal definition or my husbands or just the "nice" Muslims.  It's the REAL definition which is used to make people committed to a political war, but make them PERSONALLY committed.

Terrorists may be "real Muslims," I don't know, that would be their own definition.  But they have no standing in Islam for what they do.  There is no jihad killing in the Quar'an.  None.  Look it up, read it if you don't believe me.

And no, I was told several times on this board that because I didn't stand against Islam, I was personally responsible for allowing child rape, furthermore I was told that I must be OK with MY OWN DAUGHTER being married to a pedophile because my husband is an Arabic Muslim.  I will PM you the link if you don't believe me.

What I am telling you is that if you personally prefer to believe the stuff you say here to be the character of the religion, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I can only conclude that you are CHOOSING what you want to believe based not on facts but on bias.  That is your issue, not mine.

I KNOW what Islam is about.  I don't need a bunch of half educated fear mongers to "educate" me.  I'm here to educate THEM in these threads.  Believe that.  I hate lies and BS.

You may wonder why a person who defends Islam so much is not actually a Muslim.  Well I will say that I have personal critiques of it, which I will not get into.  furthermore most of the serious disagreements I have with Islam are the same ones I have with Christianity.  To me they are two sides of the same coin.  

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

I'll tell you what, I'm not so much irritated as disgusted at the blatant bigotry being excused on this board these past couple of weeks.  I've seen you dissect an anti-Obama bullshit story in a heartbeat, yet this is beyond you, huh.  Jihad means terrorism!  Muslims are savages, animals, blow them into a parking lot!  They beat their women and rape their kids!  Sharia means stoning!  And God help any poor muslimah on this thread who has the nerve to provide actual accepted definitions of these words that are being used against her.  Ignored or told to get over it, her explanations denied like she is ignorant of the religion she practices.  Every violent protester is the prime example of Islam, the other billion and a half Muslims apparently don't exist.  Peace rally=anti-free speech, meanwhile lectures abound from people swearing that Muslims aren't speaking out.

 Meanwhile other people are whining about Piss Christ and Bill Maher.  Pure ignorance about society, about anything beyond their own tiny, pinpoint of a world where Fox and Breitbart are king, 'Merica can do no wrong, and free speech is only the speech they agree with.

Irritated is not the word.

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

Yes, futureshock.  Notice the quotes are around "the religious feelings of Muslims" and not "blasphemy laws are necessary."  Who knows what the guy actually said.  So Sean Hannity took some article from Breitbart and hyped it up?  Color me shocked.  But don't color me convinced.  

This comes from Breitbart.  Do you only like them when they talk smack about muslims, or are you a fan of Breitbart?  Funny you seem to disagree with them at other times, but when they talk about Muslims they are all good, huh?

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting stacymomof2:

Because all the articles that are saying it are from one source and just copy the same article.  Someone posted an article from the Arab newspaper that explained what the ralley (not really a protest but a meeting at a mosque) was about, it never mentioned free speech.  I myself lined the facebook event page, nothing about free speech in there.  None of the posters or event pages linked to the actual event say anything about blaspemy laws, they only talk about condemning violence.

No valid source has been shown to say anything about free speech laws.  A Muslim woman from the Dearborn area said the event was exactly as presented in the posters and facebook page, that it had speakers from other faiths and was a rally to support anti-violence and anti-islamophobia.  The only source for anything about free speech was a partial quote from a biased source that didn't actually say anything about free speech laws.

This seems to have stemmed from Breitbart and Sean Hannity, both of whom are known to misquote and make stuff up. 

It wasn't even a protest of the anti-Islam movie, it was people gathering to talk against violence and extremism.  Just like their event page, posters, and attendees said it was.

Quoting Moniker:

I'm sorry if I missed it but how did we come to the conclusion that this article was a hoax or a complete misrepresentation? I found several different articles all saying it was about free speech. If it's been debunked that's great but I'm wondering how anyone came to that conclusion? 


The only source for anything about free speech was a partial quote from a biased source that didn't actually say anything about free speech laws.

Is this the quote you are claiming has nothing to do with free speech?

rally organizer Tarek Baydoun says that so-called blasphemy laws are necessary to prevent speech that hurts the "the religious feelings of Muslims."



There is no need to get so irritated.  I am just trying to clarify the story.


I really like and respect you so I am going to be brutally honest with you. 

I am very sorry for making you feel angry, that was never my intention.

Here are my issues with this topic:

Jihad means terrorism!  

Terrorists who are Muslim are the ones who frequently use this word, Jihad.  They mean it in a way that represents:

ji·had

noun
1. a holy war undertaken as a sacred duty by Muslims.

For you to claim that it ONLY means a personal struggle (paraphrasing) is disingenuous at best.

Muslims are savages, animals, blow them into a parking lot!  

I have never, ever said ALL Muslims are savages.  However, some Muslims do blow up innocent people.  You may claim that they are not "really Muslims" but THEY think they are.  They are interpreting your Quran differently than you are, but it is the same book nonetheless.  I think it is dishonest to try to claim they are not following Islam just because they are following it in a radically different way than you are following it. 

They beat their women and rape their kids!  

Are you trying to say that women do not get beaten in many Muslim countries for showing ankles, going to school, getting raped, etc., etc.? Trying to claim that this does not happen is another example of being less than honest.  You are trying to deny reality.  Many of us have seen or read of instances of this happening.  No one has ever said ALL Muslim men beat women. 

I have never seen anyone claim they rape their children, but I am sure you were just using that as hyperbole.

Sharia means stoning!  

No one has ever said Sharia means ONLY stoning, but for you to claim that Sharia does NOT EVER include stoning is, again, disingenuous.

And God help any poor muslimah on this thread who has the nerve to provide actual accepted definitions of these words that are being used against her.  

That is just it, you are NOT providing all of the accepted definitions of these words, only those accepted by YOU and the Muslims YOU associate with.  See above.

Ignored or told to get over it, her explanations denied like she is ignorant of the religion she practices.  

See above.

Every violent protester is the prime example of Islam, the other billion and a half Muslims apparently don't exist.

No one is saying this.







LilyofPhilly
by Gold Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 10:00 PM
That's a question for far more knowledgeable people than me to answer. We have laws in place. They just don't always work.

Quoting futureshock:


Quoting LilyofPhilly:

"The government and Congress must lead this effort. Only when our leaders stand with us to stop the hate will the hate stop. Only then will we realize God's plan for us." LINK

I see no reference in this link to abridging free speech. This is what the quote is referring to:

Nowhere is this culture of evil more evident than in the raging Islamophobia sweeping the country. Day after day, week after week, Muslims and Sikhs are being harrased, their homes, cars and institutions ravaged, their lives taken, their family members hurt. They are being fired from their jobs for praying, forced to eat food their religion prohibits and dress in a way they find immodest. They watch on TV their countries of origin go up in flames and their religion of birth being maligned. This is the American dream gone badly wrong.







He is asking that the government support Muslims against harrassment and violence.

In what way, exactly, can the government help?

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LilyofPhilly
by Gold Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 10:11 PM
1 mom liked this
I am on the side of truth, not jumping to conclusions, and not spreading propaganda that divides us all.

Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:


Quoting LilyofPhilly:

"This kind of message should not be taken in the name of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech does not entitle these bigots to attack our holy prophet," Imam Hassan Al-Qizwini stated.





And that is for the courts to decide. If speech incites violence, then it is not protected by the first amendment. The Iman seems to be referencing this exception. He is stating his opinion that the video falls under such an exception. I don't personally agree, but I haven't seen the video either.

I cannot determine which side you're debating.

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