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If you believe a woman should have her husbands consent before getting an abortion... sfag

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Do you think a woman needs her husbands consent for any other reproductive or pregnancy decision?

How about to get her tubes tied?

What if she wants a natural, no-intervention birth? Do she need his permission?

What if she wants a c-section? Or, flip that. What if he wants her to get a c-section? There are compelling studies showing that c-section is safer for the baby.

Can he forbid an epidural? Or require one?

It's his baby too, right? Doesn't he get the right to say how it is delivered?

by on Oct. 2, 2012 at 6:08 PM
Replies (51-60):
ramonafrog
by Bronze Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 7:50 PM
Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly


Quoting paganbaby:

That's only if you think children are a punishment.

Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.



Quoting paganbaby:

An abortion is a loophole?

Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.





Quoting paganbaby:

*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.

Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.







Quoting paganbaby:

I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.

Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.

Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?





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rfhsure
by Bronze Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 7:50 PM
1 mom liked this

 uhm no, not really. How many men go out and get vasectomies without telling their wives? They don't have to sign papers for their wives's consent, so I don't think it's fair to say women should have to do that for their husband. Ideally, in a good, healthy marriage, the couple can talk about these issues in a healthy way and work things out together. The husband isn't the one who has to push the baby out and go through the pregnancy, why should he be the one to say what the woman should do with her body during a birth? I think the husband has no right to say whether or not his wife should get a C section, nor an epidural, and he has no right whatsoever to impede on a womans decision to have a completely natural birth. I don't know what studies you're talking about, but unless it's a situation that requires a c-section due to life and death, there is no compelling reason I have ever seen that a C-section is safer for the baby. It's a major surgery, it's risky for the mother, and our bodies were designed to give birth the way they were for a reason. We've been doing this for thousands of years. I have never seen a post regarding whether or not a man should have his wife's consent to do anything with his body, so why should a woman have her husbands? It's her body, it's her right. If my baby's father tried to tell me how I should do my birth I'd slap him right in the face. Fortunately he's been very supportive because he respects me and he respects my intelligence to know that I'll make responsible decisions for myself and the baby. That's the least a woman deserves from her husband.

DSamuels
by Gold Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 7:58 PM
1 mom liked this

Ideally? Yes. I don't think it's honest for either the husband or the wife to go through a procedure that ends child-bearing choices without the other one's knowledge. Imagine if you wanted another child and thought he did too only to find out he went and had a vasectomy without telling you. To me, that says he really doesn't care or respect you very much at all.

When our youngest started kindergarten I wanted another baby. Hubby was adamently against another child. I could have gone off the pill and gotten pregnant on purpose, but I respected him and our marriage too much to be dishonest like that. I was very upset and sad for a while, but deception never ever entered my mind. 

Quoting paganbaby:

That's good that you were on board with it. But do you think that all men should have permission from their wives to have one?

Quoting DSamuels:

Yep! Trying to remember how long ago it was, I'm thinking around 1995. We talked about it, we agreed on it, we went to the appointment together. I also took him to get it done, in the dr. office and drove him home. I had to sign paperwork saying I agreed to the procedure before it was done.

Quoting paganbaby:

Really? I've never heard of that.

Quoting DSamuels:

I had to sign paperwork saying I agreed before they would do my husband's vasectomy.





rfhsure
by Bronze Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 8:00 PM

 The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly? Women don't "force" men to take care of financial responsibility. In this case the woman is asking about a marriage. In a marriage, financial responsiblity has already been worked out between the couple, so especially in this circumstance, that's a statement that's not really relevant. it's a man's right to father his child - if the child is born. There's many cases where the guy will talk himself up and once the baby pops out he turns out to be a deadbeat. personal choice is personal choice. That's great that you would never get an abortion unless you're raped, but if you were in a situation where you still acted responsibly and were about to have a child you couldn't take care of or didn't want to have you may think differently. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have one. And the circumstances you're describing are very general and not applicable to every, if not most situations. Just as you wouldn't want to be forced into an abortion, many women don't want to be forced into carrying a child. That's the one topic the posts author left out: What if your husband asked you have an abortion? that would be terrible wouldn't it? So why should he have rights to ask any of those other things of a woman?

Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly


Quoting paganbaby:

That's only if you think children are a punishment.

Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.



Quoting paganbaby:

An abortion is a loophole?

Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.





Quoting paganbaby:

*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.

Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.







Quoting paganbaby:

I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.

Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.

Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?





 

paganbaby
by Teflon Don on Oct. 2, 2012 at 8:03 PM

Consequences = punishment. If you have sex and have the misfourtune to get pregnant, you have to go through an entire pregnancy, labor and give birth against your will. Then you have the difficult choice of raising the baby you aren't financially or emotionally prepared for or the heart breaking one of giving them away to someone else.

Screw your body, the pain, the stretch marks, the engorged breasts. Screw your mind and the children who are left with a mother who is either stretched past her limits, or emotionally bankrupt and stuck picking up the peices after giving her baby away.

Yeah taking away a womans choice has NOTHING to do with the unborn at all. It's all about punishing women who dare open their legs.

Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly


Quoting paganbaby:

That's only if you think children are a punishment.

Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.



Quoting paganbaby:

An abortion is a loophole?

Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.





Quoting paganbaby:

*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.

Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.







Quoting paganbaby:

I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.

Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.

Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?






Lilypie - Personal pictureLilypie Breastfeeding tickers

paganbaby
by Teflon Don on Oct. 2, 2012 at 8:08 PM

Great point! I was going to say something along those lines too :-)

And I love the next question. I wonder how she's going to answer...

The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly?

Quoting rfhsure:

 The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly? Women don't "force" men to take care of financial responsibility. In this case the woman is asking about a marriage. In a marriage, financial responsiblity has already been worked out between the couple, so especially in this circumstance, that's a statement that's not really relevant. it's a man's right to father his child - if the child is born. There's many cases where the guy will talk himself up and once the baby pops out he turns out to be a deadbeat. personal choice is personal choice. That's great that you would never get an abortion unless you're raped, but if you were in a situation where you still acted responsibly and were about to have a child you couldn't take care of or didn't want to have you may think differently. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have one. And the circumstances you're describing are very general and not applicable to every, if not most situations. Just as you wouldn't want to be forced into an abortion, many women don't want to be forced into carrying a child. That's the one topic the posts author left out: What if your husband asked you have an abortion? that would be terrible wouldn't it? So why should he have rights to ask any of those other things of a woman?

Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly


Quoting paganbaby:

That's only if you think children are a punishment.

Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.



Quoting paganbaby:

An abortion is a loophole?

Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.





Quoting paganbaby:

*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.

Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.







Quoting paganbaby:

I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.

Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.

Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?





 


Lilypie - Personal pictureLilypie Breastfeeding tickers

stringtheory
by Gold Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 8:10 PM
1 mom liked this
Your last two sentences: exactly. If it was about innocent life of the baby, it shouldn't matter if it was rape, same innocent life rule should apply. But it's about the woman's body, and pregnancy should not be punitive for sexual consent.

Quoting paganbaby:

Consequences = punishment. If you have sex and have the misfourtune to get pregnant, you have to go through an entire pregnancy, labor and give birth against your will. Then you have the difficult choice of raising the baby you aren't financially or emotionally prepared for or the heart breaking one of giving them away to someone else.

Screw your body, the pain, the stretch marks, the engorged breasts. Screw your mind and the children who are left with a mother who is either stretched past her limits, or emotionally bankrupt and stuck picking up the peices after giving her baby away.

Yeah taking away a womans choice has NOTHING to do with the unborn at all. It's all about punishing women who dare open their legs.

Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?

I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.

Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly




Quoting paganbaby:

That's only if you think children are a punishment.

Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.





Quoting paganbaby:

An abortion is a loophole?

Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.







Quoting paganbaby:

*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.

Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.









Quoting paganbaby:

I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.

Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.

Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?






Posted on CafeMom Mobile
TCgirlatheart
by TC on Oct. 2, 2012 at 8:11 PM
I think a couple should come to an agreement together, or in whatever way works for their relationship. I don't think any person should need permission from a spouse or partner for any legal medical procedure they want done to themselves.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
ramonafrog
by Bronze Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 8:32 PM
To begin with... You misread what I said. I said for me personally I could never have an abortion... For any reason. Period. My allowance for others in only in the case of rape where she truly had absolutely no role in conceiving the baby.
I maintain my PERSONAL OPINION on the topics at hand... And do not feel that what I apply to my personal set of morals is right for all people. If others disagree that my opinions do not suit them...fine. No sweat off my sack.
As for the rest of what you said... Meh... Again, personal opinion. And you are never going to convince me to change my opinions.


Quoting rfhsure:

 The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly? Women don't "force" men to take care of financial responsibility. In this case the woman is asking about a marriage. In a marriage, financial responsiblity has already been worked out between the couple, so especially in this circumstance, that's a statement that's not really relevant. it's a man's right to father his child - if the child is born. There's many cases where the guy will talk himself up and once the baby pops out he turns out to be a deadbeat. personal choice is personal choice. That's great that you would never get an abortion unless you're raped, but if you were in a situation where you still acted responsibly and were about to have a child you couldn't take care of or didn't want to have you may think differently. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have one. And the circumstances you're describing are very general and not applicable to every, if not most situations. Just as you wouldn't want to be forced into an abortion, many women don't want to be forced into carrying a child. That's the one topic the posts author left out: What if your husband asked you have an abortion? that would be terrible wouldn't it? So why should he have rights to ask any of those other things of a woman?


Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly



Quoting paganbaby:


That's only if you think children are a punishment.


Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.




Quoting paganbaby:


An abortion is a loophole?


Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.






Quoting paganbaby:


*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.


Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.








Quoting paganbaby:


I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.


Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.


Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?









 

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
LuvmyAiden
by Silver Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 8:32 PM
1 mom liked this

How a child is delievered is THEIR decision. Whether a child lives or dies is THEIR decision. Both parents should be involved in big decisions no matter who carries the child. Are you going to argue that a child on life support should ONLY have the plug pulled if mom says so and dad has no say? It is the same concept. Life and death is a bit different that how you choose to deliver or whether you get your tubes tied or not. By the way I thoroughly believe BOTH male and female spouses should consult the other before being sterilized. That is a family decision not just something that effects only one or the other.

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