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If you believe a woman should have her husbands consent before getting an abortion... sfag

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Do you think a woman needs her husbands consent for any other reproductive or pregnancy decision?

How about to get her tubes tied?

What if she wants a natural, no-intervention birth? Do she need his permission?

What if she wants a c-section? Or, flip that. What if he wants her to get a c-section? There are compelling studies showing that c-section is safer for the baby.

Can he forbid an epidural? Or require one?

It's his baby too, right? Doesn't he get the right to say how it is delivered?

by on Oct. 2, 2012 at 6:08 PM
Replies (71-80):
rfhsure
by Bronze Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:04 PM

 no one is asking you to change your opinion, but discussing abortion as a 'consequence loophole' doesn't make sense. Again, with the huge amount of different circumstances that arise, to say that it's a copout or a loophole is generalizing women who choose to have sex. Not all abortions are done by irresponsible women who have made irresponsible choices. So regardless of what your personal opinion is, the point is that it's wrong to categorize women in that way. Abortion does not mark a person as 'irresponsible', and it does not mean that the person acted irresponsibly. I agree that some obviously do, but unless you know the circumstance, it is wrong to call an abortion a consequence loophole as you put it. For someone who advocates the right to a personal opinion so strongly, it's ironic to me that you speak so judgementally about others who make a decision that is perfectly right for them.  you have conviction about your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. However, describing abortions and their motives the way you did comes off as very generalizing and judgemental. I many cases, abortion is in fact the most responsible option. I would never get an abortion either, I just couldn't do it. But in no way does that mean that someone who does is irresponsible or morally destitute. that's an unfair judgement. and it's contradicting to say abortion is okay as long as the woman didn't have a role in conceiving the baby. If that's the ony factor that deems it right or wrong, then that's quite a testament to how quickly you are to assume what the story behind all those other women's conceptions are.

Quoting ramonafrog:

To begin with... You misread what I said. I said for me personally I could never have an abortion... For any reason. Period. My allowance for others in only in the case of rape where she truly had absolutely no role in conceiving the baby.
I maintain my PERSONAL OPINION on the topics at hand... And do not feel that what I apply to my personal set of morals is right for all people. If others disagree that my opinions do not suit them...fine. No sweat off my sack.
As for the rest of what you said... Meh... Again, personal opinion. And you are never going to convince me to change my opinions.


Quoting rfhsure:

 The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly? Women don't "force" men to take care of financial responsibility. In this case the woman is asking about a marriage. In a marriage, financial responsiblity has already been worked out between the couple, so especially in this circumstance, that's a statement that's not really relevant. it's a man's right to father his child - if the child is born. There's many cases where the guy will talk himself up and once the baby pops out he turns out to be a deadbeat. personal choice is personal choice. That's great that you would never get an abortion unless you're raped, but if you were in a situation where you still acted responsibly and were about to have a child you couldn't take care of or didn't want to have you may think differently. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have one. And the circumstances you're describing are very general and not applicable to every, if not most situations. Just as you wouldn't want to be forced into an abortion, many women don't want to be forced into carrying a child. That's the one topic the posts author left out: What if your husband asked you have an abortion? that would be terrible wouldn't it? So why should he have rights to ask any of those other things of a woman?


Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly



Quoting paganbaby:


That's only if you think children are a punishment.


Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.




Quoting paganbaby:


An abortion is a loophole?


Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.






Quoting paganbaby:


*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.


Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.








Quoting paganbaby:


I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.


Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.


Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?









 

 

parentalrights1
by on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:05 PM
1 mom liked this

And with everyone arguing about the fathers rights or parents rights in general to be able to walk away without any financial obligation, I have one thing to say to that.

When the baby is inside another person's body dependant on them physically to survive, then it's up to the person carrying them. When a child is born however, it's no longer about what's fair to the parents. I don't care what anyone has to cry about as far as what "THAT parent got to do" It's about the child's rights at that point. Quit bitching that mom got to do this or the dad got to do that so the other parent should be able to do ____. The child's rights supercede the parent's at that point and it's all about them. Period. Either put it up for adoption or both need to be financially responsible.

sweet-a-kins
by Emerald Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:06 PM
I got my tubes tied, my husband didnt have to sign anything

Quoting DSamuels:

I had to sign paperwork saying I agreed before they would do my husband's vasectomy.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
stringtheory
by Gold Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:06 PM
Yes. A pregnancy is always a medical condition, and as such, the impregnated owe NO ONE an explanation for her decisions regarding that condition.

Quoting parentalrights1:

I think if the man vetoes the decision to abort and the woman dies during labor, then he should be offered up for execution too.

The idea that a man can essentially tell a woman that she has to use her body as an incubator and endure all the physical and emotional pain that comes with pregnancy while he just sits on the side doing nothing but being a dictator is completely asinine.

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Godgaveme4
by Platinum Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:08 PM

 I believe that the father of a child should have a say in the birth and raising of said child. 

Also, my husband and i discuss all medical procedures or medication.  I do not make those deciusions on my own and niether does he.  It is just our relationship is.

celestegood
by Silver Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM

 Well, I think to an extent, he should be involved.  BUT, I am not that happy with the idea they should be able to make a woman do as he wishes.

Because some men are abusive, and that's when things can get bad.

DSamuels
by Gold Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM

Okay. What's your point? 

When my husband had his vasectomy I did have to sign. 

Quoting sweet-a-kins:

I got my tubes tied, my husband didnt have to sign anything

Quoting DSamuels:

I had to sign paperwork saying I agreed before they would do my husband's vasectomy.


ramonafrog
by Bronze Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:11 PM
2 equations...
Consensual sex
Forced sex

When you have consensual sex you assume the risk of becoming pregnant. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Sure people use birth control. But there is no 100%, absolute way to prevent pregnancy other than abstinence. Period. Sorry if you disagree or my opinion offends you.


Quoting rfhsure:

 no one is asking you to change your opinion, but discussing abortion as a 'consequence loophole' doesn't make sense. Again, with the huge amount of different circumstances that arise, to say that it's a copout or a loophole is generalizing women who choose to have sex. Not all abortions are done by irresponsible women who have made irresponsible choices. So regardless of what your personal opinion is, the point is that it's wrong to categorize women in that way. Abortion does not mark a person as 'irresponsible', and it does not mean that the person acted irresponsibly. I agree that some obviously do, but unless you know the circumstance, it is wrong to call an abortion a consequence loophole as you put it. For someone who advocates the right to a personal opinion so strongly, it's ironic to me that you speak so judgementally about others who make a decision that is perfectly right for them.  you have conviction about your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. However, describing abortions and their motives the way you did comes off as very generalizing and judgemental. I many cases, abortion is in fact the most responsible option. I would never get an abortion either, I just couldn't do it. But in no way does that mean that someone who does is irresponsible or morally destitute. that's an unfair judgement. and it's contradicting to say abortion is okay as long as the woman didn't have a role in conceiving the baby. If that's the ony factor that deems it right or wrong, then that's quite a testament to how quickly you are to assume what the story behind all those other women's conceptions are.


Quoting ramonafrog:

To begin with... You misread what I said. I said for me personally I could never have an abortion... For any reason. Period. My allowance for others in only in the case of rape where she truly had absolutely no role in conceiving the baby.
I maintain my PERSONAL OPINION on the topics at hand... And do not feel that what I apply to my personal set of morals is right for all people. If others disagree that my opinions do not suit them...fine. No sweat off my sack.
As for the rest of what you said... Meh... Again, personal opinion. And you are never going to convince me to change my opinions.



Quoting rfhsure:


 The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly? Women don't "force" men to take care of financial responsibility. In this case the woman is asking about a marriage. In a marriage, financial responsiblity has already been worked out between the couple, so especially in this circumstance, that's a statement that's not really relevant. it's a man's right to father his child - if the child is born. There's many cases where the guy will talk himself up and once the baby pops out he turns out to be a deadbeat. personal choice is personal choice. That's great that you would never get an abortion unless you're raped, but if you were in a situation where you still acted responsibly and were about to have a child you couldn't take care of or didn't want to have you may think differently. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have one. And the circumstances you're describing are very general and not applicable to every, if not most situations. Just as you wouldn't want to be forced into an abortion, many women don't want to be forced into carrying a child. That's the one topic the posts author left out: What if your husband asked you have an abortion? that would be terrible wouldn't it? So why should he have rights to ask any of those other things of a woman?



Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly




Quoting paganbaby:



That's only if you think children are a punishment.



Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.





Quoting paganbaby:



An abortion is a loophole?



Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.







Quoting paganbaby:



*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.



Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.









Quoting paganbaby:



I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.



Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.



Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?














 


 

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
MumaSue
by Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:11 PM

Exactly this ... he would never go against what I wished when it came to the birth. He would put in his opinion but as it was my body giving birth it was up to me. His paramedic training was very useful though and gave me some great insights and helped me decide a few things.

Quoting _Kissy_:

We decide everything as a couple but the final decision is/was mine.


rfhsure
by Bronze Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:19 PM
1 mom liked this

 So your logic is....if someone is using birth control, even multiple forms, which is designed to prevent pregnancy, she is thus being irresponsible because she could be 1 of 100 women who gets pregnant despite the use of proper birth control? what kind of logic is that? You're basically saying that all women who are sexually active outside of a marriage are inherently responsible. Do you also disagree with the use of birth control then? Do you believe that it is wrong for women who aren't married to have sex? Unless you were and are consistently abstinent before marriage if you are married, then you are then calling yourself irresponsible. And if you are in fact an advocate of complete and total abstinence despite the use of birth control, then you are basically calling anyone who doesn't do things the way that you do irresponsible. Am I offended? No, though you sound almost as if you would be proud if people were. I'm mostly just surprised. I've never heard a woman generalize women so poorly before. I'm just baffled by that logic altogether....so by your standards, responsible sex is only responsible if it's not happening at all unless you want to get pregnant?

Quoting ramonafrog:

2 equations...
Consensual sex
Forced sex

When you have consensual sex you assume the risk of becoming pregnant. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Sure people use birth control. But there is no 100%, absolute way to prevent pregnancy other than abstinence. Period. Sorry if you disagree or my opinion offends you.


Quoting rfhsure:

 no one is asking you to change your opinion, but discussing abortion as a 'consequence loophole' doesn't make sense. Again, with the huge amount of different circumstances that arise, to say that it's a copout or a loophole is generalizing women who choose to have sex. Not all abortions are done by irresponsible women who have made irresponsible choices. So regardless of what your personal opinion is, the point is that it's wrong to categorize women in that way. Abortion does not mark a person as 'irresponsible', and it does not mean that the person acted irresponsibly. I agree that some obviously do, but unless you know the circumstance, it is wrong to call an abortion a consequence loophole as you put it. For someone who advocates the right to a personal opinion so strongly, it's ironic to me that you speak so judgementally about others who make a decision that is perfectly right for them.  you have conviction about your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. However, describing abortions and their motives the way you did comes off as very generalizing and judgemental. I many cases, abortion is in fact the most responsible option. I would never get an abortion either, I just couldn't do it. But in no way does that mean that someone who does is irresponsible or morally destitute. that's an unfair judgement. and it's contradicting to say abortion is okay as long as the woman didn't have a role in conceiving the baby. If that's the ony factor that deems it right or wrong, then that's quite a testament to how quickly you are to assume what the story behind all those other women's conceptions are.


Quoting ramonafrog:

To begin with... You misread what I said. I said for me personally I could never have an abortion... For any reason. Period. My allowance for others in only in the case of rape where she truly had absolutely no role in conceiving the baby.
I maintain my PERSONAL OPINION on the topics at hand... And do not feel that what I apply to my personal set of morals is right for all people. If others disagree that my opinions do not suit them...fine. No sweat off my sack.
As for the rest of what you said... Meh... Again, personal opinion. And you are never going to convince me to change my opinions.



Quoting rfhsure:


 The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly? Women don't "force" men to take care of financial responsibility. In this case the woman is asking about a marriage. In a marriage, financial responsiblity has already been worked out between the couple, so especially in this circumstance, that's a statement that's not really relevant. it's a man's right to father his child - if the child is born. There's many cases where the guy will talk himself up and once the baby pops out he turns out to be a deadbeat. personal choice is personal choice. That's great that you would never get an abortion unless you're raped, but if you were in a situation where you still acted responsibly and were about to have a child you couldn't take care of or didn't want to have you may think differently. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have one. And the circumstances you're describing are very general and not applicable to every, if not most situations. Just as you wouldn't want to be forced into an abortion, many women don't want to be forced into carrying a child. That's the one topic the posts author left out: What if your husband asked you have an abortion? that would be terrible wouldn't it? So why should he have rights to ask any of those other things of a woman?



Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly




Quoting paganbaby:



That's only if you think children are a punishment.



Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.





Quoting paganbaby:



An abortion is a loophole?



Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.







Quoting paganbaby:



*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.



Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.









Quoting paganbaby:



I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.



Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.



Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?














 


 

 

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