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If you believe a woman should have her husbands consent before getting an abortion... sfag

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Do you think a woman needs her husbands consent for any other reproductive or pregnancy decision?

How about to get her tubes tied?

What if she wants a natural, no-intervention birth? Do she need his permission?

What if she wants a c-section? Or, flip that. What if he wants her to get a c-section? There are compelling studies showing that c-section is safer for the baby.

Can he forbid an epidural? Or require one?

It's his baby too, right? Doesn't he get the right to say how it is delivered?

by on Oct. 2, 2012 at 6:08 PM
Replies (81-90):
lga1965
by on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:21 PM
1 mom liked this

 A wife has to discuss abortion with her husband . There's no way a marriage can survive without both people making decisions together and THIS is a really important issue. Same for getting tubes ties or a vasectomy. These are important issues that both husband and wife must decide together.

The other stuff about childbirth is not really as important. How many men would care about natural birth or an epidural,etc. LOL.

 A C-Section is a decision theDoctor makes during the later stages of the pregnancy or based on how the labor progresses.  Its not a choice. Husbands don't think about those things.They just want the kid to be healthy and his wife to make it through without complications, I don't know any men who get as obsessed about birth plans as the women here at CM.  I didnt have a "birth plan"with each of my three deliveries.. I just went into the hospital with the goal being delivering  a healthy baby. Birth plans? LOL. You're in there for a few hours, you check out of the hospital a few days later and THEN the really important things happen.You raise your baby.

ramonafrog
by Bronze Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:22 PM
You're putting way too many words in my mouth and adding your own "logic" to what I never said.

Quoting rfhsure:

 So your logic is....if someone is using birth control, even multiple forms, which is designed to prevent pregnancy, she is thus being irresponsible because she could be 1 of 100 women who gets pregnant despite the use of proper birth control? what kind of logic is that? You're basically saying that all women who are sexually active outside of a marriage are inherently responsible. Do you also disagree with the use of birth control then? Do you believe that it is wrong for women who aren't married to have sex? Unless you were and are consistently abstinent before marriage if you are married, then you are then calling yourself irresponsible. And if you are in fact an advocate of complete and total abstinence despite the use of birth control, then you are basically calling anyone who doesn't do things the way that you do irresponsible. Am I offended? No, though you sound almost as if you would be proud if people were. I'm mostly just surprised. I've never heard a woman generalize women so poorly before. I'm just baffled by that logic altogether....so by your standards, responsible sex is only responsible if it's not happening at all unless you want to get pregnant?


Quoting ramonafrog:

2 equations...
Consensual sex
Forced sex

When you have consensual sex you assume the risk of becoming pregnant. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Sure people use birth control. But there is no 100%, absolute way to prevent pregnancy other than abstinence. Period. Sorry if you disagree or my opinion offends you.



Quoting rfhsure:


 no one is asking you to change your opinion, but discussing abortion as a 'consequence loophole' doesn't make sense. Again, with the huge amount of different circumstances that arise, to say that it's a copout or a loophole is generalizing women who choose to have sex. Not all abortions are done by irresponsible women who have made irresponsible choices. So regardless of what your personal opinion is, the point is that it's wrong to categorize women in that way. Abortion does not mark a person as 'irresponsible', and it does not mean that the person acted irresponsibly. I agree that some obviously do, but unless you know the circumstance, it is wrong to call an abortion a consequence loophole as you put it. For someone who advocates the right to a personal opinion so strongly, it's ironic to me that you speak so judgementally about others who make a decision that is perfectly right for them.  you have conviction about your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. However, describing abortions and their motives the way you did comes off as very generalizing and judgemental. I many cases, abortion is in fact the most responsible option. I would never get an abortion either, I just couldn't do it. But in no way does that mean that someone who does is irresponsible or morally destitute. that's an unfair judgement. and it's contradicting to say abortion is okay as long as the woman didn't have a role in conceiving the baby. If that's the ony factor that deems it right or wrong, then that's quite a testament to how quickly you are to assume what the story behind all those other women's conceptions are.



Quoting ramonafrog:

To begin with... You misread what I said. I said for me personally I could never have an abortion... For any reason. Period. My allowance for others in only in the case of rape where she truly had absolutely no role in conceiving the baby.
I maintain my PERSONAL OPINION on the topics at hand... And do not feel that what I apply to my personal set of morals is right for all people. If others disagree that my opinions do not suit them...fine. No sweat off my sack.
As for the rest of what you said... Meh... Again, personal opinion. And you are never going to convince me to change my opinions.




Quoting rfhsure:



 The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly? Women don't "force" men to take care of financial responsibility. In this case the woman is asking about a marriage. In a marriage, financial responsiblity has already been worked out between the couple, so especially in this circumstance, that's a statement that's not really relevant. it's a man's right to father his child - if the child is born. There's many cases where the guy will talk himself up and once the baby pops out he turns out to be a deadbeat. personal choice is personal choice. That's great that you would never get an abortion unless you're raped, but if you were in a situation where you still acted responsibly and were about to have a child you couldn't take care of or didn't want to have you may think differently. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have one. And the circumstances you're describing are very general and not applicable to every, if not most situations. Just as you wouldn't want to be forced into an abortion, many women don't want to be forced into carrying a child. That's the one topic the posts author left out: What if your husband asked you have an abortion? that would be terrible wouldn't it? So why should he have rights to ask any of those other things of a woman?




Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly





Quoting paganbaby:




That's only if you think children are a punishment.




Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.






Quoting paganbaby:




An abortion is a loophole?




Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.








Quoting paganbaby:




*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.




Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.










Quoting paganbaby:




I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.




Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.




Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?



















 



 


 

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FromAtoZ
by AllieCat on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:26 PM


Quoting lga1965:

 A wife has to discuss abortion with her husband . There's no way a marriage can survive without both people making decisions together and THIS is a really important issue. Same for getting tubes ties or a vasectomy. These are important issues that both husband and wife must decide together.

The other stuff about childbirth is not really as important. How many men would care about natural birth or an epidural,etc. LOL.

 A C-Section is a decision theDoctor makes during the later stages of the pregnancy or based on how the labor progresses.  Its not a choice. Husbands don't think about those things.They just want the kid to be healthy and his wife to make it through without complications, I don't know any men who get as obsessed about birth plans as the women here at CM.  I didnt have a "birth plan"with each of my three deliveries.. I just went into the hospital with the goal being delivering  a healthy baby. Birth plans? LOL. You're in there for a few hours, you check out of the hospital a few days later and THEN the really important things happen.You raise your baby.

Ah, but more women are making the choie to have a C-Section.  They want their child born on a certain date.  Others have circumstances that they feel warrant the child being born on a specific date.  All kinds of reasons.

In my opinion, any man who would attempt to make any final decision where a woman's body is concerned, is doing out of control and manipulation.  

"A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song." ~ Maya Angelou

rfhsure
by Silver Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:28 PM

 Then clarify, because you made yourself pretty clear that consensual sex and forced sex is purely black and white. I was asking you if you disagree with birth control, you didn't answer. I asked if you feel it's wrong for unmarried women to have sex, you didn't say. You said yourself that the only way to prevent pregnancy is abstinence, so therefore making the choice to have sex means you are choosing to risk getting pregnant, which I had specifically asked for clarification if this includes women who are using preventative measures against pregnancy, to which you then replied that there are two 'equations' - consensual and nonconsensual sex. So what words did I put in your mouth? If I got the wrong impression from what you said, it's because you didn't make yourself clear enough, not because I have a problem with interpretation. so if that's not what you believe, then please clarify. Is a women is using birth control, does that then still make her 'irresponsible' for getting pregnant because she had sex? Because that is, in so many words what you said. so is that what you meant or not?

Quoting ramonafrog:

You're putting way too many words in my mouth and adding your own "logic" to what I never said.

Quoting rfhsure:

 So your logic is....if someone is using birth control, even multiple forms, which is designed to prevent pregnancy, she is thus being irresponsible because she could be 1 of 100 women who gets pregnant despite the use of proper birth control? what kind of logic is that? You're basically saying that all women who are sexually active outside of a marriage are inherently responsible. Do you also disagree with the use of birth control then? Do you believe that it is wrong for women who aren't married to have sex? Unless you were and are consistently abstinent before marriage if you are married, then you are then calling yourself irresponsible. And if you are in fact an advocate of complete and total abstinence despite the use of birth control, then you are basically calling anyone who doesn't do things the way that you do irresponsible. Am I offended? No, though you sound almost as if you would be proud if people were. I'm mostly just surprised. I've never heard a woman generalize women so poorly before. I'm just baffled by that logic altogether....so by your standards, responsible sex is only responsible if it's not happening at all unless you want to get pregnant?


Quoting ramonafrog:

2 equations...
Consensual sex
Forced sex

When you have consensual sex you assume the risk of becoming pregnant. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Sure people use birth control. But there is no 100%, absolute way to prevent pregnancy other than abstinence. Period. Sorry if you disagree or my opinion offends you.



Quoting rfhsure:


 no one is asking you to change your opinion, but discussing abortion as a 'consequence loophole' doesn't make sense. Again, with the huge amount of different circumstances that arise, to say that it's a copout or a loophole is generalizing women who choose to have sex. Not all abortions are done by irresponsible women who have made irresponsible choices. So regardless of what your personal opinion is, the point is that it's wrong to categorize women in that way. Abortion does not mark a person as 'irresponsible', and it does not mean that the person acted irresponsibly. I agree that some obviously do, but unless you know the circumstance, it is wrong to call an abortion a consequence loophole as you put it. For someone who advocates the right to a personal opinion so strongly, it's ironic to me that you speak so judgementally about others who make a decision that is perfectly right for them.  you have conviction about your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. However, describing abortions and their motives the way you did comes off as very generalizing and judgemental. I many cases, abortion is in fact the most responsible option. I would never get an abortion either, I just couldn't do it. But in no way does that mean that someone who does is irresponsible or morally destitute. that's an unfair judgement. and it's contradicting to say abortion is okay as long as the woman didn't have a role in conceiving the baby. If that's the ony factor that deems it right or wrong, then that's quite a testament to how quickly you are to assume what the story behind all those other women's conceptions are.



Quoting ramonafrog:

To begin with... You misread what I said. I said for me personally I could never have an abortion... For any reason. Period. My allowance for others in only in the case of rape where she truly had absolutely no role in conceiving the baby.
I maintain my PERSONAL OPINION on the topics at hand... And do not feel that what I apply to my personal set of morals is right for all people. If others disagree that my opinions do not suit them...fine. No sweat off my sack.
As for the rest of what you said... Meh... Again, personal opinion. And you are never going to convince me to change my opinions.




Quoting rfhsure:



 The argument that abortion is so wrong and you're murdering a baby is lost on me when a person says, 'well if it's rape then it's fine.' You're either in or your out. I've known people who have gotten pregnant while on birth control, who have had condoms break and use plan B. So you're saying that because they had sex they have to keep a child they don't want, even when acting responsibly? Women don't "force" men to take care of financial responsibility. In this case the woman is asking about a marriage. In a marriage, financial responsiblity has already been worked out between the couple, so especially in this circumstance, that's a statement that's not really relevant. it's a man's right to father his child - if the child is born. There's many cases where the guy will talk himself up and once the baby pops out he turns out to be a deadbeat. personal choice is personal choice. That's great that you would never get an abortion unless you're raped, but if you were in a situation where you still acted responsibly and were about to have a child you couldn't take care of or didn't want to have you may think differently. Just because you wouldn't have an abortion doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have one. And the circumstances you're describing are very general and not applicable to every, if not most situations. Just as you wouldn't want to be forced into an abortion, many women don't want to be forced into carrying a child. That's the one topic the posts author left out: What if your husband asked you have an abortion? that would be terrible wouldn't it? So why should he have rights to ask any of those other things of a woman?




Quoting ramonafrog:

Your logic?
I would never abort. Seriously... Under no circumstance. And the only one I find acceptable for others is in the case of rape.
Therefore not facing the consequences of your actions (choices, not forced) is a lack of personal responsibility....or, in your words, a way out... Which is considered a loophole. I do not think kids are punishment. I think people punish themselves and leave the door open for unecessary "problems" by acting irresponsibly





Quoting paganbaby:




That's only if you think children are a punishment.




Quoting ramonafrog:

A consequence loophole.






Quoting paganbaby:




An abortion is a loophole?




Quoting ramonafrog:

Loopholes... Gotta love em.








Quoting paganbaby:




*Shrugs* That may be true but there are ways out of those "consequences" and many woman chose to go that route. Now if my husband/boyfriend disagrees with what I've done then he doesn't have to stay with me. Either way, It's my choice, not his.




Quoting ramonafrog:

Sorry, I really don't want to get into any drama or debate... But, I think if a person has sex they know the possible consequence. Personal responsibility has become scarce. It's sad.










Quoting paganbaby:




I'm not an incubator. There's no reason why I should be forced to endure an pregnancy just so he can be a father. If I decided to continue with the pregnancy and chose adoption instead, that would be a different story. He could fight for his rights as a father then. But only then.




Btw, I completely disagree with the child support. Any parent should be able to walk away ie:sign away their rights, with no financial obligation.




Quoting ramonafrog:

I think it's a man's right to father his child. Women force men to be financially responsible (child support) when they don't want to be fathers... Why do women always have the final say so?



















 



 


 

 

lga1965
by on Oct. 2, 2012 at 9:36 PM

 

Quoting FromAtoZ:


Quoting lga1965:

 A wife has to discuss abortion with her husband . There's no way a marriage can survive without both people making decisions together and THIS is a really important issue. Same for getting tubes ties or a vasectomy. These are important issues that both husband and wife must decide together.

The other stuff about childbirth is not really as important. How many men would care about natural birth or an epidural,etc. LOL.

 A C-Section is a decision theDoctor makes during the later stages of the pregnancy or based on how the labor progresses.  Its not a choice. Husbands don't think about those things.They just want the kid to be healthy and his wife to make it through without complications, I don't know any men who get as obsessed about birth plans as the women here at CM.  I didnt have a "birth plan"with each of my three deliveries.. I just went into the hospital with the goal being delivering  a healthy baby. Birth plans? LOL. You're in there for a few hours, you check out of the hospital a few days later and THEN the really important things happen.You raise your baby.

Ah, but more women are making the choie to have a C-Section.  They want their child born on a certain date.  Others have circumstances that they feel warrant the child being born on a specific date.  All kinds of reasons.

In my opinion, any man who would attempt to make any final decision where a woman's body is concerned, is doing out of control and manipulation.  

 I think deciding to have a C-section just for your own reasons, such as convenience, is really selfish and even dangerous. C-sections are major surgery. Its not a walk in the park. A vaginal delivery is natural and you recover quickly. And babies are healthier too.

I don't think men really want to control HOW their wives deliver a baby! LOL.

But I suppose there are a few other circumstances in a marriage where its a woman's choice. And if the marriage is ending or if there is no marriage, then it is all her choice.

jlo1313
by Silver Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 10:01 PM

I believe in discussing the issues, but I believe that the final say about what I do with my body, especially my reproductive organs, is my decision and same with him.  

LauraKW
by "Dude!" on Oct. 2, 2012 at 10:10 PM
What she said 100%.

Quoting jlo1313:

I believe in discussing the issues, but I believe that the final say about what I do with my body, especially my reproductive organs, is my decision and same with him.  

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AdrianneHill
by Platinum Member on Oct. 2, 2012 at 10:19 PM
Yeah.

Quoting LauraKW:

What she said 100%.



Quoting jlo1313:

I believe in discussing the issues, but I believe that the final say about what I do with my body, especially my reproductive organs, is my decision and same with him.  

Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Sat.Wed
by Bronze Member on Oct. 3, 2012 at 12:55 AM
Sad thing? the hospital I work at doesnt allow VBACs once you have a section thats the ONLY way (some women litterally wait until their waters break before presenting at the hospital) like I said my daughters was a c-section because of where her lesion was and the thin covering it had over it and her hydrocephlous etc... my sons was suppsoe to be get an epidural etc... but I had to have him NO meds cause I dialated to quickly and once they broke my water ds was litterally hot tailin it out lol


Quoting kailu1835:

SB - is that Spina Bifida?

My 3rd baby decided to turn tranverse in the middle of early labor after my water had broken, and they won't manually flip a baby after waters have broken.  I got another 2 hours after the decision was made, just to try and let him flip back, but after another ultrasound showing he was still sideways, I went in for the section.

What frustrates me is when people will jump to sections, even when there is no danger, and then we wonder why our section rate is 1 in 3 women?!  Even repeat sections (which a 1VBAC is just as safe as 0VBAC, but 2 sections and your risk is a lot higher) should be done after a trial of labor, for the safety of the baby.  Ugh.  I go in circles on this topic lol

Quoting Sat.Wed:

Agreed only reason I had c-section with dd is because of her SB had ds natural lol





Quoting kailu1835:

By the way, there are absolutely ZERO credible studies proving cesereans safer for any baby or mother that is not already in danger. Natural childbirth always has been and always will be the safest way to give birth for both mother and baby, provided there are no immediate health concerns for either.




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p1r4t3cr0pc1rcl
by on Oct. 3, 2012 at 12:58 AM

Nope. He has no say. He does not know her pain, or what she has to go through because he does not have the equipment to  do that. 

Unless he is going to be willing to financially take care of the child and let the mother walk away, as many males do, he has no say. 

Hell, So is against abortion for the most part. But he knows that if I were to become pregnant right now, I would abort and not even ask him. 

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