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Schwarzenegger admits to admiring Hitler’s speaking skills in new memoir

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Arnold Schwarzenegger has long combated rumors alleging that he praised Adolf Hitler. Inhis new autobiography, "Total Recall," the former California governor admits to praising the Nazi leaders speaking style but says he always opposed Hitler's policies.

"I philosophized that only a few men are born to lead, while the rest of humanity is born to follow, and went from that into discussing history's great conquerors and dictators," Schwarzenegger writes in his book. "I admired Hitler's speaking ability, though not what he did with it."

Speculation and criticism over Schwarzenegger's 1977 seminal bodybuilding film, "Pumping Iron." The Hitler exchange was ultimately edited out of the film by director George Butler. While acknowledging the exchange, Schwarzenegger says it was essentially a ruse often employed by the actor, 65, to draw attention to himself.

"Coming up with outrageous things to say was easy because I was always thinking them to keep myself entertained," he writes in Total Recall.

Nonetheless, the Schwarzenegger camp takes issue with the way the quote has been framed by theNew York Daily News, in a story titled "Arnold Schwarzenegger admits he once expressed admiration for Adolf Hitler after publicly denying it for years."

"This is a totally misleading and irresponsible headline," Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Ashley Robinson said in a statement provided to Yahoo News. "The governor wrote about something he said over 30 years ago that was reported countless times during his election for governor, that he had strong oratory skills that were abused for power. The headline is a shameless, reprehensible attempt by a tabloid to get attention and web traffic."

During Schwarzenegger's first run for governor of California in 2003, Butler quoted the actor in a book proposal, citing a transcript from "Pumping Iron," during which he asked Schwarzenegger to list his heroes.

"I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education, up to power," Schwarzenegger reportedly said at the time.

However, the Schwarzenegger election campaign pointed out in 2003 that the full transcript of Schwarzenegger's quote shows he clearly distanced himself from any alleged "admiration" of the Nazi dictator.

"Yes, in Germany they used power and authority but it was used in the wrong way," Schwarzenegger said, according to Butler. "But it was misused on the power. First, it started having, I mean, getting Germany out of the great recession and having everybody jobs and so on and then it was just misused. And they said, let's take this country, and so on. That's bad."

Schwarzenegger has been actively involved with pro-Jewish and pro-Israel groups over the years, including the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/schwarzenegger-admits-expressing-admiration-hitler-memoir-190128101.html

by on Oct. 8, 2012 at 10:08 PM
Replies (171-180):
romalove
by Roma on Oct. 10, 2012 at 6:22 AM

 

Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Because they are true and if you took 30 seconds to actually listen to what I'm saying and think of what you would do in their position you would see why it makes sense. So again. Hypothetically if that makes you feel better, what would you do once you realised a monster ran your country? Given everything you know to be true about the way Hitler handled those who opposed him.


Quoting romalove:

Why do I have to presuppose your particular set of facts?



Quoting Lizard_Lina:

No you didn't. Probably because you don't have a good answer. But ill ask it again anyway.





For the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?






Quoting romalove:

 




Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Still evading the question.....





Quoting romalove:




 





Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Of course there was, because of Hitler. When you see a Jew hating skinhead who is usually associated? Hitler. He made hating Jews a very real thing and not just some tasteless joke over beers. If you don't take his power of speech and persuasion as a very real thing then clearly you are lost. There are people that work in the white house today who train Obama how to speak. How to inflection his voice. How to move his hands. All done with studies containing major influences in how Hitler used to address his country. So far the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?










 






 I actually read Shirer's book, but I read it sooo long ago.  I think it was like 30 years ago.  Anyway, this piece sort of says what Shirer says, but because it is lacking the context that Shirer placed the information, it isn't completely accurate in determining what Germans were thinking or feeling at the time.






I'm gonna go with those figures though.  A third or more of the populace was willing to elect Hitler. 






We can look backwards and say that the treaties that were rendered after WWI, which left Germany in such poor shape both economically and emotionally, should not have been crafted as they were, as it allowed the rise of someone to "rescue" the Germans and their national pride, even at the expense of a population of their citizenry. 






We can say lots of things.  When you ask "what should the Germans have done", you are claiming that they couldn't do anything.  Do you also claim that there wasn't a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany?  I know for sure that there was anti-Semitism all over Europe.  There were pogroms, Jews were ghettoised, they were chased from country to country. 






There is a reason that Hitler could get away with what he did in Germany.






 OK, I have to stop you right here.





Hitler did NOT make hating Jews "a very real thing and not some tasteless joke over beers".  There was very real hatred of Jews, not just in Germany, but all over Europe, and not for a short period of time, but FOREVER.





 I answered your question.  Your biases are showing.



 My original statement that you found highly offensive was that there were Germans (and others around the world) who knew what was happening and did nothing.

We are now far afield where the discussion isn't if that statement is true or not (after you cursed me, called me stupid and a liar) but to "what should those have known done" to prove to me that they couldn't do anything.

Now, that may be true and it may not be true.  I'm not a German in Germany in the 1930's.  I'm not living under a terrifying dictatorship.  I don't really have an answer. 

I don't think it matters, though, in terms of what I originally said.  Some people wanted to help Jews and did, hiding them, taking them into their families, or helping them escape.  Others turned those people in for rewards and helped destroy Jews.  Some people weren't anti-Semitic, but there were a whole bunch others that were. 

Saying that there were Germans (and others) who knew what was happening and did nothing, or acknowledging that there were people in Germany and Europe who agreed with Hitler is not an indictment of all Germans.  It's what it is.

Lizard_Lina
by Silver Member on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:17 AM
You just proved my point. You don't have an answer. Because all I have said is the only answer. You would have kept your head down and done nothing. No great uprisal. No great rebellion. No great escape. You would have done exactly what they had the power to do. Nothing. I'm done with you.

Quoting romalove:

 


Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Because they are true and if you took 30 seconds to actually listen to what I'm saying and think of what you would do in their position you would see why it makes sense. So again. Hypothetically if that makes you feel better, what would you do once you realised a monster ran your country? Given everything you know to be true about the way Hitler handled those who opposed him.



Quoting romalove:

Why do I have to presuppose your particular set of facts?




Quoting Lizard_Lina:

No you didn't. Probably because you don't have a good answer. But ill ask it again anyway.





For the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?







Quoting romalove:


 





Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Still evading the question.....






Quoting romalove:





 






Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Of course there was, because of Hitler. When you see a Jew hating skinhead who is usually associated? Hitler. He made hating Jews a very real thing and not just some tasteless joke over beers. If you don't take his power of speech and persuasion as a very real thing then clearly you are lost. There are people that work in the white house today who train Obama how to speak. How to inflection his voice. How to move his hands. All done with studies containing major influences in how Hitler used to address his country. So far the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?












 







 I actually read Shirer's book, but I read it sooo long ago.  I think it was like 30 years ago.  Anyway, this piece sort of says what Shirer says, but because it is lacking the context that Shirer placed the information, it isn't completely accurate in determining what Germans were thinking or feeling at the time.







I'm gonna go with those figures though.  A third or more of the populace was willing to elect Hitler. 







We can look backwards and say that the treaties that were rendered after WWI, which left Germany in such poor shape both economically and emotionally, should not have been crafted as they were, as it allowed the rise of someone to "rescue" the Germans and their national pride, even at the expense of a population of their citizenry. 







We can say lots of things.  When you ask "what should the Germans have done", you are claiming that they couldn't do anything.  Do you also claim that there wasn't a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany?  I know for sure that there was anti-Semitism all over Europe.  There were pogroms, Jews were ghettoised, they were chased from country to country. 







There is a reason that Hitler could get away with what he did in Germany.







 OK, I have to stop you right here.






Hitler did NOT make hating Jews "a very real thing and not some tasteless joke over beers".  There was very real hatred of Jews, not just in Germany, but all over Europe, and not for a short period of time, but FOREVER.






 I answered your question.  Your biases are showing.




 My original statement that you found highly offensive was that there were Germans (and others around the world) who knew what was happening and did nothing.


We are now far afield where the discussion isn't if that statement is true or not (after you cursed me, called me stupid and a liar) but to "what should those have known done" to prove to me that they couldn't do anything.


Now, that may be true and it may not be true.  I'm not a German in Germany in the 1930's.  I'm not living under a terrifying dictatorship.  I don't really have an answer. 


I don't think it matters, though, in terms of what I originally said.  Some people wanted to help Jews and did, hiding them, taking them into their families, or helping them escape.  Others turned those people in for rewards and helped destroy Jews.  Some people weren't anti-Semitic, but there were a whole bunch others that were. 


Saying that there were Germans (and others) who knew what was happening and did nothing, or acknowledging that there were people in Germany and Europe who agreed with Hitler is not an indictment of all Germans.  It's what it is.



Posted on CafeMom Mobile
romalove
by Roma on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:21 AM

 

Quoting Lizard_Lina:

You just proved my point. You don't have an answer. Because all I have said is the only answer. You would have kept your head down and done nothing. No great uprisal. No great rebellion. No great escape. You would have done exactly what they had the power to do. Nothing. I'm done with you.

Quoting romalove:

 


Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Because they are true and if you took 30 seconds to actually listen to what I'm saying and think of what you would do in their position you would see why it makes sense. So again. Hypothetically if that makes you feel better, what would you do once you realised a monster ran your country? Given everything you know to be true about the way Hitler handled those who opposed him.



Quoting romalove:

Why do I have to presuppose your particular set of facts?




Quoting Lizard_Lina:

No you didn't. Probably because you don't have a good answer. But ill ask it again anyway.





For the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?







Quoting romalove:


 





Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Still evading the question.....






Quoting romalove:





 






Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Of course there was, because of Hitler. When you see a Jew hating skinhead who is usually associated? Hitler. He made hating Jews a very real thing and not just some tasteless joke over beers. If you don't take his power of speech and persuasion as a very real thing then clearly you are lost. There are people that work in the white house today who train Obama how to speak. How to inflection his voice. How to move his hands. All done with studies containing major influences in how Hitler used to address his country. So far the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?












 







 I actually read Shirer's book, but I read it sooo long ago.  I think it was like 30 years ago.  Anyway, this piece sort of says what Shirer says, but because it is lacking the context that Shirer placed the information, it isn't completely accurate in determining what Germans were thinking or feeling at the time.







I'm gonna go with those figures though.  A third or more of the populace was willing to elect Hitler. 







We can look backwards and say that the treaties that were rendered after WWI, which left Germany in such poor shape both economically and emotionally, should not have been crafted as they were, as it allowed the rise of someone to "rescue" the Germans and their national pride, even at the expense of a population of their citizenry. 







We can say lots of things.  When you ask "what should the Germans have done", you are claiming that they couldn't do anything.  Do you also claim that there wasn't a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany?  I know for sure that there was anti-Semitism all over Europe.  There were pogroms, Jews were ghettoised, they were chased from country to country. 







There is a reason that Hitler could get away with what he did in Germany.







 OK, I have to stop you right here.






Hitler did NOT make hating Jews "a very real thing and not some tasteless joke over beers".  There was very real hatred of Jews, not just in Germany, but all over Europe, and not for a short period of time, but FOREVER.






 I answered your question.  Your biases are showing.




 My original statement that you found highly offensive was that there were Germans (and others around the world) who knew what was happening and did nothing.


We are now far afield where the discussion isn't if that statement is true or not (after you cursed me, called me stupid and a liar) but to "what should those have known done" to prove to me that they couldn't do anything.


Now, that may be true and it may not be true.  I'm not a German in Germany in the 1930's.  I'm not living under a terrifying dictatorship.  I don't really have an answer. 


I don't think it matters, though, in terms of what I originally said.  Some people wanted to help Jews and did, hiding them, taking them into their families, or helping them escape.  Others turned those people in for rewards and helped destroy Jews.  Some people weren't anti-Semitic, but there were a whole bunch others that were. 


Saying that there were Germans (and others) who knew what was happening and did nothing, or acknowledging that there were people in Germany and Europe who agreed with Hitler is not an indictment of all Germans.  It's what it is.



 Nah, I don't think I would be a good German.

And I'm happy if you're done with me.  You're pretty nasty to debate with.

And, you were wrong to boot.  What I said was correct.  All you did was prove that what I said was correct but maybe with a reason.

Have as nice a day as your nasty disposition will allow.

Lizard_Lina
by Silver Member on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:21 AM
Don't be pissy just because you're wrong. It's not very becoming.


Quoting romalove:

 


Quoting Lizard_Lina:

You just proved my point. You don't have an answer. Because all I have said is the only answer. You would have kept your head down and done nothing. No great uprisal. No great rebellion. No great escape. You would have done exactly what they had the power to do. Nothing. I'm done with you.


Quoting romalove:


 



Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Because they are true and if you took 30 seconds to actually listen to what I'm saying and think of what you would do in their position you would see why it makes sense. So again. Hypothetically if that makes you feel better, what would you do once you realised a monster ran your country? Given everything you know to be true about the way Hitler handled those who opposed him.




Quoting romalove:

Why do I have to presuppose your particular set of facts?





Quoting Lizard_Lina:

No you didn't. Probably because you don't have a good answer. But ill ask it again anyway.





For the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?








Quoting romalove:



 






Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Still evading the question.....







Quoting romalove:






 







Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Of course there was, because of Hitler. When you see a Jew hating skinhead who is usually associated? Hitler. He made hating Jews a very real thing and not just some tasteless joke over beers. If you don't take his power of speech and persuasion as a very real thing then clearly you are lost. There are people that work in the white house today who train Obama how to speak. How to inflection his voice. How to move his hands. All done with studies containing major influences in how Hitler used to address his country. So far the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?














 








 I actually read Shirer's book, but I read it sooo long ago.  I think it was like 30 years ago.  Anyway, this piece sort of says what Shirer says, but because it is lacking the context that Shirer placed the information, it isn't completely accurate in determining what Germans were thinking or feeling at the time.








I'm gonna go with those figures though.  A third or more of the populace was willing to elect Hitler. 








We can look backwards and say that the treaties that were rendered after WWI, which left Germany in such poor shape both economically and emotionally, should not have been crafted as they were, as it allowed the rise of someone to "rescue" the Germans and their national pride, even at the expense of a population of their citizenry. 








We can say lots of things.  When you ask "what should the Germans have done", you are claiming that they couldn't do anything.  Do you also claim that there wasn't a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany?  I know for sure that there was anti-Semitism all over Europe.  There were pogroms, Jews were ghettoised, they were chased from country to country. 








There is a reason that Hitler could get away with what he did in Germany.








 OK, I have to stop you right here.







Hitler did NOT make hating Jews "a very real thing and not some tasteless joke over beers".  There was very real hatred of Jews, not just in Germany, but all over Europe, and not for a short period of time, but FOREVER.







 I answered your question.  Your biases are showing.





 My original statement that you found highly offensive was that there were Germans (and others around the world) who knew what was happening and did nothing.



We are now far afield where the discussion isn't if that statement is true or not (after you cursed me, called me stupid and a liar) but to "what should those have known done" to prove to me that they couldn't do anything.



Now, that may be true and it may not be true.  I'm not a German in Germany in the 1930's.  I'm not living under a terrifying dictatorship.  I don't really have an answer. 



I don't think it matters, though, in terms of what I originally said.  Some people wanted to help Jews and did, hiding them, taking them into their families, or helping them escape.  Others turned those people in for rewards and helped destroy Jews.  Some people weren't anti-Semitic, but there were a whole bunch others that were. 



Saying that there were Germans (and others) who knew what was happening and did nothing, or acknowledging that there were people in Germany and Europe who agreed with Hitler is not an indictment of all Germans.  It's what it is.




 Nah, I don't think I would be a good German.


And I'm happy if you're done with me.  You're pretty nasty to debate with.


And, you were wrong to boot.  What I said was correct.  All you did was prove that what I said was correct but maybe with a reason.


Have as nice a day as your nasty disposition will allow.


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
dustinsmom1
by JENN on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:22 AM

 So what? He was an amazing speaker. We watched videos of him speak in speech class in college, and even in German you were drawn to listen. Saying you admired his speaking skills is not the same as saying you admired the content of said speeches. Look how many people faithfully followed him, he had to be an incredible speaker.

smurfbitebug
by on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:25 AM
Hitler did have amazing charisma and excellent public speaking skills. That's not really something you can cover your eyes and ears and deny.

He clearly said he didn't approve of how he used those skills. He simply said he possessed them. Which is very honest. And honesty is too often traded for not wanting to hurt overly sensitive people.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
smurfbitebug
by on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:29 AM
I am kind of in awe of this argument right here. Well done.

Quoting katzmeow726:

It's not that hard.  Look at the hatred towards Muslims today.  People use the current climate (violence in countries with large Islamic populations, post 9-11...etc) to justify hatred against them, and even use it to back up ideas like kicking out all Muslims from teh U.S..  When Hitler started, Germany was in a bad economic state.  He saw that people were looking for someone/thing to blame, and he pointed (primarily) to the Jews.  And it grew from there.  
    In general, there were many Germans who of COURSE did not agree.  But at the time, those in power did.  Many were afraid.  Of course his voice reflected corruption...but the environment was ripe for what happened.  Today we blame Muslims, atheists, poor people, and any other group that is "undesirable"  for the bad things happening in our nation.  We're lucky to have the constitution, and constant scrutiny of 24 hour media to prevent the things Hitler did...but that does not stop people in power from attacking these groups in any way they can.  All it takes is a charismatic speaker, with a lot of influence...and a volatile environment.  Hitler was really a catalyst, if you look at it.

   At the risk of sounding like a total nerd, I want to refer to the first time Harry Potter meets Olivander to get his magic wand.  Upon receiving his wand, he finds out the wand's twin belongs to Voldemort.  

Olivander says something along the lines of how they could expect great things from Harry, as Voldemort did great things.  Terrible, yes, but great.

I think, in a way, it is the same.  Hitler did great things, as in large and influential.  But also horrible.  Regardless of his atrocities, he remains the most persuasive speaker in history, or so I think. 

Quoting lga1965:

 Hitler's voice, posture and words were NOT characteristic of a "great speaker". I don't know how the German people could stand listening to him. I have heard him.He was insanely corrupt and his voice reflected it.


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
romalove
by Roma on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:35 AM

 

Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Don't be pissy just because you're wrong. It's not very becoming.


Quoting romalove:

 


Quoting Lizard_Lina:

You just proved my point. You don't have an answer. Because all I have said is the only answer. You would have kept your head down and done nothing. No great uprisal. No great rebellion. No great escape. You would have done exactly what they had the power to do. Nothing. I'm done with you.


Quoting romalove:


 



Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Because they are true and if you took 30 seconds to actually listen to what I'm saying and think of what you would do in their position you would see why it makes sense. So again. Hypothetically if that makes you feel better, what would you do once you realised a monster ran your country? Given everything you know to be true about the way Hitler handled those who opposed him.




Quoting romalove:

Why do I have to presuppose your particular set of facts?





Quoting Lizard_Lina:

No you didn't. Probably because you don't have a good answer. But ill ask it again anyway.





For the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?








Quoting romalove:



 






Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Still evading the question.....







Quoting romalove:






 







Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Of course there was, because of Hitler. When you see a Jew hating skinhead who is usually associated? Hitler. He made hating Jews a very real thing and not just some tasteless joke over beers. If you don't take his power of speech and persuasion as a very real thing then clearly you are lost. There are people that work in the white house today who train Obama how to speak. How to inflection his voice. How to move his hands. All done with studies containing major influences in how Hitler used to address his country. So far the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?














 








 I actually read Shirer's book, but I read it sooo long ago.  I think it was like 30 years ago.  Anyway, this piece sort of says what Shirer says, but because it is lacking the context that Shirer placed the information, it isn't completely accurate in determining what Germans were thinking or feeling at the time.








I'm gonna go with those figures though.  A third or more of the populace was willing to elect Hitler. 








We can look backwards and say that the treaties that were rendered after WWI, which left Germany in such poor shape both economically and emotionally, should not have been crafted as they were, as it allowed the rise of someone to "rescue" the Germans and their national pride, even at the expense of a population of their citizenry. 








We can say lots of things.  When you ask "what should the Germans have done", you are claiming that they couldn't do anything.  Do you also claim that there wasn't a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany?  I know for sure that there was anti-Semitism all over Europe.  There were pogroms, Jews were ghettoised, they were chased from country to country. 








There is a reason that Hitler could get away with what he did in Germany.








 OK, I have to stop you right here.







Hitler did NOT make hating Jews "a very real thing and not some tasteless joke over beers".  There was very real hatred of Jews, not just in Germany, but all over Europe, and not for a short period of time, but FOREVER.







 I answered your question.  Your biases are showing.





 My original statement that you found highly offensive was that there were Germans (and others around the world) who knew what was happening and did nothing.



We are now far afield where the discussion isn't if that statement is true or not (after you cursed me, called me stupid and a liar) but to "what should those have known done" to prove to me that they couldn't do anything.



Now, that may be true and it may not be true.  I'm not a German in Germany in the 1930's.  I'm not living under a terrifying dictatorship.  I don't really have an answer. 



I don't think it matters, though, in terms of what I originally said.  Some people wanted to help Jews and did, hiding them, taking them into their families, or helping them escape.  Others turned those people in for rewards and helped destroy Jews.  Some people weren't anti-Semitic, but there were a whole bunch others that were. 



Saying that there were Germans (and others) who knew what was happening and did nothing, or acknowledging that there were people in Germany and Europe who agreed with Hitler is not an indictment of all Germans.  It's what it is.




 Nah, I don't think I would be a good German.


And I'm happy if you're done with me.  You're pretty nasty to debate with.


And, you were wrong to boot.  What I said was correct.  All you did was prove that what I said was correct but maybe with a reason.


Have as nice a day as your nasty disposition will allow.


 Silly girl, you proved me correct.

What you tried to show is that they had no choice.

Maybe, maybe not.

There are always those who will not stand by and let others do evil.

I thought you were done with me?

Good grief I certainly hope so!

Lizard_Lina
by Silver Member on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:38 AM
And they didnt, and since you can't come up with a better choice than keep your head down and do nothing, you must agree. So hahaha sucks to be you. Check your history next time you want to argue history. Have a great day :-)


Quoting romalove:

 


Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Don't be pissy just because you're wrong. It's not very becoming.



Quoting romalove:


 



Quoting Lizard_Lina:

You just proved my point. You don't have an answer. Because all I have said is the only answer. You would have kept your head down and done nothing. No great uprisal. No great rebellion. No great escape. You would have done exactly what they had the power to do. Nothing. I'm done with you.



Quoting romalove:



 




Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Because they are true and if you took 30 seconds to actually listen to what I'm saying and think of what you would do in their position you would see why it makes sense. So again. Hypothetically if that makes you feel better, what would you do once you realised a monster ran your country? Given everything you know to be true about the way Hitler handled those who opposed him.





Quoting romalove:

Why do I have to presuppose your particular set of facts?






Quoting Lizard_Lina:

No you didn't. Probably because you don't have a good answer. But ill ask it again anyway.





For the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?









Quoting romalove:




 







Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Still evading the question.....








Quoting romalove:







 








Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Of course there was, because of Hitler. When you see a Jew hating skinhead who is usually associated? Hitler. He made hating Jews a very real thing and not just some tasteless joke over beers. If you don't take his power of speech and persuasion as a very real thing then clearly you are lost. There are people that work in the white house today who train Obama how to speak. How to inflection his voice. How to move his hands. All done with studies containing major influences in how Hitler used to address his country. So far the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?
















 









 I actually read Shirer's book, but I read it sooo long ago.  I think it was like 30 years ago.  Anyway, this piece sort of says what Shirer says, but because it is lacking the context that Shirer placed the information, it isn't completely accurate in determining what Germans were thinking or feeling at the time.









I'm gonna go with those figures though.  A third or more of the populace was willing to elect Hitler. 









We can look backwards and say that the treaties that were rendered after WWI, which left Germany in such poor shape both economically and emotionally, should not have been crafted as they were, as it allowed the rise of someone to "rescue" the Germans and their national pride, even at the expense of a population of their citizenry. 









We can say lots of things.  When you ask "what should the Germans have done", you are claiming that they couldn't do anything.  Do you also claim that there wasn't a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany?  I know for sure that there was anti-Semitism all over Europe.  There were pogroms, Jews were ghettoised, they were chased from country to country. 









There is a reason that Hitler could get away with what he did in Germany.









 OK, I have to stop you right here.








Hitler did NOT make hating Jews "a very real thing and not some tasteless joke over beers".  There was very real hatred of Jews, not just in Germany, but all over Europe, and not for a short period of time, but FOREVER.








 I answered your question.  Your biases are showing.






 My original statement that you found highly offensive was that there were Germans (and others around the world) who knew what was happening and did nothing.




We are now far afield where the discussion isn't if that statement is true or not (after you cursed me, called me stupid and a liar) but to "what should those have known done" to prove to me that they couldn't do anything.




Now, that may be true and it may not be true.  I'm not a German in Germany in the 1930's.  I'm not living under a terrifying dictatorship.  I don't really have an answer. 




I don't think it matters, though, in terms of what I originally said.  Some people wanted to help Jews and did, hiding them, taking them into their families, or helping them escape.  Others turned those people in for rewards and helped destroy Jews.  Some people weren't anti-Semitic, but there were a whole bunch others that were. 




Saying that there were Germans (and others) who knew what was happening and did nothing, or acknowledging that there were people in Germany and Europe who agreed with Hitler is not an indictment of all Germans.  It's what it is.





 Nah, I don't think I would be a good German.



And I'm happy if you're done with me.  You're pretty nasty to debate with.



And, you were wrong to boot.  What I said was correct.  All you did was prove that what I said was correct but maybe with a reason.



Have as nice a day as your nasty disposition will allow.



 Silly girl, you proved me correct.


What you tried to show is that they had no choice.


Maybe, maybe not.


There are always those who will not stand by and let others do evil.


I thought you were done with me?


Good grief I certainly hope so!


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
romalove
by Roma on Oct. 10, 2012 at 9:43 AM

 

Quoting Lizard_Lina:

And they didnt, and since you can't come up with a better choice than keep your head down and do nothing, you must agree. So hahaha sucks to be you. Check your history next time you want to argue history. Have a great day :-)


Quoting romalove:

 


Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Don't be pissy just because you're wrong. It's not very becoming.



Quoting romalove:


 



Quoting Lizard_Lina:

You just proved my point. You don't have an answer. Because all I have said is the only answer. You would have kept your head down and done nothing. No great uprisal. No great rebellion. No great escape. You would have done exactly what they had the power to do. Nothing. I'm done with you.



Quoting romalove:



 




Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Because they are true and if you took 30 seconds to actually listen to what I'm saying and think of what you would do in their position you would see why it makes sense. So again. Hypothetically if that makes you feel better, what would you do once you realised a monster ran your country? Given everything you know to be true about the way Hitler handled those who opposed him.





Quoting romalove:

Why do I have to presuppose your particular set of facts?






Quoting Lizard_Lina:

No you didn't. Probably because you don't have a good answer. But ill ask it again anyway.





For the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?









Quoting romalove:




 







Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Still evading the question.....








Quoting romalove:







 








Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Of course there was, because of Hitler. When you see a Jew hating skinhead who is usually associated? Hitler. He made hating Jews a very real thing and not just some tasteless joke over beers. If you don't take his power of speech and persuasion as a very real thing then clearly you are lost. There are people that work in the white house today who train Obama how to speak. How to inflection his voice. How to move his hands. All done with studies containing major influences in how Hitler used to address his country. So far the sake of the argument, Hitler influenced these people. At least a third. Then at some point they realised he wasn't what they thought. What would you have had them do? You keep saying they should have some better, they all knew and didn't do anything, they didn't want to be bothered. Ok, in this scenario they want to do something. People are being shot in the streets and there's talk of the concentration camps being used as kill camps. They didn't just take the Jews to work anymore. Now everyone is in danger. What would you do?
















 









 I actually read Shirer's book, but I read it sooo long ago.  I think it was like 30 years ago.  Anyway, this piece sort of says what Shirer says, but because it is lacking the context that Shirer placed the information, it isn't completely accurate in determining what Germans were thinking or feeling at the time.









I'm gonna go with those figures though.  A third or more of the populace was willing to elect Hitler. 









We can look backwards and say that the treaties that were rendered after WWI, which left Germany in such poor shape both economically and emotionally, should not have been crafted as they were, as it allowed the rise of someone to "rescue" the Germans and their national pride, even at the expense of a population of their citizenry. 









We can say lots of things.  When you ask "what should the Germans have done", you are claiming that they couldn't do anything.  Do you also claim that there wasn't a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany?  I know for sure that there was anti-Semitism all over Europe.  There were pogroms, Jews were ghettoised, they were chased from country to country. 









There is a reason that Hitler could get away with what he did in Germany.









 OK, I have to stop you right here.








Hitler did NOT make hating Jews "a very real thing and not some tasteless joke over beers".  There was very real hatred of Jews, not just in Germany, but all over Europe, and not for a short period of time, but FOREVER.








 I answered your question.  Your biases are showing.






 My original statement that you found highly offensive was that there were Germans (and others around the world) who knew what was happening and did nothing.




We are now far afield where the discussion isn't if that statement is true or not (after you cursed me, called me stupid and a liar) but to "what should those have known done" to prove to me that they couldn't do anything.




Now, that may be true and it may not be true.  I'm not a German in Germany in the 1930's.  I'm not living under a terrifying dictatorship.  I don't really have an answer. 




I don't think it matters, though, in terms of what I originally said.  Some people wanted to help Jews and did, hiding them, taking them into their families, or helping them escape.  Others turned those people in for rewards and helped destroy Jews.  Some people weren't anti-Semitic, but there were a whole bunch others that were. 




Saying that there were Germans (and others) who knew what was happening and did nothing, or acknowledging that there were people in Germany and Europe who agreed with Hitler is not an indictment of all Germans.  It's what it is.





 Nah, I don't think I would be a good German.



And I'm happy if you're done with me.  You're pretty nasty to debate with.



And, you were wrong to boot.  What I said was correct.  All you did was prove that what I said was correct but maybe with a reason.



Have as nice a day as your nasty disposition will allow.



 Silly girl, you proved me correct.


What you tried to show is that they had no choice.


Maybe, maybe not.


There are always those who will not stand by and let others do evil.


I thought you were done with me?


Good grief I certainly hope so!


 I guess you don't even know the meaning of being done with me, lol.

I know my history.

And I know people who are all bent out of shape over nothing because they want to think their people did the right thing when they didn't.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

People who keep their head down and do nothing in the face of great evil are called cowards where I come from.

You still want to argue they didn't know?  Or do you want to argue they knew and couldn't fix it?

Pick a side, please.

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