Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)

Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

Conservatives who disagree with social programs should not work in community action.

Do you think?

How far you go in life depends on your being: tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of both the weak and strong.  Because someday in life you would have been one or all of these.  GeorgeWashingtonCarver


by on Oct. 11, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Replies (41-50):
futureshock
by Ruby Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 12:53 PM


Quoting garnet83:

I believe this to be accurate. Conservatives, generally, are all of these. However, we don't care for able-bodied people who have made a lifestyle out of government benefits, nor for holding back those who are successful, or creating division among the American people by portraying successful people as villains for having made good decisions and investments. Those who are well off, hopefully, will reach out and help those who genuinely need help getting on their feet or overcoming unfortunate circumstances. However, we do not feel that it is just or Constitutional for the government to mandate that the successful take financial responsibility for others. While I agree with the above quote, I feel that it leaves much unsaid.

Does this mean you do not agree with tax payer funded public assistance?

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 12:55 PM


Quoting survivorinohio:


Quoting garnet83:

I believe this to be accurate. Conservatives, generally, are all of these. However, we don't care for able-bodied people who have made a lifestyle out of government benefits, nor for holding back those who are successful, or creating division among the American people by portraying successful people as villains for having made good decisions and investments. Those who are well off, hopefully, will reach out and help those who genuinely need help getting on their feet or overcoming unfortunate circumstances. However, we do not feel that it is just or Constitutional for the government to mandate that the successful take financial responsibility for others. While I agree with the above quote, I feel that it leaves much unsaid.

I can respect your viewpoint and the way it is pesented, thank you.

What do you think her viewpoint is on public assistance?  I am not sure I know exactly what she means here.  It sounds to me like she is against taxes taken out to fund welfare and thinks charity should be voluntary.

furbabymum
by Gold Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 12:56 PM

 NEEDS can be met. The difference is people's idea of NEED v Want.

Just because these people are in a poverty stricken region doesn't mean their needs are not met. I just said they aren't going to suddenly get rich off it.

Quoting Sisteract:

So needs can not be met by "donations" alone?

The difference between a donation and a tax is the mandate.

I wonder if we could meet all needs without the mandate?

If so, wouldn't we be doing so already, based on the fact that so many (at least claim) to be so dedicated to giving and actively doing so?

Quoting furbabymum:

 The usual standard for church giving is 10%. 10% of poverty level wages isn't going to make that much of a difference. This might explain why church attendance hasn't suddenly brought everyone out of poverty.

Quoting Sisteract:

I disagree.

Many disagree with government sponsored social programs, but not in helping on an individual level. Most will state that they believe in focusing on churches- and they personally donate time, talent and treasure via this avenue.

Although, that poverty map that has been circulating in the last month seems to indicate something different. It shows that the south is riddled with poverty and has the highest rates of government assistance. Church involvement and attendance is also quite high in this same region. Something is not adding up. Obviously, church donations {time, talent, treasure} are not meeting needs. I wonder if people do not donate as much as they profess?

 


 

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 12:57 PM


Quoting pamelax3:

I would have such a hard time doing any kind of work for someone like that.

Quoting furbabymum:

 I think you can be a perfectly competent employee while not necessarily agreeing with things.

For instance: we just got a federal child sexual assault case. 20 victims starting as young as 3. There is no way in hell I think this guy is awesome. In fact, I rather hope he dies in prison. I'm still going to do my job and I'll do it just as well for him as I do it for all our other clients. I'm looking through discovery and I'm writing down possible defenses for this. I really hope he's killed in prison though.


ditto

Lizard_Lina
by Silver Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 1:16 PM
There should be, but if its that or starvation and homelessness, suck it up and stop by the church.


Quoting NWP:

I believe there should be a secular alternative to religious charity.

They both have their place.

Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Ok while I Totaly agree with what you are saying, those that would choose homelessness and starvation over stepping out of their comfort level to ask a church for help deserve to be homeless and hungry. Pride should not trump priority.





Quoting NWP:

Churches do offer a lot of charity. I think that church charities serve a more limited base than PA. There are people who need assistance who do not belong to a church or do not feel comfortable reaching out to a religion they do not believe for help. This leaves many without help if we rely on churches alone.

Quoting Sisteract:

I disagree.

Many disagree with government sponsored social programs, but not in helping on an individual level. Most will state that they believe in focusing on churches- and they personally donate time, talent and treasure via this avenue.

Although, that poverty map that has been circulating in the last month seems to indicate something different. It shows that the south is riddled with poverty and has the highest rates of government assistance. Church involvement and attendance is also quite high in this same region. Something is not adding up. Obviously, church donations {time, talent, treasure} are not meeting needs. I wonder if people do not donate as much as they profess?






Posted on CafeMom Mobile
radioheid
by Libertarian on Oct. 11, 2012 at 1:16 PM

 I wish.

200 million is a very high-ball estimate, and that would be what I would personally put forward, if I had the capital. I'd need to win the Power Ball lottery for something like this to be even remotely possible. I'd want 200 million to ensure I didn't have to worry about donations for at least 5 years, which, by that time, I would have helped approximately 360 people obtain CDL, business associate, welding or other industrial certification, in addition to having completed driver/defensive driver, consumer math and home economics courses, all while receiving necessary medical and dental care. If nobody offered a single dollar after that 5 years, I could live with the success of having spent my fortune helping 360 people to live on their own with the necessary education and training to be completely independent.

IMO, the current welfare programs will never work to make people independent and self-sufficient as long as they are scattered, and as long as an inefficient government beaurocracy is overseeing them. Consolidate these programs into a single campus that offers everything---housing, preventative medical and dental care, daycare, transportation, a single administrative building with specialized offices, and the program will have an exponentially higher rate of success.

My big sis was on welfare for a few months during the Great Recession in 2008. You had to go to one office in one location for food stamps, another office in another location for WIC, you had to go to the library for computer access, go elsewhere for education assistance, somewhere else for housing assistance...it is insane, confusing and time consuming.

Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Accepting donations?


Quoting radioheid:

 Why not?


There's a difference between open-ended welfare programs and programs that require responsibility.


I've long said that if a miracle happens and I come into a couple hundred-million, I'd love to open a program that offers job training, transportation and on-site housing to young people between 21 and 40 who are interested in a permanent solution to poverty. However, those people would be thoroughly screened to determine who would be a good investment, and who is likely to fail. Those who have been severely disadvantaged but show potential would receive the opportunity to obtain a high school diploma and driver's license (if necessary), certification training or an associate's degree from an accredited institution, very low-cost housing, daycare services and preventative medical care while they are in the program, and transportation to and from school and appointments in exchange for janitorial, maintenance/groundskeeping or secretarial work for the foundation while they are enrolled in the program.


Of course, I'm not considered a "true" conservative because I'm a Libertarian.


 


 


"Roger that. Over."

R   A   D    I    O    H    E    I    D

Lizard_Lina
by Silver Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 1:18 PM
Donations and public assistance are not supposed to bring people out of poverty. There are supposed to help you survive until you can get out of poverty yourself. Since when did it become anyone else's job to do that for you?


Quoting furbabymum:

 NEEDS can be met. The difference is people's idea of NEED v Want.


Just because these people are in a poverty stricken region doesn't mean their needs are not met. I just said they aren't going to suddenly get rich off it.


Quoting Sisteract:


So needs can not be met by "donations" alone?


The difference between a donation and a tax is the mandate.


I wonder if we could meet all needs without the mandate?


If so, wouldn't we be doing so already, based on the fact that so many (at least claim) to be so dedicated to giving and actively doing so?


Quoting furbabymum:


 The usual standard for church giving is 10%. 10% of poverty level wages isn't going to make that much of a difference. This might explain why church attendance hasn't suddenly brought everyone out of poverty.


Quoting Sisteract:


I disagree.


Many disagree with government sponsored social programs, but not in helping on an individual level. Most will state that they believe in focusing on churches- and they personally donate time, talent and treasure via this avenue.


Although, that poverty map that has been circulating in the last month seems to indicate something different. It shows that the south is riddled with poverty and has the highest rates of government assistance. Church involvement and attendance is also quite high in this same region. Something is not adding up. Obviously, church donations {time, talent, treasure} are not meeting needs. I wonder if people do not donate as much as they profess?


 




 


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
furbabymum
by Gold Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 1:23 PM

 If you're asking me I'm on your side.

Quoting Lizard_Lina:

Donations and public assistance are not supposed to bring people out of poverty. There are supposed to help you survive until you can get out of poverty yourself. Since when did it become anyone else's job to do that for you?


Quoting furbabymum:

 NEEDS can be met. The difference is people's idea of NEED v Want.


Just because these people are in a poverty stricken region doesn't mean their needs are not met. I just said they aren't going to suddenly get rich off it.


Quoting Sisteract:


So needs can not be met by "donations" alone?


The difference between a donation and a tax is the mandate.


I wonder if we could meet all needs without the mandate?


If so, wouldn't we be doing so already, based on the fact that so many (at least claim) to be so dedicated to giving and actively doing so?


Quoting furbabymum:


 The usual standard for church giving is 10%. 10% of poverty level wages isn't going to make that much of a difference. This might explain why church attendance hasn't suddenly brought everyone out of poverty.


Quoting Sisteract:


I disagree.


Many disagree with government sponsored social programs, but not in helping on an individual level. Most will state that they believe in focusing on churches- and they personally donate time, talent and treasure via this avenue.


Although, that poverty map that has been circulating in the last month seems to indicate something different. It shows that the south is riddled with poverty and has the highest rates of government assistance. Church involvement and attendance is also quite high in this same region. Something is not adding up. Obviously, church donations {time, talent, treasure} are not meeting needs. I wonder if people do not donate as much as they profess?


 




 


 

owl0210
by Bronze Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 1:25 PM

Are you a Federal Public Defender? 

Quoting furbabymum:

 I think you can be a perfectly competent employee while not necessarily agreeing with things.

For instance: we just got a federal child sexual assault case. 20 victims starting as young as 3. There is no way in hell I think this guy is awesome. In fact, I rather hope he dies in prison. I'm still going to do my job and I'll do it just as well for him as I do it for all our other clients. I'm looking through discovery and I'm writing down possible defenses for this. I really hope he's killed in prison though.

 

furbabymum
by Gold Member on Oct. 11, 2012 at 1:27 PM

 No. I'm not a lawyer at all. Paralegal.

Quoting owl0210:

Are you a Federal Public Defender? 

Quoting furbabymum:

 I think you can be a perfectly competent employee while not necessarily agreeing with things.

For instance: we just got a federal child sexual assault case. 20 victims starting as young as 3. There is no way in hell I think this guy is awesome. In fact, I rather hope he dies in prison. I'm still going to do my job and I'll do it just as well for him as I do it for all our other clients. I'm looking through discovery and I'm writing down possible defenses for this. I really hope he's killed in prison though.

 

 

Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.
Join the Meeting Place for Moms!
Talk to other moms, share advice, and have fun!

(minimum 6 characters)