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 Although I do think the VP debate was very close to a draw, much of that is Biden's demeanor, which IMO really damaged his credibility.  The GOP wasted no time highlighting it:

Now of course Biden was doing his "that's malarky stuff" laugh as a way to laugh off Ryan, but I found it grating and unbecoming after the first time.  The thought that comes to me is, "This is a seasoned, mature politician with much more years under his belt, this is the Vice President.  Is this really how he presents himself after all that?"  While Ryan was articulate, he lacked gravitas and a bold manner, yet that is something he can grow into as a VP. 

If Biden had reflected the respect due to his office, he would have won, IMO.  Yet his manner, something we have little to no reason to expect him to change, was found wanting.

The most pressing social issue today is the economy

Visit Mitt Romney for President, CafeMom Group

by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 7:57 AM
Replies (51-60):
Sisteract
by Whoopie on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:33 AM
3 moms liked this

How does targeting companies, engaging, firing employees, extracting  assets for self and a few others translate to experience that will help America?

He worked with both parties in MA because he become one of the liberal, Dem majority (chameleon at work).

Did you watch the Frontline Choice 2012 documentary? Telling and informative.

Romney has been labeled as politically unprincipled. IMO, his behaviors reinforce that assessment.

Quoting Meadowchik:

I'll go with the guy who has experience cutting loopholes, balancing budgets, helping businesses succeed, and getting work done by working intensely with both parties.

The situation is bad, no matter what.  Obama is making it worse, Romney will do better.

Quoting Sisteract:

Honey one is bad and the other is worse.

I thought the GOP would cultivate a better candidate with a real plan... guess the complaining for 3 years distracted from that goal.

They did not.

HOW could you endorse that approach-"he did it too"?

What we know of MR's plan- is eerily similar to Ws- how did that work for America?

Quoting Meadowchik:

And Obama's plan is mathematically impossible at current rates of growth.  How can you discount this???

Quoting Sisteract:

I go by what they said.

Ryan did not answer the questions asked.

His stated economic plan was found to be mathematically impossible by factchecker. HOW CAN PEOPLE DISCOUNT THIS?

Parse the act from the words/message.

Of the 4 who have debated so far, Biden is the only one who has presented facts, incorporated actual applicable experience and knowledge. Was he rude while calling out the miscues, fabrications and contributions? Yes. Were his statements and assertions wrong? No.

 


 


Separation of church and state is for the protection of BOTH church and state.
Leading with hate and intolerance only leads to MORE hate and intolerance.
LucyMom08
by Gold Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:33 AM
How?

Quoting Meadowchik:

I'll go with the guy who has experience cutting loopholes, balancing budgets, helping businesses succeed, and getting work done by working intensely with both parties.


The situation is bad, no matter what.  Obama is making it worse, Romney will do better.


Quoting Sisteract:


Honey one is bad and the other is worse.


I thought the GOP would cultivate a better candidate with a real plan... guess the complaining for 3 years distracted from that goal.


They did not.


HOW could you endorse that approach-"he did it too"?


What we know of MR's plan- is eerily similar to Ws- how did that work for America?


Quoting Meadowchik:


And Obama's plan is mathematically impossible at current rates of growth.  How can you discount this???


Quoting Sisteract:


I go by what they said.


Ryan did not answer the questions asked.


His stated economic plan was found to be mathematically impossible by factchecker. HOW CAN PEOPLE DISCOUNT THIS?


Parse the act from the words/message.


Of the 4 who have debated so far, Biden is the only one who has presented facts, incorporated actual applicable experience and knowledge. Was he rude while calling out the miscues, fabrications and contributions? Yes. Were his statements and assertions wrong? No.


 




 

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Sisteract
by Whoopie on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:36 AM
1 mom liked this

You'd think someone with such wonderful experience could devise a solid, mathematically viable economic plan, but so far he has been unable to create such a plan.

Quoting LucyMom08:

How?

Quoting Meadowchik:

I'll go with the guy who has experience cutting loopholes, balancing budgets, helping businesses succeed, and getting work done by working intensely with both parties.


The situation is bad, no matter what.  Obama is making it worse, Romney will do better.


Quoting Sisteract:


Honey one is bad and the other is worse.


I thought the GOP would cultivate a better candidate with a real plan... guess the complaining for 3 years distracted from that goal.


They did not.


HOW could you endorse that approach-"he did it too"?


What we know of MR's plan- is eerily similar to Ws- how did that work for America?


Quoting Meadowchik:


And Obama's plan is mathematically impossible at current rates of growth.  How can you discount this???


Quoting Sisteract:


I go by what they said.


Ryan did not answer the questions asked.


His stated economic plan was found to be mathematically impossible by factchecker. HOW CAN PEOPLE DISCOUNT THIS?


Parse the act from the words/message.


Of the 4 who have debated so far, Biden is the only one who has presented facts, incorporated actual applicable experience and knowledge. Was he rude while calling out the miscues, fabrications and contributions? Yes. Were his statements and assertions wrong? No.


 




 


Separation of church and state is for the protection of BOTH church and state.
Leading with hate and intolerance only leads to MORE hate and intolerance.
Lizardannie1966
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:38 AM


Quoting meriana:


Quoting Lizardannie1966:

IMO, Biden has been a big part of the worst aspects of the current administration.

He's an arrogant, belittling, condescending ass--three traits I despise with a passion.



Pretty much sums up my impression of Romney.

Pretty much sums up my own opinion of Romney, too.

However, I have never cared for Joe Biden, politically or otherwise.

LucyMom08
by Gold Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM
1 mom liked this
Exactly...

Quoting Sisteract:

You'd think someone with such wonderful experience could devise a solid, mathematically viable economic plan, but so far he has been unable to create such a plan.

Quoting LucyMom08:

How?



Quoting Meadowchik:

I'll go with the guy who has experience cutting loopholes, balancing budgets, helping businesses succeed, and getting work done by working intensely with both parties.



The situation is bad, no matter what.  Obama is making it worse, Romney will do better.



Quoting Sisteract:



Honey one is bad and the other is worse.



I thought the GOP would cultivate a better candidate with a real plan... guess the complaining for 3 years distracted from that goal.



They did not.



HOW could you endorse that approach-"he did it too"?



What we know of MR's plan- is eerily similar to Ws- how did that work for America?



Quoting Meadowchik:



And Obama's plan is mathematically impossible at current rates of growth.  How can you discount this???



Quoting Sisteract:



I go by what they said.



Ryan did not answer the questions asked.



His stated economic plan was found to be mathematically impossible by factchecker. HOW CAN PEOPLE DISCOUNT THIS?



Parse the act from the words/message.



Of the 4 who have debated so far, Biden is the only one who has presented facts, incorporated actual applicable experience and knowledge. Was he rude while calling out the miscues, fabrications and contributions? Yes. Were his statements and assertions wrong? No.



 






 


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:43 AM

Pointing out rules and fairness is not disrespectful.  I recall Romney doing that.  Obama's limpness did not mean Romney was rude by comparison, it just mean's Obama was limp and debated weakly.  Surely Lehrer would have given Obama more openings if he sought them, but Obama did not.  He looked and acted like he did not want to be there, while barely looking at either the moderator, Romney or the audience.  It seems to me that people are trying to prop Obama's weak performance up by saying Romney was rude, but he wasn't.

Quoting LucyMom08:

So interrupting the moderator and pointedly telling him how the debate is going to go was a respectful way to come across?

Quoting Meadowchik:

 


Quoting Joqui:


seriously it is whatever to me, I think Biden did a great job expressing his point.  Maybe it helped him connect with some of his audience maybe it didn't. Romney did the same shit but it was ok right?


 No, Romney did not.  Romney was also assertive, even moreso, but he did so while maintaining a dignified and respectful manner.  He was much more convincing that way.

 

The most pressing social issue today is the economy

Visit Mitt Romney for President, CafeMom Group

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM

Both MR and JB were rude.

Obama was mildly so.

Ryan had the best behavior. Wonder if he went to Catholic school? Off to google.

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:50 AM

Ryan did attend Catholic elementary school. 

Biden did not.


Woodbabe
by Woodie on Oct. 12, 2012 at 11:56 AM
1 mom liked this

There's a HUGE spectrum of behavior between too weak and being an ass! We see that HERE everyday. People everywhere manage to come across as confident and assert themselves without being an ass. How much faith would you have in your boss if he was literally laughing in your face like a donkey to everything he didn't agree with? What happened to asking direct questions and letting the person answer and then offering a counter-point? You don't win an arguement by talking over someone like that, it makes you look like you're overcompensating for your personal lack of...something.

Quoting cjsbmom:

 See, Obama wasn't forceful enough, and people called him weak in his debating. But we think Biden went overboard. What would you consider a happy-medium between being too weak and being an ass?

Quoting Woodbabe:

Not rooting for either team, I was looking forward to hearing what they had to say. I'm not familiar with the numbers and facts so I couldn't pick a winner from what they said, but we turned it off before it was over because Biden's rude attitude, interrupting and laughing at Ryan comepletely removed any credibility he had. Biden could have been the only person telling the truth but his behavior was such a turn off. He kept bragging about his long experience in the political area, you'd think he would have learned how to behave respectfully to others by this point.

 


 Sexy If its unladylike, fattening or fun, I'm in!
  

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 12:04 PM
1 mom liked this



My comment was directed at the people  that took issue with Biden's "aggressive" or "unprofessional" behavior but thought the aggressiveness/unprofessional behavior was completely okay when Mitt Romney used it.


Quoting Meadowchik:

I didn't fault Biden for being assertive.  In fact, I faulted Ryan for not being assertive enough.  It was the constant, laughing scoffs of Biden's which made him completely different from Romney. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

The same way it is extremely telling that when Mitt Romney got the last word in every time. When he lied nearly the whole debate. Flipped Flopped on the parts he wasn't lying on. And Conservative/Republicans declare him the winner for being Aggressive.

Biden shows a little of the same aggression and suddenly it is a bad behavior and he shouldn't have done it.

Extremely telling.

Quoting candlegal:

You know it is kind of telling that so many on the left used to talk about how they hated the smirk on President Bush's face, but seem to find it okay on Obama and Biden.  Bush barely had a smirk and Obama almost always has one.


Quoting Carpy:

I think his smirking and smiling at inappropiate times was unbecoming and appears to have done more harm than good.  Of course the Obama devotees loved it, but the undecideds apparently, mostly did not.



 


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