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 Although I do think the VP debate was very close to a draw, much of that is Biden's demeanor, which IMO really damaged his credibility.  The GOP wasted no time highlighting it:

Now of course Biden was doing his "that's malarky stuff" laugh as a way to laugh off Ryan, but I found it grating and unbecoming after the first time.  The thought that comes to me is, "This is a seasoned, mature politician with much more years under his belt, this is the Vice President.  Is this really how he presents himself after all that?"  While Ryan was articulate, he lacked gravitas and a bold manner, yet that is something he can grow into as a VP. 

If Biden had reflected the respect due to his office, he would have won, IMO.  Yet his manner, something we have little to no reason to expect him to change, was found wanting.

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by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 7:57 AM
Replies (71-80):
Friday
by HRH of MJ on Oct. 12, 2012 at 1:45 PM


Quoting brookiecookie87:

The same way it is extremely telling that when Mitt Romney got the last word in every time. When he lied nearly the whole debate. Flipped Flopped on the parts he wasn't lying on. And Conservative/Republicans declare him the winner for being Aggressive.

Biden shows a little of the same aggression and suddenly it is a bad behavior and he shouldn't have done it.

Extremely telling.

Quoting candlegal:

You know it is kind of telling that so many on the left used to talk about how they hated the smirk on President Bush's face, but seem to find it okay on Obama and Biden.  Bush barely had a smirk and Obama almost always has one.


Quoting Carpy:

I think his smirking and smiling at inappropiate times was unbecoming and appears to have done more harm than good.  Of course the Obama devotees loved it, but the undecideds apparently, mostly did not.



You know the rules, IOKIYAR


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katy_kay08
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 2:11 PM
3 moms liked this

Oddy_Knocky
by on Oct. 12, 2012 at 2:25 PM
He wasn't hahahehohoha laughing but smirking/laughing/shaking his head at the absurd things he was hearing. Was it a little off putting? Sure. Romney smirked. Romney interrupted constantly. In the end though, will it really matter? I don't know. Some days I feel we're doomed either way.
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pamelax3
by Gold Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 2:36 PM

All four of these people are idiots. Our country is screwed either way we go..

Joe Biden did act like a childish ass and that is just one more reason not to vote for the democratic ticket, he no more cared about the issues then the man in the moon.

Kimberly003
by New Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 2:47 PM
1 mom liked this

 

Quoting Aslen:

no different than how Romney acted during th first debate

 The one thing everyone agreed on, even on the most liberal news sites, was that Romney was respectfull yet made sure his point got across and wouldn't let Obama lie and bully him.  It was a great debate, and Romney won hands down, simply because the moderator let them debate.  That debate is how it should always be, with minimum interffernce by moderator.  How else are we to get to know the candidate?

Kimberly003
by New Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 2:52 PM


Quoting motha2daDuchess:

Now see, the dems in typical usual dem fashion were willing to work with Romney in Mass for the healthplan.....the repubs in congress are not willing to work with President Obama, so that is not a good comparison


Quoting Meadowchik:

Romney worked with both parties in MA because the people wanted healthcare reform. 

Romney saved failing companies, made many stronger, and earned the rewards that came with doing that.  Not all companies succeeded, but they did at much better rates than typical businesses.  From that, he saw how government interacts with business, and he understands what businesses need to grow.  He also knows that it is real productivity that grows an economy, and that what his plan promotes: open up energy to manufacturing, education, trade, tax reform.

What is Obama's plan to make the next four years different than these last four?  What's his plan to withdraw from the 40 billion to banks every month to prop up the markets?  What's his plan to make our debt and deficit manageable?  How on earth can he guarantee that we will have enough to fund healthcare needs without sacrificing quality of care? That plan, btw, does not add up. 

I'd like to see Obama answer these questions.

 

Quoting Sisteract:

How does targeting companies, engaging, firing employees, extracting  assets for self and a few others translate to experience that will help America?

He worked with both parties in MA because he become one of the liberal, Dem majority (chameleon at work).

Did you watch the Frontline Choice 2012 documentary? Telling and informative.

Romney has been labeled as politically unprincipled. IMO, his behaviors reinforce that assessment.


And the Democratic senate hasn't passed a budget in 4 years, and won't bring any of the bills sent from the house up for discussion.  Now who exaclty is holding up the process here?

brandydesiree
by Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 2:54 PM
1 mom liked this
If I had only listened to the debate, I'd say Biden won, by a smidge. However, watching the debate, Biden was rude, disrespectful, interuptive, snarky, laughing, rolling his eyes, pointing his finger at Martha.

He looked like a crook, a used car salesman.

I really enjoyed both closing arguments. I thought that they both resonanted with their base very well in Closing Arguments, but I give Ryan the edge with Undecided, because of Biden's actions, not words.
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viv212
by Gold Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 4:08 PM
Exactly. How is cutting taxes, yet giving more to military, cutting PBS, supporting letting GM go bankrupt, over turning Roe vs Wade, and cutting people's income on SSI and PA helping with job growth? The very little plan that they can come up with is showing how they are cutting jobs. Yet all the R's talk about is how their plan will help job growth. AGAIN, how???????????? Instead of giving us a plan on what you will cut, give us a plan on how you will make up for these lost jobs, plus add more???!

Quoting Sisteract:

You'd think someone with such wonderful experience could devise a solid, mathematically viable economic plan, but so far he has been unable to create such a plan.

Quoting LucyMom08:

How?



Quoting Meadowchik:

I'll go with the guy who has experience cutting loopholes, balancing budgets, helping businesses succeed, and getting work done by working intensely with both parties.



The situation is bad, no matter what.  Obama is making it worse, Romney will do better.



Quoting Sisteract:



Honey one is bad and the other is worse.



I thought the GOP would cultivate a better candidate with a real plan... guess the complaining for 3 years distracted from that goal.



They did not.



HOW could you endorse that approach-"he did it too"?



What we know of MR's plan- is eerily similar to Ws- how did that work for America?



Quoting Meadowchik:



And Obama's plan is mathematically impossible at current rates of growth.  How can you discount this???



Quoting Sisteract:



I go by what they said.



Ryan did not answer the questions asked.



His stated economic plan was found to be mathematically impossible by factchecker. HOW CAN PEOPLE DISCOUNT THIS?



Parse the act from the words/message.



Of the 4 who have debated so far, Biden is the only one who has presented facts, incorporated actual applicable experience and knowledge. Was he rude while calling out the miscues, fabrications and contributions? Yes. Were his statements and assertions wrong? No.



 






 


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viv212
by Gold Member on Oct. 12, 2012 at 4:16 PM
1 mom liked this
One more thing since people are saying Biden was childish. It was only a debate tactic. He knew that by smirking it was getting under Ryan's skin and it worked. And it showed. It reminded me of a boxing match where there's an older retired fighter vs the new young boxer. Experience triumphs over probably all the time. Biden knew exactly what he was doing.

And you could tell when Ryan sounded like a high school girl saying, "we know you're under duress..." Making a personal type call like that is more childish then the laughing. Half of America was laughing with Biden.
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Meadowchik
by Silver Member on Oct. 13, 2012 at 7:28 AM

 Actually as a tactic it was rather ineffective.  Ryan still gave detailed, compelling arguments.  Without the laughing, Biden would have looked more presidential, IMO.  Otherwise he does not look like anyone who should be representing our country.

Quoting viv212:

One more thing since people are saying Biden was childish. It was only a debate tactic. He knew that by smirking it was getting under Ryan's skin and it worked. And it showed. It reminded me of a boxing match where there's an older retired fighter vs the new young boxer. Experience triumphs over probably all the time. Biden knew exactly what he was doing.

And you could tell when Ryan sounded like a high school girl saying, "we know you're under duress..." Making a personal type call like that is more childish then the laughing. Half of America was laughing with Biden.

 

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