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Should 98% of America lose tax cuts because the GOP/Top2%?

Obama To Boehner: Higher Taxes On The Wealthy Or The Bush Tax Cuts Expire

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President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner have each made cursory appeals to cooperation in the wake of Tuesday’s election. But they’re still making incompatible demands about the tax code. And on Friday, President Obama made clear that if Republicans reject the policy goal he campaigned on, all of the Bush tax cuts will expire.

“If we’re serious about reducing the deficit we have to combine spending cuts with revenue, and that means asking the wealthy to pay a little more in taxes,” Obama said in public remarks at the White House. “Right now if Congress fails to come to an agreement on an overall deficit reduction package by the end of the year, everybody’s taxes will automatically go up on January 1.”

In both 2008 and 2012, Obama campaigned on the goal of allowing the Bush tax cuts that exclusively benefit top earners to expire. That would increase the top marginal tax rate from 35 percent to 39.6 percent next year. But Boehner and other Republicans want tax rates off the table and GOP aides suggest higher tax rates can’t pass the Republican House.

In his first post-election press conference, a couple of hours before the President’s statement, Boehner also indicated his willingness to compromise — though he reiterated Republican opposition to raising tax rates. “On Wednesday, I outlined a responsible path forward to avert the fiscal cliff without raising tax rates,” Boehner said.

“There is no mandate for raising tax rates on the American people,” House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said in a Wednesday statement. “There is a mandate for avoiding the fiscal cliff and finding real solutions so we can make life work for people again.”

Obama did leave modest room for negotiations. “I’m not going to ask students and seniors and middle class families to pay down the entire deficit while people like me making over $250,000 aren’t asked to pay a dime more in taxes,” he said.

Boehner could meet Obama’s demand without raising tax rates by limiting tax expenditure benefits for high income people. But for now, Boehner has only suggested that revenues from this sort of base broadening should be used to lower tax rates. Obama, by contrast, is asking the House to pass a Senate bill that would isolate the Bush tax cuts for top earners and allow them to expire.

“The Senate has already passed a bill doing exactly this, so all we need is action from the House,” Obama said. “And I’ve got the pen, ready to sign the bill right away.”

In an official statement, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, echoed the President. “The Senate passed a bill to cut taxes for Americans making less than $250,000, and the House should pass it immediately.”

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney was even more blunt. “He will veto any bill extending Bush era tax cuts for the top two percent of wage earners in this country.”

That leaves the onus on Boehner to either pass that bill, or find an equivalent way to take the same amount of new revenue from high income earners. So far, he and other GOP leaders seem unwilling.

“”The increased tax rates that would be allowed under the Senate-passed bill are part of the fiscal cliff that economists are warning us to avoid,” Boehner said in response to the Presidents remarks. “Those increased tax rates will destroy jobs in America by hurting small businesses across the country.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell was more strident. “[T]here is no consensus on raising tax rates, which would undermine the jobs and growth we all believe are important to our economy,” McConnell said. “While I appreciate and share the President’s desire to put the election behind us, the fact is we still have yet to hear an actual plan from the President for addressing the great economic challenges we face. What’s needed now is a realistic and specific proposal from the President that can actually pass the Congress.”

They’ve left themselves some wiggle room. But if they don’t squeeze themselves through it, Obama said, everyone’s taxes go up at the end of the year.


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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

by on Nov. 11, 2012 at 4:45 PM
Replies (171-180):
brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 1:59 PM

When it comes to balancing the budget yes it will.

Quoting BoysManDog:


And increasing INCOME taxes on those who make $250,000 or more is not going to help anything.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

I answered that already. But I will answer it again.

I don't know if you missed it. But we went through a major recession that almost turned to a depression. The middle/lower class is still hurt from it. A lot of those people are in areas where they can afford an increase in Taxes.

However the top few %'s of our country are doing exceedingly well. In which case it DOES make sense to raise taxes on them.

Like I said earlier if people across the board were doing well and the majority of our wealth was not stuck in the top few %'s it would make sense to tax everyone more. But right now the only people enjoying that type of life are the people in the top few %'s.


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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

BoysManDog
by Bronze Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 2:08 PM

 

With Obama's proposed spending increases?  That's utterly preposterous. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

When it comes to balancing the budget yes it will.

Quoting BoysManDog:

 

And increasing INCOME taxes on those who make $250,000 or more is not going to help anything.

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 2:20 PM
1 mom liked this

Are you just repeating a Republican Talking point?

Because last I check he plans to reduce the Defict by 4 Trillion dollars over the next 12 years.

The only real way to start making a dent in the budget is to both reduce spending and increase taxes. Doing one while not doing the other is a silly stance to take. Or at best, a literal, half effort.


Quoting BoysManDog:


With Obama's proposed spending increases?  That's utterly preposterous. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

When it comes to balancing the budget yes it will.

Quoting BoysManDog:


And increasing INCOME taxes on those who make $250,000 or more is not going to help anything.


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The Ninety-Nine Percent Moms   

If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

BoysManDog
by Bronze Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 2:37 PM
1 mom liked this

 

No, but you might as well work for the Obama spin campaign because you can't REALLY believe this tripe.  Yeah, sure.  And he also cut the deficit in half in his first term.  And unemployment never got above 8%.  And he also got it down to 5%.  And, so yeah, OF COURSE, he plans to "balance the budget" even though every indicator shows government spending outpacing revenue for years to come.  You choose to believe Puff the Magic President.  I live in the real world. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Are you just repeating a Republican Talking point?

Because last I check he plans to reduce the Defict by 4 Trillion dollars over the next 12 years.

The only real way to start making a dent in the budget is to both reduce spending and increase taxes. Doing one while not doing the other is a silly stance to take. Or at best, a literal, half effort.


brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 3:01 PM

Well who knows what would have happened if Republicans / GOP didn't make it their Goal to to make President Obama a 1 term President.

For example. Right now. He wants to raise taxes on the top 2% of America. There is proof that this will NOT impact job Growth. This WOULD help balance the budget.

But here we have the GOP/Republicans fighting tooth and nail about it.

So are you really going to be against EVERYTHING he does that doesn't immediately solve the entire budget and fix our deficit the instant it is passed?

http://www.nationalmemo.com/watch-what-led-us-to-the-fiscal-cliff/


Quote:

The Center for American Progress’ Michael Linden explains the laws passed during the Bush administration along with the wars and the bad economy over a decade made up 86 percent of the debt we’ve accumulated since 2001. President Obama’s spending and the stimulus are responsible for only 14 percent.






Quoting BoysManDog:


No, but you might as well work for the Obama spin campaign because you can't REALLY believe this tripe.  Yeah, sure.  And he also cut the deficit in half in his first term.  And unemployment never got above 8%.  And he also got it down to 5%.  And, so yeah, OF COURSE, he plans to "balance the budget" even though every indicator shows government spending outpacing revenue for years to come.  You choose to believe Puff the Magic President.  I live in the real world. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Are you just repeating a Republican Talking point?

Because last I check he plans to reduce the Defict by 4 Trillion dollars over the next 12 years.

The only real way to start making a dent in the budget is to both reduce spending and increase taxes. Doing one while not doing the other is a silly stance to take. Or at best, a literal, half effort.



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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 5:55 PM

Because as I said a minimum of 3 times in this thread and what you and your 5th grader who did the math do not understand, IT IS NOT THE FULL AMOUNT THAT GETS TAXED AT THE HIGHEST RATE.  These are MARGINAL rates.   NO ONE pays 39.6% income tax rate on all of their income.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE and it is not how taxes work.  From this quick thing you can see EVERYONE including the richest people pay 10% up to 8700.  The money you make between 8700 and 35350 is taxed at 15%.  And so on.  They do not use your highest tax rate on all of your income.  Your income is taxes at the same rate at the same level as anyone else, rich or poor.  Look up tax rate and effective tax rate.

Look it up or ask anyone.

  • 10% on taxable income from $0 to $8,700, plus
  • 15% on taxable income over $8,700 to $35,350, plus
  • 25% on taxable income over $35,350 to $85,650, plus
  • 28% on taxable income over $85,650 to $178,650, plus
  • 33% on taxable income over $178,650 to $388,350, plus
  • 35% on taxable income over $388,350.
Quoting silver007:

How do you figure that raising the federal tax rate from 35% of that family's AGI to 39.6% of their AGI iso a $1500 tax increase?

A family making $300K AGI owes $105,000 federal tax at 35%

At 39.6% obama rate, they will owe $118,000 federal tax on $300K 

Surely obama is right and lots of families have an extra $13000 laying around so they might as well pay it in tax

He admits taking that much more of their income  won't do diddly to reduce the deficit , but it's "fair"

disclaimer: My 5th grader did this math

Quoting stacymomof2:

And lets not forget, that with this tax increase, someone making 300grand a year will be paying about $1500 more in taxes.  Not $9000 more.  $1500 more.  And that's if their accountant can't find a way to deduct or invest another $50 grand.  



BoysManDog
by Bronze Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 6:18 PM

 

Center for American Progress?  Yeah, ok, then. 

And gee, I seem to recall those first TWO years of O's term wherein the libs had control of everything?  Did the GOP have some sort of mind meld going then?  Ah, wait!  GWB GWB GWB? 

Well, let's meet back here in 12 years, and then you libs can blame the fact that Obama's "plan" didn't work on GWB.  Because that is all you have. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Well who knows what would have happened if Republicans / GOP didn't make it their Goal to to make President Obama a 1 term President.

For example. Right now. He wants to raise taxes on the top 2% of America. There is proof that this will NOT impact job Growth. This WOULD help balance the budget.

But here we have the GOP/Republicans fighting tooth and nail about it.

So are you really going to be against EVERYTHING he does that doesn't immediately solve the entire budget and fix our deficit the instant it is passed?

http://www.nationalmemo.com/watch-what-led-us-to-the-fiscal-cliff/


 

 

momsince1989
by on Nov. 14, 2012 at 6:41 PM

 “I’m not going to ask students and seniors and middle class families to pay down the entire deficit while people like me making over $250,000 aren’t asked to pay a dime more in taxes,” he said.

Those cuts should be made permanent and then after another decade of the rich being taxed and we have spending and deficit under control flatten out the code.

brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Nov. 14, 2012 at 7:21 PM
1 mom liked this

I don't think I have mentioned George W. Bush.

The only person who mentioned him is YOU.

Perhaps we are having a repeat of when every Republican/GOP member was saying that Mitt Romney will win by a landslide. And anyone who says otherwise is only saying that because they are bias. And any data/poll/meta-analysis that says otherwise is bias/wrong and using bias/wrong methods.

Luckily then we had a result that would burst the bubble.


Quoting BoysManDog:


Center for American Progress?  Yeah, ok, then. 

And gee, I seem to recall those first TWO years of O's term wherein the libs had control of everything?  Did the GOP have some sort of mind meld going then?  Ah, wait!  GWB GWB GWB? 

Well, let's meet back here in 12 years, and then you libs can blame the fact that Obama's "plan" didn't work on GWB.  Because that is all you have. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Well who knows what would have happened if Republicans / GOP didn't make it their Goal to to make President Obama a 1 term President.

For example. Right now. He wants to raise taxes on the top 2% of America. There is proof that this will NOT impact job Growth. This WOULD help balance the budget.

But here we have the GOP/Republicans fighting tooth and nail about it.

So are you really going to be against EVERYTHING he does that doesn't immediately solve the entire budget and fix our deficit the instant it is passed?

http://www.nationalmemo.com/watch-what-led-us-to-the-fiscal-cliff/


 



Join us on the 99% Moms group!
The Ninety-Nine Percent Moms   

If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

afwifeandmommy3
by Bronze Member on Nov. 30, 2012 at 11:26 PM
Yes he is calling there bluff but may destroy the lower and middle class

Quoting stacymomof2:

Right, they have to agree or the law providing for the lower tax rates expires.  When Bush wrote that law he set them to expire 10 years later.  So it shouldn't be news to us but people forget quickly, and have now changed it to "Obama is raising taxes!"  After the economy crashed there was no problem extending the tax cut.  Now that some recovery has happened, Obama is getting tough.  He will veto any law that doesn't raise taxes for the quarter million plus club, thereby forcing the Republican's hands.  They will have to agree with him or watch all the tax cuts go away.

Quoting turtle68:

 ahhhh dont know how I missed that word expire...should have LOL  So neither parties can control what is essentially something that has an expiry date.  Its either all or compromise.


Quoting stacymomof2:


The tax cuts are set to expire.  They were extended last time, now it is getting close to the end of the extension.  So Obama is saying pass a new extension that doesn't include the top 2% or he will veto the extension, thereby allowing the tax cuts to expire and revert back to Clinton era tax rates.  Obama's proposal continues the tax cuts to the lower income earners, and raises the tax rates on higher income earners by 3%.  Yep, 3%.  All this hysteria so people who make over a quarter of a million dollars a year do not have to pay 3% more of taxes on any income earned over $250 thousand dollars.  Sounds ridiculous when it's spelled out, doesn't it.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/05/democrats-dont-want-to-go-back-to-clinton-era-rates/


Quoting turtle68:


 I asked the same question in the other post.  What I would like to understand is how either can go through congress?


If the 2% cant be taxed because the Republicans wont pass it....then how can the 98% be taxed?


Do they come to a stalemate and move on to other issues or do they keep negotiating until 4 more years have passed?




 


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