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Should 98% of America lose tax cuts because the GOP/Top2%?

Obama To Boehner: Higher Taxes On The Wealthy Or The Bush Tax Cuts Expire

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President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner have each made cursory appeals to cooperation in the wake of Tuesday’s election. But they’re still making incompatible demands about the tax code. And on Friday, President Obama made clear that if Republicans reject the policy goal he campaigned on, all of the Bush tax cuts will expire.

“If we’re serious about reducing the deficit we have to combine spending cuts with revenue, and that means asking the wealthy to pay a little more in taxes,” Obama said in public remarks at the White House. “Right now if Congress fails to come to an agreement on an overall deficit reduction package by the end of the year, everybody’s taxes will automatically go up on January 1.”

In both 2008 and 2012, Obama campaigned on the goal of allowing the Bush tax cuts that exclusively benefit top earners to expire. That would increase the top marginal tax rate from 35 percent to 39.6 percent next year. But Boehner and other Republicans want tax rates off the table and GOP aides suggest higher tax rates can’t pass the Republican House.

In his first post-election press conference, a couple of hours before the President’s statement, Boehner also indicated his willingness to compromise — though he reiterated Republican opposition to raising tax rates. “On Wednesday, I outlined a responsible path forward to avert the fiscal cliff without raising tax rates,” Boehner said.

“There is no mandate for raising tax rates on the American people,” House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said in a Wednesday statement. “There is a mandate for avoiding the fiscal cliff and finding real solutions so we can make life work for people again.”

Obama did leave modest room for negotiations. “I’m not going to ask students and seniors and middle class families to pay down the entire deficit while people like me making over $250,000 aren’t asked to pay a dime more in taxes,” he said.

Boehner could meet Obama’s demand without raising tax rates by limiting tax expenditure benefits for high income people. But for now, Boehner has only suggested that revenues from this sort of base broadening should be used to lower tax rates. Obama, by contrast, is asking the House to pass a Senate bill that would isolate the Bush tax cuts for top earners and allow them to expire.

“The Senate has already passed a bill doing exactly this, so all we need is action from the House,” Obama said. “And I’ve got the pen, ready to sign the bill right away.”

In an official statement, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, echoed the President. “The Senate passed a bill to cut taxes for Americans making less than $250,000, and the House should pass it immediately.”

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney was even more blunt. “He will veto any bill extending Bush era tax cuts for the top two percent of wage earners in this country.”

That leaves the onus on Boehner to either pass that bill, or find an equivalent way to take the same amount of new revenue from high income earners. So far, he and other GOP leaders seem unwilling.

“”The increased tax rates that would be allowed under the Senate-passed bill are part of the fiscal cliff that economists are warning us to avoid,” Boehner said in response to the Presidents remarks. “Those increased tax rates will destroy jobs in America by hurting small businesses across the country.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell was more strident. “[T]here is no consensus on raising tax rates, which would undermine the jobs and growth we all believe are important to our economy,” McConnell said. “While I appreciate and share the President’s desire to put the election behind us, the fact is we still have yet to hear an actual plan from the President for addressing the great economic challenges we face. What’s needed now is a realistic and specific proposal from the President that can actually pass the Congress.”

They’ve left themselves some wiggle room. But if they don’t squeeze themselves through it, Obama said, everyone’s taxes go up at the end of the year.


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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

by on Nov. 11, 2012 at 4:45 PM
Replies (261-270):
rocketracer
by Silver Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 1:26 PM

We know taxes aren't based on the honor system.  How many gov't employees failed to pay the correct amount of taxes?  Charlie Rangel and Tim Geithner.... 

I don't think it's more honorable to file a tax return loaded with deductions.   

Quoting brookiecookie87:

You did say that. You said if they want to pay more then they should pay more. But taxes are not based on an honor system.

No one is saying, "Please allow us to pay more if we choose too". That is vastly different than asking for higher taxes on the top 2%.

So different that when I throw the comparison back at you, you say, "did i say that....NO!" Neither did we.

Quoting rocketracer:

did i say that.....NO! 

The pledge I stated would cause more tax money to be collected from those who want to collect more taxes.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Do you believe taxes should be 0% and based on an honor system on how much you think taxes should be?

Because that is a rather silly system.

Quoting rocketracer:

All of those who want to increase taxes, should take a pledge that they and/or their tax accountants/preppers should NOT take advantage of a single tax loophole/deduction/gift for the next four years.  If they really don't mind tax increases, they should lead by example.

 

 

 


brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 1:43 PM

I am just pointing out the sillyness of suggesting that the people who want to raise taxes should choose to pay more based on their belief.

That's just not the way the Tax System works. Nor should it be. I would agree that our Tax System should be changed. And the tax loopholes/deductions that don't promote growth (Here in America) need to be taken away/fixed.


Quoting rocketracer:

We know taxes aren't based on the honor system.  How many gov't employees failed to pay the correct amount of taxes?  Charlie Rangel and Tim Geithner.... 

I don't think it's more honorable to file a tax return loaded with deductions.   

Quoting brookiecookie87:

You did say that. You said if they want to pay more then they should pay more. But taxes are not based on an honor system.

No one is saying, "Please allow us to pay more if we choose too". That is vastly different than asking for higher taxes on the top 2%.

So different that when I throw the comparison back at you, you say, "did i say that....NO!" Neither did we.

Quoting rocketracer:

did i say that.....NO! 

The pledge I stated would cause more tax money to be collected from those who want to collect more taxes.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Do you believe taxes should be 0% and based on an honor system on how much you think taxes should be?

Because that is a rather silly system.

Quoting rocketracer:

All of those who want to increase taxes, should take a pledge that they and/or their tax accountants/preppers should NOT take advantage of a single tax loophole/deduction/gift for the next four years.  If they really don't mind tax increases, they should lead by example.






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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

LadyBugMom09
by Silver Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 3:20 PM
1 mom liked this
That is the case. The middle cllass is only on the table now because Obama put them on the table. If HE cared, he would never have put them there in the first place and would have tried other measures to get his way then use the middle class as a political pawn.

HE made a promise to not tax the middle class so HE should have never ever even played that card. I'm sorry, but political blackmail at the expense of your middle class isn't becoming of a POTUS.

If the middle class taxes go up it will be on Obama, not the GOP because HE is willing to not extend the Bush tax cuts. Obama has all the power to extend the Bush tax cuts for the middle class and HE will let us fall if he doesn't get his way.

Again, he and only he put the middle class on the table in order to force the GOP to bend to his will. HE and ONLY he made a promise too not tax the middle class and if HE and only he allows it to happen, then HE and only he will be reponsible for breakingg his promise to us.

A good leader never uses his people as a political pawn, and that's exactly what he's doing.

And even though fox may be the highest rating news show, they are still outnumbered 10 to 1. They're probably so high ranking because all the llibs are watching them in order tto refute them. ;)


Quoting brookiecookie87:

But that is not the case.

It's plain to see that President Obama is trying to extend the tax cuts on the 98%.

The GOP/Republicans are refusing because they want the top 2% to get it too. Which would lead to an increase for everyone. If the GOP/Republicans call his bluff that is their doing. That would not be President Obama's choice. That would be their choice.

If what you were saying is true then the GOP/Republicans would accept the extensions for 98% of America and THEN try and work on getting Tax Extensions/cuts for the top 2%. But they know their best bet is to hold 98% of America hostage and say, "If we do not get it neither do they".

And again if you say President Obama is doing the same thing. I would agree. The main difference is President Obama is focusing on getting 98% of America those extensions. The GOP/Republicans are focused on getting the Top 2% those extensions.

And you do realize the News Network with the highest ratings is Fox News, right? Fox News is not on President Obama's side. And if i go to McDonalds, the Dentist, the doctors off, or a store and there is a TV on it is almost always on Fox News. if I am lucky CNN but almost always Fox News.

I wish my family could understand that you can disagree on Politics and not hate each other :X


Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I disagree. I don't think this will be good for the democratic or the republican party. Obama is the one who made the promise to not raise taxes on the 98%. Not the GOP. Obama is the one who brought the 98% into the mix. Not the GOP. If Obama allows this to happen, it will be him breaking his own promise, because he doesn't have to allow it to happen.



This is what I think happened with Obama and his peeps: "I want to raise taxes on the top 2%, but the GOP isn't going to let it happen. What can I do? Whhat can I do?? Hmmmm...... I know!!! I will threaten to raise everyones taxes, including the middle class!!"



The middle class was never on the table. The issue was always about the 2%. Who put the middle class on the table?? Obama and only Obama. NOT the GOP.



But, of course, Obama hhas the media on his side who will help him spin it to make the GOP look evil and as if this was their doing. When truly, the only one who did this is Obama.



I am also glad we have finally managed to have a conversation that is intelligent and civil. I may actually like you....a little. ;)





Quoting brookiecookie87:

This is something that is Opinion based so it makes sense for us to disagree on it.

I respect that you have remained civil about the whole matter.

I don't believe that Republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich. But if President Obama says he will extend them for 98% of America and the GOP/Republicans refuse it because the 2% are not included.

It seems pretty clear they care more about the Top2% than the rest of the 98%. Not that they don't care about them at all. Just that they care about the Top 2% more (Even if it is a little more).

I do agree that it is President Obama's 'play'. Because if they agree he wins. And if the Republicans/GOP refuse they will be painted as the people who put the Top 2% over 98% of America. Which is a win for the Democrat party.



Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I am sorry, but I disagree with your point of view. By saying that, essentiially you're saying that republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich, and I don't believe that. I believe republicans care about all ammericans and want to keep taxes low for all.





This is Obam's play. The Repubs NEVER brought the middle classs into it. It's OBAMA that that brought the middle class and the poor into this game. We will see if he really cares. If Obama let's the tax cuts expire, then he will essentially be going back on his word to not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250K a year.





Again, Obama is the POTUS. HE has the power to extend the Bush tax cuts, or raise them for everyone. And since he has shown that it's HIS way or the highway, get ready for higher taxes.








Quoting brookiecookie87:

I already said I agree with that.

President Obama is using the Middle Class to get the middle class (and 98% of America) tax cut Extensions.

The GOP/Republicans are using the Middle Class to get the top 2% tax cut extensions.

Do you see the difference? Again-They are both using the same tactic. The main difference is President Obama's goal is to get the tax cuts extended for 98% of America while the GOP/Republicans are trying to get it for the top 2%.

If the GOP/Republicans were not doing JUST for the 2% they would agree with President Obama's proposal.

But you are wrong. They are not worried about the 98%. They are worried about the top 2%. President Obama doesn't want to tax 98% of America. His Proposal says that.

However, the GOP/Republicans could care less about the other 98% of America. If  they did care about the other 98% and if they were not fighting for JUST the top 2% they would be willing to agree with his proposal. And since some Republicans have been dismissing the No Tax Pledge it seems like some Republicans understand this and want to change it.

I am glad that we can at least agree that they are playing the same game.




Quoting LadyBugMom09:

What I am saying DOES make sense. Obama IS ussing the middle class to try too get his way. He essentially is telling the GOP, do it MY way or I will let the tax cuts expire for everyone.







The GOP is not fighting JUST for the 2%. Tthey are fighting for the 100%. Tax cuts for ALL. They dont want ANYONES taxes to increase. Thats not diffficult to understand. OBAMA is the one that wants to tax the 2% and if he doesn't get his way then HE will tax the 100%.







And if you read my PPs, you would see that I DID say that both the GOP AND Obama are playing a political game of chicken. I CAN admit that.











Quoting brookiecookie87:

But what you are saying doesn't make any sense. What would President Obama have to gain?

He is using the Middle Class (Or 98% of America) to help them keep their Tax Cuts while letting them expire for the Top 2%.

Oppose to the GOP/Republicans who are using the Middle Class (Or 98% of America) to help keep tax extensions for the Top 2%.

If you are refusing to see that President Obama and the GOP/Republicans are doing the same thing then you are blinded by bias. They both want something and they are both willing to let tax cuts expire for everyone for it.

The main difference is President Obama is fighting for the tax cuts to be extended for 98% of America. The GOP/Republicans are fighting for them to be extended for 2% of America.

And that is a HUGE Difference.














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brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 3:32 PM

You do realize it is not President Obama's job to make the budget, right? That is the job of the Congress. Oddly for some reason he (And the Democratic party) is the one presenting a proposal.

If they wanted they could let all the tax Cuts expire.

However, they are trying to extend the Tax Cuts on 98% of America. That doesn't mean they hate 98% of America. That doesn't mean they are trying to hurt 98% of America. That means THEY Democrats want to extend the Tax Cuts for 98% of America.

If the GOP/Republicans cared about 98% of America-They would accept it. And then if they wanted to negotiate about the top 2% they could. But they are not doing that. They would rather use the 98% as leverage to get the Top 2% a Tax Cut Extension.

The Republicans/GOP counter-proposal/plan? Non-existent.

He made a promise and he is keeping that promise. Bowing down to the GOP/Republicans every desire is not becoming of a President, or leader either. He is making the right choice. If the GOP/Republicans refuse all the Democrats have to do is make another plan to lower taxes for 98% of America. And if the GOP/Republicans decide to refuse that as well it is just going to make them look worse and worse. And since President Obama is the one who is fighting for 98% of America it is going to make him look better and better.


Quoting LadyBugMom09:

That is the case. The middle cllass is only on the table now because Obama put them on the table. If HE cared, he would never have put them there in the first place and would have tried other measures to get his way then use the middle class as a political pawn.

HE made a promise to not tax the middle class so HE should have never ever even played that card. I'm sorry, but political blackmail at the expense of your middle class isn't becoming of a POTUS.

If the middle class taxes go up it will be on Obama, not the GOP because HE is willing to not extend the Bush tax cuts. Obama has all the power to extend the Bush tax cuts for the middle class and HE will let us fall if he doesn't get his way.

Again, he and only he put the middle class on the table in order to force the GOP to bend to his will. HE and ONLY he made a promise too not tax the middle class and if HE and only he allows it to happen, then HE and only he will be reponsible for breakingg his promise to us.

A good leader never uses his people as a political pawn, and that's exactly what he's doing.

And even though fox may be the highest rating news show, they are still outnumbered 10 to 1. They're probably so high ranking because all the llibs are watching them in order tto refute them. ;)


Quoting brookiecookie87:

But that is not the case.

It's plain to see that President Obama is trying to extend the tax cuts on the 98%.

The GOP/Republicans are refusing because they want the top 2% to get it too. Which would lead to an increase for everyone. If the GOP/Republicans call his bluff that is their doing. That would not be President Obama's choice. That would be their choice.

If what you were saying is true then the GOP/Republicans would accept the extensions for 98% of America and THEN try and work on getting Tax Extensions/cuts for the top 2%. But they know their best bet is to hold 98% of America hostage and say, "If we do not get it neither do they".

And again if you say President Obama is doing the same thing. I would agree. The main difference is President Obama is focusing on getting 98% of America those extensions. The GOP/Republicans are focused on getting the Top 2% those extensions.

And you do realize the News Network with the highest ratings is Fox News, right? Fox News is not on President Obama's side. And if i go to McDonalds, the Dentist, the doctors off, or a store and there is a TV on it is almost always on Fox News. if I am lucky CNN but almost always Fox News.

I wish my family could understand that you can disagree on Politics and not hate each other :X


Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I disagree. I don't think this will be good for the democratic or the republican party. Obama is the one who made the promise to not raise taxes on the 98%. Not the GOP. Obama is the one who brought the 98% into the mix. Not the GOP. If Obama allows this to happen, it will be him breaking his own promise, because he doesn't have to allow it to happen.



This is what I think happened with Obama and his peeps: "I want to raise taxes on the top 2%, but the GOP isn't going to let it happen. What can I do? Whhat can I do?? Hmmmm...... I know!!! I will threaten to raise everyones taxes, including the middle class!!"



The middle class was never on the table. The issue was always about the 2%. Who put the middle class on the table?? Obama and only Obama. NOT the GOP.



But, of course, Obama hhas the media on his side who will help him spin it to make the GOP look evil and as if this was their doing. When truly, the only one who did this is Obama.



I am also glad we have finally managed to have a conversation that is intelligent and civil. I may actually like you....a little. ;)

Quoting brookiecookie87:

This is something that is Opinion based so it makes sense for us to disagree on it.

I respect that you have remained civil about the whole matter.

I don't believe that Republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich. But if President Obama says he will extend them for 98% of America and the GOP/Republicans refuse it because the 2% are not included.

It seems pretty clear they care more about the Top2% than the rest of the 98%. Not that they don't care about them at all. Just that they care about the Top 2% more (Even if it is a little more).

I do agree that it is President Obama's 'play'. Because if they agree he wins. And if the Republicans/GOP refuse they will be painted as the people who put the Top 2% over 98% of America. Which is a win for the Democrat party.

Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I am sorry, but I disagree with your point of view. By saying that, essentiially you're saying that republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich, and I don't believe that. I believe republicans care about all ammericans and want to keep taxes low for all.


This is Obam's play. The Repubs NEVER brought the middle classs into it. It's OBAMA that that brought the middle class and the poor into this game. We will see if he really cares. If Obama let's the tax cuts expire, then he will essentially be going back on his word to not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250K a year.


Again, Obama is the POTUS. HE has the power to extend the Bush tax cuts, or raise them for everyone. And since he has shown that it's HIS way or the highway, get ready for higher taxes.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

I already said I agree with that.

President Obama is using the Middle Class to get the middle class (and 98% of America) tax cut Extensions.

The GOP/Republicans are using the Middle Class to get the top 2% tax cut extensions.

Do you see the difference? Again-They are both using the same tactic. The main difference is President Obama's goal is to get the tax cuts extended for 98% of America while the GOP/Republicans are trying to get it for the top 2%.

If the GOP/Republicans were not doing JUST for the 2% they would agree with President Obama's proposal.

But you are wrong. They are not worried about the 98%. They are worried about the top 2%. President Obama doesn't want to tax 98% of America. His Proposal says that.

However, the GOP/Republicans could care less about the other 98% of America. If  they did care about the other 98% and if they were not fighting for JUST the top 2% they would be willing to agree with his proposal. And since some Republicans have been dismissing the No Tax Pledge it seems like some Republicans understand this and want to change it.

I am glad that we can at least agree that they are playing the same game.


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If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

LadyBugMom09
by Silver Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 4:11 PM
The fact still remains that if Obama hadn't put the middle class on the table, we wouldn't be discussing it. He keeps rejecting every proposal the GOP makes because it's not his way. If it doesn't include over taxing the 2%, he doesn't want to hear it.

Sorry, but Obama is tthreatening to tax the middle class. Not the GOP.

He can let the tax cuts expire and that's totally up to him. He is NOT keeping his promise, because if he cared about the 98% not being taxed, he would just say, "I will extend the Bush tax cuts and figure out another way to win over the GOP and find a solution other than taxing them." HE made the promise. HE should keep it. If middle class taxes go up even one cent, HE will have broken his promise.

The one who makes promises should be the one to keep them. Not hhold others responsible for not being able to do so.

Like he himself said, HE is holding the pen. HE has the power. If HIS pride is bigger than sacrificing his ego over taxing the 2% or getting his way, that's on him. I hold the POTUS, regardless of party, to a higher standard than the house and senate. HE is doing this. HE is threatening it. What threats has the GOP made?? When did the GOP throw the middle class on the table and under the bus???

Sorry. You're never going to convince me. This is Obama's move and HIS play. HE chose to hold the middle class over the cliff in a game of chicken and I don't think he is being wise.

I don't even know why he's so stubborn on this issue. So many economists have already said it isn't going to work. So why not only continue, but now threaten to overtax and already overtaxed nation?? It doesn't make sense. Obama is just too proud and too stubborn. It's his way or no way. And I can guarantee that if the GOP bends to his will and taxes the 2%, it won't work and come two years from now, HE and the Dems will find a way to point the finger at the GOP like they are doing now and like they have always done.


Quoting brookiecookie87:

You do realize it is not President Obama's job to make the budget, right? That is the job of the Congress. Oddly for some reason he (And the Democratic party) is the one presenting a proposal.

If they wanted they could let all the tax Cuts expire.

However, they are trying to extend the Tax Cuts on 98% of America. That doesn't mean they hate 98% of America. That doesn't mean they are trying to hurt 98% of America. That means THEY Democrats want to extend the Tax Cuts for 98% of America.

If the GOP/Republicans cared about 98% of America-They would accept it. And then if they wanted to negotiate about the top 2% they could. But they are not doing that. They would rather use the 98% as leverage to get the Top 2% a Tax Cut Extension.

The Republicans/GOP counter-proposal/plan? Non-existent.

He made a promise and he is keeping that promise. Bowing down to the GOP/Republicans every desire is not becoming of a President, or leader either. He is making the right choice. If the GOP/Republicans refuse all the Democrats have to do is make another plan to lower taxes for 98% of America. And if the GOP/Republicans decide to refuse that as well it is just going to make them look worse and worse. And since President Obama is the one who is fighting for 98% of America it is going to make him look better and better.



Quoting LadyBugMom09:

That is the case. The middle cllass is only on the table now because Obama put them on the table. If HE cared, he would never have put them there in the first place and would have tried other measures to get his way then use the middle class as a political pawn.



HE made a promise to not tax the middle class so HE should have never ever even played that card. I'm sorry, but political blackmail at the expense of your middle class isn't becoming of a POTUS.



If the middle class taxes go up it will be on Obama, not the GOP because HE is willing to not extend the Bush tax cuts. Obama has all the power to extend the Bush tax cuts for the middle class and HE will let us fall if he doesn't get his way.



Again, he and only he put the middle class on the table in order to force the GOP to bend to his will. HE and ONLY he made a promise too not tax the middle class and if HE and only he allows it to happen, then HE and only he will be reponsible for breakingg his promise to us.



A good leader never uses his people as a political pawn, and that's exactly what he's doing.



And even though fox may be the highest rating news show, they are still outnumbered 10 to 1. They're probably so high ranking because all the llibs are watching them in order tto refute them. ;)





Quoting brookiecookie87:

But that is not the case.

It's plain to see that President Obama is trying to extend the tax cuts on the 98%.

The GOP/Republicans are refusing because they want the top 2% to get it too. Which would lead to an increase for everyone. If the GOP/Republicans call his bluff that is their doing. That would not be President Obama's choice. That would be their choice.

If what you were saying is true then the GOP/Republicans would accept the extensions for 98% of America and THEN try and work on getting Tax Extensions/cuts for the top 2%. But they know their best bet is to hold 98% of America hostage and say, "If we do not get it neither do they".

And again if you say President Obama is doing the same thing. I would agree. The main difference is President Obama is focusing on getting 98% of America those extensions. The GOP/Republicans are focused on getting the Top 2% those extensions.

And you do realize the News Network with the highest ratings is Fox News, right? Fox News is not on President Obama's side. And if i go to McDonalds, the Dentist, the doctors off, or a store and there is a TV on it is almost always on Fox News. if I am lucky CNN but almost always Fox News.

I wish my family could understand that you can disagree on Politics and not hate each other :X



Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I disagree. I don't think this will be good for the democratic or the republican party. Obama is the one who made the promise to not raise taxes on the 98%. Not the GOP. Obama is the one who brought the 98% into the mix. Not the GOP. If Obama allows this to happen, it will be him breaking his own promise, because he doesn't have to allow it to happen.





This is what I think happened with Obama and his peeps: "I want to raise taxes on the top 2%, but the GOP isn't going to let it happen. What can I do? Whhat can I do?? Hmmmm...... I know!!! I will threaten to raise everyones taxes, including the middle class!!"





The middle class was never on the table. The issue was always about the 2%. Who put the middle class on the table?? Obama and only Obama. NOT the GOP.





But, of course, Obama hhas the media on his side who will help him spin it to make the GOP look evil and as if this was their doing. When truly, the only one who did this is Obama.





I am also glad we have finally managed to have a conversation that is intelligent and civil. I may actually like you....a little. ;)


Quoting brookiecookie87:

This is something that is Opinion based so it makes sense for us to disagree on it.

I respect that you have remained civil about the whole matter.

I don't believe that Republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich. But if President Obama says he will extend them for 98% of America and the GOP/Republicans refuse it because the 2% are not included.

It seems pretty clear they care more about the Top2% than the rest of the 98%. Not that they don't care about them at all. Just that they care about the Top 2% more (Even if it is a little more).

I do agree that it is President Obama's 'play'. Because if they agree he wins. And if the Republicans/GOP refuse they will be painted as the people who put the Top 2% over 98% of America. Which is a win for the Democrat party.


Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I am sorry, but I disagree with your point of view. By saying that, essentiially you're saying that republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich, and I don't believe that. I believe republicans care about all ammericans and want to keep taxes low for all.



This is Obam's play. The Repubs NEVER brought the middle classs into it. It's OBAMA that that brought the middle class and the poor into this game. We will see if he really cares. If Obama let's the tax cuts expire, then he will essentially be going back on his word to not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250K a year.




Again, Obama is the POTUS. HE has the power to extend the Bush tax cuts, or raise them for everyone. And since he has shown that it's HIS way or the highway, get ready for higher taxes.


Quoting brookiecookie87:

I already said I agree with that.

President Obama is using the Middle Class to get the middle class (and 98% of America) tax cut Extensions.

The GOP/Republicans are using the Middle Class to get the top 2% tax cut extensions.

Do you see the difference? Again-They are both using the same tactic. The main difference is President Obama's goal is to get the tax cuts extended for 98% of America while the GOP/Republicans are trying to get it for the top 2%.

If the GOP/Republicans were not doing JUST for the 2% they would agree with President Obama's proposal.

But you are wrong. They are not worried about the 98%. They are worried about the top 2%. President Obama doesn't want to tax 98% of America. His Proposal says that.

However, the GOP/Republicans could care less about the other 98% of America. If  they did care about the other 98% and if they were not fighting for JUST the top 2% they would be willing to agree with his proposal. And since some Republicans have been dismissing the No Tax Pledge it seems like some Republicans understand this and want to change it.

I am glad that we can at least agree that they are playing the same game.






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brookiecookie87
by Platinum Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 4:34 PM
1 mom liked this

For that the be the case these Taxes would have had to been permanent. They were never meant to be here forever.

They were suppose to expire.

President Obama plans to extend them for 98% of America.

The GOP/Republicans are willing to let them expire if the Top 2% don't get them too.

We have done this conversation several times now.

Could you link to any of these Proposals that the GOP have made? Because I have never heard  of any of them. Unless by Proposal you mean, "Give us everything we won't and forget about anything you want". For example-The GOP keeps saying they want spending cuts-And the Democrats have offered spending cuts but it will never be enough for the GOP. They haven't once went into detail or proposal a plan detailing what they want, what they want to be cut, and by how much.

President Obama is proposing to extend Taxes on 98% of America. How is that threatening to tax the Middle class?

Think of it this way.

I am going to use your words.

President Obama here is threatening the GOP with, "You better extend Taxes on the Middle Class and 98% of America! if you don't I will raise their taxes! Ha!". That doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Because President Obama is proposing to extend the Tax Cuts on 98% of America.

It's the Republicans/GOP who are saying, "If you don't give the Top 2% the Tax Cuts as well, then everyone will lose them!". That is threatening to raise Taxes on the middle class.

It wouldn't make sense to threaten to raise taxes on the middle class to keep tax cuts for 98% of America. Don't make any sense.

It makes perfect sense for someone to threaten to increase taxes on 98% of America to get tax cuts on the Top 2% though. That makes perfect sense if someone values the top 2% more than 98% of America.

There is no one item/event that is going to fix our economy and budget. It's going to take a lot of work from a lot of areas to get it done. If we are not going to do anything unless it completely 100% fixes everything-We won't ever do anything. Because nothing is ever going to do that.

This is Obama's move. And like I said it's the best move he can make. Either the GOP/Republicans agree. And if they don't agree it paints the Republicans/GOP members as people who care more about the Top 2% than they do 98% of America.

And then democrats can try and push their own Tax Plan that pushes Tax Cuts for 98% of America again. And if the GOP/Republicans deny that one too-It's only going to make them look worse and worse.

Quoting LadyBugMom09:

The fact still remains that if Obama hadn't put the middle class on the table, we wouldn't be discussing it. He keeps rejecting every proposal the GOP makes because it's not his way. If it doesn't include over taxing the 2%, he doesn't want to hear it.

Sorry, but Obama is tthreatening to tax the middle class. Not the GOP.

He can let the tax cuts expire and that's totally up to him. He is NOT keeping his promise, because if he cared about the 98% not being taxed, he would just say, "I will extend the Bush tax cuts and figure out another way to win over the GOP and find a solution other than taxing them." HE made the promise. HE should keep it. If middle class taxes go up even one cent, HE will have broken his promise.

The one who makes promises should be the one to keep them. Not hhold others responsible for not being able to do so.

Like he himself said, HE is holding the pen. HE has the power. If HIS pride is bigger than sacrificing his ego over taxing the 2% or getting his way, that's on him. I hold the POTUS, regardless of party, to a higher standard than the house and senate. HE is doing this. HE is threatening it. What threats has the GOP made?? When did the GOP throw the middle class on the table and under the bus???

Sorry. You're never going to convince me. This is Obama's move and HIS play. HE chose to hold the middle class over the cliff in a game of chicken and I don't think he is being wise.

I don't even know why he's so stubborn on this issue. So many economists have already said it isn't going to work. So why not only continue, but now threaten to overtax and already overtaxed nation?? It doesn't make sense. Obama is just too proud and too stubborn. It's his way or no way. And I can guarantee that if the GOP bends to his will and taxes the 2%, it won't work and come two years from now, HE and the Dems will find a way to point the finger at the GOP like they are doing now and like they have always done.


Quoting brookiecookie87:

You do realize it is not President Obama's job to make the budget, right? That is the job of the Congress. Oddly for some reason he (And the Democratic party) is the one presenting a proposal.

If they wanted they could let all the tax Cuts expire.

However, they are trying to extend the Tax Cuts on 98% of America. That doesn't mean they hate 98% of America. That doesn't mean they are trying to hurt 98% of America. That means THEY Democrats want to extend the Tax Cuts for 98% of America.

If the GOP/Republicans cared about 98% of America-They would accept it. And then if they wanted to negotiate about the top 2% they could. But they are not doing that. They would rather use the 98% as leverage to get the Top 2% a Tax Cut Extension.

The Republicans/GOP counter-proposal/plan? Non-existent.

He made a promise and he is keeping that promise. Bowing down to the GOP/Republicans every desire is not becoming of a President, or leader either. He is making the right choice. If the GOP/Republicans refuse all the Democrats have to do is make another plan to lower taxes for 98% of America. And if the GOP/Republicans decide to refuse that as well it is just going to make them look worse and worse. And since President Obama is the one who is fighting for 98% of America it is going to make him look better and better.



Quoting LadyBugMom09:

That is the case. The middle cllass is only on the table now because Obama put them on the table. If HE cared, he would never have put them there in the first place and would have tried other measures to get his way then use the middle class as a political pawn.



HE made a promise to not tax the middle class so HE should have never ever even played that card. I'm sorry, but political blackmail at the expense of your middle class isn't becoming of a POTUS.



If the middle class taxes go up it will be on Obama, not the GOP because HE is willing to not extend the Bush tax cuts. Obama has all the power to extend the Bush tax cuts for the middle class and HE will let us fall if he doesn't get his way.



Again, he and only he put the middle class on the table in order to force the GOP to bend to his will. HE and ONLY he made a promise too not tax the middle class and if HE and only he allows it to happen, then HE and only he will be reponsible for breakingg his promise to us.



A good leader never uses his people as a political pawn, and that's exactly what he's doing.



And even though fox may be the highest rating news show, they are still outnumbered 10 to 1. They're probably so high ranking because all the llibs are watching them in order tto refute them. ;)





Quoting brookiecookie87:

But that is not the case.

It's plain to see that President Obama is trying to extend the tax cuts on the 98%.

The GOP/Republicans are refusing because they want the top 2% to get it too. Which would lead to an increase for everyone. If the GOP/Republicans call his bluff that is their doing. That would not be President Obama's choice. That would be their choice.

If what you were saying is true then the GOP/Republicans would accept the extensions for 98% of America and THEN try and work on getting Tax Extensions/cuts for the top 2%. But they know their best bet is to hold 98% of America hostage and say, "If we do not get it neither do they".

And again if you say President Obama is doing the same thing. I would agree. The main difference is President Obama is focusing on getting 98% of America those extensions. The GOP/Republicans are focused on getting the Top 2% those extensions.

And you do realize the News Network with the highest ratings is Fox News, right? Fox News is not on President Obama's side. And if i go to McDonalds, the Dentist, the doctors off, or a store and there is a TV on it is almost always on Fox News. if I am lucky CNN but almost always Fox News.

I wish my family could understand that you can disagree on Politics and not hate each other :X



Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I disagree. I don't think this will be good for the democratic or the republican party. Obama is the one who made the promise to not raise taxes on the 98%. Not the GOP. Obama is the one who brought the 98% into the mix. Not the GOP. If Obama allows this to happen, it will be him breaking his own promise, because he doesn't have to allow it to happen.





This is what I think happened with Obama and his peeps: "I want to raise taxes on the top 2%, but the GOP isn't going to let it happen. What can I do? Whhat can I do?? Hmmmm...... I know!!! I will threaten to raise everyones taxes, including the middle class!!"





The middle class was never on the table. The issue was always about the 2%. Who put the middle class on the table?? Obama and only Obama. NOT the GOP.





But, of course, Obama hhas the media on his side who will help him spin it to make the GOP look evil and as if this was their doing. When truly, the only one who did this is Obama.





I am also glad we have finally managed to have a conversation that is intelligent and civil. I may actually like you....a little. ;)


Quoting brookiecookie87:

This is something that is Opinion based so it makes sense for us to disagree on it.

I respect that you have remained civil about the whole matter.

I don't believe that Republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich. But if President Obama says he will extend them for 98% of America and the GOP/Republicans refuse it because the 2% are not included.

It seems pretty clear they care more about the Top2% than the rest of the 98%. Not that they don't care about them at all. Just that they care about the Top 2% more (Even if it is a little more).

I do agree that it is President Obama's 'play'. Because if they agree he wins. And if the Republicans/GOP refuse they will be painted as the people who put the Top 2% over 98% of America. Which is a win for the Democrat party.






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The Ninety-Nine Percent Moms   

If they enforced bank regulations like they do park rules, we wouldn't be in this mess

Sisteract
by Whoopie on Dec. 3, 2012 at 6:13 PM

Amen!

Quoting brookiecookie87:

I am just pointing out the sillyness of suggesting that the people who want to raise taxes should choose to pay more based on their belief.

That's just not the way the Tax System works. Nor should it be. I would agree that our Tax System should be changed. And the tax loopholes/deductions that don't promote growth (Here in America) need to be taken away/fixed.


Quoting rocketracer:

We know taxes aren't based on the honor system.  How many gov't employees failed to pay the correct amount of taxes?  Charlie Rangel and Tim Geithner.... 

I don't think it's more honorable to file a tax return loaded with deductions.   

Quoting brookiecookie87:

You did say that. You said if they want to pay more then they should pay more. But taxes are not based on an honor system.

No one is saying, "Please allow us to pay more if we choose too". That is vastly different than asking for higher taxes on the top 2%.

So different that when I throw the comparison back at you, you say, "did i say that....NO!" Neither did we.

Quoting rocketracer:

did i say that.....NO! 

The pledge I stated would cause more tax money to be collected from those who want to collect more taxes.

Quoting brookiecookie87:

Do you believe taxes should be 0% and based on an honor system on how much you think taxes should be?

Because that is a rather silly system.

Quoting rocketracer:

All of those who want to increase taxes, should take a pledge that they and/or their tax accountants/preppers should NOT take advantage of a single tax loophole/deduction/gift for the next four years.  If they really don't mind tax increases, they should lead by example.







Sisteract
by Whoopie on Dec. 3, 2012 at 6:16 PM
1 mom liked this

The BTCs need to expire- they were never meant to be permanent.

The solutions to our current situation will NOT be painless, for anyone- no one group is exempt, nor should they be-

onethentwins
by Bronze Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 8:15 PM

There's a lot of things they say about themselves that aren't true, like being fiscally responsible even though they made no plan to pay for the last two wars they sent us into. No plan whatsoever. 

Quoting brookiecookie87:

I keep hearing Conservatives/Republicans saying that Democrats/President Obama are trying to destroy the Middle Class.

But President Obama is trying to extend the Tax Cuts for 98% of America. But the GOP/Republicans are refusing to let them get the extension unless the top 2% gets the extension too.

I just don't understand how a Political Party can claim they are for the Middle Class and then turn around and hold them hostage by saying, "Give us Tax Extensions or else we won't pass the extention for the middle class".



ReginaStar
by Gold Member on Dec. 3, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Your insane. If the tax cuts for EVERYONE continue then American will go further and further and further into debt. Is that what you want? All these tax cuts, and loopholes HURT. Tax cuts are NOT a good thing in the long run. They may feel like a good thing at the time but they are creating a debt towards the future. Obama realizes that while the 2% can afford to pay more taxes (their paying the least anyhow with all the loopholes) that the 98% simply can't afford it at this time b/c were barely surviving as it is coming out of a recession. 

The tax cuts expire. That's just the way it is. Obama simply wants to create a new bill that would give tax cuts to those who simply can not afford them at this time. He done extended it one time already. The GOP are despicable for caring more about the top 2% that they'd be willing to let those who simply can't afford it pay more. They know good and damn well those 2% can afford it. They just don't want to pay it, between them being apart of that 2% and those who keep money in their pockets being in the 2% that's all they care about. 

Quoting LadyBugMom09:

That is the case. The middle cllass is only on the table now because Obama put them on the table. If HE cared, he would never have put them there in the first place and would have tried other measures to get his way then use the middle class as a political pawn.

HE made a promise to not tax the middle class so HE should have never ever even played that card. I'm sorry, but political blackmail at the expense of your middle class isn't becoming of a POTUS.

If the middle class taxes go up it will be on Obama, not the GOP because HE is willing to not extend the Bush tax cuts. Obama has all the power to extend the Bush tax cuts for the middle class and HE will let us fall if he doesn't get his way.

Again, he and only he put the middle class on the table in order to force the GOP to bend to his will. HE and ONLY he made a promise too not tax the middle class and if HE and only he allows it to happen, then HE and only he will be reponsible for breakingg his promise to us.

A good leader never uses his people as a political pawn, and that's exactly what he's doing.

And even though fox may be the highest rating news show, they are still outnumbered 10 to 1. They're probably so high ranking because all the llibs are watching them in order tto refute them. ;)


Quoting brookiecookie87:

But that is not the case.

It's plain to see that President Obama is trying to extend the tax cuts on the 98%.

The GOP/Republicans are refusing because they want the top 2% to get it too. Which would lead to an increase for everyone. If the GOP/Republicans call his bluff that is their doing. That would not be President Obama's choice. That would be their choice.

If what you were saying is true then the GOP/Republicans would accept the extensions for 98% of America and THEN try and work on getting Tax Extensions/cuts for the top 2%. But they know their best bet is to hold 98% of America hostage and say, "If we do not get it neither do they".

And again if you say President Obama is doing the same thing. I would agree. The main difference is President Obama is focusing on getting 98% of America those extensions. The GOP/Republicans are focused on getting the Top 2% those extensions.

And you do realize the News Network with the highest ratings is Fox News, right? Fox News is not on President Obama's side. And if i go to McDonalds, the Dentist, the doctors off, or a store and there is a TV on it is almost always on Fox News. if I am lucky CNN but almost always Fox News.

I wish my family could understand that you can disagree on Politics and not hate each other :X


Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I disagree. I don't think this will be good for the democratic or the republican party. Obama is the one who made the promise to not raise taxes on the 98%. Not the GOP. Obama is the one who brought the 98% into the mix. Not the GOP. If Obama allows this to happen, it will be him breaking his own promise, because he doesn't have to allow it to happen.



This is what I think happened with Obama and his peeps: "I want to raise taxes on the top 2%, but the GOP isn't going to let it happen. What can I do? Whhat can I do?? Hmmmm...... I know!!! I will threaten to raise everyones taxes, including the middle class!!"



The middle class was never on the table. The issue was always about the 2%. Who put the middle class on the table?? Obama and only Obama. NOT the GOP.



But, of course, Obama hhas the media on his side who will help him spin it to make the GOP look evil and as if this was their doing. When truly, the only one who did this is Obama.



I am also glad we have finally managed to have a conversation that is intelligent and civil. I may actually like you....a little. ;)





Quoting brookiecookie87:

This is something that is Opinion based so it makes sense for us to disagree on it.

I respect that you have remained civil about the whole matter.

I don't believe that Republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich. But if President Obama says he will extend them for 98% of America and the GOP/Republicans refuse it because the 2% are not included.

It seems pretty clear they care more about the Top2% than the rest of the 98%. Not that they don't care about them at all. Just that they care about the Top 2% more (Even if it is a little more).

I do agree that it is President Obama's 'play'. Because if they agree he wins. And if the Republicans/GOP refuse they will be painted as the people who put the Top 2% over 98% of America. Which is a win for the Democrat party.



Quoting LadyBugMom09:

I am sorry, but I disagree with your point of view. By saying that, essentiially you're saying that republicans don't care about anyone but the super rich, and I don't believe that. I believe republicans care about all ammericans and want to keep taxes low for all.





This is Obam's play. The Repubs NEVER brought the middle classs into it. It's OBAMA that that brought the middle class and the poor into this game. We will see if he really cares. If Obama let's the tax cuts expire, then he will essentially be going back on his word to not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250K a year.





Again, Obama is the POTUS. HE has the power to extend the Bush tax cuts, or raise them for everyone. And since he has shown that it's HIS way or the highway, get ready for higher taxes.








Quoting brookiecookie87:

I already said I agree with that.

President Obama is using the Middle Class to get the middle class (and 98% of America) tax cut Extensions.

The GOP/Republicans are using the Middle Class to get the top 2% tax cut extensions.

Do you see the difference? Again-They are both using the same tactic. The main difference is President Obama's goal is to get the tax cuts extended for 98% of America while the GOP/Republicans are trying to get it for the top 2%.

If the GOP/Republicans were not doing JUST for the 2% they would agree with President Obama's proposal.

But you are wrong. They are not worried about the 98%. They are worried about the top 2%. President Obama doesn't want to tax 98% of America. His Proposal says that.

However, the GOP/Republicans could care less about the other 98% of America. If  they did care about the other 98% and if they were not fighting for JUST the top 2% they would be willing to agree with his proposal. And since some Republicans have been dismissing the No Tax Pledge it seems like some Republicans understand this and want to change it.

I am glad that we can at least agree that they are playing the same game.




Quoting LadyBugMom09:

What I am saying DOES make sense. Obama IS ussing the middle class to try too get his way. He essentially is telling the GOP, do it MY way or I will let the tax cuts expire for everyone.







The GOP is not fighting JUST for the 2%. Tthey are fighting for the 100%. Tax cuts for ALL. They dont want ANYONES taxes to increase. Thats not diffficult to understand. OBAMA is the one that wants to tax the 2% and if he doesn't get his way then HE will tax the 100%.







And if you read my PPs, you would see that I DID say that both the GOP AND Obama are playing a political game of chicken. I CAN admit that.











Quoting brookiecookie87:

But what you are saying doesn't make any sense. What would President Obama have to gain?

He is using the Middle Class (Or 98% of America) to help them keep their Tax Cuts while letting them expire for the Top 2%.

Oppose to the GOP/Republicans who are using the Middle Class (Or 98% of America) to help keep tax extensions for the Top 2%.

If you are refusing to see that President Obama and the GOP/Republicans are doing the same thing then you are blinded by bias. They both want something and they are both willing to let tax cuts expire for everyone for it.

The main difference is President Obama is fighting for the tax cuts to be extended for 98% of America. The GOP/Republicans are fighting for them to be extended for 2% of America.

And that is a HUGE Difference.



















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