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Destroy the idols,’ Egyptian jihadist calls for removal of Sphinx, Pyramids

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 http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/12/249092.html

Destroy the idols,’ Egyptian jihadist calls for removal of Sphinx, Pyramids

Murgan Salem al-Gohary, an Islamist leader twice-sentenced under former President Hosni Mubarak for advocating violence, called on Muslims to remove such “idols.”  (Courtesy: Dream TV)
Murgan Salem al-Gohary, an Islamist leader twice-sentenced under former President Hosni Mubarak for advocating violence, called on Muslims to remove such “idols.” (Courtesy: Dream TV)

An Egyptian jihad leader, with self-professed links to the Taliban, called for the “destruction of the Sphinx and the Giza Pyramids in Egypt,” drawing ties between the Egyptian relics and Buddha statues, local media reported this week.

Murgan Salem al-Gohary, an Islamist leader twice-sentenced under former President Hosni Mubarak for advocating violence, called on Muslims to remove such “idols.”

“All Muslims are charged with applying the teachings of Islam to remove such idols, as we did in Afghanistan when we destroyed the Buddha statues,” he said on Saturday during a television interview on an Egyptian private channel, widely watched by Egyptian and Arab audiences.

“God ordered Prophet Mohammed to destroy idols,” he added. “When I was with the Taliban we destroyed the statue of Buddha, something the government failed to do.”

His comments came a day after thousands of ultraconservative Islamists gathered in Tahrir Square to call for the strict application of Sharia law in the new constitution.

But in retaliation to Gohary’s remarks, the vice president of Tunisia’s Ennahda party, Sheikh Abdel Fattah Moro, called the live program and told Gohary that famous historic military commander Amr ibn al-Aas did not destroy statues when he conquered Egypt.

“So who are you to do it?” he wondered. “The Prophet destroyed the idols because people worshiped them, but the Sphinx and the Pyramids are not worshiped.”

Gohary, 50, is well-known in Egypt for his advocacy of violence, Egypt Independent reported.

“He was sentenced twice, one of the two sentences being life imprisonment. He subsequently fled Egypt to Afghanistan, where he was badly injured in the American invasion. In 2007, he traveled from Pakistan to Syria, which then handed him over to Egypt. After Mubarak's fall in early 2011, he was released from prison by a judicial ruling,” the newspaper added.

In recent months, fears have surfaced that the ultra-conservative Salafi political powers may soon wish to debate new guidelines over Egyptian antiquities.

Islamists have swept the recent presidential and parliamentary elections in the country’s post-revolutionary stage, with the Muslim Brotherhood and the ultra-conservative Salafi Islamists rising to political power.

“The fundamental Salafis have demanded to cover Pharaonic statues, because they regard them to be idols,” Egyptian author on ancient history Ahmed Osman told Al Arabiya English, explaining that Salafi Muslims follow conservative religious principles which view statues and sculptures as prohibited in Islam.

“But so far the government has done nothing to indicate what is the future of Egyptian antiquities,” adds Osman.

Many hope that Egypt’s new President Mohammed Mursi will help usher better preservation of Egypt’s proud cultural heritage. Egyptian officials have recently announced the country will reveal more of its ancient buried treasures.

The tomb of Queen Meresankh III, the granddaughter of Khufu, of Great Pyramid fame, is set to be opened to tourists later this year, with the last resting places of five high priests also slated to be put on show.

Officials are also believed to be reopening the underground Serapeum temple at Sakkara, to the south of Cairo.

[Related article: The Jinx of the Sphinx: How Egypt’s ‘exploited’ past came full circle: http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/09/11/237360.html]

by on Nov. 13, 2012 at 12:24 PM
Replies (61-69):
romalove
by Roma on Nov. 15, 2012 at 7:45 AM

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

That you think he is correct in his reading of Qu'ran does not make what he says less frightening.

A call to wipe out all idols worshipped or even suspected to be worshipped on the planet?

The planet does not only belong to Muslims.


Quoting muslimah:

 


Quoting romalove:

That is one frightening interview.


Quoting Clairwil:


Here's the actual interview:



a translation of part of it:


Al-Abrashi:
"Am I going to wake up tomorrow to find that, just as you did with the
statue of Buddha, that you have demolished the Sphinx and the pyramids?"



Al-Gohary: "That is dependent upon abilities and possibility. According to our Sharia, every pagan and idol must be destroyed."



Al-Abrashi:
"If you are in power, will you destroy the Sphinx and the pyramids and
all the pharoanic statues and all the pharoanic artifacts?"



Al-Gohary:
"Everything, if it is a pagan statue or idol, that is worshiped or
suspected to be worshipped, or is worshipped by one person on Earth,
must be destroyed. We, or someone else, must destroy it."



Al-Abrashi: "So you would destroy the Sphinx and the pyramids?"



Al-Gohary: "Yes, we will destroy them, if they were worshipped before or afterwards."


 I did not watch the video but from what the words above say that is correct when Islam is followed by the letter.


"Oh you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and stone idols and the games of chance are an abomination of the Devil and you should avoid them that you may succeed. Al-Maeda :90


So shun the abomination of idols and shun the word that is false. Al-Hajj:30


The Prophet Abraham urged his people of Mesopotamia to stop worshipping and destroy all their idols just as Allah came to the Prophet Mohammed and urged him to urge his people to stop worshipping the idols and destroy them.


 

 According to Islam he is correct. That being said myself as a Muslim and someone with ties to not just Egypt but Giza in particular would hate to see them destroyed. But then again I am not a very good Muslim and I don't obey or follow Islam to the letter although I know I should.

 I don't understand.  I thought Sharia was personal to each Muslim.  How can that be but Sharia means no one on earth should have idols to worship, that Muslims should destroy other people's idols, or even items they think might be worshipped as idols?

 Shariah is not personal to each Muslim. It is a law and just like every other law if not followed there are consequences. With Shariah those consequences are handed down by God. So yes one has a choice to follow or not follow the law but they will have to answer to and be held accountable or their choice on the Day of Judgment.

 I'll try again in my quest to understand this issue.

Sharia only pertains to Muslims.  If there are non-Muslims who are worshipping idols, why would Sharia call Muslims to destroy what they consider to be idols of other religions?

 I'm sorry now I am understanding you. You are right Shariah does only pertain to MMuslims. I can't speak for other religions and what their law calls for but MMuslims are commanded to destroy idols. Now can they walk into a non-MMuslim's house and destroy someones personally owned idols? The answer to that is no. There cannot be any idols on Muslim land and Muslims cannot make money off of showing or displaying of idols or anything Pagan. So in this case it depends on who owns the land and who is gaining prophet from it. The law is so strict that technically MMuslims are not even supposed to have photographs or anything with any image of any other living creature. Just the ownership or possession is considered idolatry.

 Thanks for the response.

So, for example, if Egypt should have the strictest or extremist Muslim leadership, they could decide to demolish the pyramids and Sphinx based on that law?

muslimah
by on Nov. 15, 2012 at 8:04 AM

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

That you think he is correct in his reading of Qu'ran does not make what he says less frightening.

A call to wipe out all idols worshipped or even suspected to be worshipped on the planet?

The planet does not only belong to Muslims.


Quoting muslimah:

 


Quoting romalove:

That is one frightening interview.


Quoting Clairwil:


Here's the actual interview:



a translation of part of it:


Al-Abrashi:
"Am I going to wake up tomorrow to find that, just as you did with the
statue of Buddha, that you have demolished the Sphinx and the pyramids?"



Al-Gohary: "That is dependent upon abilities and possibility. According to our Sharia, every pagan and idol must be destroyed."



Al-Abrashi:
"If you are in power, will you destroy the Sphinx and the pyramids and
all the pharoanic statues and all the pharoanic artifacts?"



Al-Gohary:
"Everything, if it is a pagan statue or idol, that is worshiped or
suspected to be worshipped, or is worshipped by one person on Earth,
must be destroyed. We, or someone else, must destroy it."



Al-Abrashi: "So you would destroy the Sphinx and the pyramids?"



Al-Gohary: "Yes, we will destroy them, if they were worshipped before or afterwards."


 I did not watch the video but from what the words above say that is correct when Islam is followed by the letter.


"Oh you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and stone idols and the games of chance are an abomination of the Devil and you should avoid them that you may succeed. Al-Maeda :90


So shun the abomination of idols and shun the word that is false. Al-Hajj:30


The Prophet Abraham urged his people of Mesopotamia to stop worshipping and destroy all their idols just as Allah came to the Prophet Mohammed and urged him to urge his people to stop worshipping the idols and destroy them.


 

 According to Islam he is correct. That being said myself as a Muslim and someone with ties to not just Egypt but Giza in particular would hate to see them destroyed. But then again I am not a very good Muslim and I don't obey or follow Islam to the letter although I know I should.

 I don't understand.  I thought Sharia was personal to each Muslim.  How can that be but Sharia means no one on earth should have idols to worship, that Muslims should destroy other people's idols, or even items they think might be worshipped as idols?

 Shariah is not personal to each Muslim. It is a law and just like every other law if not followed there are consequences. With Shariah those consequences are handed down by God. So yes one has a choice to follow or not follow the law but they will have to answer to and be held accountable or their choice on the Day of Judgment.

 I'll try again in my quest to understand this issue.

Sharia only pertains to Muslims.  If there are non-Muslims who are worshipping idols, why would Sharia call Muslims to destroy what they consider to be idols of other religions?

 I'm sorry now I am understanding you. You are right Shariah does only pertain to MMuslims. I can't speak for other religions and what their law calls for but MMuslims are commanded to destroy idols. Now can they walk into a non-MMuslim's house and destroy someones personally owned idols? The answer to that is no. There cannot be any idols on Muslim land and Muslims cannot make money off of showing or displaying of idols or anything Pagan. So in this case it depends on who owns the land and who is gaining prophet from it. The law is so strict that technically MMuslims are not even supposed to have photographs or anything with any image of any other living creature. Just the ownership or possession is considered idolatry.

 Thanks for the response.

So, for example, if Egypt should have the strictest or extremist Muslim leadership, they could decide to demolish the pyramids and Sphinx based on that law?

 Yes although according to Islam it is not all that extreme but actually a very basic law but I really don't think it will come to that at least I hope not.


Click to join

romalove
by Roma on Nov. 15, 2012 at 8:29 AM

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting muslimah:

 

Quoting romalove:

That you think he is correct in his reading of Qu'ran does not make what he says less frightening.

A call to wipe out all idols worshipped or even suspected to be worshipped on the planet?

The planet does not only belong to Muslims.


Quoting muslimah:

 


Quoting romalove:

That is one frightening interview.


Quoting Clairwil:


Here's the actual interview:



a translation of part of it:


Al-Abrashi:
"Am I going to wake up tomorrow to find that, just as you did with the
statue of Buddha, that you have demolished the Sphinx and the pyramids?"



Al-Gohary: "That is dependent upon abilities and possibility. According to our Sharia, every pagan and idol must be destroyed."



Al-Abrashi:
"If you are in power, will you destroy the Sphinx and the pyramids and
all the pharoanic statues and all the pharoanic artifacts?"



Al-Gohary:
"Everything, if it is a pagan statue or idol, that is worshiped or
suspected to be worshipped, or is worshipped by one person on Earth,
must be destroyed. We, or someone else, must destroy it."



Al-Abrashi: "So you would destroy the Sphinx and the pyramids?"



Al-Gohary: "Yes, we will destroy them, if they were worshipped before or afterwards."


 I did not watch the video but from what the words above say that is correct when Islam is followed by the letter.


"Oh you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and stone idols and the games of chance are an abomination of the Devil and you should avoid them that you may succeed. Al-Maeda :90


So shun the abomination of idols and shun the word that is false. Al-Hajj:30


The Prophet Abraham urged his people of Mesopotamia to stop worshipping and destroy all their idols just as Allah came to the Prophet Mohammed and urged him to urge his people to stop worshipping the idols and destroy them.


 

 According to Islam he is correct. That being said myself as a Muslim and someone with ties to not just Egypt but Giza in particular would hate to see them destroyed. But then again I am not a very good Muslim and I don't obey or follow Islam to the letter although I know I should.

 I don't understand.  I thought Sharia was personal to each Muslim.  How can that be but Sharia means no one on earth should have idols to worship, that Muslims should destroy other people's idols, or even items they think might be worshipped as idols?

 Shariah is not personal to each Muslim. It is a law and just like every other law if not followed there are consequences. With Shariah those consequences are handed down by God. So yes one has a choice to follow or not follow the law but they will have to answer to and be held accountable or their choice on the Day of Judgment.

 I'll try again in my quest to understand this issue.

Sharia only pertains to Muslims.  If there are non-Muslims who are worshipping idols, why would Sharia call Muslims to destroy what they consider to be idols of other religions?

 I'm sorry now I am understanding you. You are right Shariah does only pertain to MMuslims. I can't speak for other religions and what their law calls for but MMuslims are commanded to destroy idols. Now can they walk into a non-MMuslim's house and destroy someones personally owned idols? The answer to that is no. There cannot be any idols on Muslim land and Muslims cannot make money off of showing or displaying of idols or anything Pagan. So in this case it depends on who owns the land and who is gaining prophet from it. The law is so strict that technically MMuslims are not even supposed to have photographs or anything with any image of any other living creature. Just the ownership or possession is considered idolatry.

 Thanks for the response.

So, for example, if Egypt should have the strictest or extremist Muslim leadership, they could decide to demolish the pyramids and Sphinx based on that law?

 Yes although according to Islam it is not all that extreme but actually a very basic law but I really don't think it will come to that at least I hope not.

 According to me destruction of antiquities because of any religious law is very extreme.  :-)

And I hope it doesn't come to that too. 

shannonnigans
by Platinum Member on Nov. 15, 2012 at 9:51 AM
Religion is so great.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
batmansgirl
by Bronze Member on Nov. 15, 2012 at 9:57 AM
Religion is evil
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
etsmom
by Bronze Member on Nov. 15, 2012 at 10:02 AM

Wonders of the World. I don't know how many people still practice Egyptian Mysticism, but probably not enough to have millions of people Idol Worshiping at the Sphinx.  What's next, Angkor Wat, or perhaps Machu Pichu, or even Stone Henge?  Feeling like he might have lost his ice cream cone when he was a kid and he is holding a serious grudge.

stacymomof2
by Ruby Member on Nov. 15, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Not trying to impress you, just stating a fact.  

Studying and preserving ancient history is not the same as worshiping idols, though, so it should have little effect on government policy or laws even in places that are theocracies.  The people who advocate for destrucyion are extremists, people who make a lot of noise and are actually occasioanally destructive to the dismay of reasonable people.  That is a problem everywhere, unfortunately.

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting stacymomof2:

Ah.  Well, yes, in case you weren't aware idol worship is the biggest no no there is, the same as renouncing God for Jews, Christians and Muslims.  

As far as anyone destroying ancient things, of course it shouldn't be done and will not be done, should be illegal and actually IS illegal.  Those ancient treasures are the history of Egypt with some Romans and Greeks thown in with it.  I'm certain that the government is aware of their value to Egypt and the world.  They have schools build around studying Egyptology, the government supports and maintains the ancient things.  

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting stacymomof2:

The man in the interview is an extremist.

And the no idol worship is at the core of the Abrahamic religions, as you are most likely aware.  You could interpret the Bible to say idols should be destroyed and many people have, even recently.  Following something by the letter is not the same as following the teachings, I think you can agree.


 I never gave it any thought; other than watching The Ten Commandments with the golden calf thing, to me the entire idea of items being idols for worship seems very ancient.  I suppose it isn't. 

I don't care what religion wants to destroy historical and important antiquities, I am against it.  I don't care what their reasoning is, these are treasures for the world.  And I don't like extremists of any stripe announcing they want to rid the entire world, which they do not own, of items other people wish to keep.

 


 You'll forgive me if I am not impressed that all of the Abrahamic religions make sure that the worst thing you can do is worship something other than what they think is their actual God.  That makes me feel less secure, not more secure.  Religious extremists of all stripes use their holy books to suit their own purposes, and without regard for the rest of the world.  It is self-serving on the part of religions to make such claims, that the worst thing is to worship someone other than their God.

I hope you are right and reasonable heads will prevail.  I think it would be a tragedy for the relics of our past to be destroyed for any reason, including in the name of religious zealotry.


romalove
by Roma on Nov. 15, 2012 at 10:55 AM

 

Quoting stacymomof2:

Not trying to impress you, just stating a fact.  

Studying and preserving ancient history is not the same as worshiping idols, though, so it should have little effect on government policy or laws even in places that are theocracies.  The people who advocate for destrucyion are extremists, people who make a lot of noise and are actually occasioanally destructive to the dismay of reasonable people.  That is a problem everywhere, unfortunately.

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting stacymomof2:

Ah.  Well, yes, in case you weren't aware idol worship is the biggest no no there is, the same as renouncing God for Jews, Christians and Muslims.  

As far as anyone destroying ancient things, of course it shouldn't be done and will not be done, should be illegal and actually IS illegal.  Those ancient treasures are the history of Egypt with some Romans and Greeks thown in with it.  I'm certain that the government is aware of their value to Egypt and the world.  They have schools build around studying Egyptology, the government supports and maintains the ancient things.  

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting stacymomof2:

The man in the interview is an extremist.

And the no idol worship is at the core of the Abrahamic religions, as you are most likely aware.  You could interpret the Bible to say idols should be destroyed and many people have, even recently.  Following something by the letter is not the same as following the teachings, I think you can agree.


 I never gave it any thought; other than watching The Ten Commandments with the golden calf thing, to me the entire idea of items being idols for worship seems very ancient.  I suppose it isn't. 

I don't care what religion wants to destroy historical and important antiquities, I am against it.  I don't care what their reasoning is, these are treasures for the world.  And I don't like extremists of any stripe announcing they want to rid the entire world, which they do not own, of items other people wish to keep.

 


 You'll forgive me if I am not impressed that all of the Abrahamic religions make sure that the worst thing you can do is worship something other than what they think is their actual God.  That makes me feel less secure, not more secure.  Religious extremists of all stripes use their holy books to suit their own purposes, and without regard for the rest of the world.  It is self-serving on the part of religions to make such claims, that the worst thing is to worship someone other than their God.

I hope you are right and reasonable heads will prevail.  I think it would be a tragedy for the relics of our past to be destroyed for any reason, including in the name of religious zealotry.


 It's not a matter of "you" not impressing me.  I'm not impressed with this particular area of religion and how they view things.  I think it's harmful overall to people.

You know my opinion of extremists and religious zealots. 

Clairwil
by Ruby Member on Nov. 15, 2012 at 12:55 PM
Quoting muslimah:
Quoting romalove:
Quoting muslimah:
Quoting romalove:
Quoting muslimah:
Quoting romalove:
Quoting muslimah:
Quoting romalove:

That you think he is correct in his reading of Qu'ran does not make what he says less frightening.

A call to wipe out all idols worshipped or even suspected to be worshipped on the planet?

The planet does not only belong to Muslims.


 According to Islam he is correct. That being said myself as a Muslim and someone with ties to not just Egypt but Giza in particular would hate to see them destroyed. But then again I am not a very good Muslim and I don't obey or follow Islam to the letter although I know I should.

 I don't understand.  I thought Sharia was personal to each Muslim.  How can that be but Sharia means no one on earth should have idols to worship, that Muslims should destroy other people's idols, or even items they think might be worshipped as idols?

 Shariah is not personal to each Muslim. It is a law and just like every other law if not followed there are consequences. With Shariah those consequences are handed down by God. So yes one has a choice to follow or not follow the law but they will have to answer to and be held accountable or their choice on the Day of Judgment.

 I'll try again in my quest to understand this issue.

Sharia only pertains to Muslims.  If there are non-Muslims who are worshipping idols, why would Sharia call Muslims to destroy what they consider to be idols of other religions?

 I'm sorry now I am understanding you. You are right Shariah does only pertain to MMuslims. I can't speak for other religions and what their law calls for but MMuslims are commanded to destroy idols. Now can they walk into a non-MMuslim's house and destroy someones personally owned idols? The answer to that is no. There cannot be any idols on Muslim land and Muslims cannot make money off of showing or displaying of idols or anything Pagan. So in this case it depends on who owns the land and who is gaining prophet from it. The law is so strict that technically MMuslims are not even supposed to have photographs or anything with any image of any other living creature. Just the ownership or possession is considered idolatry.

 Thanks for the response.

So, for example, if Egypt should have the strictest or extremist Muslim leadership, they could decide to demolish the pyramids and Sphinx based on that law?

 Yes although according to Islam it is not all that extreme but actually a very basic law but I really don't think it will come to that at least I hope not.

Thank you for your honesty and clear communication.

I'm so used to religious people trying to duck questions, when the answers to those questions are not particularly complimentary to their own religion, that seeing a straight answer is a refreshing change.

Well done!

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