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Battle Over Coastal Christmas Display Goes to LA Court

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 http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20121118/US.Nativity.Scene.Atheists/?cid=hero_media

  

LOS ANGELES - Damon Vix didn't have to go to court to push Christmas out of the city of Santa Monica. He just joined the festivities.

The atheist's anti-God message alongside a life-sized nativity display in a park overlooking the beach ignited a debate that burned brighter than any Christmas candle.

Santa Monica officials snuffed the city's holiday tradition this year rather than referee the religious rumble, prompting churches that have set up a 14-scene Christian diorama for decades to sue over freedom of speech violations. Their attorney will ask a federal judge Monday to resurrect the depiction of Jesus' birth, while the city aims to eject the case.

"It's a sad, sad commentary on the attitudes of the day that a nearly 60-year-old Christmas tradition is now having to hunt for a home, something like our savior had to hunt for a place to be born because the world was not interested," said Hunter Jameson, head of the nonprofit Santa Monica Nativity Scene Committee that is suing.

Missing from the courtroom drama will be Vix and his fellow atheists, who are not parties to the case. Their role outside court highlights a tactical shift as atheists evolve into a vocal minority eager to get their non-beliefs into the public square as never before.

National atheist groups earlier this year took out full-page newspaper ads and hundreds of TV spots in response to the Catholic bishops' activism around women's health care issues and are gearing up to battle for their own space alongside public Christmas displays in small towns across America this season.

"In recent years, the tactic of many in the atheist community has been, if you can't beat them, join them," said Charles Haynes, a senior scholar at the First Amendment Center and director of the Newseum's Religious Freedom Education Project in Washington. "If these church groups insist that these public spaces are going to be dominated by a Christian message, we'll just get in the game - and that changes everything."

In the past, atheists primarily fought to uphold the separation of church and state through the courts. The change underscores the conviction held by many nonbelievers that their views are gaining a foothold, especially among young adults.

The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life released a study last month that found 20 percent of Americans say they have no religious affiliation, an increase from 15 percent in the last five years. Atheists took heart from the report, although Pew researchers stressed that the category also encompassed majorities of people who said they believed in God but had no ties with organized religion and people who consider themselves "spiritual" but not "religious."

"We're at the bottom of the totem pole socially, but we have muscle and we're flexing it," said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation. "Ignore our numbers at your peril."

The trouble in Santa Monica began three years ago, when Vix applied for and was granted a booth in Palisades Park alongside the story of Jesus Christ's birth, from Mary's visit from the Angel Gabriel to the traditional crèche.

Vix hung a simple sign that quoted Thomas Jefferson: "Religions are all alike -- founded on fables and mythologies." The other side read "Happy Solstice." He repeated the display the following year but then upped the stakes significantly.

In 2011, Vix recruited 10 others to inundate the city with applications for tongue-in-cheek displays such as a homage to the "Pastafarian religion," which would include an artistic representation of the great Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The secular coalition won 18 of 21 spaces. The two others went to the traditional Christmas displays and one to a Hanukkah display.

The atheists used half their spaces, displaying signs such as one that showed pictures of Poseidon, Jesus, Santa Claus and the devil and said: "37 million Americans know myths when they see them. What myths do you see?"

Most of the signs were vandalized and in the ensuing uproar, the city effectively ended a tradition that began in 1953 and earned Santa Monica one of its nicknames, the City of the Christmas Story.

The Santa Monica Nativity Scenes Committee argues in its lawsuit that atheists have the right to protest, but that freedom doesn't trump the Christians' right to free speech.

"If they want to hold an opposing viewpoint about the celebration of Christmas, they're free to do that - but they can't interfere with our right to engage in religious speech in a traditional public forum," said William Becker, attorney for the committee. "Our goal is to preserve the tradition in Santa Monica and to keep Christmas alive."

The city doesn't prohibit churches from caroling in the park, handing out literature or even staging a play about the birth of Jesus and churches can always set up a nativity on private land, Deputy City Attorney Jeanette Schachtner said in an email.

The decision to ban the displays also saves the city, which had administered the cumbersome lottery process used to award booths, both time and money while preserving the park's aesthetics, she said.

For his part, Vix is surprised - and slightly amused - at the legal battle spawned by his solitary act but doesn't plan anything further.

"That was such a unique and blatant example of the violation of the First Amendment that I felt I had to act," said the 44-year-old set builder. "If I had another goal, it would be to remove the `under God' phrase from the Pledge of Allegiance - but that's a little too big for me to take on for right now."

The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees freedom of speech and religion, but also states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That has been interpreted by courts as providing for separation of church and state, barring government bodies from promoting, endorsing or funding religion or religious institutions.

by on Nov. 19, 2012 at 7:29 AM
Replies (391-400):
prommy
by Silver Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 10:56 AM


Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting prommy:

 

Quoting romalove:

 

Quoting prommy:

 

Quoting GoodPenny:

It's not just you. She has been that way with me as well in this post. She claims to be in a inter faith marriage, and is tolerant of the Christian faith because she has a genuine gold plated ornament of the nativity that she allows her husband to put on the tree every year lol!!
Quoting prommy:

 

Quoting romalove:

You are not the arbiter of acceptable messages.

Quoting prommy:

 


Quoting romalove:


 


Quoting prommy:




Quoting LucyMom08:

Are you a person of faith?


Quoting prommy:


 



Quoting LucyMom08:

Why is that an attack? Do you know what a myth is?



Quoting prommy:



 




Quoting LucyMom08:

A Thomas Jefferson quote and the words 'Happy Solstice' are a direct attack?




Quoting prommy:




 





Quoting LucyMom08:

That's the point here...the atheist banner tried to do just that, and was vandalized, so now the city doesn't want to deal with the mess...so no one can have a display...pretty fair, no?





Quoting circle_of_life:





 I don't mind seeing religious decor around christmas. As long as everyone of any faith or non faith can display what they want as well, then who cares?





 The atheist banner was a direct attack on others' beliefs. The Christian nativity sign was not.




Putting up a group of pictures, one of which was a depiction of Jesus and asking which of the pictures were myths was an attack.



Please don't talk down to me, of course I know what a myth is. If you for one second believe that the atheists involved in this drama were not trying to be purposely insulting to peopleof Christian faith then I don't know what to say to you. If a church group puts up a nativity scene or a menorah or anything else that represents their religion it isn't put there as a challenge to the atheists or to anyone else. It is put there as a celebration. The atheists put their banners up to question and insult other belief systems. The motivation is entirely different and as far as I am concerned it comes from a well of hatred towards people who do believe.


I am. I am also a person of acceptance. I do not believe that only my faith should be represented, I am Roman Catholic. I believe that everyone should be given equal space to represent their beliefs. I do not believe that sharing that space means you have a right to display hateful banners etc. If you don't believe in the birth of Jesus Christ as a gift from God that's your business. If you want to have a display celebrating Winter Solstice or whatever else could be celebrated at this time of year (or any other) then you should be able to. I just don't think it's appropriate to have a display that attacks someone else. Instead have a display that celebrates what you believe in. No one needs to be hurt by anyone else's beliefs. If you don't share them, look away.


 But the atheist group in question believes that religion, ALL religion, is rooted in mythology and fable.  That is not an attack, that's their position.  If you don't like that, and you (the generic you) insist on putting such religious displays on public governmental land (and one more time, I think none of it belongs there), then you are the one who has to look away at the banner you dislike.


If I saw an atheist banner I would look away. I'd probably shake my head and think idiot too, but I wouldn't make a federal case of it. Anyway, the point was that it seems like all of the other celebratory displays are FOR something and atheist displays are against something and sadly they don't always (actualy rarely) have a positive message to share. It is usually a message that is anti-belief oriented. Want to share your non-belief? Fine but don't crap on my belief while you do it. Want to put up banner saying that you'll enjoy the time of year because  you get an extra day off from work or because there is usually snow (at least in Vt.) or because you just enjoy being alive? Fine. Celebrate don't berate.

Are you this snotty to everyone or is it just me you don't like? This is a forum to share ideas, you have taken several opportunities to dump on my comments. Take a pill Roma, I get to have an opinion just like you do.



laughing

 Another shining example of a good Christian. 

You're not the arbiter of what makes a good Christian.

 Of course I am not.

Christ let people know how he wanted his followers to behave.  I am using his ideals in making my determination.

I wouldn't presume to speak for Christ, but I feel pretty sure he doesn't mind if we have a sense of humor. I can be a good Chrsitian AND laugh if I see something I think is funny! Lighten up Roma, life is too short!

lga1965
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 10:59 AM

 Yes. :-)

Quoting Billiejeens:

 

Quoting lga1965:

 

Quoting Billiejeens:

If one says "happy holidays" prior to Thanksgiving then I give them the benefit of the doubt and figure they mean Thanksgiving and Christmas, after Thanksgiving, only Merry Christmas is appropriate.

 After Thanksgiving you can still say "Happy Holidays". Then you are not leaving out people of other religions such as Jews who celebrate Hanukkah, right?

'.


If you are Jewish or have a reasonable expectation that the receiver of the greeting is Jewish, then I suppose.

 

Lacey14
by Bronze Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 12:23 PM


Why do you insist on saying I haven't read the Bible, even after I said I have and do?  You are trying hard to discredit me, but I don't think anyone in this group cares one way or another about that, so you are wasting your time.

Who do you think you are, that you can tell me what to do?  Follow God's word about what?  What is your point even, other than to criticize and spread your hatred for Christianity?  Cop out?  I think not, but I guess you are free to believe what you want.

There are only 10 rules that I need to obey and I do the best I can.  Those are called commandments.  Any other rules, were set forth for that particular time period and that particular place.  Christ was sacrificed to wash away our sins.  We follow his teachings now.

Babylonians?  Seriously?  What about what the Babylonians did, affects me today?  Sorry, but you aren't making much sense.  Do you get all your information at Wiccan meetings, or whatever they call their gatherings?  Because it sounds to me like you are repeating some kind of religious talking points.

Quoting AMBG825:

That is a cop out. You still have to follow God's word.

And. Psst. It directly refutes your history of the tree symbol. Had you read the bible you would have known the Babylonians used decorated trees as well.


Quoting Lacey14:

I don't believe there are too many Christians today, that actually believe Jesus was born on December 25, so nice try.  Since we do not have an exact day, we will continue with our celebration as always.

Jeremiah 10:3 is in the old testament.  Many things in the old testament, were changed with the birth of Christ.  Today, we don't worship the tree as an idol as the pagans did, but have adopted it as a pretty symbol of the of the holiday.  After all, wood from the tree was used as a bed for the Christ child.  The star on top of the tree is a symbol of the star in the north that guided the magi.  God knows what is in our hearts.  I don't for one minute believe, he is angered over a tree in my house.


Quoting AMBG825:

Apparently you missed when Jesus was born as well as the part where it specifically says do not adopt (or absorb) what the heathens do
Quoting Lacey14:

You are the one that said I should read my Bible.  Well, I do, and there is no mention of Yule, so what did you mean by that comment? What is in the Bible that you think I missed?  

You want to be a neopaganist, that is your business.  I'm a Christian and that is my business.  As far as Christians trying to commit genocide all those years ago, that took place in nearly every country, and by whatever religion that dictator or so called leader believed in.  Not just Christianity.

I don't believe these so called atheist are actually just anti-Christian.  I see them as acting more like satanist.  They are targeting and trying to destroy anything relating to Christ.  That is far more than just atheism.

Quoting AMBG825:

Yule is not in the bible because IT IS NOT CHRISTIAN. it was "absorbed" as you delicately put it as a form of genocide. Christians weren't content with actual murder. They wanted the pagans eradicated completely. One of the ways they did that was to take their holy day s and Christianitze them. That is why ALL of your holy symbols are pagan.



What passage says Jesus was born in December?




Quoting Lacey14:

I don't actually recall Yule mentioned in the Bible. Can you give me the passage please?  Yule was a German name for the pagan holiday celebrating the winter solstice in December.  It became absorbed into Christmas when Christianity came to Northern Europe.  I don't think Yule pre-existed before Christmas, but rather, that was when Christianity finally reached Germany. The Bible is mostly, written in and about the middle east.

If pagans want to celebrate yule, and I believe Wiccans do, then why don't they use their own message and leave the Christian ones alone?  Actually, the Christmas tree itself is a symbol of Yule.  These are two separate holidays that blended (coexisted?) in northern Europe.

Quoting AMBG825:

Please read your bible. Christmas. Also known as Yule would still be celebrated our Christianity had never taken off.





Quoting Lacey14:

But, that is my point.  These Atheist are not trying to coexist, they are trying to destroy.  Coexisting would mean leaving the Christmas displays in peace, and putting up their own message elsewhere, or another time.   Just because they don't believe in Christ as the Lord, doesn't mean they have to use the Christian holiday or displays to cause hate.  That isn't coexisting.  Maybe they should celebrate Atheist Day in a different month, if they truly want to coexist.

As someone posted earlier, there wouldn't even be a Christmas in the first place, without the birth of Christ being celebrated.  Even if you celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday, it all began because of Christ.  

Quoting romalove:

The displays were put up by different groups as their individual expressions.



The atheist group's message and belief is that all religions are rooted in mythology.



They don't agree with the message that Christ is Lord, and the Christians don't agree with the atheists message.



They either have to coexist on the public lawn or leave the lawn empty of message and display.








Quoting Lacey14:

Your response would be understandable, if the atheist banners were used to promote or celebrate something in it's own realm.  But the ONLY reason they are putting them next to Christian displays is to antagonize Christians.  The atheists would not display anything otherwise.  This is just harassment.  They are acting like children misbehaving, by putting a finger next to another child, but not quite touching them.

Quoting LucyMom08:

 That's my point...don't like the banners, don't look at them...but many aren't content with that...they'd rather vandalize the banners (and trample on free speech) than contend with anything that they see as 'persecution'...it's ridiculous, and it makes it tough for everybody, because legally those banners have just as much right as the nativities to be there...





Quoting D.O.E.:





there is no reason for anyone to be argueing about anything! religion is simply not that important!!! don't like it, dont look at it!





Quoting LucyMom08:





 The same could be said for the atheist banners...why is it ok for the church, but not ok for others? That's the issue here...





Quoting D.O.E.:





no offense intended, but what is with all these protests about issues which really, are not important? so there's a nativity scene. big whoop. who the hell cares? don't like it? look away!





why not focus on more important issues if panties need to be in a twist?





 










 







AMBG825
by on Nov. 21, 2012 at 12:39 PM
I didn't do anything to discredit you. You not knowing the bible did that all on it's own. You thought Jesus was born in December and trees came from the Germans. I merely pointed out what your holy book says. If you don't like what the bible says then read it yourself.


God didn't cease to exist because of Jesus.So saying you don't have to do what God says because Jesus said so is a silly argument. Obviously you don't abide by the 10 commandments. Maybe 8 of them but you've broke 2 just in this discussion alone. You can't even claim you abide byJesus' commandment since getting the warm and fuzzies over acts of genocide and being intolerant and insulting doesn't fall into the "love thy neighbor" category.
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TCgirlatheart
by TC on Nov. 21, 2012 at 2:25 PM
1 mom liked this
Good grief! How do you stay so patient? lol

Quoting romalove:

I didn't tell you not to respond.



I commented on your response.



Your idea is that messages should be pleasing to you.



The group in question put one up that was pleasing to them.



If it was up to me, none of it would be on governmental public lawns, and everyone could make any displays they want everywhere else.




Quoting prommy:




Quoting romalove:

You are not the arbiter of acceptable messages.



Quoting prommy:



 




Quoting romalove:




 




Quoting prommy:








Quoting LucyMom08:

Are you a person of faith?




Quoting prommy:




 





Quoting LucyMom08:

Why is that an attack? Do you know what a myth is?





Quoting prommy:





 






Quoting LucyMom08:

A Thomas Jefferson quote and the words 'Happy Solstice' are a direct attack?






Quoting prommy:






 







Quoting LucyMom08:

That's the point here...the atheist banner tried to do just that, and was vandalized, so now the city doesn't want to deal with the mess...so no one can have a display...pretty fair, no?







Quoting circle_of_life:







 I don't mind seeing religious decor around christmas. As long as everyone of any faith or non faith can display what they want as well, then who cares?







 The atheist banner was a direct attack on others' beliefs. The Christian nativity sign was not.






Putting up a group of pictures, one of which was a depiction of Jesus and asking which of the pictures were myths was an attack.





Please don't talk down to me, of course I know what a myth is. If you for one second believe that the atheists involved in this drama were not trying to be purposely insulting to peopleof Christian faith then I don't know what to say to you. If a church group puts up a nativity scene or a menorah or anything else that represents their religion it isn't put there as a challenge to the atheists or to anyone else. It is put there as a celebration. The atheists put their banners up to question and insult other belief systems. The motivation is entirely different and as far as I am concerned it comes from a well of hatred towards people who do believe.




I am. I am also a person of acceptance. I do not believe that only my faith should be represented, I am Roman Catholic. I believe that everyone should be given equal space to represent their beliefs. I do not believe that sharing that space means you have a right to display hateful banners etc. If you don't believe in the birth of Jesus Christ as a gift from God that's your business. If you want to have a display celebrating Winter Solstice or whatever else could be celebrated at this time of year (or any other) then you should be able to. I just don't think it's appropriate to have a display that attacks someone else. Instead have a display that celebrates what you believe in. No one needs to be hurt by anyone else's beliefs. If you don't share them, look away.




 But the atheist group in question believes that religion, ALL religion, is rooted in mythology and fable.  That is not an attack, that's their position.  If you don't like that, and you (the generic you) insist on putting such religious displays on public governmental land (and one more time, I think none of it belongs there), then you are the one who has to look away at the banner you dislike.




If I saw an atheist banner I would look away. I'd probably shake my head and think idiot too, but I wouldn't make a federal case of it. Anyway, the point was that it seems like all of the other celebratory displays are FOR something and atheist displays are against something and sadly they don't always (actualy rarely) have a positive message to share. It is usually a message that is anti-belief oriented. Want to share your non-belief? Fine but don't crap on my belief while you do it. Want to put up banner saying that you'll enjoy the time of year because  you get an extra day off from work or because there is usually snow (at least in Vt.) or because you just enjoy being alive? Fine. Celebrate don't berate.



Are you this snotty to everyone or is it just me you don't like? This is a forum to share ideas, you have taken several opportunities to dump on my comments. Take a pill Roma, I get to have an opinion just like you do.

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TCgirlatheart
by TC on Nov. 21, 2012 at 4:30 PM
Why would the courts need to worry about the intent of display on the case of this article?

Quoting GoodPenny:

The courts that this little battle takes place in, I trust, is equipped with those who understand that when you rule on something like this you have to take intent into consideration. What was the intent of those who erected the nativity? Well, first off it was appropriate for the time of the year, it was wanted by the majority being that over the last 60 years it had been a tradition for the city, and it brought joy to many. Now, what were the intentions of the atheist group? Well let's see....to insult, to blaspheme, to attempt to rob others of a joyful, harmless tradition. The courts I hope are able to see through this and do the right thing. As long as they make no law enforcing one religion, they have done nothing wrong.
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TCgirlatheart
by TC on Nov. 21, 2012 at 4:39 PM
Why does another person's differing belief dispel yours(general)?

Quoting Lacey14:

How are these atheist who are trying to dispel Christianity, showing acceptance and tolerance?  Since they are not celebrating the birth of Christ, why are they putting up banners at this time?

Quoting witchybabymomma:

I am really kind of on the fence on this issue. There is supposed to be a seperation of church and state, but at the same time I don't believe most holiday displays cause any harm to anyone, but at the same time if a city wants to allow those displays on public property then they need to allow them for ALL religious groups, not just the ones they like or "accept". We ALL have the same rights whether we follow the same religion or not. I don't have a problem with any of the christmas diplays in my town, but I would love to see displays for other religions right along side of them, I think people would be a lot better off teaching their children acceptance and tolerance of others as opposed to they believe different then we do so our rights are more important.


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Lacey14
by Bronze Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 5:12 PM

You are just trying to be hostile and snarky.  I never said Jesus was born in December, I said that is when we celebrate it.  Trees do come from Germany, as well as most other countries around the world.  But, what I actually said, is the term Yule is a German word.  You are intentionally acting like you are not comprehending.  I know you aren't really that dumb.

Quoting AMBG825:

I didn't do anything to discredit you. You not knowing the bible did that all on it's own. You thought Jesus was born in December and trees came from the Germans. I merely pointed out what your holy book says. If you don't like what the bible says then read it yourself.   That sentence doesn't even make sense.


God didn't cease to exist because of Jesus.So saying you don't have to do what God says because Jesus said so is a silly argument.  God and Jesus are a part of the Holy Trinity.  You are trying to tell others all about the Christian faith, but you don't really know much, so you twist it all up.  This is typical of non-believers.  Obviously you don't abide by the 10 commandments. Maybe 8 of them but you've broke 2 just in this discussion alone. You can't even claim you abide byJesus' commandment since getting the warm and fuzzies over acts of genocide and being intolerant and insulting doesn't fall into the "love thy neighbor" category.  Sure, I sin all the time, because I'm human and therefor not perfect.  Thankfully, Jesus is my savior.  As fo
r you my friend, you are duplicitous, erroneous, and just plain mean spirited.  You aren't interested in learning about Christianity.  Your intent is to destroy.  Therefore, there is no further need  for me to continue our conversation.  I thought we were trying to understand each other, but apparently that isn't the case.  God bless you, and Merry Christmas to you and yours.

 

 


shannonnigans
by Platinum Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 5:17 PM
1 mom liked this
I sure hope you find peace soon, Roma. ;)


Quoting romalove:

 


Quoting GoodPenny:

What I do or do not call myself is none of your business. Besides, you have already said as much in this post that you have experienced very few positive Christians, so I can only assume that perhaps the problem is not with them, but rather the problem is you my dear. But you already know this don't you? You have no peace within, therefore you have no peace without, and it shows.

Quoting romalove:


 


Quoting GoodPenny:

It's not just you. She has been that way with me as well in this post. She claims to be in a inter faith marriage, and is tolerant of the Christian faith because she has a genuine gold plated ornament of the nativity that she allows her husband to put on the tree every year lol!!

Quoting prommy:


 


Quoting romalove:

You are not the arbiter of acceptable messages.


Quoting prommy:


 



Quoting romalove:



 



Quoting prommy:






Quoting LucyMom08:

Are you a person of faith?



Quoting prommy:



 




Quoting LucyMom08:

Why is that an attack? Do you know what a myth is?




Quoting prommy:




 





Quoting LucyMom08:

A Thomas Jefferson quote and the words 'Happy Solstice' are a direct attack?





Quoting prommy:





 






Quoting LucyMom08:

That's the point here...the atheist banner tried to do just that, and was vandalized, so now the city doesn't want to deal with the mess...so no one can have a display...pretty fair, no?






Quoting circle_of_life:






 I don't mind seeing religious decor around christmas. As long as everyone of any faith or non faith can display what they want as well, then who cares?






 The atheist banner was a direct attack on others' beliefs. The Christian nativity sign was not.





Putting up a group of pictures, one of which was a depiction of Jesus and asking which of the pictures were myths was an attack.




Please don't talk down to me, of course I know what a myth is. If you for one second believe that the atheists involved in this drama were not trying to be purposely insulting to peopleof Christian faith then I don't know what to say to you. If a church group puts up a nativity scene or a menorah or anything else that represents their religion it isn't put there as a challenge to the atheists or to anyone else. It is put there as a celebration. The atheists put their banners up to question and insult other belief systems. The motivation is entirely different and as far as I am concerned it comes from a well of hatred towards people who do believe.



I am. I am also a person of acceptance. I do not believe that only my faith should be represented, I am Roman Catholic. I believe that everyone should be given equal space to represent their beliefs. I do not believe that sharing that space means you have a right to display hateful banners etc. If you don't believe in the birth of Jesus Christ as a gift from God that's your business. If you want to have a display celebrating Winter Solstice or whatever else could be celebrated at this time of year (or any other) then you should be able to. I just don't think it's appropriate to have a display that attacks someone else. Instead have a display that celebrates what you believe in. No one needs to be hurt by anyone else's beliefs. If you don't share them, look away.



 But the atheist group in question believes that religion, ALL religion, is rooted in mythology and fable.  That is not an attack, that's their position.  If you don't like that, and you (the generic you) insist on putting such religious displays on public governmental land (and one more time, I think none of it belongs there), then you are the one who has to look away at the banner you dislike.



If I saw an atheist banner I would look away. I'd probably shake my head and think idiot too, but I wouldn't make a federal case of it. Anyway, the point was that it seems like all of the other celebratory displays are FOR something and atheist displays are against something and sadly they don't always (actualy rarely) have a positive message to share. It is usually a message that is anti-belief oriented. Want to share your non-belief? Fine but don't crap on my belief while you do it. Want to put up banner saying that you'll enjoy the time of year because  you get an extra day off from work or because there is usually snow (at least in Vt.) or because you just enjoy being alive? Fine. Celebrate don't berate.


Are you this snotty to everyone or is it just me you don't like? This is a forum to share ideas, you have taken several opportunities to dump on my comments. Take a pill Roma, I get to have an opinion just like you do.



 I sincerely hope, for the sake of the good Christians I know in person and on this website, that you do not call yourself a Christian.


 



 Oh, I see.


You are a straight up liar.


That's fine, they allow all kinds around here.


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shannonnigans
by Platinum Member on Nov. 21, 2012 at 5:20 PM
Otherwise, you're insulted? Oh too damn bad.

Happy Holidays :)


Quoting Billiejeens:



Quoting lga1965:


 


Quoting Billiejeens:

If one says "happy holidays" prior to Thanksgiving then I give them the benefit of the doubt and figure they mean Thanksgiving and Christmas, after Thanksgiving, only Merry Christmas is appropriate.


 After Thanksgiving you can still say "Happy Holidays". Then you are not leaving out people of other religions such as Jews who celebrate Hanukkah, right?


'.



If you are Jewish or have a reasonable expectation that the receiver of the greeting is Jewish, then I suppose.


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