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Pagan mom not allowed to hand out lit at school...

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after her son brought home a Bible that was given to him at school.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2088912/Pagan-mothers-fury-son-brings-home-Bible-school-witchcraft-books-banned.html

A school is being accused of not letting students practice religious freedom after they refused to let a pagan student's mother give out spell books, despite allowing bibles to be distributed.

Ginger Strivelli, from North Carolina, who practices Witchcraft, a form of Paganism, said she was upset when her 12-year-old son came home from North Windy Ridge intermediate school with a Bible.

She challenged the school about distributing the books, which were donated by the local Gideon group, and has prompted the Buncombe County Board of Education to reevaluate its policies regarding religious texts.

The Gideons International had delivered several boxes of the sacred books to the school office. The staff allowed interested students to stop by and pick them up.

But when Mrs Strivelli showed up at the school with Pagan spell books, she was turned away, despite being assured by the principal the school would make available religious texts donated by any group. 

School: North Windy Ridge intermediate school where children were given Gideon bibles

School: North Windy Ridge intermediate school where children were given Gideon bibles

The district announced in  statement: 'Buncombe County School officials are currently reviewing relevant policies and practices with school board attorneys. 

 

'During this review period, no school in the system will be accepting donations of materials that could be viewed as advocating a particular religion or belief.'

Debate: The handing out of bibles in the school has dragged it into controversy about religious freedom

Debate: The handing out of bibles in the school has dragged it into controversy about religious freedom

The First Amendment gives public schools two clear choices when it comes to the distribution of religious texts.

Michael Broyde, a professor and senior fellow at Emory University's Center for the Study of Law and Religion told Fox News: 'You can either open your public school up to all religious material, or you can say no religious material.

'You can't say, "You can distribute religious material, but only from the good mainstream faiths".

'America runs a grand, noble experiment in religious diversity without violence. There's no killing of the Jews. There's no Catholic-Protestant violence. We are very successful in this grand experiment.'

Ms Strivelli agrees with this stance that it should be all or nothing and said she found many others who agreeds: 'Many Christians have stood up and said they agree with me too. Because, as much as they may like the Bible, they don't want Jehovah's Witnesses coming in with Watch Tower (magazines) or Catholics coming in and having them pray the Rosary.'



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2088912/Pagan-mothers-fury-son-brings-home-Bible-school-witchcraft-books-banned.html#ixzz2D0OQfqvy 
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by on Nov. 22, 2012 at 8:33 PM
Replies (141-150):
nickysmom71
by Bronze Member on Nov. 24, 2012 at 1:38 PM

Religion should have no place in the school system, in any way, shape or form. Period.  It is a place to learn, not preach.

kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Nov. 24, 2012 at 1:44 PM
1 mom liked this

I realize that.  And who put together the dictionary?  Just because it is in the dictionary does not make it correct.  Personal bias should have no place in the dictionary, but unfortunately it is still there.

So what is your PERSONAL understanding of paganism?  Not something you copied and pasted off the internet somewhere, but your own personal knowledge.  If you have none, then you have no leg to stand on.  I'd venture to guess that the majority of pagans on here know more about Christianity than any Christian on here knows about paganism.

Quoting jakesmom323:

This is the dictionary........not my words.


Quoting kailu1835:

This entire discussion is completely hillarious to me, especially considering that every single practice your religion has was stolen at some point from paganism.  Yet your definition calls those who follow these practices heathens?  So by that definition, you are a heathen, are you not?  Quit acting like you know diddly squat about Pagans, and spreading false information.  Little or no religion my ass.  Most pagans I know are people I would far rather be around than other christians, and have much more peaceful, God-like spirits.

Quoting jakesmom323:

pa·gan  

/ˈpāgən/

Noun

A person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.

Adjective

Of or relating to such people or beliefs: "a pagan god".

Synonyms

noun.   infidel - gentile - idolater

adjective.   heathenish - gentile - paganish - profane - infidel



Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic"[1]) is a blanket term typically used to refer to religious traditions which are polytheistic or indigenous.



Main Entry: pa·gan

Pronunciation: \ˈpā-gən\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix — more at pact

Date: 14th century

1 : heathen 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)

2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person

3 : neo-pagan

— pagan adjective

— pa·gan·ish \-gə-nish\ adjective



These are from 3 different world dictionaries. Not one answered my question nicely about explaining pagan religion, like I originally asked.









Quoting blues_pagan:

I want to know the same thing, how can saying, " this is not the dark ages people. If you really think being a witch is a religion, please explain to me nicely how this is a positive thing for children to be educated on.  " not be considered bashing my religion and the religion of millions of others?  How is that open minded when you say something like that?

What do you actually know about Paganism?

Quoting jakesmom323:

Well, you can teach your kids spells and I'll just be me, and NOT......it's a win win situation.








Quoting Arroree:

Actually you very clearly knocked the Pagan religion, there was nothing "open minded" about what you were saying.




Quoting jakesmom323:

I'm not knocking your religion. I'm very open minded about anything positive and don't press my beliefs on anyone either. My statement was that no religious literature should be given in a public tax paying school. Except for private education. I would say this if this was about being a Muslim, being Jewish, Athiest, Buddist, etc. The spell book being passed out in the school is a little much in my opinion. Being religious is a mature decision that should be respected.











Quoting punky3175:

And what reason would that be? Please - share your obvious VAST knowledge of all the different, non-organized paths of Paganism.









PS. I just gave you a HUGE hint about why there aren't any independent Pagan schools.










Quoting jakesmom323:

Uhhhh, this is not the dark ages people. If you really think being a witch is a religion, please explain to me nicely how this is a positive thing for children to be educated on. Teaching children spells in school is mind boggling to me and to add it's the tax payers public school system. I personally don't believe that any religious content should be given out in the public school system. If you send your school to a Christian based private school like I do, I'm paying for that service. There aren't Pagan independent schools for children for a reason.














babiesbabybaby development

lancet98
by Silver Member on Nov. 24, 2012 at 5:47 PM

"being a witch is not a religion"

That is right.   It is but one part of a group of religions.   The religion consists of more than just the 'witchcraft'.

And the word 'witch' with all its negative Christian meanings, all of its Inquisition-Salem-Witch-Trial meanings, probably isn't the word that 'witches' originally used to refer to themselves - or at least - if they did use that word, it probably meant something very, very different to them.

It is supposed to come from the Old English word 'wicce', a female magician.   It is the feminine form of 'wicca' - a male magician.   The related word, 'wiccer', may have meant 'soothsayer' (someone who can tell the future).   Though none of the tracings of these words is without problems, which several authorities on word origin freely admit.   It may have come from a pre-Germanic more specific word for one who wakes the dead, from 'weg', to be powerful.   Even in the Anglo-Saxon tribes and Germanic tribes the words (and related words) were not always positive in meaning, dating at least from 890 AD.  

It wasn't until the late 1960's that the word 'wiccan' became associated with a modern group of practitioner - sometimes called 'neo-pagan' or 'neo-pagan witchcraft'.

(notes from etymonline.com)

SunshneDaydream
by Silver Member on Nov. 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM
1 mom liked this

 Why only the predominant ones?  Are the smaller ones not worthy of being taught?

Quoting yourspecialkid:

I will once again say I think religion classes should be taught in school.  They should feature the worlds most predominant faiths and should be presented in a social studies type format.  Religion is a big reason why people don't get along...and I think if people understood other religions more it wouldn't be such an issue.

 

 

GaleJ
by on Nov. 24, 2012 at 6:52 PM


Quoting punky3175:

We discussed this when it first happened. Were they really 'spell' books or was it just a book on paganism? And I don't like them being called 'pagan spell books.' All pagans do not 'cast spells.' Also, there is no one book that all Pagans adhere to unlike the Bible is for Christians.

ETA: Also, handing out 'spell books' doesn't explain Wicca or Paganism. If people don't understand it, it'll just freak them out.

I think the same thing can be said of the Christian Bible. There are many versions, each with its own ardent followers, and frankly some of what is in their book rather freaks me out as well. If someone is ignorant of something I would think that they might be at least open to learning about it but my experience of some of the far right wings of Christianity is that they are fearful, especially of Paganism and Wicca, and find even the most innocent of exploration to be a threat to their beliefs. We experienced that once at our Unitarian Universalist congregation when a new fundamentalist church that had moved in down the street "questioned" our traditional celebration of Halloween/Samhain. 

LoveMyBoyK
by Ruby Member on Nov. 24, 2012 at 7:02 PM
You have yet to own your nasty hateful words toward pagans, you just keep laying blame outside yourself and side stepping your own words.


Quoting jakesmom323:

This is the dictionary........not my words.




Quoting kailu1835:

This entire discussion is completely hillarious to me, especially considering that every single practice your religion has was stolen at some point from paganism.  Yet your definition calls those who follow these practices heathens?  So by that definition, you are a heathen, are you not?  Quit acting like you know diddly squat about Pagans, and spreading false information.  Little or no religion my ass.  Most pagans I know are people I would far rather be around than other christians, and have much more peaceful, God-like spirits.

Quoting jakesmom323:

pa·gan  


/ˈpāgən/


Noun


A person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.


Adjective


Of or relating to such people or beliefs: "a pagan god".


Synonyms


noun.   infidel - gentile - idolater


adjective.   heathenish - gentile - paganish - profane - infidel





Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic"[1]) is a blanket term typically used to refer to religious traditions which are polytheistic or indigenous.





Main Entry: pa·gan


Pronunciation: \ˈpā-gən\


Function: noun


Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix — more at pact


Date: 14th century


1 : heathen 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)


2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person


3 : neo-pagan


— pagan adjective


— pa·gan·ish \-gə-nish\ adjective





These are from 3 different world dictionaries. Not one answered my question nicely about explaining pagan religion, like I originally asked.














Quoting blues_pagan:

I want to know the same thing, how can saying, " this is not the dark ages people. If you really think being a witch is a religion, please explain to me nicely how this is a positive thing for children to be educated on.  " not be considered bashing my religion and the religion of millions of others?  How is that open minded when you say something like that?

What do you actually know about Paganism?

Quoting jakesmom323:

Well, you can teach your kids spells and I'll just be me, and NOT......it's a win win situation.











Quoting Arroree:

Actually you very clearly knocked the Pagan religion, there was nothing "open minded" about what you were saying.





Quoting jakesmom323:

I'm not knocking your religion. I'm very open minded about anything positive and don't press my beliefs on anyone either. My statement was that no religious literature should be given in a public tax paying school. Except for private education. I would say this if this was about being a Muslim, being Jewish, Athiest, Buddist, etc. The spell book being passed out in the school is a little much in my opinion. Being religious is a mature decision that should be respected.














Quoting punky3175:

And what reason would that be? Please - share your obvious VAST knowledge of all the different, non-organized paths of Paganism.











PS. I just gave you a HUGE hint about why there aren't any independent Pagan schools.












Quoting jakesmom323:

Uhhhh, this is not the dark ages people. If you really think being a witch is a religion, please explain to me nicely how this is a positive thing for children to be educated on. Teaching children spells in school is mind boggling to me and to add it's the tax payers public school system. I personally don't believe that any religious content should be given out in the public school system. If you send your school to a Christian based private school like I do, I'm paying for that service. There aren't Pagan independent schools for children for a reason.

















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LizzieAnnesMom
by Bronze Member on Nov. 24, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Sorry but if you allow one, you have to allow the other.

ibelieveinpink
by Member on Nov. 24, 2012 at 9:19 PM
This doesn't surprise me. Paganism, Wicca, and witchcraft are still considered taboo and evil, while Christianity and the Bible, are generally more socially accepted religions.
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celticwych
by Member on Nov. 24, 2012 at 9:32 PM

I would NOT want my child getting anything faith based from anyone including pagan material in the public school she attends.  Nothing like this belongs in public schools as far as Im concerned.  As a parent it is up to me when and what my minor child learns about.  I personally would direct my time and  energy towards working on a answer to this problem instead of trying to "one up" the christian religion.  

Godgaveme4
by Platinum Member on Nov. 25, 2012 at 4:29 PM
She should have been permitted to leave in info in the office for students to pick up if they were interested. That is what they do for the Bibles.

Was she upset that her son chose to go to the office to pick up a Bible? It does not sound like students were forced to take the books.
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