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Stop Using Shooting Crimes to Justify Your Gun Control Agenda - Does it surprise you that gun violence goes down when gun sales go up?

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Stop Using Shooting Crimes to Justify Your Gun Control Agenda

Posted by Jenny Erikson on December 3, 2012 

gun case store casesIn the wake of the tragic murder-suicide that left Kansas City Chiefs’ linebacker Jovan Belcher and the mother of his child dead, Bob Costas decided to interject his politics into NBC’s Sunday Night Football.

During his halftime segment, Costas said:

"In the coming days, Jovan Belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be analyzed. Who knows? ... If Jovan Belcher didn't possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today."

On Saturday, Belcher repeatedly shot Perkins, his girlfriend and the mother of his 3-month-old daughter, before driving to the team’s practice facility and shooting himself in the head.

The next day is not only the wrong time and place to bring up gun control, but the argument itself is wholly illogical.

As one person on Twitter said: “Yes, Bob Costas, guns are the problem. Nicole Brown Simpson would be alive today if OJ hadn't shot her with that knife.” 

The unfortunate fact of the matter is that crazy, murderous people are going to go crazy and murder people, no matter what they have to use as a weapon. Knives, rocks, poison, fire, ropes … I’ve seen CSI; I know there are lots of ways to kill people.

Banning guns will do nothing to stop the killing problem. Not only that, but banning guns has been proven over and over to increase gun-related crimes. In fact, increases in gun sales in a particular area actually decrease the number of gun-related violent crimes.

Imagine that. It’s almost like criminals are more likely to not shoot people that are likely to be armed. This phenomenon is currently on display in Virginia, where the gun crime rate has dropped while firearms sales have reached record highs. Since 2006, the total number of guns purchased in the state has risen by 73 percent, while gun-related offenses have dropped more than 27 percent.

If you’re going to use horrific crimes to advocate for your political positions, at least make sure you get your facts straight. Maybe if Kasandra had been armed, her daughter wouldn't be an orphan today.

Does it surprise you that gun violence goes down when gun sales go up?

by on Dec. 4, 2012 at 1:11 PM
Replies (81-89):
poietes
by Bronze Member on Dec. 7, 2012 at 7:31 PM
Im not even going to read it because I sure its about kids getting into idiots guns. Trust me we have it covered. Our kids learn from birth not to touch anything unless an adult is present. We go over and over and over it. Our gun are also locked up at all times unless in use and ammo is stored separately. We have no need to "have a gun ready" because we do not use it for protection. My children learn gun safety just like they learn knife safety and how to treat chemicals, and to stay away from the tractor or other vehicles when in motion. We dont live in fear. My children are cautious but not fearful.

Quoting lga1965:

 http://www.startribune.com/local/182243551.html?refer=y


Here is something that is all too common....among gun owners who are parents. This is just one reason I think owning a gun is bad news. And yet people say they have had training and that they are careful...but they are not.


Quoting poietes:

We live in a very low crime area and we have lots of guns because we hunt. Yes lets outlaw all guns. Smh.


Quoting lga1965:

Oh for goodness sake.
I think Costas is intelligent. ThaT is the big difference between him and the gunslingers.
the football player had a bunch of head injuries so that explains that.
But why does anyone need a gun unless they live in a high crime area? And even then...you're just asking for trouble. And you'll get it

 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
lga1965
by Ruby Member on Dec. 7, 2012 at 8:50 PM
1 mom liked this

 I don't live in fear either...that's why I don't own a gun.  :-)

I doubt I will ever need one and I don't look at a gun as a hobby either.

Quoting poietes:

Im not even going to read it because I sure its about kids getting into idiots guns. Trust me we have it covered. Our kids learn from birth not to touch anything unless an adult is present. We go over and over and over it. Our gun are also locked up at all times unless in use and ammo is stored separately. We have no need to "have a gun ready" because we do not use it for protection. My children learn gun safety just like they learn knife safety and how to treat chemicals, and to stay away from the tractor or other vehicles when in motion. We dont live in fear. My children are cautious but not fearful.

Quoting lga1965:

 http://www.startribune.com/local/182243551.html?refer=y


Here is something that is all too common....among gun owners who are parents. This is just one reason I think owning a gun is bad news. And yet people say they have had training and that they are careful...but they are not.


Quoting poietes:

We live in a very low crime area and we have lots of guns because we hunt. Yes lets outlaw all guns. Smh.


Quoting lga1965:

Oh for goodness sake.
I think Costas is intelligent. ThaT is the big difference between him and the gunslingers.
the football player had a bunch of head injuries so that explains that.
But why does anyone need a gun unless they live in a high crime area? And even then...you're just asking for trouble. And you'll get it

 

 

poietes
by Bronze Member on Dec. 7, 2012 at 9:33 PM
1 mom liked this
Meh, thats your opinion, hunting is not a "hobby" for us either it is a major food source. I dont buy burger meat, we only use deer burger. If you dont eat meat, fine, we do and our hunting actualky saves us money and is a great learning and bonding experience for my boys.
I dont put down people who dont own guns but I dont appriciate people calling me and my family unintelligent because we can and choose to provide for ourselves by owning a gun.


Quoting lga1965:

 I don't live in fear either...that's why I don't own a gun.  :-)


I doubt I will ever need one and I don't look at a gun as a hobby either.


Quoting poietes:

Im not even going to read it because I sure its about kids getting into idiots guns. Trust me we have it covered. Our kids learn from birth not to touch anything unless an adult is present. We go over and over and over it. Our gun are also locked up at all times unless in use and ammo is stored separately. We have no need to "have a gun ready" because we do not use it for protection. My children learn gun safety just like they learn knife safety and how to treat chemicals, and to stay away from the tractor or other vehicles when in motion. We dont live in fear. My children are cautious but not fearful.


Quoting lga1965:


 http://www.startribune.com/local/182243551.html?refer=y



Here is something that is all too common....among gun owners who are parents. This is just one reason I think owning a gun is bad news. And yet people say they have had training and that they are careful...but they are not.



Quoting poietes:

We live in a very low crime area and we have lots of guns because we hunt. Yes lets outlaw all guns. Smh.



Quoting lga1965:

Oh for goodness sake.
I think Costas is intelligent. ThaT is the big difference between him and the gunslingers.
the football player had a bunch of head injuries so that explains that.
But why does anyone need a gun unless they live in a high crime area? And even then...you're just asking for trouble. And you'll get it


 


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
lga1965
by Ruby Member on Dec. 7, 2012 at 9:37 PM

 Who said you were "unintelligent" ?

Quoting poietes:

Meh, thats your opinion, hunting is not a "hobby" for us either it is a major food source. I dont buy burger meat, we only use deer burger. If you dont eat meat, fine, we do and our hunting actualky saves us money and is a great learning and bonding experience for my boys.
I dont put down people who dont own guns but I dont appriciate people calling me and my family unintelligent because we can and choose to provide for ourselves by owning a gun.


Quoting lga1965:

 I don't live in fear either...that's why I don't own a gun.  :-)


I doubt I will ever need one and I don't look at a gun as a hobby either.


Quoting poietes:

Im not even going to read it because I sure its about kids getting into idiots guns. Trust me we have it covered. Our kids learn from birth not to touch anything unless an adult is present. We go over and over and over it. Our gun are also locked up at all times unless in use and ammo is stored separately. We have no need to "have a gun ready" because we do not use it for protection. My children learn gun safety just like they learn knife safety and how to treat chemicals, and to stay away from the tractor or other vehicles when in motion. We dont live in fear. My children are cautious but not fearful.


Quoting lga1965:


 http://www.startribune.com/local/182243551.html?refer=y



Here is something that is all too common....among gun owners who are parents. This is just one reason I think owning a gun is bad news. And yet people say they have had training and that they are careful...but they are not.



Quoting poietes:

We live in a very low crime area and we have lots of guns because we hunt. Yes lets outlaw all guns. Smh.



Quoting lga1965:

Oh for goodness sake.
I think Costas is intelligent. ThaT is the big difference between him and the gunslingers.
the football player had a bunch of head injuries so that explains that.
But why does anyone need a gun unless they live in a high crime area? And even then...you're just asking for trouble. And you'll get it


 


 

 

poietes
by Bronze Member on Dec. 7, 2012 at 9:43 PM
"I think Costas is intelligent. That is the biggest difference between him and the gun slingers."
So as a "gun slinger" what am I to think? If one is different than intelligent would that not make them unintelligent?


Quoting lga1965:

 Who said you were "unintelligent" ?


Quoting poietes:

Meh, thats your opinion, hunting is not a "hobby" for us either it is a major food source. I dont buy burger meat, we only use deer burger. If you dont eat meat, fine, we do and our hunting actualky saves us money and is a great learning and bonding experience for my boys.
I dont put down people who dont own guns but I dont appriciate people calling me and my family unintelligent because we can and choose to provide for ourselves by owning a gun.



Quoting lga1965:


 I don't live in fear either...that's why I don't own a gun.  :-)



I doubt I will ever need one and I don't look at a gun as a hobby either.



Quoting poietes:

Im not even going to read it because I sure its about kids getting into idiots guns. Trust me we have it covered. Our kids learn from birth not to touch anything unless an adult is present. We go over and over and over it. Our gun are also locked up at all times unless in use and ammo is stored separately. We have no need to "have a gun ready" because we do not use it for protection. My children learn gun safety just like they learn knife safety and how to treat chemicals, and to stay away from the tractor or other vehicles when in motion. We dont live in fear. My children are cautious but not fearful.



Quoting lga1965:



 http://www.startribune.com/local/182243551.html?refer=y




Here is something that is all too common....among gun owners who are parents. This is just one reason I think owning a gun is bad news. And yet people say they have had training and that they are careful...but they are not.




Quoting poietes:

We live in a very low crime area and we have lots of guns because we hunt. Yes lets outlaw all guns. Smh.




Quoting lga1965:

Oh for goodness sake.
I think Costas is intelligent. ThaT is the big difference between him and the gunslingers.
the football player had a bunch of head injuries so that explains that.
But why does anyone need a gun unless they live in a high crime area? And even then...you're just asking for trouble. And you'll get it



 



 


 

Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
Presley77
by Member on Dec. 7, 2012 at 9:55 PM
1 mom liked this

Saying guns are the problem is like saying spoons make people fat. Criminals and violent people WILL STILL GET THEIR GUNS. No question about it. I grew up with guns and a gun professional and I will always support the right  to bear arms and protect ones self. I also advocate for safe gun ownership and safety training for those who own guns. 

lga1965
by Ruby Member on Dec. 7, 2012 at 10:12 PM

 I never called YOU a "gun slinger". You are hunters.

The people who get all macho and dangerous and tough say they have a gun to shoot people who are on their property are "gun slingers".

Quoting poietes:

"I think Costas is intelligent. That is the biggest difference between him and the gun slingers."
So as a "gun slinger" what am I to think? If one is different than intelligent would that not make them unintelligent?


Quoting lga1965:

 Who said you were "unintelligent" ?


Quoting poietes:

Meh, thats your opinion, hunting is not a "hobby" for us either it is a major food source. I dont buy burger meat, we only use deer burger. If you dont eat meat, fine, we do and our hunting actualky saves us money and is a great learning and bonding experience for my boys.
I dont put down people who dont own guns but I dont appriciate people calling me and my family unintelligent because we can and choose to provide for ourselves by owning a gun.



Quoting lga1965:


 I don't live in fear either...that's why I don't own a gun.  :-)



I doubt I will ever need one and I don't look at a gun as a hobby either.



Quoting poietes:

Im not even going to read it because I sure its about kids getting into idiots guns. Trust me we have it covered. Our kids learn from birth not to touch anything unless an adult is present. We go over and over and over it. Our gun are also locked up at all times unless in use and ammo is stored separately. We have no need to "have a gun ready" because we do not use it for protection. My children learn gun safety just like they learn knife safety and how to treat chemicals, and to stay away from the tractor or other vehicles when in motion. We dont live in fear. My children are cautious but not fearful.



Quoting lga1965:



 http://www.startribune.com/local/182243551.html?refer=y




Here is something that is all too common....among gun owners who are parents. This is just one reason I think owning a gun is bad news. And yet people say they have had training and that they are careful...but they are not.




Quoting poietes:

We live in a very low crime area and we have lots of guns because we hunt. Yes lets outlaw all guns. Smh.




Quoting lga1965:

Oh for goodness sake.
I think Costas is intelligent. ThaT is the big difference between him and the gunslingers.
the football player had a bunch of head injuries so that explains that.
But why does anyone need a gun unless they live in a high crime area? And even then...you're just asking for trouble. And you'll get it



 



 


 

 

Farmlady09
by Silver Member on Dec. 7, 2012 at 11:51 PM

That same year (2010) 32,885 people were killed by automobiles ~ both passengers and pedestrians.

There are statistics for just about every possible accidental death possible, as well as various break downs when it comes to violence that results in death.

Vehicles cause far more deaths, and even more permanent disabling injuries than guns, but no one is howling to regulate them, ban them, or do something like install regulators in them so no one can speed (similar to wanting to ban automatic weapons).

Many objects can be used as weapons, but people don't call for 'control' of them, or lobby to get them banned.

That to me brings it down to only two logical possibilities as far as why ~ people either know nothing/care nothing about guns so it doesn't matter to them, or they are terrified of guns. It's usually fairly easy to see which possibility a person falls under. The ones who don't know/don't care also don't really care very much about whether or not other people have guns. The ones who are terrified of guns either say so outright, or resort to calling people who own guns/want to own guns names, label them as stupid, etc.

I'd bet that most of them (those favoring gun control/bans) drive a car or ride in vehicles. I'd bet most of them have a drawer full of knives (and probably a neat little rack on the counter that is also full of them). Many will have children who have baseball bats, husbands (and many wives) with tool chests full of things like hammers, screwdrivers, and saws ~ even nail guns. Every fall/winter the papers are full of stories about people dying because the smoke detector had dead batteries in it, or from carbon monoxide poisoning due to no alarm.

Neither the media nor the general public label these incidents as 'stupid'. They are 'tragic accidents' or murder (with no mention of the word 'weapon').

Dead is dead. No one is more dead from a gunshot than from a crushed skull, punctured arteries, loss of a limb, being hit by a car or wrapped around a tree inside the car.

Dead is just dead ~ the only distinctions being natural causes, disease, accidental, or crime related.

Vehicles, whether driven by impaired drivers or incompetent drivers kill far more people than guns, but everyone has a few ~ and they aren't called rednecks, stupid, paranoid, etc. It's considered impolite to even mention if the person driving just killed someone was illegally in the country ... but talk about wanting to own a gun for any reason, and it becomes open season (pun intended) on gun owners.


 

Quoting kailu1835:

 

In the US, there were 8775 gun crimes in 2010 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state).  Going back to the population number to determine the per capita rate, we see that there was 2.8 (approximate) per 100,000 gun crime rate.  So actually the number I said earlier, of 4 times more likely, has obviously gone up, since it seems to be closer to 17 times more likely to be stabbed in the UK as to be shot in the US.

Let me know if anything was unclear :)

Quoting futureshock:

sources???

Quoting kailu1835:

I posted this before, but here are a few facts:
The UK, which is gun free, is the violent crime capital of the WORLD and that includes 3rd world countries, and Switzerland has the fewest violent crimes per capita, and each and every citizen is issued a fully automatic weapon with training on how to use it.  In the UK, you are 4 times as likely to be stabbed as you are to be shot in the US.  Also, the percentage of legally owned guns being used in a crime is (if I'm remembering this correctly) somewhere around a percent of all legally owned guns.

ETA: Forgot to add that guns do not contribute to violence, a person's own violent tendancies do.  If this guy was so angry that he was willing to shoot his girlfriend, he would have stabbed her, had that been the only weapon available to him.




kailu1835
by Ruby Member on Dec. 8, 2012 at 12:11 AM

Agreed.

Quoting Farmlady09:

That same year (2010) 32,885 people were killed by automobiles ~ both passengers and pedestrians.

There are statistics for just about every possible accidental death possible, as well as various break downs when it comes to violence that results in death.

Vehicles cause far more deaths, and even more permanent disabling injuries than guns, but no one is howling to regulate them, ban them, or do something like install regulators in them so no one can speed (similar to wanting to ban automatic weapons).

Many objects can be used as weapons, but people don't call for 'control' of them, or lobby to get them banned.

That to me brings it down to only two logical possibilities as far as why ~ people either know nothing/care nothing about guns so it doesn't matter to them, or they are terrified of guns. It's usually fairly easy to see which possibility a person falls under. The ones who don't know/don't care also don't really care very much about whether or not other people have guns. The ones who are terrified of guns either say so outright, or resort to calling people who own guns/want to own guns names, label them as stupid, etc.

I'd bet that most of them (those favoring gun control/bans) drive a car or ride in vehicles. I'd bet most of them have a drawer full of knives (and probably a neat little rack on the counter that is also full of them). Many will have children who have baseball bats, husbands (and many wives) with tool chests full of things like hammers, screwdrivers, and saws ~ even nail guns. Every fall/winter the papers are full of stories about people dying because the smoke detector had dead batteries in it, or from carbon monoxide poisoning due to no alarm.

Neither the media nor the general public label these incidents as 'stupid'. They are 'tragic accidents' or murder (with no mention of the word 'weapon').

Dead is dead. No one is more dead from a gunshot than from a crushed skull, punctured arteries, loss of a limb, being hit by a car or wrapped around a tree inside the car.

Dead is just dead ~ the only distinctions being natural causes, disease, accidental, or crime related.

Vehicles, whether driven by impaired drivers or incompetent drivers kill far more people than guns, but everyone has a few ~ and they aren't called rednecks, stupid, paranoid, etc. It's considered impolite to even mention if the person driving just killed someone was illegally in the country ... but talk about wanting to own a gun for any reason, and it becomes open season (pun intended) on gun owners.

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