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Current Events & Hot Topics Current Events & Hot Topics

“Why Is It O.K. To Have a Child with Someone You Know Won’t Stick Around?”

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This question comes from a blogger whom I greatly admire and respect.  However, her audience is black women so I will not post her entire article here, since I am not trying to ask this question of any one race.

For anyone interested, the article can be read here:

http://familyscholars.org/2012/06/22/why-is-it-o-k-to-have-a-child-with-someone-you-know-wont-stick-around/comment-page-1/#comment-130508


by on Dec. 8, 2012 at 9:46 PM
Replies (181-190):
futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:10 PM


Quoting Joqui:

If you want an honest to god answer from me. I feel that women who do this, regardless of race, are doing it to try to KEEP that man. Thinking that maybe by having a child with that man that man will be compelled to change. 

I agree, this does happen frequently. 

I wonder why it happens so frequently, though?  Don't they see this backfiring on other women who have tried it?


futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:13 PM


Quoting jlo1313:

Future, did you ever stop and think about the history of women's rights and correllate these two topics.  Maybe men don't leave any more than they ever have in history, maybe women are sick and tired of putting up with their bullshit.  Maybe women are realizing after 2, 4, 6,, 10 years that this man that stinks up their living room, plays video games, eats and leaves his nasty underwear throughout the house is never going to grow up and because we are making a fairer paycheck, sometimes the only responsible ones in the house, not getting enough satisfaction in areas of our love lives, it is much much easier on women to kick these losers to the curb?

Why don't we focus on the men walking out of relationships, why don't we teach our boys to clean, change diapers and go to work and how to save and be financially responsible.  It is equally as hard as a single woman looking for a grown man who is financially stable as it is a grown man seeking a self-suffiencient, good looking woman who is a freak in the sheets and yet someone he can take home to his mom.  

You keep beating this dead horse with a focus on single mothers and who they are sleeping with.  Simply put, in the beginning of relationships, love is very blind.  It takes 3-5 years to really figure someone out, I have been with SO for 2.5 years and I am getting hounded from everyone when we are going to "tie the knot" to the point of even being judged because it is not a top priority for us, in the meantime, we are both booked to be in weddings for friends for the next 3 years because they are all in a hurry to put a ring on it.


I have stopped to think about these and lots of other things. 

Why don't we focus on the men walking out of relationships, why don't we teach our boys to clean, change diapers and go to work and how to save and be financially responsible.

I agree.

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:18 PM


Quoting motha2daDuchess:

when the outcome is the same it doesnt matter,there is still the possibility of becoming a single parent

Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:

Ending a marriage that produced children isn't the same as having children while not in a committed and strong relationship.



Quoting motha2daDuchess:

and then he might divorce and leave you....there are no guarentees





Quoting lga1965:

 Yeah...its NOT okay to have a child with someone you know won't stick around. Why would you even have sex with an unreliable guy? well, you don't.




Here's what you do: You date a guy, you wait  to get more involved ( have sex) until you know he is a good guy who is reliable. THEN,when you both want to get married... you get married.. You get married and you wait until you can tell the marriage is solid and that he wants a baby. THEN you have a child. Simple. Easy peasy. 




This can apply to everyone---white,black,yellow,red.....get the idea here? Its just a matter of being smart.



Quote:

Differences between never married mothers and divorced mothers

Excerpt from:
Beyond Murphy Brown
We're Ignoring the Fact That All Single Mothers Aren't Alike

But lumping together all single mothers -- even all poor single mothers -- is a misleading rhetorical convenience. As Census and other data show, families headed by divorced mothers are, in general, doing much better than aggregate statistics suggest, and families headed by mothers who have never married are doing much worse.
In 1990, the median family income for never-married mothers with children under the age of 18 was $ 8,337, compared to $ 15,762 for divorced women with kids.
Marital status also explains much of the income disparity between white and black female-headed families. In 1990, the median income of black female-headed families was 32 percent less than white female-headed families, $ 9,590 versus $ 14,028. Controlling for marital status -- whether the mother was ever married -- narrows the gap to about 20 percent.
Never-married mothers are on average 10 years younger than divorced mothers, and the age spread for divorcees is lower than it might otherwise be because it includes many unwed mothers who marry, but only for a short time. When one considers that two-thirds of all out-of-wedlock births in 1988 occurred to young women between the ages of 15 and 24, and that many out-of-wedlock births to older women were second and third births to those who had been unwed teenagers, it is easier to see why their financial situation is so much worse than that of their divorced counterparts.
Never-married mothers also are, on average, much less educated. Only 57 percent of never-married mothers have a high school diploma compared to 82 percent of divorced mothers.
Age, lack of education and other demographic factors combine to give never-married women much poorer job prospects. In 1990, 63 percent of divorced mothers worked full time, and an additional 11 percent worked part time, but only 28 percent of never-married mothers worked full time, and 8 percent part time. And their lack of work experience is exacerbated by the fact that young single mothers have little chance of completing their education or acquiring job skills while having to care for a child.
These demographic differences between unmarried and divorced women translate into dramatically different rates of welfare utilization. In fact, children of never-married mothers are three times more likely to be on welfare than are children of divorced mothers.
Teens have the worst prospects of all. According to a Congressional Budget Office report, 77 percent of unmarried adolescent mothers were welfare recipients within five years of the birth of their first child. Sixty percent of AFDC mothers under the age of 30 had their first child as a teenager.
While divorced women typically use welfare as a temporary measure until they get back on their feet, unmarried mothers are far more likely to become trapped in long-term dependency. Forty percent of never-married mothers will receive AFDC for 10 years or more, compared to 14 percent of divorced mothers.
Levels of child support also vary markedly between the two groups. In 1987, 77 percent of divorced mothers received child support awards, but only 20 percent of never-married mothers did, and the annual payment to the latter group was only about half of the meager $ 3,073 received by divorcees.
This dichotomy between the life prospects of divorced mothers and those of unwed mothers is no reason to bash unwed mothers, but neither can it be ignored. Nor is this to say that post-divorce poverty is not a serious problem; it is. But much more than a divorce, an out-of-wedlock birth to a young mother seems to be a direct path to long-term poverty.
[These differences are why even sharp critics of welfare sense a lesser "moral hazard" when assistance is given to divorced mothers. Divorce and its aftermath can be deeply traumatic, especially if there are children. And there is no doubt that many people enter and exit marriage for the wrong reasons. Nevertheless, it is one thing when two adults terminate a marriage that has not worked out, and quite another when two teenagers have a baby as a result of a casual union -- with the only prospect being a career of welfare dependency.
A clearer understanding of the divergent values that underlie each behavior could lead to a major restructuring of welfare programs. For divorced mothers, welfare could be transformed into a form of social insurance, and for unwed teen mothers into a tool for guiding constructive changes in their behavior.
http://www.welfareacademy.org/pubs/teensex/beyond-0992.shtml


luckystars2012
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:20 PM
1 mom liked this
But again, marriage does not guarantee that a father will stick around. Marriages are failing at an astronomical rate.




Quoting futureshock:


Quoting luckystars2012:

With the rate that marriages fail, it's pretty safe to say that marriage does not guarantee that a guy will stick around.



I've been in a solid committed relationship for over three years, and we are TTC. But no, I am not married and have no plans to be. I simply do not feel that marriage is necessary, and see no true benefit from it.



However I am also financially independent, with my own six figure income, retirement, and health insurance, so IF my relationship ended I could easily maintain my lifestyle without falling back on welfare or my children suffering.





Quoting futureshock:

Here is an excerpt:

[T]he real question shouldn’t be why [people don't]

value marriage, but why the some folks think it’s

okay to make a child without ensuring that the other parent stick

around.



Children suffer from more than just lack of money, many suffer from lack of a committed and decent father.  I'm not saying anything about your case specifically, just in general I am saying that the problems faced by many children born out of wedlock come from factors surrounding absent fathers, not just lack of money.


Posted on the NEW CafeMom Mobile
futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:22 PM


Quoting cueballsmom:

Alright now, that wasn't even my point. However, why didn't they find out the requirements before buying that home? Then they would have been approved. As far as cleaning up others messes, are you saying that no battered women shelters should exist? or maybe those homes for mentally challanged adults? We shouldn't have to pick up the slack when their parent dies, just because they should have aborted....and the list shoots into outer space from there.

Just because a parent is single does not mean they need welfare. Like I said before, far more couples are on welfare, where is your defence on cleaning up or picking up the slack for them?


Quoting kailu1835:

I suppose you could say it's selfishness, but it is also nobody's responsibility to clean up after other people's mistakes.  Some people are willing and happy to, others are not.  Many people are barred from adopting for stupid reasons.  It's extremely difficult to adopt in this country, and there are numerous hoops to jump through.  I have a friend who was dead set on adopting when she grew up.  She married a man who was happy to adopt, and they started the process.  Because they didn't have enough square footage in their home, they failed their home study.  They never had a chance.  They ended up planning for and having their own children, after 5 years of trying to be approved to adopt, or even foster.  They were not selfish.

Quoting cueballsmom:

Quoting kailu1835:


No. how can you say that, when tons of women plan so very carefully for their kids? Single or not, the woes of being a parent is screwing up. so, instinct or not, being reasoning creatures, it is pure selfishness to create a new life when so many are starving and dying.



Just because a parent is single does not mean they need welfare. Like I said before, far more couples are on welfare, where is your defence on cleaning up or picking up the slack for them?

Married couples?  Do you have a source for this?

90% of welfare parents are single mothers
http://www.utexas.edu/depts/ic2/et/learner/general.html

90% of welfare recipients are single mothers. 
Jason DeParle, “Raising Kevion”, New York Times, Aug. 22, 2004
Prepared by Z. Fareen Parvez, UC Berkeley
Distributed by the Sociologists for Women in Society
Women, Poverty and Welfare Reform

http://www.socwomen.org/socactivism/factwelfare.pdf

About 90 percent of the TANF heads of households are single mothers.
http://womensenews.org/story/economyeconomic-policy/100319/at-welfare-hearings-calls-help-single-mothers

90% of welfare parents are single mothers

10% married

36% divorced/widowed/separated

54% never married

http://www.utexas.edu/depts/ic2/et/learner/general.html

Over 90 percent of welfare parents are single mothers.—U.S. Department of Labor, Employment and Training Administration

http://salt.claretianpubs.org/stats/welref/profile.html

Two percent of total welfare recipients are married couples; Thirty-six percent are divorced, widowed, or separated persons; Fifty-four percent were never married.—U.S. Department of Labor, Employment and Training Administration
http://salt.claretianpubs.org/stats/welref/profile.html

A General Profile of the Welfare Population – Urban Institute


90% of welfare parents are single mothers
10% married
36% divorced/widowed/separated
54% never married


Most welfare mothers are in their 20s and 30s
6% under 20 years of age
24% 20-24 years of age
22% 25-29 years of age
35% 30-39 years of age
13% 40 years of age or older


Welfare mothers are distributed among the major ethnic groups
37% White
36% African-American
20% Hispanic
6% Other


Academic levels of welfare recipients cover the full range of educational attainment
16% some college
42% completed high school
42% less than high school

http://www.utexas.edu/depts/ic2/et/learner/general.html



jlo1313
by Silver Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:25 PM
1 mom liked this


Quoting futureshock:


Quoting jlo1313:

Future, did you ever stop and think about the history of women's rights and correllate these two topics.  Maybe men don't leave any more than they ever have in history, maybe women are sick and tired of putting up with their bullshit.  Maybe women are realizing after 2, 4, 6,, 10 years that this man that stinks up their living room, plays video games, eats and leaves his nasty underwear throughout the house is never going to grow up and because we are making a fairer paycheck, sometimes the only responsible ones in the house, not getting enough satisfaction in areas of our love lives, it is much much easier on women to kick these losers to the curb?

Why don't we focus on the men walking out of relationships, why don't we teach our boys to clean, change diapers and go to work and how to save and be financially responsible.  It is equally as hard as a single woman looking for a grown man who is financially stable as it is a grown man seeking a self-suffiencient, good looking woman who is a freak in the sheets and yet someone he can take home to his mom.  

You keep beating this dead horse with a focus on single mothers and who they are sleeping with.  Simply put, in the beginning of relationships, love is very blind.  It takes 3-5 years to really figure someone out, I have been with SO for 2.5 years and I am getting hounded from everyone when we are going to "tie the knot" to the point of even being judged because it is not a top priority for us, in the meantime, we are both booked to be in weddings for friends for the next 3 years because they are all in a hurry to put a ring on it.


I have stopped to think about these and lots of other things. 

Why don't we focus on the men walking out of relationships, why don't we teach our boys to clean, change diapers and go to work and how to save and be financially responsible.

I agree.

Well thank you...

May I suggest you make a post about shaming the baby-daddys that walk away for a change of tone?  I think there are probably many more people that would love to weigh in on that topic rather than feel attacked by another single mom post.


lga1965
by on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:36 PM
I think it's more likely that women are leaving marriages more often. Wht does everyone assume its always men? And I am pretty sure most women go into marriage expecting to stay married...until the guy proves to be a jerk or cheats. And nowadays women won't put up with men who are jerks. But its still not a reason for everyone to give up on marriage. Its still better to be married before you have kids....legally and morally. Then too ....it sets a good example of stability and commitment.

Quoting luckystars2012:

But again, marriage does not guarantee that a father will stick around. Marriages are failing at an astronomical rate.








Quoting futureshock:


Quoting luckystars2012:

With the rate that marriages fail, it's pretty safe to say that marriage does not guarantee that a guy will stick around.





I've been in a solid committed relationship for over three years, and we are TTC. But no, I am not married and have no plans to be. I simply do not feel that marriage is necessary, and see no true benefit from it.





However I am also financially independent, with my own six figure income, retirement, and health insurance, so IF my relationship ended I could easily maintain my lifestyle without falling back on welfare or my children suffering.








Quoting futureshock:

Here is an excerpt:

[T]he real question shouldn’t be why [people don't]


value marriage, but why the some folks think it’s


okay to make a child without ensuring that the other parent stick


around.




Children suffer from more than just lack of money, many suffer from lack of a committed and decent father.  I'm not saying anything about your case specifically, just in general I am saying that the problems faced by many children born out of wedlock come from factors surrounding absent fathers, not just lack of money.


Posted on CafeMom Mobile
futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:51 PM


Quoting cueballsmom:

sooo, how does a person get social security disability, despite never having worked? Sure, you have to have enough "points" to qualify, but it is not a "savings account". It works the same as welfare. Any body who was SMART won't need SS, because they would have had a retirement plan.





You and I are not paying into a
savings plan. Neither did your great aunt. We are paying in what is
being given to her now. That is how it works. You are "entitled" to
social security the same way as you are "entitled" to any other
welfare. Those that work are paying for those that don't.

This is incorrect.  If you do not work you do not get social security unless you were married and your spouse worked.  When you do get social security everyone gets a different amount, because everyone gets an amount based upon what they paid in.

They don't.  They get SSI instead. 

Social Security's Supplemental Security Income (SSI) Program

www.ssa.gov/pgm/ssi.htm - Cached - Similar

Oct 9, 2012 ... The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled
adults and children who have limited income and resources.

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 12:54 PM


Quoting SunshneDaydream:

That is just plain incorrect.  I am very publicly pro-choice, but if I ever had an abortion, I would not sing it from the rooftops.  I would not even tell my parents.  I would probably only share it with my bestest best friend and my husband.  It is a terrible thing to do, and if there's an option to just be a single parent instead, most will choose to do that, because abortion is so awful. 

Quoting Billiejeens:

Quoting SunshneDaydream:





Sadly, no.




You feel this way because that is how you have been conditioned to feel.  Many people feel differently.

Read something I wrote a while ago to see what I mean, if you want:

Life Only Begins At Conception If You Want To Believe It Does

futureshock
by Ruby Member on Dec. 10, 2012 at 1:04 PM


Quoting Meadowchik:

 

Quoting stacymomof2:

Honestly I think you are too obsessed with this issue.  There is no one answer, no ultimate thing that can be said that would change things to be more fitting with your goal.

 It's a good topic.  One could spend a lifetime studying it and make a career out of it, so it is worth talking about. 

Thank-you.  Lots of people are studying it because it is affecting a large amount of people.

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